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This was brought up by a friend of mine recently; he insisted that within 5 years all road bikes would have them.
His argument seemed to be based on road bikes following the mtb trend for faddy unnecessary things such as disc brakes etc, and getting a lower descending position.
My own opinion is that whilst some biffers may put them on their road bikes (my mate has one fitted on his road bike), the weight penalty, and the fact you really dont ever need to drop your seat to descend will mean they are never adopted.
Am I overlooking something that dropper post would enable and improve on a road bike?
I reckon your friend is right for the reasons they suggest.
For a lot of people the descents make the ride, especially big rides in the Alps and Pyrenees and I've seen a few comments on here and the gcn guys saying that droppers can improve descending on a road bike. They are already being specced on gravel bikes and as they get lighter and more reliable they'll start to trickle into road bikes.
I'm not personally convinced by the benefits, but I think it'll happen.
Can't see it happening for anyone outside of an alps descender as there is no benefit whatsoever in any other scenario on the road. And even for an alps descender the benefit can't be that great.
Your also have pretty stupid mate if he sees disc brakes as faddy and unnecessary.
Spesh are already fitting them to top end (£8k) diverges.
I’ve often thought a 2-3” drop would be good for descents on road bikes.
Obvs the purists will hate them, but for normal people, they will be the next disk brake, and will become standard.
Am I overlooking something that dropper post would enable and improve on a road bike?
Tail whips. 🤙
Descending Hardknott I reckon a dropper would definitely come in handy.
Beyond that I'm not sure it would get much use for purely road riding.
On a Gravel bike yrs, cant see point for road bike
THey only have to make them out of some new shiny carbon with a fancy name, then all the Tri athletes will buy them.
The weight is not an issue on pro bikes as they are often speccing up to meet the weight limit, so they would have the space in there for a couple of hundred grams for a dropper without too much issue.
And I suspect it would enable them to get into better aero positions for descending (cf the crouch on the top tube currently employed) as well as improve the handling on twisty descents.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them appearing in the next few years somewhere.
I expect to see them on some gt bikes first they have the weight to play with and the aero need for a safer position than tucked in the top tube.
It will happen right after everyone is riding e-mtbs.
I can't think of a situation where a dropper seatpost would be useful on a road bike.
Innovation is a dirty word in road biking. If roadies stuck to their guns they’d still be on race bikes from the 1930’s (as a few actually are). But carbon worked, wider tyres are working, disk brakes will be accepted, just a matter of time, and judging by the way a lot of racers descend sat on their top tubes in a really unstable and ungainly position, which does bring gains, then dropper clearly will be a valuable addition. The weight penalties are utterly irrelevant as most race bikes are able to come in under the UCI weight so some are already carrying ballast. May as well make that ballast functional. Also taking on more weight is fine so long as that additional weight brings performance gains e.g. aero gains with heavier but faster aero wheels and frames.
So once you take you’re fingers out of your ears and stop singing “la la la la la la la la la” at the top of your voice and look on these proven innovations with an objective eye then the benefits of them become clear. This has more to do with Roadies not liking those pesky mountain bikers and not wanting to have anything to do with their ‘un pure’ technological innovations’ than the actual innovations themselves.
AXS finally makes it possible to fit one neatly on a SRAM Road bike.
The beauty of road bikes is their simplicity - have a seat post that wiggles all the time that gets used <1% of the time would be an absolute PITA.
His argument seemed to be based on road bikes following the mtb trend for faddy unnecessary things such as disc brakes etc
I wouldn't say faddy and unnecessary, but I would say overcomplicated and negligibly useful...
I've seen pros already using adapted droppers with 30mm drop, just for the aero benefits on descents, but for me I'd have to weigh up the cost+ extra weight+ inevitable extra maintenance vs. slight aero advantage. It would be an easy victory for sticking with a conventional post.
Your also have pretty stupid mate if he sees disc brakes as faddy and unnecessary.
Colour me stupid then, they're definitely unnecessary for me, and also fall foul of the cost/weight/faff/noise vs. marginally improved performance balance. I'd have rim brakes on my gravel bike if I could...
His argument seemed to be based on road bikes following the mtb trend for faddy unnecessary things such as disc brakes etc
Suspension forks? Rear suspension? Those sort of faddy unnecessary things?
Silk Roads didn't really take off, did they.
On the other hand.. Cannondale's new adventure bike thingy has a dropper post with drop bars, so it's close.
I can’t think of a situation where a dropper seatpost would be useful on a road bike.
You need to try harder
Colour me stupid then,
Will do. If you and your friend think disc brakes on road bikes are a fad then you have really got it wrong (A fad suggests they will be temporary and all bikes will be back to rim brakes in future)
Unnecessary is more of a debate as I would also be happy with rim brakes if I used brakes.
As for droppers, need to come up with use cases where they are beneficial on the road. So far there is one - pros getting into better positions when descending in pro races where seconds count.
Going to be a tough sell on my road bikes with integrated seat posts. I don’t believe any position offered will be more aero than sitting on the top tube. Unless it has a massive amount of drop and a very compact frame.
My TT saddle position is about 1.5 cm lower than my road position for aero reasons, so I could imagine a possible scenario where one wants to get into a slightly lower position on a solo breakaway (see Sunday for example) But that reason is not the reason for mtb dropper posts. It won’t be for descending.
A dropper post that also moves the saddle forward would be a better innovation. There is a post that can do this, but it’s not pretty.
This has more to do with Roadies not liking those pesky mountain bikers and not wanting to have anything to do with their ‘un pure’ technological innovations’ than the actual innovations themselves.
Pot, kettle black. 😉
A lot of the "inertia" in road racing is that with things like neutral service cars and bikes you have to have something approaching a standard - no point in taking a bike with disk brakes if all the spares being carried are for rim brakes. There's also the inertia, read that as a two tonne anchor, of the UCI rules.
At the amateur level much as in mountain biking and many other sports things are very fashion led by what the pros use. If the pro peloton moved over to disk brakes en masse then within a couple of years there'd hardly be a club rider with rim brakes.
Back to dropper posts on road bikes - possibly for long alpine descents but for most riders that isn't that common a scenario. Even on steep, 25%+, descents here in the Dales I've never felt that the saddle is getting in the way and could do with a dropper. A lockable suspension seatpost on the other hand ...
cool, not seen that before! It’s not even what I’d call a particularly expensive bike, and it makes tons of sense for gravel. Like it.On the other hand.. Cannondale’s new adventure bike thingy has a dropper post with drop bars, so it’s close.
If it makes descending safer while facing I’m sure the UCI will allow it. As has been mentioned, there’s effectively no weight penalty as they can already make bikes way under the limit.
Nah, will never be mainstream. Very marginal benefit for a big weight penalty.
Descending sitting down seems to work well enough.
Maybe one that's actuated under the saddle so it could be swapped on easily for anyone nervous about super-steep descending, but I've only done a few descents out of thousands of rides where I might have wanted one.
I used a dropper on a CX bike for the 3 peaks – the handling benefit there is obvious but what I wasn’t expecting was the on road benefit. Even on a mild road descent, dropper down tucked in, I reached the highest speeds I’d recorded with the least effort. Froome achieved a similar position down on the cross bar but I suspect it would be more stable and easier position to pedal with a dropper.
If pro teams haven’t evaluated droppers in wind tunnels then frankly they are not doing their job – the gains were easily recorded. Bikes can already be made well under UCI weight limits so it should be possible to add with virtually no penalty.
Descending sitting down seems to work well enough.
What kind of an attitude is that? For a racer, any possibility of gaining seconds should be examined. And going by my experiences on a steep angled MTB getting the saddle out of the way makes a big difference to security and the ability to eke out more grip.
It should be pretty easy to test out anyway - do the same descent with the saddle up and dropped via the traditional method, and compare times.
So once you take you’re fingers out of your ears and stop singing “la la la la la la la la la” at the top of your voice and look on these proven innovations with an objective eye then the benefits of them become clear. This has more to do with Roadies not liking those pesky mountain bikers and not wanting to have anything to do with their ‘un pure’ technological innovations’ than the actual innovations themselves.
It's about whether the technology is useful, not whether it's "MTB" tech. I've been using disc brakes on my road bike for 16 years now. Practical and very useful.
I can see that droppers are useful for a lot of people off road. There will be a few droppers fitted to road bikes (there's a long tradition of experimenting in this way; Mapei were running suspension forks for Paris Roubaix 26 years ago). I don't think droppers will be adopted en-masse because they simply don't do anything useful for road riding.
Descending sitting down seems to work well enough.
What kind of an attitude is that? For a racer, any possibility of gaining seconds should be examined.
The OP's pal said "all road bikes within five years".
Which is extremely fanciful.
Additionally, I'm not really into exploring the limits of grip on my road bike - as the consequences of going beyond the limit are so terrifying compared to MTB.
wobbliscott
Member
Innovation is a dirty word in road biking. If roadies stuck to their guns they’d still be on race bikes from the 1930’s
oh dear
All of the Mavic neutral service spare bikes in the TdF etc. have dropper posts, so they are way more futuristic than the virtually prototype bikes used by the teams/riders.
Function not fashion, too.
Anyway, if your friend is so convinced that ALL road bikes will have dropper posts in 5 years is he willing to make a bet on it? I would be happy to put down a £20K bet with them.
I think you can pretty much guarantee that "all road bikes" (meaning new manufactures) won't yet have disc brakes in 5 years time, let alone a dropper post.
they simply don’t do anything useful for road riding.
Of course they do. More aero and lower weight for cornering. These are obvious benefits. Using a dropper is going to be far more stable than sitting on the top tube. Just watch them with their arse over the back and tell me the saddle's not in the way..
If, on a steep downhill hairpin, you don't feel there's too much weight on the front wheel then your understanding of cornering is completely different to mine.
I'm not trying to be funny, but at what point do speed gains made on descending get mitigated by the increased risk of serious accident?
I was talking to a coach in the wake of my own accident, and he explained to me that a good number of riders in the pro peloton are themselves nervous about descending, and that outside of competition, will not bother trying to gain additional speed on descents.
If you're not on a closed road, yet you're able to achieve speeds of 80+ kms/h, even good bike handling skills aren't going to save you in the event of an oncoming car crossing the line, or an unexpected bump or pothole gets in the way. And it seems to me that this is not even a low likelihood.
In light of the possibility of a dropper post contributing to better positioning for a descent and therefore higher speeds, I can't imagine widespread benefit.
at what point do speed gains made on descending get mitigated by the increased risk of serious accident?
Surely that would be the point at which the speed gains can be made
-
without
the increased risk of an accident.
An example would be discs and wider tyres. Both of these allow later, and better/safer braking, which translates to faster overall speeds when descending.
So, if a dropper is more aero/faster AND allows better control at those speeds, why not?
Hopefully the UCI will ban them
There's enough cheating going on in road racing already.
so I could imagine a possible scenario where one wants to get into a slightly lower position on a solo breakaway
Surely any aero benefit would be offset by the fact pedalling efficiency would be affected? GCN did a test, and sitting on the bar was noticeably slower for this very reason.
I'm struggling to see the benefit myself. If it was a benefit I think pro teams looking for marginal gains would have done it already.
In light of the possibility of a dropper post contributing to better positioning for a descent and therefore higher speeds, I can’t imagine widespread benefit.
Well for me it would enable better weight position and hence give more security. So I'd be safer.
Well for me it would enable better weight position and hence give more security. So I’d be safer.
You say that..and it may make you feel safer. But If you feel safer you'll probably go faster, which brings with it it's own dangers. More likely to overcook a bend, lose grip etc etc.
If you have the discipline to not push any faster than you do at the moment I get your point, but in reality for most folks it'll just mean you crash at a higher speed, and probably more often.
Surely any aero benefit would be offset by the fact pedalling efficiency would be affected? GCN did a test, and sitting on the bar was noticeably slower for this very reason.
That's where the science and wind tunnels and the like comes in.
If by being 3% more efficient due to being aero, you give up 2% in pedalling efficiency, then being 2% less pedalling efficient isn't actually a disadvantage.
If Froome's sitting on his top tube and pedalling as opposed to just sat, or pedalling with 'full' efficiency in his normal position, you can bet it's been tested and validated somewhere. They don't do anything on a whim nowadays (which may be a pity, YMMV)
The "aero advantage" people are suggesting is for riders freewheeling at terminal velocity on a long, Alpine straight. Even for pro riders that's an edge case, and they can get lower by perching on the top tube, so why would they use a dropper that would leave them sitting higher? If you are not freewheeling, any significant saddle drop is going to limit the effectiveness of your pedalling, so it's a no again. If the aero advantage of pedalling with a lower saddle does actually outweigh the bio mechanical impact, there's no point in a dropper and you would just use a lower saddle all the time!
This just won't happen. The road cycling market is bigger than the alpine descents.
I race road bikes in the UK and previously overseas. I can honestly say I have never once seen an amateur sitting on his top tube and pedalling. The % of time when this would be useful is so small it is almost unrealistic. The only people who are sat on the top tube in a descent are a small break away or an attack. The other 140 riders will not need or want a dropper post.
This may be useful in a very small % of races for a very small % of riders. No sprinter or domestique who just wants to complete a mountain stage and sit in the pack is going to want to have additional weight with very limited benefit for him. Thinking of the Belgium classics, there is zero need or benefit for a dropper post. Northern France early season races? Nope. Flat sprint stages? Nope again not needed.
I've never once thought on a road bike that I need to get my backside lower. Thinking of the descents I do regularly in the UK, not once have I wanted to drop my saddle. If I'm doing in excess of 55mph, I want stability and predictability 100% of the time. I can't even think of one Northern European road where this could be more useful than a saddle being in the exact position I want it in all the time.
If this does happen to any level, it would only be the odd rider in the pack with it. Everyone else will be too busy thinking about the weight penalty and the power penalty of the seat not going into the exact position at the exact time it was needed.
The one thing roadies do, especially those who race, is moan about things not being precisely as they should be. A seat has to be millimetre accurate, not roughly in the right place but in exactly the right place.
I guess part of this is down to the TV coverage of the big mountain days. You may see a one or two man breakaway trying to eek out every advantage possible, however the rest of the riders will either be coasting home or will be using the advantage of being in the group. Give someone 15 seconds on a descent as generally they will be caught on the flat or the next climb.
If the aero advantage of pedalling with a lower saddle does actually outweigh the bio mechanical impact, there’s no point in a dropper and you would just use a lower saddle all the time!
Most pedalling will be done on flat or uphill, where speeds would be in the 40's probably, lower for uphill. Aerodynamics is important at these speeds, for sure. However as drag increases proportional to square of velocity, the drag at say 80kph is way higher and therefore being aero at high speed is more important.
So you could well be right for maybe 90+% of the race. But for that other 10%, being both aero AND still able to pedal effectively might provide the marginal gains that teams are looking for. And if there's no weight penalty, which in an era of adding weight to hit the limit is the case - why not use something functional instead of lead shot.
If the pro peloton moved over to disk brakes en masse then within a couple of years there’d hardly be a club rider with rim brakes
Hardly is now really. I havent seen many/any club riders buy a new non disc bike for a couple of years. Plenty of older bikes running rim brakes, like mine, but few new ones. This is one area regularly roadies are different from racers.
10% of a race being more aero on a downhill? So a 5 hour stage race, 30 minutes of that are descending where there is the aero benefit of having a dropper post? I'd give 2 minutes max in a stage race. The only aero benefit will be to the break. There would be no aero benefit for a group of riders in a pack descending on the top tube or with their saddle lowered. They are in a big group at 50/60 mph - they want stability and predictability. A single rider or a duo, yep that I can see, but not everyone else.
There will be a weight penalty, the weights that get added to under the bottle bottle cages are in the area of grams not 100s of grams. My Trek Emonda SLR with full dura ace, Bontrager Aelous Carbon Wheels, carbon bars and Look Keo Carbon pedals was 6.7kgs, add power meter / Garmin and GPS transponder and the bikes are at the minimum weight. I do think the weight limit will come down before we see dropper posts on road bikes as a matter of routine.
. But for that other 10%, being both aero AND still able to pedal effectively might provide the marginal gains that teams are looking for.
If you can pedal effectively and be more aero with the saddle dropped, why would you ever raise the saddle again?
If you can pedal effectively and be more aero with the saddle dropped, why would you ever raise the saddle again?
Because it's not true 100% of the time, it's in certain circumstances
Similar level of relevance to suspension on road bikes IMO.
Not at all relevant to the huge majority of riders, arguably a benefit for events like P-R but still it's rare for the pros to use it.
TBH there's probably a better case for that than dropper posts. And we're more likely to see them on the bikes of anxious middle-aged punters than pros.
Sitting on your top tube is frigging scary. Sitting on a slammed saddle is not much higher and much more secure.
I reckon it won't be long before we see someone using one on a grand tour. Then I'm sure if it's positive it'll spread.
Similar level of relevance to suspension on road bikes IMO.
Not at all relevant to the huge majority of riders, arguably a benefit for events like P-R but still it’s rare for the pros to use it.
TBH there’s probably a better case for that than dropper posts. And we’re more likely to see them on the bikes of anxious middle-aged punters than pros.
I dont agree, a bit of suspension is good on a road bike for a lot of middle aged non racing nodders like me. Spesh Roubaix uses some to good effect. I think that will increase more than dropper posts, dropper post would be no use at all for my road riding, I'm usually trying to go slower downhill not faster!!
The “aero advantage” people are suggesting is for riders freewheeling at terminal velocity on a long, Alpine straight.
No suggestion about the "aero advantage" so no exclamation marks required...its fact. but I take your point it not necessarily for normal recreational riders, but even for recreational riders being lower in the saddle while freewheeling down a twisty alpine road lowers centre of gravity, makes the bike more stable, increases grip and ultimately safety, so beneficial in that way...just like long low and slack...just without the long and slack...though wait a few years and LLS geo might just hit the road bike market!!
And sat on the top tube pedalling isn't that comfy or efficient because they have to move quite far forward to clear the saddle, with a dropper they can get low, keep their weight better centred on the bike, pedal with more efficiency and be more stable on the bike. On the MTB i'll sometimes not bother raising the saddle and sit and pedal over a short section of trail linking two down hill sections....just being lazy if the legs are a bit tired, but it's doable and you can still get plenty of power in that seated crouched position with a bit of practice. Also very handy if you're reverb is in need of a service and refuses to return back up to the raised position half way around the ride.
Clearly if droppers were going to be integrated into road bikes the frame design would have to change to accommodate.
I dont agree, a bit of suspension is good on a road bike for a lot of middle aged non racing nodders like me. Spesh Roubaix uses some to good effect. I think that will increase more than dropper posts, dropper post would be no use at all for my road riding, I’m usually trying to go slower downhill not faster!!
You just did agree with me!
But perhaps I didn't word myself very clearly.
Member
...even for recreational riders being lower in the saddle while freewheeling down a twisty alpine road lowers centre of gravity, makes the bike more stable, increases grip and ultimately safety
recreational riders actually getting in the drops would have exactly the same effect 🙂
You just did agree with me!
But perhaps I didn’t word myself very clearly.
Oh good, I like agreeing!!
I reckon it won’t be long before we see someone using one on a grand tour.
Bindun. First page.
Lots of speculation on this thread from people who appear to have never raced a road bike in anger. The majority of the time you're in a bunch and you get way more benefits from being in a group than sticking your nose in the wind. Whilst there will be marginal benefits on fast descents there actually aren't many places in the UK where you're going to be racing descents at over 70kph where you run out of gears and need to rely on a tuck - it's simply too dangerous racing at those speeds on roads shared with traffic. Even on big descents like the Galibier and Tourmalet where you have long straights where you can reach 100kph it's about getting your front-end narrow and stable - an aero helmet and non-flappy clothing probably has more benefit that how much your ar$e is in the air.
Half the middle-aged-spreaders I’ve seen riding road bikes for the last decade seem to already be using dropper posts and they’ve forgotten to put them back up again.
Given how the roadies like it all a bit French then a quick look at google translate says
compte-gouttes
Stick that in your bidon and smoke it 😉