Just seen a post on Instagram where someone went out with their club on a “drop ride” and got dropped.
Is this actually a thing that roadies enjoy & plan to do, either getting left behind or trying to leave others behind?
Doesn't sound much fun… 😲
I don’t think the plan is to necessarily drop people, but if the ride is set at a certain pace & you can’t keep up then you will get dropped.
Sounds like a Scratch group ride, just with a more obvious name...
Isn’t it more ‘there’s a planned pace for the ride and if you can’t keep it up come prepared to make your own way home’, usually for serious-face training rides? While it definitely could be horrible I don’t really see it being a problem assuming everyone knows the deal and it’s not straying into “oh, yeah, we last saw Geoff heading into that ditch but he couldn’t get back on so hey ho”.
MTB equivalent would be something like letting people know up front that the ride was going to be really steep/techs/jumpy/boggy and if they weren’t sure they should come prepared to get home?
Fairly standard for a ‘proper’ training sort of ride (e.g. a chainy). Group works together but if you fall off the back it’s up to you. Next time, stay on a bit longer.
If you aren’t happy getting dropped, then it’s a social ride you’re after
While it definitely could be horrible I don’t really see it being a problem assuming everyone knows the deal and it’s not straying into “oh, yeah, we last saw Geoff heading into that ditch but he couldn’t get back on so hey ho”.
The only people I’ve ever seen have an issue with it tend to be in possession of a very expensive bike, and a very fragile ego.
I've never heard it phrased like that but yes - if rides are categorised as 'No Drop' then I guess there can be drop ones as well. There used to be a young lad with the club and him and his 'guardian'* used to go out on the fast ride knowing he lacked the stamina to last but would hang on as long as he could and then when the wheels came off, he had someone to shepherd him home. If you're not a minor, no reason why you couldn't drop off after you're spent and find your own way back.
I've done it from a social ride when I was having a bad day even though the ride would have waited, I was just as happy to drop to not compromise the rest of the group. TRhe fun's not in dropping or getting dropped but in riding as fast for as far as you can without then spoiling the ride for faster riders.
* not his Dad, a few of the fast riders were happy to perform the role so he could get a decent paced ride
Our group one rides are drop rides. You hang on for as long as you can. If you’re dropped, you’ll be swept up by group two, which is a non-drop ride since we all ride the same course.
The definition is helpful. You know what you are in for and better know the route! <br />The converse is also helpful, my club run ‘no drop’ rides which means no-one gets left behind, no matter how slow, and any mechanicals means several people will pitch in and help(sometimes all at the same time:)). This builds confidence and enjoyment in newer riders, and everyone gets accompanied safely home.
Sure - classic chain gang / bash etiquette. Sometimes loops are done in such a way dropped riders rejoin though at an agreed point (with slowdown or regroup).
As such a ride is normally on an established route riders will know well, it isn't as if people are getting dropped in the middle of nowhere with no idea how to get home either.
Fair enough, maybe it doesn’t sound as bad with the explanations, still not for me though 🙂
MTB equivalent would be something like letting people know up front that the ride was going to be really steep/techs/jumpy/boggy and if they weren’t sure they should come prepared to get home?
<br />
Maybe but we don’t ride like that, I suppose it’s the difference between just clearing off and literally leaving them behind vs stopping, regrouping, having a chat and then someone heading off a different way.
If you aren’t happy getting dropped, then it’s a social ride you’re after
I went on one of those once and, whilst I wasn’t dropped, we rode past three pubs and a really nice ice cream shop.
My gast was well and truly flabbered.
The informal [MTB] riding group that I'm involved with have the default philosophy that 'everyone rides at the pace of the slowest' . This occasionally requires a certain amount of tact, but it's clear to everyone what they should expect. If anyone isn't happy, then they're free to head off on their own. Nobody ever does.
Very occasionally there are 'pirate rules' rides where it is up to you to keep up, or find your own way home (because 'we don't come back for nobody'). Again, it's clear what is to be expected.
Roadies do that shit all the time.
Won't that end up with one rider out cycling by themselves ?
Won’t that end up with one rider out cycling by themselves ?
Yes.
I know of a club that had a child safeguarding issue when a 14 yo got dropped, bonked and didn't know where he was to get home...
Doesn’t sound much fun…
Type 2 fun exists!
Also on a good day when everything comes together on the road, absolutely wringing your legs out to go as hard as you can can even be Type 1 fun (I think that's when people talk about 'flow state', I've even found it in the garage on the rollers, endorphins are lovely 😎).
Sounds normal for a training ride - our social rides are strictly "no drop", its understood that training/chain gang rides will aim for a pace and if you can't keep up you get dropped.
Yes.
One club I ride with does a mid week chaingang. It's the same loop. The pace is fast. The rule is you don't attack until a certain point. But up until that point you still have to keep up or get dropped. We look out for each other so if it's a serious issue we have been know to stop (or come back and get them in the car).
It's good training for racing (and fun). You can't ride (race) hard if you ride at the pace of the weakest.
There are loads of mid week evening rides that operate like that. Weekend rides less so because they are longer. Normally there is a cafe sprint that can start a few miles out where people get dropped. Normally only happens in the "fast" group. People know the game and enjoy it. I know some clubs operate a drop scratch group that sets off first. The idea being any dropped rider gets picked up in the second group.
Sounds grim. I wonder if there's a safe word? Like if you say "pineapple" you're aloud to sit up and head home!?
If it's not social then what's the point of riding with others? Is it some form of fitness ego boost elitism willy waving rights thing?
Doesn’t sound much fun
Good motivation for training though.
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others? Is it some form of fitness ego boost elitism willy waving rights thing?
It's for training, there'll be a fast target pace and it's about staying on. It's like racing but more available.
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others
Training for racing?
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others
If you want to get really strong you need to push yourself to your absolute limit (every so often) and when you find your limit occurs before everyone else, you get dropped.
Many years ago I used to get dropped at the same point as Emma Pooley on our local chain gang, it was a figure of 8 course, so we'd cut across to the cut over point, wait 10 mins for the main group to arrive, jump back on and see how long we could last on the return loop. She went on to be an Olympic champion, I went on to achieve mediocrity (in cycling at least).
Its a real life strava but without all the excuses
I can understand why drop rides make less sense to this forum as I personally don't think they're appropriate for most mountain biking.
I feel the risks are too high and wouldn't be happy to leave someone behind
Training, group dynamics etc.
And it's kinda social at times, it's all good and everyone knows what to expect.
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others? Is it some form of fitness ego boost elitism willy waving rights thing?
Also in this context, riding as hard as you can in a group will be faster than riding as hard as you can by yourself (and fast = fun right?), with the added satisfaction of (in theory at least) working well together, just like other team sports.
It shouldn't be difficult to understand why people might want to go fast on bikes whilst also exerting themselves, I mean, 'going fast' and 'physical exertion' are the cornerstone to how many sports exactly?
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others?
Mostly training, but some people jsut love it. On these group rides you push yourself to go much deeper than you would solo. If your week is structured well, inlcuding some endurance stuff, this is great for fitness.
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others? Is it some form of fitness ego boost elitism willy waving rights thing?
People in training to get better shocker, its like turning up for a race and then complaining that the leader is way ahead and you got spat out the back, not everything in cycling is aimed at being a nice little social, there are people out there who like to compete.
In other shocking news fast XC mtb racers only get fast by doing a chunk of training on the road. And pedaling continuously in a fast group interspersed with max efforts for 2 hours is very similar to the lungs out your mouth-recover-repeat conditions of an mtb race.
For some (most) people, riding bicycles is a hobby
For others it is a sport. You need to train hard for sport, if you don't it's just a hobby.
If it’s not social then what’s the point of riding with others? Is it some form of fitness ego boost elitism willy waving rights thing?
road riding in a group is a vastly differnet thing to riding solo. A drop ride could be a fun and free "race simulation" where your success depends not just on your fitness but your drafting skill and ability to respond to changes in pace.
My brief daliance with road riding about a decade/decade and a half ago coincided with the technological era where most people didn't have power meters, HRMs etc for training, but every non-luddite would have a smartphone to navigate themselves home if needed.
Swapping turns at 30 mph is definitely social. You need to work together to keep it up for long.
It's not about just trying to rip each others legs off. If you're doing through and off smoothly the group naturally gets up to a good pace. Eventually weaker riders stop being able to accelerate onto the back of the fast line and go out the back.
Pulling through really hard generally frowned upon as is disrupts the whole system.
every non-luddite would have a smartphone to navigate themselves home if needed.
I remember one if my first chaingang rides. It was pre smartphones and i would have been totally lost if I'd got dropped. It was good motivation to hang on.
It's a competitive thing. If you don't get it, you don't get it, but let other people enjoy. It's like like listening to people talk about the nuances of various beers when you're teetotal. I don't care, but it pleases me that you care because the world is a rich and diverse place, and people enjoying things is good (as long as no-one comes to harm).
Eventually weaker riders stop being able to accelerate onto the back of the fast line and go out the back.
Until you come to a climb, when the heavy but strong riders who'd been doing good turns suddenly disappear...
I know of a club that had a child safeguarding issue when
they completely ignored all BC guidelines
a 14 yo got dropped, bonked and didn’t know where he was to get home…
I'm not a road cyclist and I've only ever participated in informal group social rides, but I see no issue whatsoever with these type of rides, providing people know what they're signing up for and aren't put in danger. If you're a competitive cyclist, and/or training for a specific purpose, the easiest way to get faster and build stamina will be to ride with faster riders. So long as you have an escape plan when the pace gets the better of you, crack on!
I know of a club that had a child safeguarding issue when a 14 yo got dropped, bonked and didn’t know where he was to get home…
Going back a long time, it really used to nark me that parents would drop off their kids to our club evening meeting while they went Xmas shopping. They had no idea who we were - this was before safeguarding and so on - and it meant that we had to wait around until they returned. It's nice to know that my daughter recently had the same thoughts, independently of me, about unwilling kids left at her martial arts club that she then had to teach.
I know that it's only one sentence about the 14 yo being dropped, and I'm probably wrong, but as a father my first thoughts are WTF were the parents thinking?
I know that it’s only one sentence about the 14 yo being dropped, and I’m probably wrong, but as a father my first thoughts are WTF were the parents thinking?
as we just ascertained, a lot of MTBers don't know what a no drop ride is. I dont hold out much hope for a non-cycling parent (assuming that if they did cycle they would also be in the same club and be firends with some other members?)
the 14y/o may have been ignorant to the implications, or simply too full of teenage enthusiasm, sugar and fast twitch muscles to contemplate the possiblity that they would be dropped.
I know that it’s only one sentence about the 14 yo being dropped, and I’m probably wrong, but as a father my first thoughts are WTF were the parents thinking?
I believe they werent aware that he was going out on chain gang as they werent cyclists and no one bothered to check he knew what he was in for.
I believe they werent aware that he was going out on chain gang as they werent cyclists and no one bothered to check he knew what he was in for.
That's what I assumed. The safeguarding gets transferred to the people he's riding with because the parents are too stupid to understand what's going on. (I know, I'm being harsh! :D)
That's what we accommodated in our club fast rides by having a (named) guardian for each ride the young lad was on - it was too fast for his actual Dad so other riders took it in turns to be his chaperone so when he dropped of someone (and often more than one) would drop too so he wasn't abandoned in the middle of nowhere.
Won’t that end up with one rider out cycling by themselves ?
Eventually, but like a road race there's a benefit to staying together and adjusting pace slightly, not to the weakest but for the bulk of the ride so that you can share the load and benefit from the drafting and through and off. And then maybe, if it's part of the ethos, once you get in the last few km maybe then some race style attacking will be allowed so yes, finally maybe one 'wins' the sprint to the last sign but no-one's more than about 2 mins behind.
Then shock - often the ride ends at the pub and an isotonic lager starts the recovery, which is very social.
I’m not a road cyclist and I’ve only ever participated in informal group social rides, but I see no issue whatsoever with these type of rides
When I debated joining a local road club they had several grades of riding from:
social. stop for cakes if someone looks knackered.
bit more serious but will keep an eye on you.
Then a set of average speed of x mph and will say bye bye.
With a recommendation start in the bit more serious unless you are coming from another club with similar setup.
Seems sensible if you are into that sort of thing.
I used to love a good Tuesday evening chain gang. I’m not in the market for that kind of ride these days, but I’m happy that they’re there if I get back to it.
@dissonance do they give you a form to fill out before joining?
What type of rider are you?
1. Ooooooh look, a butty van. Let's stop for 5 mins.
2. Take it steady, say hi to passing riders. Pub or cafe at the end of the ride.
3. Heads down, look moody, out of the saddle pushing hard on climbs, do not acknowledge passing riders.
4. STRAAAAAVVVAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
finally maybe one ‘wins’ the sprint to the last sign
Also known as the Tuesday night World Championship
That’s what we accommodated in our club fast rides by having a (named) guardian for each ride the young lad was on – it was too fast for his actual Dad so other riders took it in turns to be his chaperone
We had to do similar - he was signed by a continental development team at 17, we ran out of chaperones....
I have been on a few rides with other people's clubs. The best one was with a group of wide ranging abilities, including a couple of ex-pros. It was flat-ish terrain, they would set out at a gentle pace and gradually wind it up until no-one was left. Brilliant fun. Of course they knew everyone was local and knew their way around (except me, but I had a GPS).
We just made sure the Monday night chainy isn't affiliated with any club, and it starts somewhere that it'd be hard to offload your teenager and drive off
Also known as the Tuesday night World Championship
No you have to pay to enter those at Hillingdon. E123 and a 3/4 thrashfest. Someone has already pre-entered the first on BC website! Keen.
Our club Tuesdays are serious affairs, including the serious beers afterwards. Saturdays are more social and accommodate new riders. All new riders ride in the beginners group until signed off as safe in a group. Then the fast ones kill the rest of us in Group one on a Tuesday 😀
We had to do similar – he was signed by a continental development team at 17, we ran out of chaperones….
Ewan Mackie? Came out with our club a few times. Obvs I dropped him 😉
I was in a road club at 16 (in the 80's) that sometimes dropped me and the other 16 year old if we weren't keeping up. Usually in the middle of nowhere with a cold rainy 30 mile ride into a headwind to get home. We laughed about it at the time - but looking back now a bit of modern-style safeguarding wouldn't have gone amiss.
We have the same at our running club. 7 or 8 pace groups based on distance at a set minutes per mile.
The slower groups will always wait for people and often stop to wait a agreed points.
The fast group(s) won't stop as it's seen as a training run. They're also much tighter to the agreed pace and route so people do know exactly where they're going and what they're getting themselves in to.
Chasing people who are faster than you is a great way to get fit and push yourself harder than you normally would,
he was signed by a continental development team at 17, we ran out of chaperones….
Ours went off to University, he still rides (fast) but his Dad informs that his performance has suffered somewhat compared to earlier potential.
There's a subtext to this that somehow keeping up with an non-dropping MTB group is better.
All that means is that teenage me was being bought beers by people twice my age in a pub in the middle of nowhere on a school night then riding home alone in the dark!
Perhaps with a bit of safeguarding I might have become a serious racing cyclist, not one of the reprobates drinking whiskey and heckling at SSUK 😂
They work best when it's a ride out to a circuit (some sort of quiet-ish roads, maybe a 5-mile loop) and then a thrash round and round that before regrouping and riding home.
The problem we found was that very few people in the club could actually do a proper efficient through-and-off. That was compounded by the shit state of the roads along the loop they chose which meant that following wheels and holding a line was tricky. 🤷🏻♂️
Sounds like another reason not to buy a curly-barred bike !
I can't get my head around road biking at all.
If a ride is all about seeimg who can't keep up, and then forcing them to drop out, where does the fun factor and the having a laugh with your mates bit fit in?
If a ride is all about seeimg who can’t keep up, and then forcing them to drop out, where does the fun factor and the having a laugh with your mates bit fit in?
They're designed as fast road training rides and that doesn't work if someone turns up, can't keep up and the whole group has to wait every 5 minutes.
If you make it clear and specify what it's for and what is expected then it works and it is good fun and social. It also builds good teamwork in a group/club that might be racing together later in the season.
I can’t get my head around road biking at all.
You mean one particular type of ride....
Some people are competitive and like seeing how good they are vs their club mates...
You should look up road racing, you'll notice they don't stop and wait for the slow guys either....
Rd riding with good pace in mind is superb for fittness, and feels great, it can be done on an mtb too which we do, mix it up is key.
I personally get great enjoyment from physically pushing myself, it is sport after all, i love climbing be it rd or mtb, this mentality also makes the rides rd or mtb that are more a day out socially even more fun as you can do more and feel better so can do more again, funny thing this fitness lark eh...doesnt come easy though which is the society problem.
I think in mtb mentality has changed alot since i started in the early 90,s and changed loads in the last 10 years, theres fewer and fewer riders who love the physical aspect imo, which is fine, do what you enjoy.
But i guarratee one thing, getting fitter equals more FUN not less.
its only a sport if you are racing
As has already been said, the point of the ride isn’t to drop people. It just means that it’s a ride where you can’t keep up, they won’t wait.
This is clearly better than not labelling it as such and then just mercilessy leaving people off the back of the group at random intervals throughout the ride. Naturally, rides advertised like this Will likely be the faster ones and not the social ones.
I genuinely can’t tell if all the comments about people “not having fun” are serious, like have you never tried to see how fast you can go, ever? Or are all amateur competitive hobbies supposedly miserable? Like no one in an amateur athletics club, rowing club, karate class, weightlifting competitions are having any fun?
Fair enough if it’s not your bag, but if you don’t think it’s fun (or social) you might be surprised if you try it.
TJ, Really, i didnt realise that, doesnt change my feelings or observations.
is it sport as we as mates race each other for a bit freindly competition , great fun and banter either way despite who or what defines it..
Some compete in different ways , some seem to see who can take the best photo of a cup off coffee or a cake....😁
Ewan Mackie? Came out with our club a few times. Obvs I dropped him 😉
Thats the one - he's ridden with a few local clubs.
I can’t get my head around road biking at all.
If a ride is all about seeimg who can’t keep up, and then forcing them to drop out, where does the fun factor and the having a laugh with your mates bit fit in?
Have you not read the thread?
Fair enough if it’s not your bag, but if you don’t think it’s fun you might be surprised if you try it.
the idea of riding that close to other riders and relying on someone elses skill for my safety terrifies me. Years ago riding motorbikes a mate I know is a good motorcycle rider and I tried to ride in close formation like the cops do - side by side in a lane. We just could not do it. goes against everything I know about road safety. 2 second gap and 1.5 m minimum passing distance
Yeah I agree it’s likely more risky than riding by yourself.
Then again, I’m not aware of tonnes of RTAs/crashes of club pelotons on the roads- I’m sure we’d here about it if it was common, so statistically doesn’t seem so bad, but that’s clearly just a hunch.
Kinda reminds me of the 'crit racing' I used to go to. We'd ride out to the West Midland Showground in Shrewsbury and have informal crit races where you'd ride laps of sketchy access roads and every lap the last person had to pull out until only one person survived.
I guess these days these sort of events would be inclusive, so everyone would just slowly ride around in circles for an hour and then fist pump each other at the end 😉
Well. If this thread has shown one thing (again) is there appear to be a lot of people who just cannot understand why someone might enjoy something that they themselves don’t.
If a ride is all about seeimg who can’t keep up, and then forcing them to drop out, where does the fun factor and the having a laugh with your mates bit fit in?
If you and your mates are both competitive, then that IS the fun. Like say, playing pool with your mates, or racing them down the hill, or seeing who can lift the most or whatever. It's good natured competition.
Riding in a tight group rolling through and off at 50kph+ is a thing of beauty, whether in a race or on a training ride. You learn to trust the other riders as this brings greater reward in terms of speed. There’s often little truck given for those not riding safely or sitting-on. In the same way that hucking off big jumps isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, road racing might not be another’s. <br />Being dropped on a road ride is almost a formative experience - it helps build your resilience as a rider - I once got dropped in the pissing rain, 50 miles from home one wet Sunday in November somewhere around Evesham on the way home from Wales - ridden 100 miles the day before with a raging cold and couldn’t quite manage the return trip.
I’ve had some great rides advertised as such. Pushed very deep to hang on and the feeling of arriving back together having “survived” was very pleasant.
Generally safer riders on a chaingang 👍
A summer evening chain gang / drop ride is amongst the funnest things you can do on a bike.
My first time going to one i got dropped after 10 minutes. Was back the next week and lasted a bit longer, I then used it to gain fitness and when i eventually made it round the whole route without getting dropped it felt like an achievement.
The well established fast groups will be a real mix of riders from different disciplines too - out and out roadies but also those that do xc, time trials, track, cx and gravel (and often a combination of those). Virtually everyone that participates will be looking forward to the clocks changing so things can kick off again. It's social in it's own way too with banter before and after the ride plus the ride home. On the surface it seems to be an unwelcoming environment but it's the opposite for me - if you are fit enough and know the ropes of how to ride one safely you could turn up to any of the open ones around the country and be included - no pressure to be social either, just ride hard and be safe and you'll be accepted.
Fast, experienced chaingangs are way safer than a group of randoms on a social ride!
Im sure - and I wouldn't do a social ride that close to folk either. Its a psychological thing about being responsible for myself and trusting no one else with my safety
the idea of riding that close to other riders and relying on someone elses skill for my safety terrifies me.
I'm not a roadie, but I do find the whole close riding / drafting thing exhilarating - you end up going far faster than any one of you could manage alone. It's a thing of beauty when you all get into the same rhythm, but it's not the sort of thing to do with strangers / randoms.
Years ago riding motorbikes a mate I know is a good motorcycle rider and I tried to ride in close formation like the cops do – side by side in a lane.
Me and my mate Terry used to do that - CHiPs stylee
As has already been said, the point of the ride isn’t to drop people. It just means that it’s a ride where you can’t keep up, they won’t wait.
Exactly. No point ruining it for everyone else just because an unfit mtber has turned up.
