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Today's cheery photo is here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/qfoDIXjYik2Mtq5E3
So, never having been there and never likely to be there either - from that last photo it looks like what they've done is just fill in the low spots with peaty topsoil.
What use did anyone ever think that would be? Won't it just turn into a shitty mess in winter?
Turf piled at side would suggest they've cut that off the sections that look like topsoil, and are going to cover the whole lot.
Who knows.
Aye, Light on Dumyat is a belter of a story...
I wonder what they are planning for the rocky section that leads down to the fence and also that narrower rocky section a bit further up. Surely they aren't going to blast rock to widen the track all the way!
Wonder if someone speaks nicely to them they could stick in some berms and table tops while they're at it!
As above, they'll probably by pass those rocky areas.
Is this all in the last week or so? I ran over Dumyat in the Ochils 2000 race 2 weekends back and never saw anything like that. Admittedly I was breathing out my arse at the time!
More like the last 2 days
Ok, ta.
Jeez that 'Light on Dumyat' book brings back memories. I had forgotten all about it.
Spoke to the fellas building the path today. Apparently, they've been getting a lot of abuse from trail users, which really isn't on. They are "only" building a path from the fence up to the summit and there are no plans to build any other paths. As a result, the descent that most people use (from the top down to the path splits and then down the Yellow Craig) will only be affected at the top part. Having ridden this area for 20 years, there aren't many folk I see riding this as a descent all the way down. Also, for the top section, there are a whole bundle of lines down and I really can't see them filling all these in. If this provides a more sustainable route to the top of Dumyat, well, that might be a good thing. The trail erosion since the above mentioned Peaty/Macaskill/Guy Martin video has been nothing short of horrendous. Give the guys building the path a break ... They are just doing their job. Equally, some path improvement over "the bog" is definitely welcome. However, I can't see a couple of winters bedding this path in. From what I learned today, it will be of a very similar construction to the path down to the Main Whitehills car park and yhat hasn't weathered in at all.
No one on here has advocated abusing the guys.
Did they say who were giving them issues? All users or a particular group?
heard it was a bunch of Tories on ebikes.
So a friend lives close and has been writing about Dumyat for a while, https://aye.tf/2017/09/07/thoughts-on-the-dumyat-path/ is his post on the new works.
Very sensible piece, thanks.
Another good read, ta.
Just spoken to the Council about this. They are were understanding and polite but reckon the first they knew about it was yesterday after various people having a pop on Twitter and the like.
The only help they could really give was to try the MSP route and get onto Scottish Power directly #twitterstorm
Insane.
Someone can just turn up and start hacking a road into a hillside with a digger, and the best the local authority can offer is to ask you to cause a shitstorm.
Danny Mac on Dumyat if anyones interested,
What a waste, loved Dumyat, tore hell out of myself on the thin section with the rock on one side (bars twisted/bike stopped/I didn't/arm used as brake) Happy Times
Someone can just turn up and start hacking a road into a hillside with a digger,
Its not 'someone' though is it. This was all agreed wasn't it, as a sweetener for the pylon thing? Surely the council were implicit in this- someone is telling porkies.
Apparently it was a mountain biker who was dishing out the abuse on Tuesday.
Its not 'someone' though is it. This was all agreed wasn't it, as a sweetener for the pylon thing? Surely the council were implicit in this- someone is telling porkies.
Which is my point.
Did they say who were giving them issues?
Probably some knee jerking drama queens with limited social skills that leads to an inability to ask sensible questions to the right people before mouthing off / posting on forums.
🙁
Don't see what the problem is. Making the summit easily accessible for everyone sounds like a good idea to me. It's not like it's the only hill in the country..
Don't see what the problem is. Making the summit easily accessible for everyone sounds like a good idea to me. It's not like it's the only hill in the country..
It already was accessible to most people, at least on foot. Be nice if we don't lose every hill to the drive for easy accessibility.
SPen are about to issue a press release. There has been a lot of inter-agency communications today.
I think most people are not against the path, but the scale of what is being done and the method clearly won't work. The path/road being built is simply scraped bedrock and turned over a bit into a muddy/rocky mess that's over 3m wide in places.
It already was accessible to most people, at least on foot. Be nice if we don't lose every hill to the drive for easy accessibility.
It's unlikely that this will happen to every hill in the country. I think people are overreacting a little.
Still waiting on an answer to this, feel free to step up gav
If you've got suggestions of natural trails that are as good and within such easy reach then I'd love to hear about them
Which one is as good as the normal Dumyat loop though?
Aberfoyle is miles better than Dumyat IMHO
TBH.. I rate Cambusbarron and North Third as being better than Dumyat as well..
I've also heard good things about Glen Devon although I haven't ridden there
I'm all for new/reconstructed paths being built to combat the effects of erosion on popular hills. I've seen some great examples of well built paths where a lot of thought and effort has went into them (unfortunately this doesn't look like one of them). I've also seen plently dickheads both on foot and on bike shortcutting them or running alongside them creating new lines adding to problems. It's selfish behaviour and needless, go build your own stuff or ride eleswhere if you can't ride what's there. The access code allows for responsible access, it's about time people start paying attention to what constitutes this otherwise rights that took a long time to gain will be taken away bit by bit.
Aberfoyle is a totally different sort of place. You wouldn't compare Dumyat to the Golfie, and that's the same kind of place as Aberfoyle.
N3rd is also really good but completely different again as it doesn't have the massive continuous downhill hat Dumyat has, it doesn't really have much downhill at all (1,100ft elevation including some playing in Cambu iirc)
Dumyat is a big loss to a lot of people
A very Tory type **** you Jack attitude Gav. You have tweed valley, not all of us have that locally.
I'd expect better from you tbh.
I live an hour away from Tweed Valley..
15-20 minutes from Dumyat. Dumyat is more local to me than Tweed Valley
Even more disappointing that you think that's okay then.
A very Tory type **** you Jack attitude Gav.
It's actually a more socialistic attitude. I think that anything that improves access for everyone is good. If the path was exclusively for use by MTB's then I could see the point in people being pissed off.
Edit - in fact, I can't be arsed tbh.
Happy biking folks, Even you Gav.
Edit - in fact, I can't be arsed tbh.Happy biking folks, Even you Gav.
Thanks... I think 🙂
Probably another of the sanctimonious Stirling Mudders that believe they are an authority on all things mountain biking. There was previous trolling on the thread by one...
Dumyat was an evening ride and there's not much comparable locally. Aberfoyle is a drive away and not possible after work.
Aberfoyle is a drive away and not possible after work.
Not trying to troll, but if you have a car, then Aberfoyle is 25 minutes drive from Stirling and it is very much doable in an evening (assuming you live in Stirling)...the major difference between the 2 areas is that Dumyat is right on the doorstep to Stirling people so is much more doable.
I'm interested to see the press release, particularly if it covers what the plans are for the boggy bit and the upper sections. This destructive wide path along the route of the current main path cannot be the best solution.
The existence of Aberfoyle trails does absolutely nothing to mitigate this.
I really don't buy the accessibility for all thing.
Dumyat Path - the finished article bar the final compaction.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4RomNf8tFkeuNyih1
The climbs are just steep slopes and what was exposed rock is under this mess too. They've got as far as the first narrow section.
They've not progressed any further up the hill - I guess the plan is to leave each section "finished" in time for the weekend traffic.
I challenge anyone to run, walk or cycle up this.
To complain, email as per the link for Customer Care North.
https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/complaints.aspx State that it's not senstitive, it's not best practice and there's still no site toilet (I could go on,,,,)
So all they have done is taken the top level of soil/grass off? That's a bog waiting to happen not a path.
No - they've taken the top level of soil/grass off, mixed it up and then put it back down.
Not really an improvement on what I said is it lol
It's kinda a shame - I loved that descent... I think my fastest time down was chasing some (considerably more talented) folks down on an OLD Patriot (which I sold to Beagleboy many, many years ago and I believe he still has!). It was an eyes closed, point and prey type affair!
That said, I do think it is going to erode and become something worthwhile again... it may take a while, and it will be different - but perhaps it will be as good in it's own way.
(I am trying to be positive - every time I am up there I wish I had brought the bike with me! Perhaps I will get out on my new local improved trail soon in solidarity... it's Walna Scar so a bit further down the re-eroded path!)
Comedy lols from SPE https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/news/pages/dumyat_hill.aspx
replicate the existing path using the same materials
Oookay then. I suppose sending up a digger to move some of the same soil around a bit is cheaper than carting up loads of stone and aggregate.
Our contractors on site will be happy to discuss the techniques being employed for those people who are visiting while the work is taking place.
I bet the digger driver will be over the moon
Oh dear...that is a comical release. Sounds like head office has decided to put the buzzwords in and the contractor wants the quickest way to complete...and never the twain shall meet!
FYI the post I linked to yesterday, https://aye.tf/2017/09/07/thoughts-on-the-dumyat-path/, has been updated since the press release was issued.
Is the contractor McGowan by any chance? If so, the same firm is currently making a horrid mess of Coire na Ciste.
No comment from me on whether they should be taking down the old chairlift, but if the objective is to remediate the landscape they aren't trying asll that hard.
The emails are making a difference.
SPEN have agreed to a site visit to discuss the issues and have suspended work until then (I know it's a weekend but they did suspend work!).
Please also email your MSP and local councillor with your concerns. Then forward the email to customercare@spenergynetworks.com - making it clear it is a complaint. These SPEN emails are tracked and have to be followed up (they've been encouring everyone to use the majorprojects email which is not accountable). Thanks!
The works have been put on pause. They will complete the lower section they've dug up and showcase it and get public feedback.
Please continue to complain using the link above.
Thanks to the "old but fast, sanctimonious, BofA bikers" who seem very well connected. Our MSP Mark Ruskell was pretty helpful too, who happens to be a biker too.
Article from a local outdoors guy has been updated. It links to the plan for this path which needless to say had not been followed.
See the updated at the end.
this is the surface at Ben Vorlich that they are referencing
The picture is taken at the bit at 5:50 I think.
How far up Vorlich does that new path go.
quite far and they were still doing repairs when I was there last week. They won't be able to go much further due to the steepness though.
It made for a fast but uninteresting decent on that part of the mountain.
Dumyat Path -
the original tender pack states that the first sections (Sections 2 and 4) should be hand built only. These sections have been machine built by the SPEN contractor.
- Work has now been temporarily halted, thanks to the complaints, but we must make sure it does not re-start without adherence to the tender pack and best practice.
To complain, email as per the link for Customer Care North.
https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/complaints.aspx br />
cc: Your MSP and councillor and the Chief Executive of SPEN: Frank.mitchell@spenergynetworks.co.uk
Photos from last night: http://bit.ly/2jdE87e
The Tender pack (located yesterday): http://bit.ly/2eUeIdC
I just don't get it.
They are destroying the hillside for the sake of what? Granted, too much erosion is a bad thing. But all they had to do was put a boardwalk section over the boggy area to stop that section of the hill path widening by people avoiding the bog.
To decimate the path like this is criminal. Where's the planning application, where's the joined up thinking!!!? It's nothing short of butchery. How come everyone else has to follow the outdoor access code / right to roam laws.....except for the digger driver!!
The tender pack actually sounds 'ok', the fact it isn't being adhered to is the major issue...building what appears to be a motorway to 'fix' a motorway is simply not a solution.
Contractor appears to be trying to maximise their income whilst minimising their outgoings.
All this as it was sold as a sweetener to allow the pylons to be built.
The tender pack is, emphatically, not OK. The stated objective is to mitigate the erosion on the hill. This is undoubtedly needed, [url= https://aye.tf/2016/10/07/debunking-the-mtb-impact-myth/ ]I have bitched enough about that over the years[/url], and would much welcome an intervention the would do that, but the path upgrade as planned will not, and it will make things worse in the long run.
Addressing the erosion on the hill requires addressing the specifics of the mountain bike use, that is the primary erosion pressure on Dumyat. If the path were to do that, it would require that bulk of the MTBs would be confined to it. This simply will not happen, the design is not bike friendly enough (drainage bars galore), and it obliterates the best bits from the MTB point of view, e.g., this has already happened on the first section. Folk will simply start looking for new lines on the hill and the erosion pressure will move elsewhere. Within a year things will be as bad, if not worse, as now, because at least the current line has naturally evolved along parts of the hill that are fairly hard wearing, none of the more recent strava lines fares anywhere near as well as the old path has done.
The other reason this will not work is because the path cannot accommodate the bike and pedestrian traffic at the same time; the linked video from Ben Vorlich illustrates this, there is not enough space for bike and pedestrians to pass safely, never mind two bikes coming in the opposite direction. Dumyat is considerably busier than Ben Vorlich even on a weekday, never mind a good weather weekend. Bikes descending at speed that sort of a path will simply increase the existing tensions between different user groups on the hill, and sooner or later someone will get seriously hurt -- the only reason this has not happened yet is because nowhere on the hill we are strictly confined to a five foot corridor.
In order to address the erosion pressures on the hill two things need to happen. First of all the sections of the hill where erosion is a serious environmental issue (as opposed to cosmetic one) need to be stabilised. This includes the two bogs (which ideally need proper boardwalks) and the rapidly eroding shoots below the summit and between the top bog and the small climb on the way down. Ideally, this would be done so as to keep this interesting enough for the bike use, though the priority in these sections must be controlling erosion.
Second, any mitigation measures introduced need to be such as not push the bike traffic off the existing lines elsewhere on the hill. By far the best way of doing this would be to construct a new path along a more contouring line for the pedestrian traffic (there are far better options for this than the 'high road' the tender is taking), and make it sufficiently bike unfriendly to disincentives folk from riding it; this is easily done through the drainage bar design alone.
Unless the above happens, this whole exercise is just paying lip service to some bureaucrat's idea of 'public good' that has nothing to do with the reality on Dumyat. So no, the tender design is not OK.
I have a really cheap way of resolving that problem. It only involves a little brake pad material.Bikes descending at speed that sort of a path will simply increase the existing tensions between different user groups on the hill,
PS - welcome to the forum.
I have a really cheap way of resolving that problem. It only involves a little brake pad material.
Meanwhile, back in the real world....
Well said tf01...I've been saying similar for years but not public for the roasting I was expecting for speaking out.
Glad someone else posted it up. We, as members, do have a responsibility and a lot of the time it isn't being taken seriously until something like this happens...
(I'm now expecting a roasting)
The real world is that if it comes down to a conflict of use between walkers and bikers going too fast then the walkers will win that argument. Under the access code bikers have a duty to give way to walkers ie being responsible.Meanwhile, back in the real world....
Seems like more mountain bikers should read and understand the above then maybe problems wouldn't exist in the first place. The hills are not as much of a free for all playground some seem to think they are.Access rights extend to cycling. Cycling on hard surfaces, such as wide paths and tracks, causes few problems. On narrow routes, cycling may cause problems for other people, such as walkers and horse riders. If this occurs, dismount and walk until the path becomes suitable again. Do not endanger walkers and horse riders: give other users advance warning of your presence and give way to them on a narrow path. Take care not to alarm farm animals, horses and wildlife.If you are cycling off-path, particularly in winter, avoid:
going onto wet, boggy or soft ground, and
churning up the surface.
Well said KM - that and there is NO obligation to make paths MTB friendly nor should there be.
MTBers have the right to be on the hills subject to the usual "don't be a dick"
A path is bike friendly. When I decended Ben Vorlich I slowed down for people on the path. I had talked to most of them at some point and pretty much all wanted to see me come down (probably cause I'd fall ha ha ha ). I've had to stop on other places because people didn't move either on purpose or didn't hear me. I've met a few dicks decenting on dumyat, one guy sticks in my mind because he was wearing a FF and massive body armour. He hadn't even started the decent at he top and moaned because I was coming up lol
This is also a relevant article -[url= http://radventure.cc/andy-mckenna-a-guide-for-access/ ]http://radventure.cc/andy-mckenna-a-guide-for-access/[/url]
Congrats to TF, Callum, Crispin et all for obtaining a review period on this.
Curiously this months Scottish Mountaineer has an article on "sensitive" footpath building though the work is paid for by crowdfunding by MCofS/BMC and I suspect the tender package is largely based on this standard.
It is (reasonably) well accepted locally (including the LA) that this is a popular mtb route and I agree with TFs comments but it is hard to see were equivalent funding would come from to provide a separate mountain bike route though something the whole way down to Bridge of Allan would be a fantastic facility for the youngsters or at least those younger than old grumps like me.
Nice blog by the way TF - beautiful mountain photographs.
Could a dedicated mountain bike trail not be built? Use the new path to go up and a bike only trail to go down?
I'd give it approx 5mins until you found someone walking down it
YoKaiser - MemberCould a dedicated mountain bike trail not be built? Use the new path to go up and a bike only trail to go down?
for me thats a complete no
Thanks to the efforts of some well connected BofA bikers the work had paused. We're meeting with various authorities and the company building the trail tomorrow and hopefully some middle ground will be found for the rest of the trail.
Even if it doesn't work out, I'm sure we'll find a new "natural" route down. If there's one constant about the tourist path, it changes every year because of the mountain weather it gets.
The problem about putting in a dedicated bikers path is what then happens to the other one? Repeat this a few times and the end result is an end to path sharing and a severe curtailment of cyclists access. A few fannies, unable to accept their responsibilities, could screw it for everyone else.
If you want a dedicated MTB facility then head to Carron Valley, Glentress etc.