[Closed] Dumyat. Another cracking descent gone....

🙁

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Just been looking at the same photo 🙁 absolutely gutted. Just hoping that they don't do something drastic to try and narrow down the wide open sections up top

Apparently it's part of the Beauly denny remediation.

^^ were the pylons that went up last year/year before not for that? Is this more? Is there not a wind farm or something going up further back, maybe to do with that?

Aye, but it looks like this is some kind of good will agreement, giving something back so to speak.

Fuds.

Which bit?

From the road to the top

Get the pic up, canny be that bad...

Going to the top and was apparently a condition of the new power line. Stark contrast to the proposal in 2012 (Proposed Supplementary Guidance SG27 Protecting Special Landscapes)

Additional metalled roads/tracks, infrastructure and built structures could
compromise the perception of remoteness on Sheriff Muir and the open hills.
Potential to improve visitor and parking facilities, if this is kept low-key and close to existing roads.

All the way to the little car park where the path continues to the reservoir?
What about the bit down to the woods out the back of the university?

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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nobeerinthefridge/36244609613/ ]2017-09-05_10-47-05[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/59995395@N03/ ][/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]

Paul4stones, I really hope they leave that section.

Yes I see. 🙁 indeed.

That's such a shame. I was up there on Saturday night for the first time in ages and had forgotten how good the descent [s]is[/s] was

I'm furious about this. Going to go ride the remains good bits tomorrow before they are buried under tons of ugly hardcore.

Worth pinging an email off to the local MSP? Probably futile I know but.....

Heavy rain will soon help to return some fun with any luck.

Similar things have happenned here in South Wales in the past. Given time, and a lot of weather, things eventually revert to an equilibrium.

>Worth pinging an email off to the local MSP? Probably futile I know but.....<

To complain about path improvements?

Yup, utterly futile.

Look at the positives, the strava times will fall.

Is that the section used for the hill race? That's going to somewhat ruin it if so.

Assholes how dare they try to make the countryside more accessible to others!

The very same section KTC....

[url= https://www.flickr.com/gp/a11y_m/8wh0Fe ]Pics taken last night[/url] 🙁

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[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4405/37059608385_9be1d6516b_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4405/37059608385_9be1d6516b_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/YsQbrg ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (3)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

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[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/36662822880_a8c13ba7cd_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/36662822880_a8c13ba7cd_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XRLxVS ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (5)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4419/37059608365_8caab0beb7_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4419/37059608365_8caab0beb7_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/YsQbqV ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (6)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/36252198253_7a0c2c596e_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/36252198253_7a0c2c596e_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XetZwV ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (7)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/37059608175_f07a6c18ed_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/37059608175_f07a6c18ed_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/YsQbnD ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (8)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4347/36252198123_eeb5351da7_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4347/36252198123_eeb5351da7_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XetZuF ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (9)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4420/36662822650_e91c5886a5_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4420/36662822650_e91c5886a5_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/XRLxRU ]2017-09-05 RIP Dumyat (10)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/a11y_m/ ]Ally Mitchell[/url], on Flickr

take heart, the worlds best DH riders have to deal with the same thing.

That last image is horrific A11y.

Looks like the bits below the fence?

Are they going all the way to the summit? That's a horrific piece of vandalism if they do 😕

I've been walking and riding up and down there for decades and have witnessed, like many others, the way that the trail has seriously degraded over the last 10 years. The 'sad and boggy' bit is in a particularly hideous state due to misguided attempts at 'trail maintenance' and folk riding there when it's way too wet.

I rarely ride the main route now, as on most nice dry days, the path is really busy with walkers and a new breed of Strava knobs who appear hell bent on leathering it down the hill, scattering everyone before them while they film themselves on their GoPros. The fact is, the place is so close to Stirling and so accessible, that something needed to be done before the entire hillside ended up in the Forth.

So fair play, it'll channel the walkers onto the main route, giving them a nice path to walk on, (they were here first). It'll give the Strava knobs and GoPro knobs something robust to practise their skidding skills and obnoxious entitled fanny skills on, whilst tarring everyone else in the mountain biking community with their brush, (something they excel at). And finally, it'll give large parts of the hill a rest and chance to recover.

I'm actually kind of interested to see what the path will be like in a few years time, once it's bedded in and had a good few winters working at it. Might tempt me back onto the main line for the odd night ride, rather than the alternatives that I currently use! 🙂

[quote=Beagleboy ]I've been walking and riding up and down there for decades and have witnessed, like many others, the way that the trail has seriously degraded over the last 10 years. The 'sad and boggy' bit is in a particularly hideous state due to misguided attempts at 'trail maintenance' and folk riding there when it's way too wet.
I rarely ride the main route now, as on most nice dry days, the path is really busy with walkers and a new breed of Strava knobs who appear hell bent on leathering it down the hill, scattering everyone before them while they film themselves on their GoPros. The fact is, the place is so close to Stirling and so accessible, that something needed to be done before the entire hillside ended up in the Forth.
So fair play, it'll channel the walkers onto the main route, giving them a nice path to walk on, (they were here first). It'll give the Strava knobs and GoPro knobs something robust to practise their skidding skills and obnoxious entitled fanny skills on, whilst tarring everyone else in the mountain biking community with their brush, (something they excel at). And finally, it'll give large parts of the hill a rest and chance to recover.
I'm actually kind of interested to see what the path will be like in a few years time, once it's bedded in and had a good few winters working at it. Might tempt me back onto the main line for the odd night ride, rather than the alternatives that I currently use!

So you've been walking up and down it for decades, but it's everyone else that's to blame for the erosion?

Heavy rain will soon help to return some fun with any luck.

Kind of my thoughts too, although only in salvaging something from this wreckage. My first time out on Dumyat was one of the best days on a bike I've had - such a nice, challenging trail with an almost alpine feel on a good day. If they don't smash down through the woods, and I can't see that happening, it'll still be worth riding (though maybe not the journey) and it will develop new lines and interest. I hope.

Bob, I'm actually astounded it took 28 posts for someone to post such moral outrage! Utter drivel, granted I've not been riding there as long as you, but I've never seen any issues with walkers or the large amount of hill runners, as there is good visibility on most of the hill and lots of line choices.

There will be plenty of close interaction now though, well done you.

don't recognise the bits that are getting smoothed out.

Beagleboy - Member
I've been walking and riding up and down there for decades and have witnessed, like many others, the way that the trail has seriously degraded over the last 10 years. The 'sad and boggy' bit is in a particularly hideous state due to misguided attempts at 'trail maintenance' and folk riding there when it's way too wet.

I rarely ride the main route now, as on most nice dry days, the path is really busy with walkers and a new breed of Strava knobs who appear hell bent on leathering it down the hill, scattering everyone before them while they film themselves on their GoPros. The fact is, the place is so close to Stirling and so accessible, that something needed to be done before the entire hillside ended up in the Forth.

So fair play, it'll channel the walkers onto the main route, giving them a nice path to walk on, (they were here first). It'll give the Strava knobs and GoPro knobs something robust to practise their skidding skills and obnoxious entitled fanny skills on, whilst tarring everyone else in the mountain biking community with their brush, (something they excel at). And finally, it'll give large parts of the hill a rest and chance to recover.

I'm actually kind of interested to see what the path will be like in a few years time, once it's bedded in and had a good few winters working at it. Might tempt me back onto the main line for the odd night ride, rather than the alternatives that I currently use!

poah - Member
don't recognise the bits that are getting smoothed out.

I've never once seen an altercation between a walker and biker. All very respectful.

there was a belter of a Go-Pro vid on Scotland MTB FB page a month or so back, where the poster got healthy abuse for terrorising kids on his way down 🙂

I've ridden Dumyat (and that's 4 in the past week)

Careful now, you'll feel the full moral wrath from mortally offended of Stirling (unless he's away eroding other parts of the hill, which is okay)...

Iain, A11y did rightly say, the odd muppet, that's not really an indication of how riding on the hill is day to day.

Greg - I have ridden it twice in last 6 weeks or so and while it was very busy, with both riders and walkers, both times, behaviour was fine (apart from one of our GMMBC 'guest riders' , but that's another story ... 8) )

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
That last image is horrific A11y.

But I have Ally. just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. You should talk to my cat. She buries her head into the corner of the cat box whenever we take her to the vet, but the vet still finds her! 😉

Bob, I'm very aware of the erosion I cause when I'm on any trail. That's why I tend to either avoid the most easily damaged trails in poor conditions, (I pretty much avoid Dumyat unless it's very dry or frozen solid), or walk, rather than ride through sensitive bits that I come across to minimise my impact. Don't blame me, it's that wishy-washy tree hugging Ecology degree that I blame.

Not four weeks ago I witnessed a group of about five riders coming down Dumyat on a busy Sunday afternoon with the lead rider fully kitted up in full face helmet, pads and Gopro. I was climbing up the rocky bit, just past the fence as they came down full tilt. I saw a wee kid land on his arse as he jumped out of the way of the lead bike when the guy locked his rear wheel on the gravelly bit before the drop. No harm done, but the family were well pissed off and I got the brunt of it. 😳

Also watched a Gopro video a month or two back,(do we still call them that?), of a guy descending the Yat that was posted on a facebook group that I subscribe to. In that video you can actually see a walker in a red jacket falling over as he scrabbles to get out of the way of the descending rider.

All I'm saying is that there are some right dicks out on bikes on that hillside at times and maybe this'll separate them from the folk that do respect each others enjoyment.

Just saying like.

Because of the rider/bike or the trail destruction?

The destruction, but yes, I was trying to avert my eyes from that Quadlink.... 😥 😆

All I'm saying is that there are some right dicks out on bikes on that hillside at times and maybe this'll separate them from the folk that do respect each others enjoyment.

One of either 2 things happen, either no one rides it and a very good local descent is gone, or folk still ride it and there's no room for walkers and riders.

Yes, We all agree on that, there are dicks everywhere. I can't correlate your thought building a new 'path' that will be faster for the odd bellend, and put everyone on the same 4ft of hillside will be better for this.

a11y - Member

It’s the first 400-500m of trail up from the access gate from the road, the top trail which veers up left just from the start. Doesn’t quite reach the plateau before the bog yet, but they’ve only just started Monday or yesterday and moved some distance already.

ah I don't come down that way.

there was a belter of a Go-Pro vid on Scotland MTB FB page a month or so back where the poster got healthy abuse for terrorising kids on his way down

there are two videos from Dumyat on there, mine and the site's owner. no kids where terrorised in either of those videos.

there was a belter of a Go-Pro vid on Scotland MTB FB page a month or so back, where the poster got healthy abuse for terrorising kids on his way down

Good old Lorne - prize bell-end

ah I don't come down that way.

No, nobody does, the point is where they are going, ie the full hill.

Beagleboy - sorry to tell you but you are wrong on all counts if you think this is an improvement.

whats main the issue here? is it that someone has made a scar on the landscape, or is it that some peoples enjoyment has been impacted on? The scar on the landscape issue is not relevant as the ever widening scar that ALL the users was causing was much worse than this. This looks shocking at the moment but once complete will erode a little and vegetate a little and fit in. If it had been left the ever widening scar would have led to loss of habitat and damage to the wetland and moorland ecosystems. The loss of enjoyment is surely only for one of the trail users (us). This will mean that my kids (wife) for one will enjoy walking up there more, so long as there is parking.. It will be no worse than the path up many other popular hills. Its a pitty that we have lost bits of a great decent, but there are others, there is a lot of Scotland which is just as good, which are not quite so busy with families and dogs on stupid long leads.

some peoples enjoyment has been impacted on

this is the root here. Well it was a root, now its a smooth path.

Well it was a root, now its a smooth path.

there is a lot of Scotland which is just as good

If you've got suggestions of natural trails that are as good and within such easy reach then I'd love to hear about them

there was a belter of a Go-Pro vid on Scotland MTB FB page a month or so back, where the poster got healthy abuse for terrorising kids on his way down

Good old Lorne - prize bell-end

Aye, I think that was the one. There was a plethora of posts on it describing his behaviour along those lines I recall 🙂

No, nobody does.

that's why I didn't recognise it

Until mountain bikers get organised and set up proper representative bodies then this sort of thing is going to keep happening (e.g. massive water bars/trail sanitisation in the Cairngorms).

I read one comment on Facebook on this asking for 'consultation' - but who would anyone consult with who could be seen as representative?

But then again MTBers would need to a) organise b) allow themselves to be organised c) stop expecting other people to do things for them including: taking their interests into account and; actually putting their hands in their deep pockets to support trail development - rather than asking the Government/Forestry Commission for hand outs.

They won't stop until the whole of the UK is flattened and tarmac'd over. The Tories will allow anyone to build houses anywhere as long as they've got loads of wonga and local councils seem determined to spunk their spare cash on sanitising every stretch of rural track to make it more 'accessible' with the hidden benefit of dealing with 'problem' mountain biking. Quite how all these 'pressed' public bodies find the cash for pointless crap like this is beyond me when they're forever moaning about cuts.

Sod 'em. Ride it all now or it'll be gone before you do!

I was up dumyat last night and the photos don't really show the horrific scale of the issue. They are using hundreds of tonnes of material for that path and it is at least 4 metres wide in places.

The new path/road is straight lining directly though natural crags and I can't quite see how one of the lower steep sections will last more than a winter because it is nearly 16% grade and being covered in loose gravel. It *looks* like the road is going to divert to the north around the natural spring/bog in the middle and it will be interesting to see how it gets to the top.

Also note that they are building paths around Cocksburn reservoir to the west of Dumyat.

Someone was talking about the various trailbuilding efforts at the boggy section (was not me). It is a natural spring, it is also a peat bog so it can only be ridden over in the summer. I'd ask all riders to follow the trail that snakes to the right (coming down) contouring round the hill before rejoining the main path.

There is some 2 key positives though;

1: the new path will help walkers and less able riders stay in one place rather than widening the existing trails because they can't ride it.

2: now they've provided loads of material, any loose material that erodes off the trail could be useful for improving other trails on dumyat.

Just to add: we are from the same area where the Murray's (tennis fame) are tarmacing over and building a golf course on another great set of trails.

Just to add: we are from the same area where the Murray's (tennis fame) are tarmacing over and building a golf course on another great set of trails.

what a world we live in where a threat to our sport can be a sour faced tennis dynasty building a golf (?!) course.

Until mountain bikers get organised and set up proper representative bodies then this sort of thing is going to keep happening (e.g. massive water bars/trail sanitisation in the Cairngorms).

I read one comment on Facebook on this asking for 'consultation' - but who would anyone consult with who could be seen as representative?

Same thing up here - the CNPA seem keen to restrict access to "protect the capercaillie" - the Ramblers have an organisation speaking to them, but who speaks to them for mountain biking?

building golf courses (a 6 hole golf course?!?) is a wheeze to get past the open access laws because golf courses have special dispensation in the act. It'll never be played on; it;s essentially a land barrier for a development of 19 "luxury' homes. There are also loose plans for a tennis academy; but the Murray's want that to be "publically funded".

For a bit of balance - the council came and surfaced parts of a trail near me and it's a massive improvement. They filled in what were basically big holes full of wet clay, and a trail that was unrideable is now decent.

Given how little money councils have I'm quite pleased.

If anyone knows Brimmond Hill in west Aberdeenshire, this used to have a brilliant washed out gully on the west facing side that was a riot to ride and where i cut my teeth when i started riding full suspension many moons ago. I still remember the horror of turning up after work one evening- after a 45 minute ride from the city centre, to find it completely flattened and filled in with a gravel path in its place virtually all the way to the summit. That was last time I ever rode there. I feel the OP's pain.

And one more thing, whilst people are whining 'it's no fair'.

In Scotland, under the Community Empowerment Act, 'communities of interest' (which would include a MTBers if there was such a locally representative body) have a right to request participation in planning and decision making carried out by public public bodies.

That, in some cases, where it is public money/public land, would be a way of dealing with these issues and getting the needs of MTBers considered alongside other groups (land owners, ramblers, disability access, [s]naturists[/s] naturalists etc.).

@ianbradbury - I've said before that joining up with the British Mountaineering Council (or whatever they recently changed their name to) and the Scottish equivalent would get better visibility of mountain biking and associated requirements. A lot of climbers and ex-climbers are now cyclists at least some of the time.

It'd be a lot better than yet another small advocacy group that's likely to get sidelined.

🙁

Worth pinging an email off to the local MSP? Probably futile I know but.....

Email sent....

Personally, I give it a wet winter until it's back and rocking!

Personally, I give it a wet winter until it's back and rocking!

I dunno Matt, Looks very different form the sanitisation on the likes of walna scar - basically chucking hardcore on top of bedrock - that will eventually wash off.

This looks like it's being dug into the hill.

For a bit of balance - the council came and surfaced parts of a trail near me and it's a massive improvement. They filled in what were basically big holes full of wet clay, and a trail that was unrideable is now decent.

Given how little money councils have I'm quite pleased.

That's not balance, that's comparing what was a brilliant, rocky descent with your boggy hole. Nothing like each other.

matt_outandabout - Member

Personally, I give it a wet winter until it's back and rocking!

Hopefully, bit concerned about what they'll do to deal with the rockiest parts above the fence though

Hopefully, bit concerned about what they'll do to deal with the rockiest parts above the fence though

I can't really see them doing anything on the bedrock sections Legend, more likely they'll build above or blow and bypass them.

Hopefully.

@Nobeerinthefridge - in deed, I'm hoping that they build to the north of the tourist path and build towards "thistles route". How will get the digger up there?

very sad to see this sort of thing happening, personally I think the rough/ruggedness of said tracks (wear and tear) adds to the experience for all concerned (unless its just a continuous bog of course)

has any one got any pics of it before? I have a vision of what I think it would look like in my head (never been anywhere near to ride it)

looks like it'll be way easier to climb and even better manual back down

Win win no?

You gnar shredding radsters can all manual your four thousand pound bicyles. right?

has any one got any pics of it before?

The section we just lost had some small drop offs (only up to 2ft high) but they were tricky because landing zone was often pointy rocks and the route is pretty fast at that point.

* the plans are being sent to us today

* more as we hear about it.

gwurk - Member

looks like it'll be way easier to climb and even better manual back down

Win win no?

You gnar shredding radsters can all manual your four thousand pound bicyles. right?

That awkward time of day before everyone on Ridemonkey wakes up 😉

In one of those really daft coincidences, I've just started reading this to my kids at bedtime:

[img] [/img]

This was a book that I first read when I was at primary school in the early 1980s and is one of my few remaining vestiges from a Scottish education. Seems very odd to see Dumyat mentioned as the top post on Singletrack on the following day. Hello to all of you from rainy Yorkshire 🙂

I've just had a quick look through the last few pages and it doesn't mention Strava segments at all, so perhaps it needs an updated edition for the 21st century 😉

(ps. It's a great book for young readers and is still well worth a read, 35 years after it was first released!)

Might as well laugh otherwise we'll all cry:

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4360/36227638384_b1318f8795_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4360/36227638384_b1318f8795_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

(Credit/skillz: Barry MacPherson)

😆

(Credit/skillz: Barry MacPherson)

Haha! he's just sent me that anaw!

Lol, cry, lol etc 🙁

The irony is rhe council put a post on facebook talking about Dumyat history on Monday...

Sad times indeed.

It will be ok in a couple of years and then after that it will erode into a complete mess that's no use to anyone.