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The noname wheels that came with my XC bike have gone out of true again and I'm looking for an upgrade. Merlin seem to have decent deals on X 1900 (with 370 hub) and XM 1700 (with 350 hub) and I'm trying to decide if it's worth the jump up to the better wheelset.
For:
350 is supposed to be a better hub, and reliability is my key concern. The 1700 are also 30mm internal width rather than 25mm.
Against:
The XM 1700s are £125 more, and I'd also have to replace the XD drive with a Microspline freehub body. Criticism of the 370 hubs seems to reference an older design but they are now Ratchet LN which is the same as the other designs (with no seal)?
Basically, for your typical non-competitive XC rider, will I see noticeable differences with the better hub and wider wheels?
370 is sealed just the seal is on the freehub not the hub shell. The ratchet bits are the same except 18t where 350s are now 36t. The front hubs are near identical. A lot of the weight difference will be in the rear hub and spokes (champion vs comp). Xm1700 has ratchet sl, this is hollowed out ratchet rings (no issue here) and a lighter freehub by using smaller bearings (though I think XD and microspline all have the smaller bearings). I'd go for the xm1700 as I suspect you'll feel the lower weight and you get the wider rim with no weight penalty.
XM rims will be a bit stronger. I have wheelsets with both hubs and apart from the initial pick up, can’t tell a difference. Ratchet LN usually come with an 18t ratchet which feels pretty laggy compared to the 36t. If you can afford it, I think the more expensive ones will be worth it in the long run.
Thanks for the tips. It looks like the XM 1700 is about the same weight as the X 1900 so part of the upgrade involves getting the extra width and strength "for free" weight-wise.
The 36t is also a bit louder than 18t right? I'm not a fan of noisy freehubs but as well as the slow engagement 18t might be a bit quiet for trail use where there's a benefit to alerting whoever may be around the next corner.
It's not really louder but more insistent. More teeth making less noise each. I think it's a more pleasant sound than the 18t.
IME the 1900 rims are singificantly more fragile than the 1700 series. I wouldnt go that way. The XM1700 is a 481 rim which are excellent.
I'm not a fan of noisy freehubs
Removing the freehub and lightly greasing the drive rings will make it quieter
If you're on the look out for deals, it's worth remembering that hub specs change over time; probably worth double checking what you're getting before buying. The 370s in my G1800s are the older 3 pawl design. 370s are now 18 tooth ratchet LN (I think that the tooth count in the 350s took a jump at this point too).
What PJay said, and they varied between OEM as well, I bought some Santa Cruz take offs and they came with 36t ratchets (and then picked up a HG freehub for singlespeeding for pennies in the CRC sale).
I don't think there's any notable quality/longevity difference between the hubs, it's just that 350's come in a standard spec, and 370's are whatever the brand wanted to spec. The parts aren't interchangeable but the seal being retained on the hub body isn't any different in practice to it being retained on the freehub.
The older 18t pawled hub sounds horrible, the 18t ratchet is only marginally better, the 36 just makes a pleasant buzz. Personally 18t is too clunky, you notice that it doesn't pickup. 36t is the point of diminishing returns, you notice the difference between that and things like Onyx or the silly 100+ poe designs, but it doesn't impact on the riding.
The parts aren't interchangeable
Some of the parts are interchangeable between ratchet and ratchet LN. The axle, internal spacers, ratchets, springs, ratchet ring from the hub shell are all interchangeable. Fairly certain the end caps are as well. The only bit that isn't is the freehub and even that kind of is in an emergency (you'd just have no seal). Bearings are also common.
The wheelset versions of DT ubs are quite different from the after market one. E.g. some of the 240 wheelset hubs appear to be the same shell as 180 hubs just without the ceramic bearings.
For the two sets the op is looking at the better rims and better spokes are the more important differences. As I said before the front hubs will likely be identical with different markings.
I've had this dilemma before and decided to go with the 350 hub. Very pleased with them and now have a few wheelsets running them.
I had the opposite problem to you... bought wheels with MS when I needed XDr. I'm pretty certain I still have the brand new and unused MS freehub (for the 350 hub). I'd happily swap my MS for your XDr.
I've had this dilemma before and decided to go with the 350 hub. Very pleased with them and now have a few wheelsets running them.
I had the opposite problem to you... bought wheels with MS when I needed XDr. I'm pretty certain I still have the brand new and unused MS freehub (for the 350 hub). I'd happily swap my MS for your XDr.
I think that's made my mind up for me - I'll get the XM 1700 then let's swap the freehubs?
The bearings in the 350 hubs also last longer than in the 370 IME.
I'm really sorry, but I think I've misremembered the free hub that I had... Just checked and it's off a 350 hub, but it's 11 speed and not MS as I recalled
OP. If you do buy the xr1700 and find yourself looking on eBay for the microspline freehub there is a seller selling some as if they are the real thing but they are most definitely fakes. The pictures are on a dark wooden surface, seller is called jdmparts-uk. Avoid at all costs, they do not fit and are poor quality.
Don’t like noisy hubs?
Clearly not in the selection you’ve listed but my Stan’s hubs are fairly quiet.
If you’re feeling spendy then KOM have a new ‘sprag’ hub that is allegedly silent. https://singletrackmag.com/forum/bike-forum/peak-torque-new-bicycle-hub-design/
The Syntace wheels at Sport & Leisure are a better wheel set for less money.
https://sportandleisure.com/products/syntace-w28i-straight-pull-29-boost-wheelset-sram-xd-driver
The 1900 are sleeved rims for starters.
I like the 350s hubs though as I have them on my Rivals but the Syntace hubs feel and look far more expensive, the machining is quite incredible.
The 1900 are sleeved rims for starters.
Moot because I think everyone agrees the 1700 has the better rims for other reasons in this case. But it's not an issue in the real world. In the old days welded and machined rims worked better with rim brakes, but even then most would always tend to still have a slight wobble at the join. Plenty of expensive rims are sleeved and plenty of cheap rims are welded.
And case in point, I've upgraded the front wheel on my commuter to a welded DT rim that now makes an absolute racket because the spot welded tang that held them together before they were fully welded has presumably come loose and clangs with every rotation upto about 12-14mph before centripetal forces take over 😂. The pinned rear is still completely silent.
The Syntace wheels at Sport & Leisure are a better wheel set for less money.
only if you are on rs forks and sram xd cassette,
not sure how easy non torque ends caps for the front are to source and freehub seems to be hg available for €60 + shipping+ Brexit tax and cant see microspline anywhere, otherwise I'd have snapped up a set!
I'm really sorry, but I think I've misremembered the free hub that I had... Just checked and it's off a 350 hub, but it's 11 speed and not MS as I recalled
I'll buy this or swap for a SRAM fit XD (new and unused), assuming it'll work for MTB as it has Road written on it. PM'd you.
first set of dt wheels for me this year in the shape of some 1700s bought from the classifieds here. haven't had to do anything to them yet but have been pleased with them.