[Closed] Dumyat. Another cracking descent gone....

The real world is that if it comes down to a conflict of use between walkers and bikers going too fast then the walkers will win that argument. Under the access code bikers have a duty to give way to walkers ie being responsible.

Which was kinda my point. This is a very busy wee hill, though I've never seen any conflict riding there, some riders are dicks.

I have no opinion on the trail in question as I've never been. I did want to comment though that posting pictures of mountain bikers on both sides of the barrier as well as leaning on the digger inside the no-go zone is NOT a great way to look like responsible members of the public! If you want to be taken seriously, and not be ejected from even more trails then try acting responsibly.
Sorry for the rant, but this kind of lack of respect really bothers me as I remember how hard we fought for access to trails in the first place.

Aye, that's the biggest tragedy in this whole situation, people going the other side of a tape, and leaning on a digger that isn't running.

I don't know how those folks can sleep at night.

I did want to comment though that posting pictures of mountain bikers on both sides of the barrier as well as leaning on the digger inside the no-go zone is NOT a great way to look like responsible members of the public!

Absolutely, they should've gone around and created a new path

How did the meeting go?

I did want to comment though that posting pictures of mountain bikers on both sides of the barrier as well as leaning on the digger inside the no-go zone is NOT a great way to look like responsible members of the public!

A bit of red tape does not a no go zone make.

The moral debate was whether to drop a tollie.

😆 😆 😆

I love that word...TOLLIE. 😆

My point being the impression that gives of our community and it's lack of respect for others. With that attitude I'm on the side of the guys with diggers and would expect to lose many more trails. Surrey hills had some trails flattened recently too and that does appear to be down to lack of respect for others.

Aye, we got your point, and it was about as relevant as comparing this with what happened in the Surrey hills.

Weird because it looks like people are trying to negotiate with the council for better consideration of mountain bikers and their needs while some of those people have actively shown themselves to be self entitled nobbers with no respect for others in a public forum. Obviously I've misunderstood the thread though!

I wouldn't worry lusty. Nobrainsinthehead struggles with the concept of personal responsibility, and how the actions of a few give a negative impression of the entire community.

Which is why organizations can't be bothered to consult with them, and just get on it with. People ain't got time to deal with 12 year old children on bikes masquerading as adults.

Lusty - YHou are right but its a tiny irrelevant point and there is no comparison with the surrey hills because of right to roam and its not an illegally built MTB trail - its just a path

Right to roam isn't the same as the right to dig trails though, so from that perspective it's identical. You're allowed to be there but technically digging is still vandalism, surely?
Regardless, it's better to act nice and be responsible so that when we need to negotiate we actually have a leg to stand on.

You're allowed to be there but technically digging is still vandalism, surely?

Lusty - no one has been digging trails. This is an eroded path on a popular hill. It needed erosion control measures. the arguement is about the fact its been done by contractors in the wrong way not even adhering to the specs they were given and some believe even the spec was wrong.

So nothing like the illegal trailbuilding on Surrey hills !

The work has been halted until Friday.

This is not a mountain bike trail. This trail "The Tourist Path" has been there since the Sherrifmuir road was built over a 100 years ago. Some of the trails we ride on up there were made by the local Maeatae tribe who were kicking Roman ass in the 2nd century AD.

We don't really have "mountain bike trails" in this area. We don't need them. The Land Reform Act specially allows mountain bikes to ride pretty much anywhere in Scotland - excluding golf courses, gardens and nuclear reactors. We just have multi-use trails for everyone - on foot, maxxis or hoof.

There are great dedicated mtb trails in Scotland - come and visit, but be sure to add some wild trails into the mix.

Nobrainsinthehead

😆 😆 😆

^^^ what a great post lusty, I'm calling him that from now on 😀

It wasn't lusty ya roaster! 😆

Hahaha, neither it was 😀

Thanks my for correcting me Nobrainsinthehead 😀

Fair play to the Stirling mob for standing up and calling foul.

When I heard there was a path being constructed, I naturally assumed it'd be something along the lines of the handbuilt, pitched rock stuff I enjoy riding in the Lakes, or in a worse case scenario, something like that path that was shown in the video a couple of pages back.

My initial reaction on seeing the photos was ,"Well, that's not even remotely finished", but now I'm beginning to understand how wrong I was. I would not have believed that the company who won the tender would so blatantly ignore their own plans, fines should be imposed on them, but I also can't believe that it came down to a public outcry before work stopped. Where were the folk who approved the work?

Dumyat still needs some sort of armoured path to cope with the sheer number of folk heading up and down it in all weather conditions, let's hope that it'll get done properly now.

It's McGowans carrying out the work. As already posted, they have previous on Cairngorm with work supposedly to be carried out by hand and then using trucks and diggers. I guess it's easy to win contracts and make profits when you can undercut those who would actually do it properly.

Fair do's BB, I do definitely agree that there are sections that a properly armoured path would be great. Mainly the bog and that bit up near the top that there's loads of gullies on.

Yours,

Nobrains.

Where were the folk who approved the work?

This is a key point. It's not normal to just leave the Contractor to it in these situations. There should have been a site kickoff meeting, reviews of Method Statements, daily toolbox meetings, supervision by Client Rep etc etc ...

All very very odd.

Welcome to the world of 21st century procurement - with Edinburgh Schools and defects at Dumfries Leisure Centre etc what chance does a path have 😕

Again well done to BofA lads. And to Beagy takes a big man and all that 😈

(Just off to have my head scanned to see if I do have a brain 🙂 )

I was up at the path on Dumyat last night in the rain. Obviously the path is not complete but was already suffering with drainage issues. McGowan really have tried to hide the mess by dragging 1m sections of turf over the sides to make the path look narrower.

Would have been a good idea except that under the turf is the previous rock path and in places exposed rock (Dumyat biking is all about exposed rock). This turf will die in about 4 weeks time leaving yet another problem. I stood on one bit and could rock it backwards and forwards like a surfboard.

Does anyone have an update for non-locals who are curious as to what is happening?

Yes - lesser works agreed, in line with contract, going forward, particularly the boggy bits not the bedrock sections.. The existing cock up to be made as best as possible.

Local green MSP (and mountain biker) is all over it...as are so many local riders. One mess up and it will be reported on.

Nice work!

\o/

Excellent! Well done all. That sound like a remarkably positive outcome compared to what I was expecting to happen.

Excellent.

Dare I say it, the boggy bit getting sorted will result in a better descent than it was.

Happy days.

Joint Statement:

An on site meeting took place at Dumyat last Friday between a number of stakeholders and SPEN . There was an opportunity for SPEN and the contractors to explain how the path was being constructed . A number of people representing different organisations expressed their views these included the following:

The visual look of the path

The loss of the natural rock outcrop

The over engineered construction

The need to do something about the bogging area

The original lack of signage

The width of the path

The steepness of the path

After a discussion facilitated by Councillor Alasdair Tollemache the following was agreed:

1The section of path which has been started will be completed

2 Once this is completed there will be period when people can look at this and feedback given

3 There will be parts of the path where potentially no work will be done

4 The bogging section will be resolved

5 if there is a feeling amongst the stakeholders that he path construction is not want people want it would be removed

Councillor Alasdair Tollemache

SPEN STATEMENT

Dumyat Hill Path Statement

The recently started project to improve the Dumyat Hill path has given rise to some local concern. The project was approved by the Beauly Denny Partnership Group, which includes representatives from Stirling Council, the Scottish Government Central Scotland Green Networks and SP Energy Networks, and was designed following an extensive period of consultation. The work is intended to address the ongoing deterioration of the existing path as it continues to grow in popularity, and was taken forward by SP Energy Networks as part of its commitment to invest in local visual mitigation projects following the construction of the new power line.

In order to address the concerns raised, recent meetings have been held with a range of stakeholders, including a number of local elected representatives. The discussions covered the sensitivity of the Ochil Hills landscape and provided an opportunity for SP Energy Networks and its contractors to explain the construction process and the techniques employed.

SP Energy Networks Transmission Director, Pearse Murray, said:

“The recent meetings have been constructive and we are pleased to be able to take forward a range of improvements that have been initiated locally and endorsed by both The Beauly Denny Legacy Steering Group, and the Beauly Denny Partnership Group. The contractors working on the project are highly experienced specialists, with an extensive track record of working in environmentally sensitive areas. We apologise for the short-term impacts while the work is underway, but the end result will deliver improvements in keeping with the local landscape and the vision that was approved by the Partnership Group.”

So much Business Bullshit Bingo from the SP Energy chap....

But a great result so far...

Dare I say it, the boggy bit getting sorted will result in a better descent than it was.

Not really, does anyone actually come down that way?

Mibbe I'm getting the boggy bit mixed up! Isn't it just right after the really Rocky section, big jaggy bedrock bastard then through a bog and back over the wee stile/fence?.

er so there might be two boggy sections to discuss 🙂

There's also the really wide big section you have to get through on the way up. Always minging even in summer. Fixing both would be good!

Aye, know the bit you mean matey.

So, are the contractors and SP energy basically saying there was nothing wrong with their approach, and to just wait and see what the finished section of path looks like?

In my head, and I'm sure everybody and their granny is ready to pitch in and tell me how wrong my head is 🙄 , they flattened and covered that rocky outcrop so they could lay pitched steps in its place. Not ideal, but it would have alleviated the multiple, eroded lines around that section by channelling everyone up the same route. Was that their original plan, which we just haven't seen completed yet? Or were they simply going to bulldoze and lay a flat gravel path all the way to the summit?

Sounds like the contractors intentions were way off SP networks, who knows what it would've ended up looking like.

Today's photo.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1GDq2XvKqUVclZLVzlKV1c2WDVtYl85bkhTRDlrSlROR29J

Breathtakingly unbelievable. This is not what we agreed.
The local councillor is on the phone to senior directors at SPEN. Seriously unimpressed.

That's just bizarre!

I get the feeling whoever is running the site works didn't take in a single word of the discussion

I've put the article from Wednesday's Observer here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XiTePjweMSKcqY6x2

Captures what was agreed.

I get the feeling whoever is running the site works didn't take in a single word of the discussion

Will let you know what develops today....

Is it being thick, arrogance or misplaced sense of 'this is better'?

Grrr

Cllr Alasdair Tollemache has been back in touch with SPEN following the above

So they took the feedback about what they needed to do to make it actually better and decided to make 2 completely separate trails instead? Weird.

Truly great work everyone working against this, though. I grew up riding up there, and all the photos bring back some fond memories, as well as a sense of disappointment.

Have sent another flurry of complaints, unlikely to make much difference going by the latest developments.

The latest on Dumyat:

Stirling Council to stage meeting over anger at 'second track' on Dumyat Hill

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/stirling-council-stage-meeting-following-11254315#ICID=Android_DailyRecordNewsApp_AppShare

Ive complained again to SpEn and not had reply....

Glad you and Bruce are on it - I would join you tomorrow if I could, but I'm training in Fife...

Cycling-UK Right-To-Rep for Stirling, Dr Crispin Bennett

I couldn't get time up work but another interested party is going to represent the club (as well as Bruce).

Good work folks.

From Stirling Council:
"I now attach my note of the meeting which should be read in conjunction with a separate summary and mapping from Chris Cairns and Bob Aitken, also attached. This includes Section 3 :- 'A revised approach to current and future repairs' which I am of the view is a fair summary of the proposals discussed at the meeting.
Given the oncoming winter it may not be feasible for the finally agreed scope of works to be completed this year however, as highlighted in the proposals, the timeous completion of the initial section of path would pre-empt winter damage."

Attached files at:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1GDq2XvKqUVd3lVbUhDZHpfVWFhaVdNZnlSQlBYMnU1UWhr/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1GDq2XvKqUVVk9tX195VXNEVllJYjBZaEc1ZmMtSTV3T3BR/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1GDq2XvKqUVX2pCTkRwSGdHSWFsMjFLYjdDQnk5dGVhUXpZ/view?usp=sharing

A definite improvement on what was planned but still some arguments to be had. I'll put together my response on Thursday, following discussion with my biking friends. Please email if you have any thoughts.

I was up there last night with my European visitors. The mud path Futher up is so slippery most of them to to the grass edge and last few bits of bedrock...

Any update on the state of play with the Dumyat path at the moment?

Muddy at lunchtime.

Work is halted.

A path expert called Bob Aitken has offered to come out of retirement and help. A massive thanks for his efforts.

A group talked through the proposals on the hillside a few weeks back (the third Friday on the trot - two or three MTBers were present) and consultations have been bouncing around. The proposed work has been scaled back considerably but a fair bit is still planned. Three responses were received back, including mine and a MTBer ecologist.

Waiting for Stirling Council who are now driving the process (ahem) to come up with the next steps.

I had a face-face yesterday with SPEN - who are contracting a contractor who are contracting MacGowan's - where I said again that I am happy to accept what Bob Aitken comes up with, but do not trust MacGowan and that they must follow the spec and I want every inch of their work supervised.

SPEN also have ideas to help Dumyat going forward - adopting path maintenance etc but this is early stages - and full credit for their approach here.

Please email if you want more info - or come to the brewery on a Friday 🙂

I have posted an update onto a new thread:

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/dumyat-an-update?replies=1#post-8947642

Hi,

Are there any Stirling locals who know what's going on with the trails from the Monument on the Sheriffmuir Road? The track north from the Monument to the Gathering Stones has already been given the full motorway treatment (eight feet wide with mini-road roller up there today). The track that heads SW from the Monument (the one almost parallel to the road) looks like its being prepared for the same.

I'm more than happy to contact the Council / local councillor but I wanted to see if I could find out some more details first.

Thanks

Never seen this the first time, so have they killed it? Any detailed, recent pics of the area?

Hopefully this link to the tracks works ok.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xjegu0zbraabmcy/AADUD8hXHi3-lgsMG92F719Xa?dl=0

It's just more of this ridiculous "upgrade" of the core path network in the area. I've contacted the council to no avail.

They've ruined this trail for no access reason that I can see. Access into the Gathering Stone ... maybe but ... down to Dykedale? Really?

My fear is the Wharry Burn is going to go the same way.