[Closed] Drop bars for offroad - why it's not the same as road.

thanks for posting - food for thought - don't reckon I've ever tried climbing in the drops except by accident - thought that sort of position reserved for hill top sprints and I don't do that stuff - what I have noticed I do (highlighted by lower back pain and comments about shoulder tension from my backman) is pull on fingers hooked under the hoods whilst riding uphill in the bizarre hope of bringing my core into play - now try not to do it as just tenses shoulders so maybe I'll give the drops ago and see if any core available

The bike in the article has a setup very different than a gravel bike so not sure it is that relevant to a typical gravel bike. The drops on a gravel bike are much lower as road style drop bars are used. When I use drop bars I have to ride in the drops a lot as I have no brake levers and climbing (especially standing) while crouching over and holding drops is not great.

The bike in the article has a setup very different than a gravel bike so not sure it is that relevant to a typical gravel bike. The drops on a gravel bike are much lower as road style drop bars are used.

To counter that, you're doing it wrong.

My gravel bike is setup like the one in that article, the drops are about where XC race bike would have its flat bars. The tops are then reserved for pootling and eating.

The same should really be true on a road bike, Cervelo (or the guy behind it) published a set of blogs explaining why their headtube are tall compared to some, it gets you in the drops easier and makes for a much more aerodynamic package as your forearms come up horizontal when on the hoods

The advantages of drops are different to different people, I like the easier aero tuck on my commute, and find the dropped position easier on the wrists on a long day. That's not to say I haven't done 100mile+ days on a mountain bike, the gravel bike just does them a little easier.

In terms of control I'd hesitate to say drops are better, they're unlikely to appear on the EWS! But they do work really well on the more normal "ride round the edge of a field and through some woods" mountainbiking that makes up 99% of UK riding.

In terms of control I’d hesitate to say drops are better, they’re unlikely to appear on the EWS! But they do work really well on the more normal “ride round the edge of a field and through some woods” mountainbiking that makes up 99% of UK riding.

Mibbe 99% of your riding.

I'm obviously doing it wrong too. My bars (Woodchippers) are set up lower than GT has. As Epi says, it's an old article and I didn't agree with it first time around either.

TINAS is right about what most folk call mountain biking though.

In terms of control I’d hesitate to say drops are better

they do however stop your hands being bounced off the hoods on rooty/rocky singletrack and high speed fire roads

Always think bikes like that are the equivalent of US muscle cars. Burly, great in a straight line but not designed for cornering.

To corner well you'd be better off with either a narrower bar (most drops, even the flared ones) fitted lower, or if it needs to be that high, make it wider.

That just seems like the worst of all worlds to me really. If the drops are in the same position as a flat bar, then there's nowhere to go to get lower/more aero.
Also limited choice of brakes and gear shifting.

Flat bar with barends, those funky Euro touring butterfly bars, and Jones bars all make more sense to me.
My gravel bike of choice is now a Singular Swift with fast tyres and Jones bars on. Tempted to try a Redshift stem too.

To counter that, you’re doing it wrong.

Not really, I use aero base bars as I don't have brakes (so no hoods) and have the bars at about the same height as the hoods would be on a race bike. Good aero position, comfortable hand angle and great for climbing.

I don't even have a gravel bike, was just observing that 99% of gravel bikes have road style drops so maybe the 99% of people riding them are doing it wrong.

I've used conventional drops, moderate flares (Bell Laps, Cowbells) and full flares (Midge, Digest) off-road, in anything from road bike position to higher than I'd have flat bars, and for me the issue with drops is that my arms end up in a position where they can't absorb bumps as well. With flats I find I can pump the bars really easily because my arms end up in a position where they have a natural scissor action; whereas with drops it's more a case of simply pivoting at the elbow, and I just can't make that work as effectively.

To what extent it's me being crap and to what extent it's inherent in the biomechanics I don't know, but it's tricky.

With drops or moderate flares my arms work better on the hoods, but then there's not enough braking available for technical stuff; in the drops there's enough braking control but I can't take the hits.

The Genetic Digest does work pretty well for me, and if I was bikepacking it might be my preferred option, but for other stuff it's just a bit of a compromise: it lacks some the benefits of drops for the fast stuff and it doesn't give the same level of control as flats on the fun stuff. But as a compromise it's a decent one.

I'm happy enough riding drops off-road, and to be honest I do that more than I use flats these days, but I do have to hold back a lot on rough descents.

YMMV and all that jazz.

for me the issue with drops is that my arms end up in a position where they can’t absorb bumps as well. With flats I find I can pump the bars really easily because my arms end up in a position where they have a natural scissor action; whereas with drops it’s more a case of simply pivoting at the elbow, and I just can’t make that work as effectively.

I think that's why I like the Woodchippers. When riding in the drops they immediately put my arms into that elbows-out position which gives me that "scissors" pivot.

Mibbe 99% of your riding.

Even if you ride nothing but bikeparks, unless you have an uplift then 80-90% of the time you're still riding up a fireroad.

If I go for a ride in the chilterns then it's a 50mile loop to include something moderately technical like Grims Ditch. Even in places like the Lake or Peak district the riding is mostly relatively tame. I just view gravel biking as picking the right bike for 90% of the ride and accepting the compromise elsewhere. The opposite of an enduro bike which sacrifices that 90% of the riding to be perfect on the remainder.

If the drops are in the same position as a flat bar, then there’s nowhere to go to get lower/more aero.

Riding on the drops with straight arms is not aero. Look at things like Sphinx bars on track bikes, shoulders low, hands level with elbows.

thisisnotaspoon

To counter that, you’re doing it wrong....

I don't think there's a wrong or right that can be applied universally to bars. A lot depends on what's comfortable for the rider and their local conditions. I find the upper part of a drop bar gets in the way on more technical stuff, but that's a minuscule amount of gravel riding, so its not really a problem.

It's likely the people who prefer to ride with much lower bars are those who are fitter and more flexible than the rest of us and can take advantages of the aero benefits of the lower bar.

There's no way I'll ever need an aero position because I rarely exceed 20mph.

What I took away from that article was setting the drop portion of the bar at the same height as your flat bar would be. Which is basically the old roule of thumb for setting up drops for non racing use as that puts the tops close to the level with of the saddle.

I won't argue if it's better or not because it all comes down to your preference, but it suits my riding, especially for long days (but I'm more of a gravel rider than a heroic mtber 🙂 ).

The bike in the article has a setup very different than a gravel bike so not sure it is that relevant to a typical gravel bike. The drops on a gravel bike are much lower as road style drop bars are used. When I use drop bars I have to ride in the drops a lot as I have no brake levers and climbing (especially standing) while crouching over and holding drops is not great.

and

I use aero base bars as I don’t have brakes (so no hoods) and have the bars at about the same height as the hoods would be on a race bike. Good aero position, comfortable hand angle and great for climbing.
I don’t even have a gravel bike, was just observing that 99% of gravel bikes have road style drops so maybe the 99% of people riding them are doing it wrong.

Interested on a thread about drop bars for offroad what you are riding given your comments? No brakes; track possibly or turbo trainer perhaps?

Even if you ride nothing but bikeparks, unless you have an uplift then 80-90% of the time you’re still riding up a fireroad.

Lots of my local climbs would be manageable on drop bars, course they would, but none of the descents would be any fun, some of them completely unmanageable. I've seen enough mincers teetering down them on fat bikes and rigid bikes to know that by now.

The local trails up the river from me would be fine on a drop barred bike, but buying a bike for one type of ride would be silly now.

Perhaps if I lived where you live I'd look at it differently.

What I took away from that article was setting the drop portion of the bar at the same height as your flat bar would be.

Agreed, works in some ways though that's when the point about it just being a narrow, swept MTB bar alternative comes in. For a bike that corners well or handles anything a bit tricky, thinking of the grip positions and the front contact patch as a point-down triangle helps. The higher and narrower the grip points the less stable it is at a lean angle, or as you move around on the bike. Muscle car bikes, or cornering like a double decker bus.
(edit to add, there's a good counter-point related to this from a very experienced rider/designer, about how a tall pole is easier to balance on your fingertip than a short one ... but I stick to my wider/lower point re general bike handling)

Just inherited some butterfly bars to try on my Superfly for "genuine" gravel use e.g. wide fast fireroads, not interested in trying to incorporate singletrack into my gravel rides.

Not sure what to do with the brakes though, traditional mounting on butterfly bars would put them in the 'pootling or climbing' position, just hoping that's not too relevant on fireroad descending...

Even if you ride nothing but bikeparks, unless you have an uplift then 80-90% of the time you’re still riding up a fireroad.

You're correct 80% of mountainbiking in steeper areas is probably climbing. but it's certainly not all fireroad.
Climbing is shite though which means 80% of mountianbiking is shite too. This is exactly why I bought an Emtb. It has reduced climbing time considerably and the increased climbing speed makes a lot of the previously shite climbing quite fun.

The thing about a drop barred bike (with appropriate tyres for the descent) is, it's no faster up a fire road than a hardtail with the same tyres so why would you even consider one when it turns anything fun ie. ruts, roots, rocks, compressions, turns, jumps into much less fun.
I have a pretty nice roadbike for going faster up climbs and going faster on smooth descents. (faster everywhere really)

Blinkered cyclist Blogger in "types a lot of shite based only on his tiny world experience" shocker 1!!1!!

Interested on a thread about drop bars for offroad what you are riding given your comments?

I ride a track bike (on road and off road) I change the bars regularly depending on my mood between risers, drops and aero bars (bullhorns). If I had to choose just one bar it would be the aero bar but as changing bars takes 2 minutes I can decide before a ride.
The point is when I use drops I find I have to climb in the drops when standing and it is not great, the drop part of the bars is too far back when standing. When seated they are great though although not really much different than aero bars where I can more easily get into a hands level with elbow position.

jameso

Agreed, works in some ways though that’s when the point about it just being a narrow, swept MTB bar alternative comes in...

Bars are simply curved tubes to get your hands where you want them. The main thing I like I like about the drop bar is the utility of the hook.

Off road I could do without the rest of the bar - it's a nuisance on technical stuff, but I like the security the hook gives with a loose grip because on a rigid bike you your wrists don't get such a beating on rougher downhills.

Bar ends on a straight bar could give a similar hand position, but without the hook or the handily placed brakes.

On road, the tops are useful because there are times I like to pootle along upright enjoying the scenery.

When comparing the width of dropbars against ordinary mtb bars, it's worth looking at where your hands lie.

On a straight bar of equal width the centre of your hands is somewhat inboard of the dropbar position. For equal leverage a straight bar has to be a bit wider, about 80mm (quick experiment with a pencil data 🙂 ).

BTW all my mtbs are fitted with On-One Mary bars because I prefer those for when conditions get lumpy.

^ agreed, what I mean about a high flare drop being largely equal to a narrow swept flat bar is that few would look at a narrow highly swept bar as a good thing for an MTB. H bars are about as narrow and swept as most go on a similar MTB, still wider than a drop though. Luxys may be about the same as an H.
But yes, as long as the grip position works for you, all good.

Blinkered cyclist Blogger in “types a lot of shite based only on his tiny world experience” shocker 1!!1!!

I didn't know you were a blogger Gary? 🤣

Srsly I do agree with you for that kind of riding. I think done of these guys are on about different riding. For some drops are just cooler, period.