[Closed] DT Swiss 240 hub query - shimano 10/11 speed

Does the freehub spin without the cassette fitted? Is it an 11 speed freehub (should be marked as such)? Are the end caps correct (these are specific to 10 or 11 speed freehubs)?

The 11 speed road is clearly marked as such normally. If that were the case the cassette would be loose out of the bike.

New or used 11spd driver body?
Bad freehub bearings will appear to spin fine until you apply preload in the frame.

Also. The microspline and 9/10/11spd and XD 12mm end caps are all different. Make sure you use the correct one.

12-142 would suggest MTB use? I have 240 hubs on my MTB bike and switched from a 10 speed xt cassette to an 11 speed XT cassette set up without any thought and have had no problems and used both systems for over a year on same hub/wheel/end cap. Changed nowt but the cassette (and derailleurs obs!)

I assume you mean the hub won't freewheel when the axle is under compression (by the bolt through / frame)?

Is it 100% locked or does it rotate a bit if you force it? Is there any chance the axle is snapped?

Make sure the conical springs are facing the right direction (Narrow diameter towards the ratchets)?

The only other thing I can think is that the axle spacer is either in the wrong place or is the wrong height, or perhaps the axle itself isn't sitting in the right position against the hub bearings.

If someone gave me that hub with those symptoms and all the bearings and internals seemed okay the next thing I would do is check the bearings are fully pressed into the hub body and freehub. Only needs to be a smidge off.

If you don't wanna mess around with it too much it's at least worth asking the seller if they have recently fitted new bearings.

No markings on the freehub and aren’t 10 and 11speed same width cassettes?

Mines the left side hub

shimano HG mtb is 9/10/11. Road 11spd is a different with to mtb 9/10/11.
All road 11spd shimano drivers say road 11spd afaik

It's an mtb hub to be clear
It appears that there is no deal between hub shell and free hub (part 5 on tech docs) I assume this is going to cause the freehub to bind as it is too close the the hub shell?

240/350 hubs have the seal set into the hub shell. Is this what you don't see?
Seal wouldn't serve as a mechanical limited to how far the freehub body can slide on. However, if this hub was serviced prior to sale and had a new driveside bearing, it could be that the shim ring wasn't put back in. You can tell if this is missing as if you look into the hub drive side with the stars and spring removed, the shim should partially hide the bearing seals. if you see all of the bearing seal, there's no shim. Shim sits under the drive ring. Its late though and I cant figure if this would cause spacing issues.
Other things could be that the star ratchet spacer (slides onto the axle) is mushroomed having been over tightened, allowing over compression of the hub when assembled and binding.

I've had a hub where I've thrown in a cheap bearing. before installation the bearing is fine. Installed its notchy and stiff, after removal its fine again. Presumably tolerance issue and squashing the outer race too far. perhaps the bearings are doing this once side loaded.

There is a possibility that when you removed the old freehub you left the seal/shim behind on the hub body. When you put the new freehub on with its seal/shim it spins fine without a cassette but locks up with one fitted. Ask me how I know that and how long it took to figure out...

The hub is grey and when I remove the freehub I see no black seal in the hub shell or on the freehub so assume this is missing

The spacer isn’t mushroomed

The bearings have not been replaced so are correctly seated

Does it work in the bike with the cassette off?

The seal sits flush into the body over the ratchet ring. I think it is possible to remove it seperately however its is firmly pressed in and normally comes out when the ratchet ring is removed. No idea how you'd get it out without destroying it (other than ratchet removal). It does not look like the seal on say a pro 4, more like a washer.

Edit, just seen bearback posted pretty much the same!

Works fine off the bike
Works fine until the last 2 full turns on the axle

I cannot see any form of seal between hub and freehub - in fact I see a gap

I’ll do some pics in a bit

.....

Click the link for pics

is it the seal missing or some other issue that is causing it to bind??

well, for one, it needs cleaning and re-greasing 😉 Theres no point reassembling it in that condition.

The seal is right there. the black bit set into the hub body with a groove in it seated up against the drive ring. poke it with a pick tool.. its rubber.

Shims looks present too.
Have you checked the freehub bearings by hand? Do both hub bearing inner races turn with the axle? no notchyness?

I'm still going with mushroomed spacer sleeve. There appears to be a more gap between axle and ID of sleeve than normal. Its also showing interference wear.

Can you take the ratchets out and photograph their teeth (the ones that mesh together). It's probably not what's causing the hub to bind but looking closely if I'm not mistaken those teeth look chipped.

How would the spacer be mushroomed? can it be bought as a spare? how can i check it?

Don't know how it happens but it can. St John street cycles sell them as a spare, it's not expensive. One of mine recently would not move easily on the axle. Brand new one was perfect.

I’d wager that the shim ring wasn’t seated properly under the shim nut. Hard to spot but if you take the freehub and loose parts of their washer on top of the centre bearing won’t be concentric with the axle.

More pics here
https://photos.app.goo.gl/o6jnMMDRqmVCHbV7A

@shaggy look in the pics I think you are right

I think after watching the dt Swiss video the spacer is dodgy as it took a vice to remove it from the axle whereas on the video it slid off with ease!!

I'd just spotted that in the new pictures. Can you move it back into the correct place? Hope it's not bent as if it is you'll need to replace (means ratchet ring removal).

Those ratchets are a mess. I recently bought a hub that looked like that inside. I ended up replacing the DS bearing, shim, seal, spacer and ratchet rings.

You might be able to pry the shim washer over over. If not, unfortunately, the ring nut (not shim nut like I said up there) needs to be undone. Really you need the special tool.

@nixie can you put it into terms for a simpleton step by step
What do I need to buy/do?
Thanks

Should there be a washer in the freehub?

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/spline-ex1501-freebie-sticking/

I'll have a go later when I'm working. TBH though unless you got a great deal of be talking to the seller.

£100 for the pair

Had this before.. the splines need a clean. Use an o-ring pick or such like to get the rubbish out. If it's not that you have the wrong end cap. First time it happened to me the shop mechanic couldn't work it out and neither could i, it was bit of grit.

@iamanobody These are I think the internals you'll need;

• Shim between ring nut and bearing: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/dt-swiss-spacer-shim-28-20-x-05mm-v2-hbdt822/
• Seal: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/dt-swiss-seal-for-ratchet-freehub-body-hub-shell-for-240-350-hbdt865/
• Spacer: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/dt-swiss-internal-spacer-shim-for-240-350-ratchet-rear-hubs-hbdt820/
• Ratchet service kit (choose between 18t,24t,36t,52t depending on your budget). These come with the special grease.

You'll also need a ring nut tool. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Hub-Lock-Ring-Removal-Installation-Tool-Fit-For-DT-Pawls-Star-Ratchet/353023768493 Get one like this that will take a socket.

As your having the ring nut out I'd be tempted to replace at least the drive side bearing as well.

Yes this won't be a cheap exercise (especially the ratchet rings).

@nixie - thanks buddy. What about getting the seal in - does that need a tool?

Technically yes but you can use the freehub body.

@nixie - all parts ordered thank you buddy - really appreciate it 🙁

All bits arrived - took apart - cleaned - put together methodically - still the same.
Took the hub bearings out and replaced them - bit of a struggle using various sockets. The nds end cap is binding when inserted 😭 wtf next???

So it's all fine till the NDS end cap goes in? Did the lock ring come out ok?

That's my spacer bet out then.
I'm going to go back to bad freehub bearings. The end cap is what's adding preload (once tight in the dropouts).
If it's binding when installed in the axle but before the wheel is installed then perhaps a bent axle?
Can you try with a different freehub?

Can you add a photo of the nds end cap?

The nds end cap bonds in the hole so have ordered a new pair
If it’s not that then the only other thing is the freehub bearings which feel ok by hand??

Binds not bonds

Where are you based? If your in/near Southampton I have a spare free hub and brand new 12mm end caps you could use to test.

Oooop north near Sheffield

Lock ring came out fine, bearings changed, new end caps ordered a the nds is very rough when it goes in

Hopefully that will sort it. FIngers crossed.

I had a very similar issue. It turned out the axle was very subtly bent. A new axle cured the problem. I went through most of the things you have done before I realised.

All bearings replaced all internals replaced, new end caps, still no joy! Without the the freehub body on it and the end caps installed the total length not 142mm with the ebd caps fully installed.
Am I right in thinking there are two axle lengths?

How long should the axle be without end caps?
Doing my head in

@nixie

Coincidentally I've just discovered the bearings in one of my rears are shot so I'll be able to measure the axle when it's apart.

The loose x12 axle I have here is 115mm

I’m flummoxed

Sorry to bring it up again, but have you checked the axle is true? It only needs to be a fraction out. Roll it over a flat surface at eye level and see if the long end varies in height as it rotates
It is relatively easy to bend slightly as I know to my cost and as I said above the symptoms I had were identical

off to check that now

Axle dead straight!

Ive assembled the axle and tried it in the frame (see pic below) and torqued it up - all works fine.

I had a very similar epic to this just before lockdown with freehub seizing on the final tightening of the axle. After much exploring and repeated measuring (with a very experienced and puzzled bike mechanic) we found it was due a tiny sliver of alloy thread from the ratchet ring, that was hidden when the ratchet ring was out, but as you screwed it in, the sliver lodged between the ratchet ring and spacer beneath, causing the ring to seat a fraction higher. This is turn caused freehub binding.
They are built to such fine tolerances!

BLOODY WELL GONE AND SORTED IT 🙂
Back to bits, slowly/carefully put it together and noticed the hub seal was not seated totally square this time, judicious whack with a hammer and bobs your uncle!!

effin hell the tolerances these are made to is miniscule!!

😀 glad it's sorted.