E-bike question realistic bike life

It becomes redundant when you can no longer buy the replacement parts it needs, so that is realistically when replacement motors, batteries and all the other ancillaries related to the motor (controller, display, wiring etc) cannot be purchased, which is probably a good few years away if you buy a bike with one of the mainstream motor systems, eg, shimano, bosch, specialised, sram.

I'd go bosch personally, for various reasons including longevity of support.

I'm in the same position.

Modern geometry is pretty much sorted imo, so I could buy an ebike with Bosch and expect to be able to maintain/replace the power bits for 5-10 years?

many years like all bikes for me.,  But then I have no desire for the latest and greatest.  Bosch motors are best for spares / repairability.  I'll be disappointed with less than a decade out of mine

I’m curious about this too. My Levo is just over five years old, coming up to 6000 miles of use. It had the motor swapped under warranty after a few years when the drive belt started slipping but other than that it’s been like owning a normal full-sus (actually the suspension side of things has been very reliable), apart from eating through chains and cassettes very fast. It’s now on LinkGlide which is proving much more durable.

In an ideal world I’d add about 15mm to the reach, knock about a degree off the head tube angle and add a couple of degrees to the seat tube angle, which would make it a bit better at steeper gnarly stuff but it’s not a big deal, it’s still far better downhill than I am. It feels like geometry progression has pretty much come to a halt in the last couple of years, so that wouldn’t concern me.

The current Levo is mullet, not full 29 like mine, so I’m curious to see if the next version will take either size of rear wheel.

I've been trying to find some kind of statement from bosch for how many years they will provide support for any given motor system, but I can't find anything (I can find other people saying that bosch sya they will provide 10 years of support, but nothing from bosch themselves) , but given that I can still buy a new gen 4 motor which I think came out in 2018 or 2019, then I think their support is pretty decent.

Which gen is the CX line on now please?

Which gen is the CX line on now please?

Gen 4 smart system is the latest and current version, none of the gen4 smart system stuff is compatible with gen 4 which is the previous version which came out in 2018 or 2019.

So would you pick the brand of motor over brand of bike?

I would obviously try to get test rides where possible. I have only ridden a Hiabike which a mate lent me and it was great fun just ploughing through / over and down everything.😀

I’ve been trying to find some kind of statement from bosch for how many years they will provide support for any given motor system, but I can’t find anything (I can find other people saying that bosch sya they will provide 10 years of support, but nothing from bosch themselves) , but given that I can still buy a new gen 4 motor which I think came out in 2018 or 2019, then I think their support is pretty decent.

I'm sure that even if Bosch decided not to continue making certain spares, there would be enough of a market for a third party manufacturer to make them.

So would you pick the brand of motor over brand of bike?

I wouldn't buy a bike with the motor I wanted if it didn't also have the geo, travel, features etc I also wanted.

I think you've got to get both the motor you want plus the frame style/type you want. Given that there are decent frames using all the different motor systems, it should be possible to find what you want without much compromise as long as you're not wedded to one particular frame manufacturer.

But if you're (say) a santa cruz fan boy then you're obviously stuck with whatever motor system they use.

I wouldn't consider anything but the bosch or brose motors because of repairability and longevity

“So would you pick the brand of motor over brand of bike?”

for my first ebike I didn’t (*ho hum) 

for my second (and any other e-bikes to come) - mainly yes. (Must be rebuildable) 

at this point in time I’d go brose/bosch (*as I understand it both mostly repairable and lots of them around)  and am awaiting TQ repairability status before adding it to the potentials list. <br /><br />

maybe speak to https://www.ebikemotorcentre.com, regarding long term ownership motors , I believe he owns a levo. 

Bosch and Brose are the most repairable mainstream brands but I don’t think that even they have all parts available. 

So would you pick the brand of motor over brand of bike?

I wouldn’t pick a bike with a Shimano motor, no matter how good the bike was.

I’d also have to seriously think about another Specialized Brose bike. Yes they are great with warranty, but that’s a decision they have had to take, due to significant numbers of failures.

The best warranty is the one you don’t need to use. Based on the last 4 years, Bosch has been so much more reliable in our small sample group, which is why mine is a Bosch based bike.

Life span and cost to run are very separate things!

mines 400mls old and its off the trail more than on it. I bought new because i wanted warranty and boy have i needed it!  Plus it chomps through linkage bearings like they go out of fashion and they’re sadly not a warranty item. <br /><br />

currently going through a not fit for purpose request with Orbea but i know what the outcome will be. <br /><br />

if you plan on second hand or keeping long term then get one with a motor thats easily rebuildable. Few £00 to rebuild or £1k if buy replacement. <br /><br />From personal experience I’d also buy something designed in a country / region that sees loads of bogs n swamps  or has been tested in bogs n swamps like we have!  Or at least somewhere where it rains  a lot and isnt dusty all year round.  That was my big mistake  

With my current bikes I buy a new/ 2nd hand frame every other year just to make sure they are current(geometry etc)

That could get expensive/be impossible with an e-mtb... anyway, logically the two things, arguably three, that are question marks are the motor, the battery and the electrics. Bosch and Brose motors are both rebuildable outside of warranty - see the guys linked above who rebuilt and upgraded my Levo motor for £230 all in when the non-existent original seals led to the crank bearings - basically the bottom bracket - failing after 1600km of use.

Batteries are a bit of a potential headache. They're all proprietary and use a shedload of lithium ion cells inside a bespoke housing with bespoke electronics. For context, some of the latest Specialized batteries retail for more than £1,000 and while I'm sure there's potential for existing batteries to be re-celled,, as far as I know, no-one is actually offering the service commercially. New Brose motors seem to start at around £800 and upwards.

You do wonder if at some point there's going to be a glut of non-functioning emtbs out there, which are beyond sane economic repair - what are you going to do if both the battery and the motor fail catastrophically leaving you with a three-year-old e-bike chassis and a repair bill of, say, £2,000?

I think the bottom line is that 'realistic life' is going to depend on how you treat the bike, how much mileage you cover and what your attitude to repairing/replacing motors and batteries. Apart from those, it's basically the same as any other bike.

What would people see as an acceptable lifespan in years?

Oh, and how long do we reckon before there's an economically viable upgraded replacement motor/battery system that can be adapted to fit different motor mountings?

What would people see as an acceptable lifespan in years?

At least a decade and really longer.

A can of worms, but like a car I guess, how its ridden will have a major impact on longevity. Cruise up steep hills, max power and low cadence and the whole drivetrain gets torqued to the max. Your legs + 90 extra Nm.  Freehub, chain motor bearings, the works. <br /><br />Adapt to a more spinny style as all motors (well, my Brose for one), have sweet spots then in my uneducated opinion, things get an easier life. Spin and play the gears. <br /><br />Car parallel, uphill in 6th gear whe you should really be in 2nd/3rd... it will do it but there is a lack of mechanical sympathy and I'm sure that comes back as more failures. <br /><br />4 Brose in the household and very happy. Brose / Bosch have been in the motor biz for years with literally millions produced for automotive and powertools. Shimano... can't repair so easily.. think leaky brakes = bin.

Some brands not in the UK are now doing Pinion belt drive e-bikes. They look really well sorted.

@BadlyWiredDog

You've put into context what I was thinking.  With my other bikes/frames I choose to swap them out because I can afford to or fancy a change. But I couldn't do that with an E-bike. I would want longevity out of it.

I have a half glass filled attitude to most things  but outlaying 6-7K potentially for a bike that could me big$ to keep it going dose not sit well.  Maybe I'll wait a while. For context I have a pacemaker fitted and even though I'm quite fit , riding especially through the winter months can be tough so a little bit of help would have been welcomed.

Buy new well specced ebike.

Strip everything off it and sell it as new other.

Replace all that with your own used stuff.

You'll save a fair bit of money so it wont seem so wild a purchase. But as to your 6/7k figure, most seem happy spending 5k.

Our Yamaha motor ebike had a strip and motor service after 4 years, it was £300.
Battery showing 95%

To be honest, that's not terrible.

The E-Bike Motor Centre can repair most motors for very reasonable money.

There are lots of specialists who can re-cell batteries - I got my Bosch one done for £250 recently.

From what I've learned - I'd avoid anything with a Shimano motor and go for Bosch or Yamaha.

You can make an E-Bike last as long as you want.

I know this is just based on the anecdotal evidence you see across the internet, but there are an awful lot more e-bikes about than when I got mine in 2018 and it feels like the number of people moaning about failures is much lower than back then. And the failures usually seem to be motor or control electronics, not the battery (or its electronics).

I would only buy an ebike from a brand with a good reputation for supporting its owners, and a bike whose motor is supported by repairers. But I don’t think you need to be scared of spending thousands and it becoming scrap within just a few years.

Part of me wonders if e-bikes might be less likely to become scrap than normal bikes? I’m constantly astounded by the number of normal bikes left to degrade to the point that repairing them will cost far more than buying a new bike, and most of them are then left to die. But something with a motor may be seen as having more value and worth saving?

Not exactly what the OP asked for, but this is relevant to @julians post (above) oh, and maybe @chiefgrooveguru as well. Incompatibility issues are a real problem according to Rob, and something we should be aware of:

Doesn’t help , but a 2022 Orbea rise battery and motor are not compatible with a 2023 Orbea Rise and vice versa, which is completely nuts IMO

<br />All my current analogue bikes are 10 years or so old . I doubt an ebike will get 5 yrs

Totally agree with that video . I had a 2019 Kona Remote Ctrl with a Bosch Gen 2 motor. 4 motors later Bosch finally E mailed me personally and advised not to ride the bike through water as the motor in their words " Doesn't like it " 🤔By then they had moved on to a Gen 4 with supposedly better water proofing but guess what not backward compatible 😡 

I was told Bosch doesn't want to waste resources making improvements to previous Gen motors it's about progressing 🙄

As many say, motors are completely serviceable, bar Shimano, ebike motors are pretty much 50 year old technology that's been used on many household items for decades, obsolescence is an issue, but for many, parts aren't an issue, except maybe if the PCB goes, but finding them isn't that hard just now. Batteries again aren't difficult to replace, or repair, again they're nothing special technically, just their integration on the bike.

There has been improvement in the way they design motors thankfully, a few years back they were poorly waterproofed, so any ingress could pretty much destroy it from the inside out, nowadays they've worked out that as it's quite exposed due to its location, waterproofing is a major requirement.

You’ve put into context what I was thinking.  With my other bikes/frames I choose to swap them out because I can afford to or fancy a change. But I couldn’t do that with an E-bike. I would want longevity out of it.

I'm maybe looking at it in a worst case sort way tbf and the 2017 Levo sat in the front room may not have cutting edge geometry, but is still perfectly useable. You'd also hope that e-bike motors will have benefitted from a bit of development since then, both in terms of power delivery and robustness particularly in wet conditions, I also think it's positive that Specialized at least, with the latest Levo SL, has actually started to address the issue of motor noise, which is my personal dislike about a lot of them. 

I wonder if we'll end up with some sort of post-warranty, e-bike bangernomics culture. Right now you can buy a 2017 Levo like mine on eBay for £1600, allegedly with 400 miles on the clock, some bar-ends, nasty sticker graphics and a set of bar-ends. The original RRP was £4500, I think. Ideally you's also spend £220 odd getting the motor rebuilt with upgraded bearings and seals. 

Just popping in with e-cargo bike info as the motors and batteries don’t care what frame they are in. Our Tern is 4 1/2 years and over 8,000 miles old, in daily use and still with original battery and motor. And still using 10 speed gears. Parts will be available for many years to come for the much wider use than just fun I.e. e-mtbs. I expect easily a decade or longer for ours. The bearings and running gear will be the replacement parts, as they currently are.

Just popping in with e-cargo bike info as the motors and batteries don’t care what frame they are in.

That's broadly true, but e-cargo bikes don't get dragged through, say, the gritty slurry that is Peak District trails in the wet for example, which is certainly where early Specialized Brose motors struggled thanks to having inadequate sealing. Hopefully brands have learned from that.

Part of me wonders if e-bikes might be less likely to become scrap than normal bikes?

Yes, by the numbers. Lots of £100 supermarket specials.

I do wonder long term, though. There's a lot of people who seem to suggest they'd only buy new for the warranty support - that suggests that they'd have a shorter lifespan due to reduced second-owner market.

I have 2020 Levo SL and Creo SL’s. They have both had easy lives, in fact in 2023 the Creo did under 100 miles and the Levo maybe half a dozen rides. It had a new motor, outwith warranty but with a good contribution from Spesh, early last summer and had been ridden a couple of times since. Im hoping they last a long time as they were pretty expensive and residual value is very poor.

I ride gravel and regular road much more than e bikes now, as heart problems have stabilised a bit.

@BadlyWiredDog gritty slurry, no. Sleety slush, salted roads and heavy rain yes. The mudguards help somewhat but not 100%. The difference between a tool and a toy I suppose?

My 2019 Levo (which I’ve had since 2018) has been used in all conditions - its first ride was in proper wet muddy filth, and it’s been used pretty much five days a week year-round for commuting and actual MTBing. Anyone who knows me will confirm that I’m very much not a fair weather MTBer - I only have limited riding windows due to work and children and if it’s a gale and monsoon I’m still going out!

Yes, it’s needed a replacement drive belt (done with a whole motor swap as it was under warranty) but I see aftermarket places will do that for under £200.

Conversely the 160mm Lyrik up front is on its second damper, second CSU and that second CSU has then had a stiffer heavier aftermarket steerer tube pressed and glued in when it started creaking again… That’s not exactly an ebike issue though!

“I do wonder long term, though. There’s a lot of people who seem to suggest they’d only buy new for the warranty support – that suggests that they’d have a shorter lifespan due to reduced second-owner market.”

I’ll be interested to see about that. It’s an immature market and it’s been a bit of a journey into the unknown. As I said earlier, anecdotally it seems like ebike faults are becoming less common and there are now a number of businesses out there to service and repair out-of-warranty e-bikes.

Yes, they’re not as cheap as normal bikes can be - but most motor repairs seem to be cheaper than one of those new electric mechs or fancy cassettes - and a motor makes a far bigger difference to your ascending speed than electric gears and a lighter cassette!

Is there much they can repair? I thought it was just seals and bearings for most of the motors (i.e. not Brose/Specialized). Anything else has to be salvaged from other motors, as manufacturers won't sell spares (e.g. for gears, torque sensors, circuit boards etc). There's also the issue that you can spend several hundred getting the motor serviced, then get a torque sensor fault or whatever the next day and have to buy a new motor anyway.

There's some people with big mileages on emtb forums, but they tend to using them more as touring or commuting bikes rather than pulling down some phat air every ride.

“Anything else has to be salvaged from other motors, as manufacturers won’t sell spares”

Interesting. I believe that’s in contravention of the new EU “right to repair” law (I know we’re not in the EU now but much of their market is) so I’ll be interested to see what happens in the coming years.

I believe that’s in contravention of the new EU “right to repair” law

The right to repair laws only apply to certain categories of goods such as domestic appliances, they don't apply to ebike motors, so that's not going to help unless they widen the scope of the law to include ebike

Looking at the comments on this post, it appears they are making their own replacement parts now which is pretty good. I don't think they can fix the electronics though.

 It’s an immature market and it’s been a bit of a journey into the unknown.

Bang on. The real answer, currently, I suspect, is that we don't really know. It's promising that guys like the eBike Motor Centre exist - service and efficiency when I used them last year was superb - and hopefully more will emerge as the market (presumably) expands, ditto on the battery/electrics side of things.

What we don't really know is how current owners are likely to behave once bikes are out of warranty. If people will get on a regular upgrade path or, because the bikes are more expensive in the first place, hold onto them for longer. And what's going to happen in the second hand market as a result.

It’s promising that guys like the eBike Motor Centre exist

I used them and they were excellent yes... but there's also issues for example with the Yamaha that they can't fix/resolve, for example the PCB side of things. Which Giant/Yamaha can't or won't sell, or they will for the same price as a motor.

What people seem to miss though is that even a motor isn't a complete deal breaker. Sure it's expensive i agree, but a battery/motor is only 50% more than say a set of Fox 38s (ignoring massive sale discounts for a moment), so if you shatter a set of Fox 38s after 4 years, you're not expecting them to be fixed by Fox, you foot the bill yourself and take the hit.

People seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what's viable to last 'forever'... If your TV dies after 5 years, you buy a new TV, if you car does an injector/piston, then that's something you fix yourself.

Somehow it seems people want all the benefits of the motor, but without the risk that mechanical things do actually break.

With my current bikes I buy a new/ 2nd hand frame every other year just to make sure they are current(geometry etc)

Whereas I buy a bike and run it into the ground, only replacing 'it' once the frame is past maintenance.

Example - carbon Cube died when it destroyed some bushings and I could neither buy them nor get the spec from Cube to have some made and the Spesh Camber Carbon got so baggy in the rear that it just shat bearings monthly.  I then bought a Cotic FS and it's now coming up to 6 years old and only on it's 2nd set of frame bearings (+5000 miles).

But I did buy an eBike just over a year ago, and in 2200 miles it's had:

under warranty - two motors, battery, extender battery, loom, TCU, seat post, rear shock rebuild (Fox)

paid for - 4 chains, 4 sets of tyres, swapped the brakes to Saints & Galfer rotors, fork service (TF Tune), front chain ring, swapped to shorter cranks

I'll do the same with this as every other bike, and once out of warranty any replacement parts will come with 2 years cover - I reckon by the time it's 4 years old someone will have come up with a lightweight gearbox eBike, and I'll swap it out.

mine is 3 yrs old and well out of warrenty. original motor. shimano. used lots. (lots in teh wet - but not actual raining where i could avoid it - just because, well, electric!). Easily best thing i`ve ever bought. even if it costs me another £800 for a motor. probably gonna send teh motor off for a service soon as i recon the bearings must be done by now!

there are guys that can re-construct batteries if one goes pop - so should be good for a while.