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Not really looking for an argue Tom but I'll take a hug from you if it's from behind again.
I just fail to understand Vicky's issue.
What does it matter how much effort folk put in? Plenty folk have a gym membership and never break sweat, go swimming and never get their hair wet etc. and the worlds now full of idiots who'll tell you exactly how many steps their phone says they've done today even though it's exactly the same mundane routine they've done for years. I just don't see why folk care if others put in as much effort as they do. Unless you're actually racing/competing It's daft. That Lance chap put more effort into his cycling than anyone and look where that got him 😉
I just don’t see why folk care if others put in as much effort as they do
Some people are rigorous and some are vigorous.
And as I explained earlier, depending on how you use it can actually make you stronger than a non-Eeb
That's a bit like saying that diet soft drinks can help you lose weight. Yeah they can if you don't drink the full sugar soda! There is nothing about the diet soda that makes you lose weight. Similarly an e-bike can help you get fitter, if you ride it harder than a non-e-bike, in other words nothing about the e-bike per se is advantageous for helping fitness.
That’s not true. If you know anything about proper training you’ll know that it’s important to have periodised training with different intensities at different times. That kind of training is possible solo on a road bike with a power meter but it’s very difficult to do on a MTB in hilly terrain - add in riding with a group and it’s impossible. With an Ebike you can vary the assistance to suit the intensity you should be working at for your training programme.
I realise this is a non-Ebike example but I’ve been riding simple 1x10 with 11-36 cassettes for years. Earlier this year I put 1x12 with a 10-50 cassette on one of my bikes. Have the easier gears made me work less hard, or have they allowed me to spin quicker but softer when my muscles are tired, allowing me to get my heart rate higher? And have I chosen to ride up steeper technical singletrack (which people normally only ride down) rather than taking the easier fire road because it’s now possible without complete failure. The answer is yes to both.
Beyond ironic..my phone just auto corrected ebike to rebuke...
As someone who is pretty ambivalent to the whole e bike vs purely human powered bike argument I do have an observation.
The e bike proponents are now actually much louder/shouty and vocal than the ones that dislike them.
There is a bit of an irony to that, as viewed from an outside the argument perspective.....
No Rydster. It's nothing like your stupid soft drink analogy at all. What I was talking about was upperbody/core strength gains from descending more during a ride of the same duration while controlling the extra weight of the Ebike.
Chief is of course correct though. If following a specific training program it is far far easier to go for an actual off-road emtb ride and stay in a particular training zone than it ever could be on any ordinary non-assisted mtb.
How ****ing fit do you have to be to ride a gravel bike along canal paths anyway FFS?
It's not really an argument anymore when you're replying to someone this stupid popscoop. More caring for the mentally challenged.
It’s not really an argument anymore when you’re replying to someone this stupid popscoop. More caring for the mentally challenged.
Geex, your just adding to the whole shouty side of the argument. Not to mention being overly condescending to someone that just happens to share a current view?
Would he still be stupid if his view aligned with yours?
The level of stupid we're dealing with here has nothing to do with our misalignment of views.
What about band assisted pull ups? Use an e bike until your fit and strong enough to ride properly without assistance??
Thread's officially gone full circle from folk who're too weak to jump an assisted bike despite never having ridden one to folk who have and are now too weak to ride a non assisted bike.
Eebs... The gift that just keep giving
Wonder how good next weeks anti Eeb thread will be.
Mmmm... Pork pies!
@ 0:15 "Sprectral on... only sort of thing you can tackel this terrain on"..... you rode all the way? bollocks did you.
@ 2:10 "this is mountain biking" said the main on a bike.... with a motor...
what i don't get is that these sort of rides are being sold as though they are only possible with an ebike.
i've reached the top of snowdon in 1:35 from Llanberis on my old DB Alpine. it's not exctly extreme and there hve been many folks that have gone before and many folks since.
that high alps ride, Italy to France... i've ridden my bike in that area with some friends from Liguria. it's not as if it is that hard.
i used to guide transalp from Bvaria to the Italian lakes through similar terrain. it's not the domain of ebikes.
This thread is cracker.
but that’s because most of the people I’ve seen on e-MTBs have breezed past chatting while I’ve been killing myself on a steep climb
surely if the bike is making you fit, you'd be cruising up that steep climb?
That’s not true. If you know anything about proper training you’ll know that it’s important to have periodised training with different intensities at different times
Which you absolutely don't need an e-bike for.
You're argument is analogous to weight training with a spotter doing half the work for you, as if this helps because training at your one rep max all the time isn't optimal! Just take half the weight off the bar instead!
I would concede that being able to keep up with your friends on a group ride is somewhat justifiable but also comes across as a thin and tenuous excuse. If you are using fast group rides for base training than maybe you are doing it wrong? And what happens when inevitably everyone is on an e-bike? Do you all take the batteries out?
How **** fit do you have to be to ride a gravel bike along canal paths anyway FFS?
That's a bit uncalled for don't you think? You don't know anything about my injury or illness history, and anyway 30 miles a day commuting won't make you slow! 🙂
The posters who become ''shouty' and attack others comments when writing about why they have a problem with e-bikes, are they spoof and all in jest?
People can't really be upset about someone riding an e-bike can they? What harm is it doing anyone else?
A bloke on a ebike almost, but didn’t quite overtake me on a technical climb last night but posted a better time on regular Strava, I’m now gong to spend the next 2 days ranting to my wife, work colleagues, children, dog and neighbours dog about how I feel cheated and emasculated. Damned these ebikes.
still awaiting evidence of geexs mad steeze.
ps I'm so close to buying an ebike....get a base model levo 2019 or wait for the vitus to come into stock.
with all the weight down low creating the stability for you, best to think of geometry a little differently? ie not as much length required to get to the same level of stability?
in other words nothing about the e-bike per se is advantageous for helping fitness.
I disagree. Form a personal perspective, I have never ridden more than I do now (with an ebike added to my options)
I never commuted by bike more than “not very often” because of various reasons, mostly that I tend to carry too much kit to work/ school drop off on the way/ lack of fitness/ lack of time, etc etc.
An e-cargo bike has changed that, I ride every day, carry my kit, drop off jnr on the way, and get 100+ extra miles a week. Having an ebike makes it faster/easier etc, and I’ve missed 2 days of commuting since July.
I am way fitter and lighter as a result, and enjoy normal riding even more than I did before, and as a result I do more of that too.
I am not saying it would be “impossible” for me to do my commute every day on a non ebike, but I’m 47 years old and I’ve never done it yet 👍
Like Neal, I’ve done loads more riding since getting mine, particularly in the Alps exploring mountains without ski lifts.
A few weeks ago I did around 4500ft of climbing and around 18miles in 2 hours. That wouldn’t have been possible on my Capra. I was nearly puking with the effort at some points it was so steep.
So yes, my ebike is definitely helping to make me fitter and stronger.
Oi!
You lot on your e-bikes stop having fun! Don't you know riding bikes is a serious matter. Masochistics only. Haven't you read the rule book! 😉
I hope you’re riding a single speed, fixed gear rigid with solid tyres then.
I am (well high PSI 25c tyres rather than solid) Also don't have brakes so 100% purity for me.
That means I must be in a valid position to judge ebike riders. Unfortunately I think they are fine and have no problems with them. In fact I want more of them as the 2 I have encountered turned out to be very good pace bikes.
That’s a bit uncalled for don’t you think?
If you try and pick faults with people you have to expect the same back.
still awaiting evidence of geexs mad steeze.
He's actually a pretty handy rider.
what i don’t get is that these sort of rides are being sold as though they are only possible with an ebike.
i’ve reached the top of snowdon in 1:35 from Llanberis on my old DB Alpine. it’s not exctly extreme and there hve been many folks that have gone before and many folks since.
that high alps ride, Italy to France… i’ve ridden my bike in that area with some friends from Liguria. it’s not as if it is that hard.
of course it's possible, but ebikes are being marketed for the fat and lazy, this much we know!
of course it’s possible, but ebikes are being marketed for the fat and lazy, this much we know!
Yeah but a battery makes you fitter using power of unicorn farts.
that’s a bit uncalled for don’t you think? You don’t know anything about my injury or illness
Oh, the irony....
still awaiting evidence of geexs mad steeze.
ps I’m so close to buying an ebike….get a base model levo 2019 or wait for the vitus to come into stock.
with all the weight down low creating the stability for you, best to think of geometry a little differently? ie not as much length required to get to the same level of stability?
Come riding with me dean (invite's open anytime). I don't think you'd be disappointed.
You're an endurbro, yeah? If so wait a few weeks for the 2019 E-Sommet. It has far better derp geometry than the Levo and is cheaper with way way higher spec (You won't need to change/upgrade a thing except maybe grips and tyres to suit), It's sub 65deg, -25mm BB and looong in the large n XL if that's your bag.It's also mad stabilz. 100% moar stabilz than any other bike I has. and that's including 2 DH bikes and another 170mm Enduro. It holds mad momnetum and boosts out of compressions, rollers, berms n ruts like nothing else and I mean when pumped/preloaded, not pedalled (before our resident ill canalpathcommuting fitness facist starts again)
Not entirely sure why you'd think geometry has to be re-thought though. I prefer shorter (reach, CS & WB) with all my bikes from riding DH, 4X, DJ bikes half my life and massively prefer pop, playfulness and maneuverability over stability, I'm 5'11" My Small E-Somm is longer in wheelbase/reach than any other bike I have (The others are mediums) and I still manage to ride it rearwheel happy and get the thing sideways a lot. No one who's ridden it that I haven't previously told it's a small has ever thought it was short. I'm definitely not about the mad stabilz, infact I like a bit of sketch to liven things up. All my non-Eebz and ride considerably shorter reach bikes than is currently fashionable for a middle aged man of my height. You'll probably "get" this from your BMX days. And I don't ever really ride any bike sat down like a pie. My saddles are all still angled nose up like a DJ bike's. They're toys and as such should be played with not thought of as ****ing sporting/fitness gear Urrgghhhh! #LipzIS4whipz n that.
Peace awt bruvva
Ps. Chill with the digs. it just comes across as snide.
I don't know if this was the catalyst but I'm pretty set on getting an e-bike as soon as funds allow. The Turbo Levo Comp alloy is looking the obvious choice as the geometry is pretty much a 29er version of my Spitfire which I really like and I'd rather have support from my LBS in case of issues, what with it being so much more complicated than my e-free bikes. Only concern is the Revelation not being burly enough at 150mm 29er length - I'd probably upgrade the damper to turn it into a Pike but there's part of me thinking a Lyrik or 36 would be better. Then again I don't have a problem with the 160mm 27.5 Pike on my Spitfire...
Only concern is the Revelation not being burly enough at 150mm 29er length
Then again I don’t have a problem with the 160mm 27.5 Pike on my Spitfire…
Sounds like you're doing the quite frankly ridiculous thing of believing an Ebike somehow needs a stiffer, more burly fork than the rider would ever need on a non E bike.
Think of the bike as the same as your spitfire but with a 17lb heavier downtube and BB shell. Or to put it another way You after a very indulgent festive period and your winter gear. You're seriously unlikely to be doing anything on it you didn't on your Pike.
my e-free bikes.
They are called bikes 😀
this thread has truly restored my faith in the self importance of humans beings (term used loosely).
I have had a couple of goes on eebs now and have been riding mtbbs for 20 years or so and being still relatively fit I cant wait to get one to add another dimension to enjoying two wheels in the dirt along with my other bikes if I can still pedal them
We are running a couple of Turbo Levo's. One with Pikes and one with Revelations. We bought a set of Pikes thinking that the Revelations would flex. The Pikes are still in the box.
Tracey, the voice of reason, as ever. 😊
Not really. Put Crossclimates on the Picasso for the winter. Bought new Thule top of the range four bike rack. Get taken back in hospital with an infection. Come out of hospital and he's swapped the Picasso for a Tourneo Custom. The Pikes are at the back of the garage at the side of the bike rack.
“Sounds like you’re doing the quite frankly ridiculous thing of believing an Ebike somehow needs a stiffer, more burly fork than the rider would ever need on a non E bike.”
Well, it’s more that I’m heavier than I used to be, the bike itself is heavier and even at 150mm travel the total contact patch to crown length is longer than on the Spitfire due to the bigger wheels so there’s more leverage on the fork. And I’ve never put something burlier on a bike and regretted it - admittedly I restarted MTBing on a lightweight XC hardtail and have never owned a freeride or DH bike, so I started at one extreme.
The Revelations on the new Turbo Levo’s won’t flex any more than a Pike - they’re the exact same fork but with a cheaper damper. Upgrade the damper and put new stickers on and it’s a Pike.
I've bent 2 Pike CSUs One backwards, the other side ways, twisted the upper legs on another and broken the lowers on another. All were lowered to 100-110mm and on hardtails. I'm running Rebas just now on my current hardtail despite bending 2 sets of those in the past too. They're way less stiff than a Pike but I trust them because I'm not doing quite so consequential stuff on hardtails at the moment. (and have a new Pike and shorter air shaft to fit when I do again).
If you've you bent/broken any forks in the past you'll know yourself already whether you 'really' need to go to a stiffer chassis like a Yari/Lyrik (or just reign it in a bit). The bike won't be putting any more stress through a Pike/Yari until you smash it into a tree, case a decent sized jump or just have an unlucky off.
FWIW I do have Lyriks on my Enduro bike and my Ebike (which is very much an Enduro bike too) and they are very nice but in all honesty I haven't actually done anything on either of those 170mm bikes I haven't ridden on a 100mm hardtail.
I had a quick spin on a Levo on Friday - took it for a lap of the local park. Well that was fun! When I was standing and stomping my legs overwhelmed the motor assistance but as soon as I backed off it was like I had the world’s most convenient tailwind. Fit was perfect (no surprise as bar the higher stack and longer chainstays its near identical to my Spitfire - and I run quite a few spacers and high rise bars on that).
Liked the handling a lot - it feels like a big stable bike but in a good way - was fine off some urban drops, popping off kickers and so on. The Sektor on the bass model was rather squishy and noodly - big price jump through the models to get a better fork and dropper post so it feels logical to get the least expensive version and add the forks, dropper and brakes of my choice. Noticed the brakes got used a lot more than on my normal bikes so I’d want something powerful.
Current leaning is a 160mm Lyrik up front with shorter offset, BikeYoke dropper (185 if there’s enough space in the seat tube) and some Hope V4s. Dare I start a thread about it, or will it cause a ruckus?
Start a thread. Ebike upgrades ?.
Already done the wheels and tyres on mine
[img] 
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start a new thread, this one just the standard e-bike troll circle jerk now.
And you reckon a new one won’t be ? I admire your faith 🙂
Dare I start a thread about it, or will it cause a ruckus?
Yeah we have a forum for non-bike stuff. 😀
I should have known this thread would be such a big-hitter magnet!
Is geex GW, or just under his tutelage?
The thing I most noticed about my quick blast on the Levo was that I could ride like I want to, rather than having to hold back in the name of enduring for hours. At my fastest I’m neither subtle nor efficient and having that backup for when my legs run out of steam felt very appealing - pump, pedal, hop, jump and get as aggro as I can downhill, reach the bottom dying and have some help to get back up the hill. I’ll see what a longer testride proves.
roverpig
And you reckon a new one won’t be ? I admire your faith
Nah, but another e-bike thread always winds them up again, and they can't help but exposing there drivel, so the more threads the better. TBH this place is coming around to them, they are the future after all ;D
We should confine all of the haters to the “what gravel bike and/or bib tights” threads.
A heavy frame with a low CofG, long travel, slack angles and big sticky tyres has always been a pretty good recipe for a bike that is fun to ride downhill (depending on your preferred riding style of course), but not a good recipe for riding back up again. So, just add a bit of motor assist for the climbs: job done.
The logic of Ebikes is pretty clear and I’ve never really understood all the froth. Of course, like any design, you’ve got downsides too; more expensive, complicated, heavier (if you have to lift it for any reason), less reliable, worries over range etc. But it’s a trade-off that will suit some people and not others.
It’s the propaganda about standard bikes being old fashioned and claims that we’ll all be riding them in a few years that I find mildly annoying (or maybe just amusing), but to be fair, the rants from the anti-Ebike mob are just as irrational.
Anyway, if it suits you then crack-on and enjoy. The threads are quite entertaining if nothing else.
Rode one in the mud and the gloop that is the South Downs for the first time today; got 54 miles done and only needed the e part doing laps of Old Winnie hill.
It was a riot to ride for sure. These things have a place on the trails these days as you can't put the genie back in the bottle so go out there and give one a go - I liked it, but I'm not ready to hang up my Tallboy just yet.
I sold up my enduro bike a few years ago as I didn’t have time for the faff that’s involved in mountain biking and as much as I enjoyed the fast bits, you spend a massive amount of time grinding away for that bit of speed to make it all worth it.
I’m now in the mind set I want to start mountain biking again next year. I however want to do it purely for fun, and after having a blast on an e bike it blew me away how quick and fun it was. I could go for a blast round degla, enjoy the ups and downs and be home before lunch with plenty of energy to enjoy the rest of the day.
I run before work every morning, ride a road bike and eat healthily so mountain biking doesn’t need to tick the exercise box for me.
Im certain in the next 5 to 10 years they will replace the majority of pedal bikes
Yeah we have a forum for non-bike stuff.
As this is mainly an MTB forum maybe you should stick to that.
I liked it, but I’m not ready to hang up my Tallboy just yet.
First off it kind of puts the fitness nazis into place that you've posted on this thread.*
Second point everyone that I know that's bought an ebike still rides there other bikes too.
* look up what this poster has ridden if you don't know.
Don't wind up him up
I dunno why these people don't get a scrambler or ride a roller coaster if they want 'fun' without having to break a sweat.
I never knew that so many MTB'ers found pedaling a drag.
Who are these people,
Edited as I can't really be bothered to talk to a commuter about MTBing.
I must apologise for not being able to commute to work or ride to the supermarket over a gnarly mountain.
I don't know where you get this misconception from...
without having to break a sweat
...but it's hilarious. The only time I'm not blowing out of my arse at the top of a climb is if I'm guiding, or being guided by, folks on non-assist bikes. The rest of the time I'm pushing myself hard. I now ride more often, for longer than I ever did on my clockwork bike and I'm having fun. Actual fun. You should get down off your high horse and try having fun yourself. You never know, you might enjoy it.
The Sektor on the bass model was rather squishy and noodly –
You of all people should know that's down to not running a stiff enough spring rate and the basic damping meaning you can't have that marshmallow sag point followed by ramp up so many air token slaves love to fret about. a Sektor is a plenty stiff enough chassis to get the job done.
Noticed the brakes got used a lot more than on my normal bikes
They actually don't. Yes your braking point changes minisculely but Eebs have moar grip so it evens out. I only changed my Emtb's rear pads after over 1200miles of mainly DH/Enduro descents Eshuttled (for want of a better term). That's thousands and thousands of feet of technical, fast and very steep descending. and the wear rate is actually less than my 17lb lighter DH bikes. It's still on the OEM front pads with plenty life in them
so I’d want something powerful.
Fair enough. that's more do do with your preference than any actual need though. Most Eebs come with sensibly powerful enough brakes. Level Ts will stop it just fine but it's an easy upgrade to an RE caliper for awesome levels (see what I did there?) of stopping power
Current leaning is a 160mm Lyrik up front
Again fair enough. but again it's not absolutely required.
with shorter offset,
This is you just being you (well.. that plus #fashion) in reality from what you've said about your actual riding it's going to make FK all difference.
Dare I start a thread about it, or will it cause a ruckus?
Dare? Please do. Folk neeed to get a grip. it's just a bike. And a hell of a lot more interesting and fun than all the gravel pish most bike threads here seem to be about.
The only time I’m not blowing out of my arse at the top of a climb is if I’m guiding, or being guided by, folks on non-assist bikes. The rest of the time I’m pushing myself hard. I now ride more often, for longer than I ever did on my clockwork bike and I’m having fun. Actual fun. You should get down off you high horse and try having fun yourself. You never know, you might enjoy it.
Yes but do you ride up and down the canal on a gravel bike?
Unless you do you have no right to post about actually riding an MTB up and down steep stuff.😜
rydflat.
You actually looked what background rob comes from yet?
You actually looked what background rob comes from yet?
Well you have some e-bikers saying they like them 'cos they are fun and they don't get fatigued, then others claim they ride them like Lance up Mont Ventoux and the e-bike makes them fitter than normal (by a magic mechanism never explained)
So that's why I'm a bit confused. 😀
As someone who sometimes rides to work with a tail wind and sometimes with a head wind, it's very hard to make yourself work as hard with the tail wind, that's just human nature? Or maybe I don't have the iron discipline e-biking needs?
So you've not looked what rob has done then...
Stick to riding up and down the cut and thinking you're the awsumz because you don't like ebikes...
What's his background got to do with anything? An appeal to authority?
Still not found out then.
Should be right up your fitness nazi street...
Except rob despite his fitness levels doesn't seem to be a fitness nazi.
Tell us all again what MTB you ride?
You seem to taking this all very personally?
So you've still not taken the time to find out.
I'll leave it at that.
Rob could be extremely fit but it would be in spite of the e-bike.
Here are objections to seeing them on trails.
1) Splits MTB community into two groups: fast and slow. This could cause resentment as e-bikers are held up by slower non-e-bike riders on single track. Possibly it forces everyone to buy a more costly and less environmentally friendly (e-)bike to keep up with everyone else.
2) Heavier, faster, further = more wear to trails.
3) Totally unnecessary environmental downsides involved in making and charging the batteries.
4) Fire risk both at home when stored and during summer when out riding. How many e-bike riders carry a fire extinguisher with them? We saw what happened this summer with the fires on the moors.
So you've still not found out what he's done or told us what MTB you ride...
Just copied and pasted some bullshit.🤡
That's irrelevant. Arguments stand alone. Stop attacking the person.
“4) Fire risk both at home when stored and during summer when out riding. How many e-bike riders carry a fire extinguisher with them? We saw what happened this summer with the fires on the moors.”
I have no words...
But looking at your past posts, you’ve been away from MTBing a decade, and now you’re just biking alongside canals. You have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what it’s like to ride steep trails with serious ascent. I could ride all day long on flat trails, regardless of what other exercise I was doing in my life. Silly, silly, silly.
And Rob Colliver who posted earlier has ridden the Tour Divide (Canada to Mexico solo unsupported) and is the only person to have ridden the South Downs Double Double - that’s 400 miles off-road with near constant climbing and descending, 48’000 in total, that he did in 55 hours.
Come back when you actually do some real mountain biking.
I’ve been on quite a few group rides with someone in the group on an Ebike - they were never getting frustrated by a normal bike slowing them down, quite the opposite, we on our normal bikes were waiting for them! But if you ride in groups there’s always a mix of riding speed both up and downhill and how well that works depends on the group, not the bikes.
Stop attacking the person
And Rob Colliver who posted earlier has ridden the Tour Divide (Canada to Mexico solo unsupported) and is the only person to have ridden the South Downs Double Double – that’s 400 miles off-road with near constant climbing and descending, 48’000 in total, that he did in 55 hours.
What on earth does that have to do with the fire risks of lithium-ion batteries or the point I made about splitting the MTB community?
But if you ride in groups there’s always a mix of riding speed both up and downhill and how well that works depends on the group, not the bikes.
That's true but it's random or within a tolerable range. E-bikes change that systematically though.
“What on earth does that have to do with the fire risks of lithium-ion batteries or the point I made about splitting the MTB community?”
Have you heard of night-riding? It’s been rather popular with us keen MTBers for a decade or two. Our lights are not powered by magic.
If you went MTBing you’d find the community is already split but that it doesn’t matter. XC is a completely different sport to DH. And we don’t care, it’s fine!
Holy ****, we've got a live one here! 🤣🤣🤣
“That’s true but it’s random or within a tolerable range. E-bikes change that systematically though.”
It’s not random and if you ride with as many people as I have over the years you’d know how incredibly fast some are and how amazingly slow others are. As someone in the middle I’ve ridden with both ends of the spectrum. You’ll learn that if you get out and go MTBing.
the point I made about splitting the MTB community?
What have you got to do with the MTB community?
Tell us again what MTB's you own or ride?
Tell us how many MTB trails you build or help to maintain?
Tell us again how only unfit fat people like Ebikes?
What on earth does that have to do with the fire risks of lithium-ion batteries
hahahaha. Oh ffs.
This thread (or at least this individual poster) has gone full on batshitmental.
😂😂😂
That’s true but it’s random or within a tolerable range. E-bikes change that systematically though.
Tell us again how you know this as you don't own an MTB or go on any MTB rides?
Really good Sunday night entertainment do go on.
could being caught on a "chipped" ebike on the road result in points on your driving license ?
Well I seem to have stirred the hornets nest 😀