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Hello.
Excuse the lengthy post, but bear with me.
I've got a Production Privee Oka, which I've had for only a month or two.
I'm having some issues with the drivetrain that to be honest I've not come across before and so wondered if anyone had. For info, I have an XT 10s shifter, SLX 10s mech(brand new med cage), KMC chain 10s, Sunrace 11-42t cassette, Superstar N/W front 30t ring.
The frame itself can run either 27.5" wheels, or 26" wheels, by way of dedicated dropouts that change the axle position effectively.
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Up until this weekend, I have been running my 26" wheels and using a Shimano XT cassette with a Superstar 40T expander fitted.
Generally speaking, the drivetrain had been running fairly ok, though I was having issues with the chain skipping in the smaller cogs under power.
I had been fancying a bigger cog, a 42T and also wanted a smoother transition on the cassette, so, I bought a Sunrace MX3 11-42T cassette which I fitted. Initially it appeared to work very well but then I found I was having more problems with the chain slipping under load in the small cogs. By the way, I also replaced the chain for a new one.
I thought perhaps that my gear hanger might be bent and so I made myself a tool to check and adjust it. With that done I was still having issues with chain slip in the smaller cogs.
I think essentially the problem is that the B-screw wound in to clear the largest cog, was making the distance from the jockey wheel to the smaller cogs too great, too much free chain and not enough chain wrap.
I then got myself some 27.5" wheels(for my big bike) and thought I'd try them on my hardtail, and so I changed the dropouts to the 27.5"-specific ones.
This time it would seem that I have a different problem, in that the distance from the arm on the mech to which the cable is attached is seemingly much smaller and when I change up and down the block, the chain actually hits it and gets jammed. So, I have a new problem, and probably still the old problem but can't get far enough to ride it to see because this new problem causes the whole drivetrain to jam!
I have compared both sets of dropouts and the distance from the centre of the axle to the centre of the mech mount is pretty much identical on both. The problem as I can see it is the tab on the bottom of the hanger which the tab on the mech 'elbow' hits against to stop the mech rotating.
If you look at pictures of my mech, you can see the little elbow is going uphill towards the back of the bike thereby bringing the mech closer. If you look at most other bikes, the little elbow is usually pretty much in line with the chainstay. I can't see how this problem can be gotten around really.
It doesn't make sense to me how the axle to mech mount distance being the same, the problem can be so different on the 650b wheels/dropouts.
Let's have some pics.
This is the bike the other day with my 26" wheelset on. You can see that (to me at least) the mech looks unnaturally far back and angled down. To me it should be much more forward, rotated anti-clockwise and down. So it works like that to a point, but I get the chain slip I mentioned and lots of skipping in the smaller cogs.
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This is the bike with the 650b wheelset on. You see how that mech elbow is so far angled upwards? That to me is not right, and I think it should be pretty much in the same plane as the ground.
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This image shows my problem. The mech arm where the cable attaches is mega close to the cassette and changing gear makes the chain jam against it.
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This is a close up of an image I pulled off the PP website showing a Shan I think. It would seem that the elbow on that is at a similar angle.
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So this photo pulled off Google images shows a bike with the elbow at what I think is a more normal angle.
This angle has the effect of dropping the mech away from the cassette a little which gives the chain more clearance.
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So, I don't really get what's happening. If anyone can shed any light or experience on it that'd be grand as it's driving me nuts.
I think the basic problem is that of the elbow being too high, and so to hopefully solve it I have ordered a Wolftooth Goatlink.
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This is supposed to alter the position at which the mech sits and I hope it may help, but otherwise, could Production Privee be making their dropouts wrong? (I have emailed them, no reply yet) I doubt this as I've not read about a single problem like this with anyone else's.
So why would changing the wheels cause this issue? Will a Goatlink help?
If anyone has a bit of a clue what's occuring, I'd appreciate it.
Cheers.
That mech looks totally wrong at the top pic. The gear outer looks way too short.
What does it look like if you take the chain off and disconnect the outer/inner?
Agreed, outer at rear mech far too short. This is pulling your mech up and back meaning it's jamming on the cassette.
The mech and the hanger have sticky out bits that meet and limit the forward / anticlockwise rotation of the much. If you take your cable off and loosen the hanger bolt you can move yours forward to the right place. Then sort the cable! You can see the bit on your dropout in the first picture, and here you can see the bit on the mech.
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Hmmm. The outer was cut to meet the mech, the mech wasn't moved to meet the outer.
I'm not sure it's this as I have tried it with the cable disconnected and pushing it by hand and it does the exact same.
On most shimano mechs i have fitted the small link sits parallel to the floor. yours seems to be at 45 degrees
@thegreatape, it is in the right place. The mech tab is resting against the tab on the hanger. I've tried fitting it with the tab below and it looks like it would work, but obviously then the mech has nothing to stop against and so just rotates and moves.
See the picture of the light blue Shan. The mech is sitting in a similar position.
On most shimano mechs i have fitted the small link sits parallel to the floor. yours seems to be at 45 degrees
Innit... 😐
But the Shan picture off their website looks similar.. (but presumably works)
But look at your bolts, the last one is up at about 10 o'clock in relation to the first one. In the picture of the Scott it's more like half eight.
FWIW, who ever put that bike together for their website needs a smack in the chops.
And a copy of the instructions.
Might be worth you doing the same. Reading the instructions i mean....
Instructions? I've fitted countless mechs to countless bikes over the years and never encountered this problem.
thegreatape - Member
But look at your bolts, the last one is up at about 10 o'clock in relation to the first one. In the picture of the Scott it's more like half eight.
I know.... That's why I put the contrasting pictures up.
It's odd. Have you got a picture of your dropout without the mech on?
An SLX M675 med cage mech will work on a 1x 11-42 drivetrain so that part is fine, what looks very odd in your pic is the mech drop link so i'd remove the cable from the mech and also remove the mech, reposition the mech to hanger drop link and refit the cable.
Not much to add but I had a very similar issue when swapping to a bigger cassette on my Five. Was a proper rush job, and the link was parallel to the ground, but couldn't get my head around what was going on. Need to have another go at it
thegreatape - Member
It's odd. Have you got a picture of your dropout without the mech on?
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i'd remove the cable from the mech and also remove the mech, reposition the mech to hanger drop link and refit the cable
Mech re-fitted minus the cable, locating tab against the mech hanger stop.
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Cable refitted
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Clearance is currently ok (26" wheelset fitted) but still have terrible slipping in smaller cogs(there is a lot of free chain imho from the top jockey to the cassette)
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It's a bit of a mystery really 😐
Goatlink should arrive early next week so I'll see if it does owt. Otherwise, who knows? May have to somehow alter the hanger or something...
That's very bizarre. Even looking at other mech hangers yours looks about right in terms of where the tab is. And your mech mount looks fine. It's just hard to see how it ends up pointing so high??? I'm not sure how the goat link will help if the hanger is somehow wring - I've got one, and it does help as its supposed to, but obviously it's made to work with a hanger that a normal mech works with. If it's the hanger making that angle all wrong the goat link might be at a bad angle too?
Something doesn't look right about that dropout - the derailleur stop should be directly below or very slightly back from the mounting hole, like these:
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Yours looks much further back than that.
Have you got an old mech you could stick on the PP to compare and contrast angles? And vice versa, an old frame you could stick the new mech on to look for differences? That should tell you if you've got dropout issues/mech issues or are just going mad.
I wonder if the tab on your mech hanger is not quite defined enough?
I've been out looking at my bike and I reckon the position of the hanger tab is ok on yours. And even looking at your new photos it's hard to see why the mount ends up pointing to 10 o'clock not half eight ish. Looking at the hangers Ben posted, perhaps the left hand edge of the tab on yours is not quite cutaway enough and that's pushing the pin on the mount proud of where it should be. Can you file it away a bit, just at the corner of the tab, to allow the mount to sit properly?
I know it's possible on some SRAM mechs to have a tab spun around almost 360deg from where it should be making you think it's right but it's not.
Maybe it's something like that.
I wouldn't go filing stuff yet.
Has this been resolved yet? I have a Shan 27 with both wheelsize dropouts in my attic awaiting build. If anyone wants a photo i will get the parts and try and post them.
Looks like what Ben says, dodgy dropout?
Schoolboy error and fairly easy mistake, but is the chain cut too long?
I'd be taking the cable off and then using my hands to move the mech whilst adjusting the limit screws. It's surprising how much that arm moves when you make adjustments.
breninbeener - Member
Has this been resolved yet?
No 😐
Schoolboy error and fairly easy mistake, but is the chain cut too long?
The chain length doesn't really affect the position of the mech body as that is limited by the limit tab and the b screw.
A shorter chain would just pull the jockey wheels more horizontal.
Have you got an old mech you could stick on the PP to compare and contrast angles? And vice versa, an old frame you could stick the new mech on to look for differences? That should tell you if you've got dropout issues/mech issues or are just going mad.
Yes I think so. I'll try something out tomorrow, though looking at mates bikes, the mech linkage is always more horizontal.
Hopefully production privee will answer my email soon this week. All the PP frames do look to have an uphill linkage though.
piedi di formaggio - Member
I'd be taking the cable off and then using my hands to move the mech whilst adjusting the limit screws. It's surprising how much that arm moves when you make adjustments.
Yeah I've done all that. I've played with the b-screw until it only just clears the big cog but it's still got too much free chain on the smalls. The main issue is still when I fit the 650b wheels, where the arm clearance is so small that the chain jams.
Very weird.
Rode it at FOD today (26"wheels) and it mostly behaved until about midway where I had bad indexing issues and a few chain slips.
🙄
I'm probably being dense, but I can't see why changing the wheel size should affect the mech; surely it's in the same position relative to the axle and therefore the cassette? Since the only other thing that's changed is the dropout I'm inclined to think that there might be a problem there.
Having very similar issue with sram gx rear mech. Apparently missing a spacer?.
I'm a complete numpty when it comes to bike design, but looking at mech. hanger used on my Pipedream Scion, the tab the the mech. stop butts up against starts at the bottom of a curve and itself curves back out, meaning that the mech. stop sits at the back of the curve, roughly 90° to the ground. On the Oka dropout the tab appears to essentially be a triangle jutting out of the hanger with the mech stop resting on a straight side (roughly 45I'm a complete numpty when it comes to bike design, but looking at mech. hanger on my Pipedream, the tab the the mech. stop butts up against starts at the bottom of a curve and itself curves back out, meaning that the stop sits at the back of this, roughly 90° to the ground. On the Oka dropout the tab appears to essentially be a triangle jutting out of the hanger with the mech stop resting on a straight side (at what looks to be about 45°)and looks as if tip the mech. too far forward.
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I cut my chain too short (trying to solve rattling chain), this caused my mech to get stuck behind the 36t ring. New chain, added link back in sorted it.
Ben and a couple of others have the answer.
I've had a similar thing to this on Mrsstu's Nimble9.
The gear hanger stop is to high/far back and caused the arm of the mech to catch the cassette when i fitted a 42 expander cog.
The simple solution was the grind the stopper tag on the mech to allow it to sit in a further forward position.
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See the tab on the mech that's stopping the mech from rotating forwards in this pic.
You need to grind that back to allow more rotation on the mech.
As someone who's spent a bunch of time with stock and tweaked derailleurs (and the guy who designed the GoatLink), I'm going to say that (as others have suggested) the hanger looks way off. Here's Shimano's specification:
[URL= http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/Aydynj/2885252658_b55650152d_o.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/Aydynj/2885252658_b55650152d_o.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
The b-tab looks to be quite a good 10-15 degrees further clockwise from where it should be, which will muck with the derailleur position, reducing chain wrap and impacting shifting. Shimano DM rear derailleurs (with a DM link) aren't really adjustable there, so any weirdness is amplified. Have Production Privee been responsive to any messages?
Have Production Privee been responsive to any messages?
Not yet, but it is the weekend so I'll wait a bit.
See the tab on the mech that's stopping the mech from rotating forwards in this pic.
You need to grind that back to allow more rotation on the mech.
That mech seems to have more meat on the mech tab. My SLX has much less I think so not so much room for filing. Might have to be what I try though.
PJay - Member
I'm probably being dense, but I can't see why changing the wheel size should affect the mech; surely it's in the same position relative to the axle and therefore the cassette? Since the only other thing that's changed is the dropout I'm inclined to think that there might be a problem there.
Not being dense at all. It really doesn't make sense.
I've compared both dropouts and they look like the distance from the axle centre to the mech mount centre is the same so yes, makes no sense.
That mech seems to have more meat on the mech tab. My SLX has much less I think so not so much room for filing
It was a Zee mech that i filed down so it had an equally small tab to the SLX.
I'll try and remember to take some pics of it if you want. It's just sat on the bench as there's now an 11 speed XT on there which works with any addaption.
Btw, if it hasn't been said yet, slipping gears when you change your chain is caused by the cassette being also too worn.
Btw, if it hasn't been said yet, slipping gears when you change your chain is caused by the cassette being also too worn.
Brand new cassette same time as chain. Sunrace 11-42
mlindarets - Member
As someone who's spent a bunch of time with stock and tweaked derailleurs (and the guy who designed the GoatLink), I'm going to say that (as others have suggested) the hanger looks way off. Here's Shimano's specification:
Very useful to have your input Mr Goatlink, thanks.
So do you think the Goatlink will improve matters or not make much difference?
Ultimately I may have to see if I can get different dropouts machined maybe.
The b-tab looks to be quite a good 10-15 degrees further clockwise from where it should be, which will muck with the derailleur position, reducing chain wrap and impacting shifting.
I think this is clearly the root cause of the issue. Funny though how with the bigger wheels (and appropriate dropouts) that the cable tension arm is so much closer. Perhaps the dropout is laterally different too? 😐
Such a shame as the Oka is just amazing apart from this little issue.
Update. No word from Production Privee as yet but I got my Goatlink already and it's improved things a lot.
All shots with 27.5" wheelset and dropouts fitted.
A shot of the mech with the original drop link.
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The Goatlink fitted alone
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The Goatlink and mech fitted. Looking way more horizontal
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View from above with normal droplink on
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View from above with Goatlink fitted and B-screw still wound in. Seems like more clearance
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Goatlink fitted and now with B-screw wound out a lot as it needn't be in so much to clear the 42t ring. Seems like a little more clearance.
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Basically it now works in a slow ride around the road outside me house however, changing down the cogs the response is very slow. I had a hell of a lot of trouble getting the cable to take the mech onto the big ring despite the limit screw easily allowing it.
Once I got it to do it by tensioning the cable, it then seems to take about a week from shifter click to movement down the cog.... (brand new cable and outer)
It's sort of working anyway which is better than before but I'll still need to see if it slips under power and get the indexing better.
I think your original theory is correct - the dropout ain't right. But glad it's working a bit better.
Sorry- Labo(u)r Day holiday over here so was out on the trail most of the day 😀
I'm glad that the GoatLink has helped! The skipping you felt at the bottom of the cassette was almost certainly due to insufficient engagement- the cause being the funky hanger and exacerbated by the additional B-tension required by the oversized cassette.
While the GoatLink will help bring things back towards stock, you're still unwrapped a fair bit relative to what one would expect with a conforming hanger and 11-36t cassette. (If anyone wants to get into the weeds: stock is ~140 degrees engagement in the 11t and as photographed it looks like you're closer to 110 degrees (chain entering around 8:15, leaving at 12:00).) If you spend most of your time in the top half of the range things will likely be fine. On the other hand, if you spend a lot of time in higher gears (commuting, riding to/from trails, or just being a badass), you'll probably see faster drivetrain wear (cassette wear and chain stretching)- something you'll want to keep an eye on and probably be proactive about replacing chains.
Also, as the top jockey wheel moves away from the cogs, shifting won't be as crisp as it could/should be in high gears- but that's less noticeable than you'd feel with fresh cables and housing.
Ultimately, it looks to be a solid improvement- but I hope that the manufacturer comes through for you with a conforming hanger/dropout. There's enough going on there that a custom dropout won't be inexpensive- the machinist be starting from a fairly thick plate, machining from both sides, and using some uncommon (in the US) taps. An alternative would be to file a few mm off of the GoatLink where it contacts the B-stop. The GoatLink is pretty stout- just try to stay square to the mounting face and keep the file aimed at the center of the mounting bolt. Good luck!
Marc
Thanks Marc. That's a great help! Really good to get your opinion.
It all makes a lot of sense what you say and rings true with what's happening.
On the other hand, if you spend a lot of time in higher gears (commuting, riding to/from trails, or just being a badass)
I am moderately badass... 😉
Funny how I can't find anyone else on the internet experiencing gear issues with a PP though. I suppose it's a numbers thing too.
Hopefully PP will get in touch soon and have something to say about it.
Just ridden the bike a couple of miles and the gears seemed very solid when engaged under power but they just take ages to engage from shifter click.
Mark - any thoughts -?
SRAM GX 1x11 mech with XT 11-42 cassette - lbs struggling to get chain up onto big ring at the top of cassette?
Skimmed through and didn;t see any mention, is it designed for direct mount mechs? They don't have that extra link in them that seems to be moving the mech back so far.
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Shimano-Officially-Introduces-Direct-Mount-Rear-Derailleurs.html ]http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Shimano-Officially-Introduces-Direct-Mount-Rear-Derailleurs.html[/url]
Tried to do a bit of measuring last night and got on Sketchup. Bear in mind I don't have engineering-type measuring devices so this is rulers and plastic protractors!
🙂
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is it designed for direct mount mechs?
No, just regular ones as per both sets of dropouts and no mention of anything like that on any PP blurb.
Did PP ever get back to you regarding this?
Yes actually. They said some comment (in a jokey way) about it being nigh on impossible to make the perfect dropout to cover 10/11/12 speed, but that they had a modified dropout being produced and available in October and that they would send me a set free of charge when they had it.
I'm happy with that, but don't really get the dropout and different speed issue as I had thought all mechs were based on the same fundamental geometry.
Hmm. There are standards for dropouts, they're not different for different numbers of rear cogs. Their dropout is unlike any others I've ever seen - I still think they've ballsed up and made it wrong.
I think bencooper and mlindarets analyses are spot on. I discovered this thread whilst having exactly the same frustration with my recently acquired Shan 26" 2014. It fouls the chain going from 26-down through the next 2 gears.
So that means the reply from PP
is double bollocks because they designed it this way back in 2013 right..nigh on impossible to make the perfect dropout to cover 10/11/12 speed,
As Ben says there is one standard, saying that trying to meet 10/11/12 is tough, is just a poor excuse I think.
This is my 2nd hand frame but with brand new xt771 cassette, and brand new RD786 rear mech, one up 42t and radr cage. (pic taken whilst frame upside down). The mech is hard up against the B stop.
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As you can see the angle is very much wrong compared to any other shimano equipped bike. eg here is my mega TR and the wifes trigger.The shan is about 20-30degrees off the horizontal
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So I did a rudimentary 5 minute measure by scanning the hanger (luckily its flat), scaling the image in cad to make sure the hole sizes were correct and then measuring a few angles.
If you add the shimano recommended 30degree (well I did it rough its 32) line you can see the hanger is miles off, its somewhere between 45 and 59degrees where it contacts the mech. According to the shimano drawings above (reprinted below for ref) the angle of the b-tab contact face on the tang should be radial to the centre of the mech bolt hole, of which it is a looong way off. This need proper measuring to be sure but I recon I am accurate to at least 5 degrees, which even so puts us somewhere around 20-30 degrees off..
(Note that the "vertical" I have taken the angle off is parallel to the line from the centre of the axle to the tangent of the OD of the hanger -these dims are prescribed in the shimano doc)
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So I tried it with the expander ring removed, the normal cassette (11-36) and it still has only about 110 degrees of engagement as per kayak and does not shift well. I do know how to set up a mech..
So far, I emailed PP yesterday but have not had a response, yet. I called and apparently the technical guys are away until tonight.
TBh I am double peeved as I bought his for my fast growing daughter, and then got a bit excited and got the 27.5 Shan 917, the last one in small, for myself, but I have had a look at the hanger and a brief inspection reveals that 2 years later, the 2016 model still has the same issue. as per Kayak, doom as I was about to order the 26 drop outs too..
Options
1) goat link - looks Ok, but engagement still not perfect.
2) This alternative goatlink, the [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pilo-S10-adapter-for-Shimano-shadow-direct-link-rear-derailleur-/112179350386 ]Pilo S10[/url] has even more of an angle back again, it might give better wrap but also looks a bit short, I have ordered..
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3) Try Sram kit? Cheap GX mech and 10 speed shifter are £62 from CRC, have ordered to try and fit u, al least I can return if I am careful.
4) See if PP have fixed the mech hangers?
5) Persuade an after market hanger manufacturer to make replacement hangers, but educate them in how the PP one is wrong. I have emailed BETD and Pilo with this thread and my "measurements" perhaps one of them will latch on.
6) Measure and manufacture myself, and ebay off 10 or so to try and cover costs.. I am considering this..
(PS I was toys19, I banned myself by mangling my password, did the same a year or so later with toys192, so I promise not to hang around but I just wanted to chip in here.)
Re the Pilo, a quick measure of the shimano DRD link shows its about 25mm centre to centre, so the Pilo at 27.2 might be OK actually. I would still rather have a conforming mech hanger.
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Very interesting Toys.
Glad to know it's not just me that had an issue but obviously sorry that you do, in what are otherwise such beautiful frames.
I had an email from PP the other day letting me know that the revised hangars were being manufactured and would be sent right out to me. They are being very friendly and helpful.
I've not received the hanger yet but will report back as soon as I do.
Thanks for the sympathy! Sorry about yours too, I am V excited to [s]ride this[/s] see my daughter riding this.
I shall hassle PP again tomorrow. That will be great if I can fix the new 27.5, but I need to find a solution for the 26er. And I was going to use the 27.5 in 26 for a while too, so I would like the conversion drop outs fixed too...
So statistically we have three frames with incorrect dropouts, I wonder how many other Shan or OKA owners are just having shifting problems and don't know why, because even without an expander the wrap is poor, I wouldn't want to ride it like that.
PPS I have just been emailing Richard at [url= http://www.revolutioncomponents.com/product/derailleur-hangers/production-privee-shan-27-5-derailleur-hanger/ ]revolution components in NZ[/url] they make a PP mech hanger. Trying to find out if they conform to shimano standard or have copied PP directly.
I have to say it 'looks' close to conforming..
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Gah they do the 135mm ones and they look exactly like the PP ones. At least with a small manufacturer like that they can probably adjust the design.
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PPPS Richard tells me that he thinks he did a run for the local PP importer to solve this, so could be interesting... Further bulletins as events warrant..
[img] http://assets.amuniversal.com/4cdd72a0deb901317193005056a9545d [/img]
Maybe it's worth a thread on Pinkbike where I suspect there may be more Shan/Oka owners. See if any others are having issues.
Yeah thats a good idea. I'll have a hunt.
I started nice... But I am going to add my issues straight away.
http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=194938
So I have got my replacement dropout from Production Privee. I've not had a chance to try it yet but it's definitely different.
I've been away from this problem for a while because I've been waiting on the new dropout but I've had the 26" wheelset in the bike running with the Goatlink and it's been fine since.
This new dropout is for the 27.5" wheelset to be run (If I remember right!!!... 😕 )
Here is the original dropout.
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Here is the replacement dropout
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And here is an overlay image of the two. The reddened one above is the original one with the newer one at the back.
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They may not be lined up perfectly (I was balancing on a stool trying to be directly above) but you get the idea.
Quite a difference in the tab position.
Bang on shimano standard. Good stuff.
MUst have got the apprentice to do the CAD for the first one.
10mm hole, tab, sorted...........
[quote=ghostlymachine ]MUst have got the apprentice to do the CAD for the first one.
10mm hole, tab, sorted...........
Nope PP's design is like the first.
Yeah, the apprentice at PP. 10mm hole, Tab, sorted........
What do you mean the tabs in the wrong place?
Standards? What, does the cycling industry actually have any?
I'm having the same issue with my Oka and 26 conversion dropouts with Zee 10sp mech and 11-40 Sunrace cassette. Chain fouls the mech actuation arm downshifting from larger sprockets and no chain wrap to speak of. Have got around it for now by mounting the b-link rotated anti-clockwise past the b-stop and using grip paste to prevent rotation - hasn't shifted yet, but having to use excessive b-tension to get the mech to take up chain slack in the 11t. Have emailed PP to see if it can be resolved for my 135x10 hangers.
It shouldn't happen but, a Goatlink sorts it...
Mine seems fine now and shifts very well 10sp 11-42
I was thinking of trying that or the Pilo S10 adapter if it couldn't be sorted at the hanger end
The new drop outs were better but still not great (if I recall...It's been a while) and so I kept the Goatlink on which makes everything run very nicely.
I since changed the Oka to a Shan and kept the same drivetrain and all runs well (still with the Goatlink, not tried without it)
Looking at the photos above, especially those by toys (once I'd inverted them!), I think I may have the updated drop out design as my link is almost horizontal.
I'll post a pic...
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Btw, if it hasn't been said yet, slipping gears when you change your chain is caused by the cassette being also too worn.Brand new cassette same time as chain. Sunrace 11-42
Could also be not enough chain engaging
@SammyC, that link is still going fairly uphill.
So it's giving you problems is it?
I've only ridden it around the block a couple of times and seems OK, but gear setup was really sensitive.
Had it checked by a local bike shop but agreed it didn't look right, hence the post on here