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Hi,
I am very interested to know people's thoughts on drive system technology. Having not ridden a bike since childhood, I bought a 2007 Claud Butler Rock XC last year - I didn't want to invest too much money without knowing whether I was going to make full use of it. Turns out I LOVE bikes and within a short time (and having ridden off road) I knew I wanted new forks and brakes so was quick to upgrade to some Rockshox Recon Race and Juicy 7s (I needed disc-compatible wheels too, so I went with Mavic Cross Rides).
Here's my thing... the bike came with a Truvativ IsoFlow crankset and Alivio gears. After some indexing teething issues, since I installed new gear shifters (and cables) when I changed my brakes, the Alivio setup has been great. I have no desire to change it as it's been working fine (and I'm a gear junkie, moving up and down my cassette ALL the time).
I am having real trouble understanding how upgrading parts of the drive system helps with the overall performance of a bike. From what I've read, it's the cassette (a consumable - I'm on my second) which ultimately determines whether one can change gear during load (any Hyperglide cassette and chain should allow this?) and at the end of the day, both derailleurs are really just cables that are pulled one way or another - surely there is only so fast such a gear change can take place. I also imagine the IsoFlow cranks have to be of a standard to withstand a certain battering and show no signs of snapping any time soon!
I recently took a trip to Afan and was very proud of the way my hardtail stood up to the trails. It rides like a dream (especially as on the second day, my suspension bedded in nicely after months of commuting lockout). On the uphills, where gear changing was required, Claud performed faultlessly. It is obvious that suspension and brakes undoubtedly affect performance, but I am struggling to get my head around everyone's obsession with XT, especially as those elements of the trails we all love so much probably don't require much pedalling or gear changing anyway. The difference in price between the entry level derailleurs and cranksets I've got and the likes of SLX and XT kit is quite significant and at some point, when all the Alivio dies I'm going to need to replace it. Are we simply talking weight, how long they last and less maintenance?
weight, slickness of shift, looks.
there is definitely a point of diminishing returns.
Apparently the more expensive stuff lasts longer.
My problem is that I normally brake stuff before it wears out.
You raise a good point, basically you are correct it is a game of diminishing returns, you loose a little weight, and depending on how often you hurl the bike in the mud, neglect maintenance and grind the mechs back and fourth you make some gains in durability, but a well maintained Alivio mech should last a good few years, where a neglected XT will still die pretty quickly…
The one thing that is maybe more noticeable after a few years of use is the shift performance, cheaper mechs will have less durable bushes and springs, and cheaper shifters will have similarly less durable components, everything wears with use, but plastic parts worked over in grit however well looked after will not out perform brass or steel equivalents.
I have a 15 year old STX mech sat in my spares box, it’s probably had 10 years or so of mixed use over it’s life time so far, it no longer has the original jockey wheels, and the springs are noticeably less springy, it might not shift as well these days as my current SLX or Tiagra mechs, but having looked after it since purchase I know I can rely on it if I need to use it in an emergency.
Maintenance is really the key to getting the best out of drive train parts, keep them as clean as you can, lubricate them properly where possible, keep them well adjusted.
In looking at potential upgrades, I have been suspecting the investment is not worth it. On lastibility, if we're talking in the region of three to four times the price for XT vs Alivio, we'd then expect XT kit to last that much longer in comparison, which I'm not sure it would (five years for Alivio = 15 to 20 years for XT, ten years of Alivio = 30 to 40 years of XT??!). When properly indexed, I find the Alivio kit to shift very quickly so I guess I have to ride an XT equipped hardtail to fully understand the difference in the speed and smoothness of shifting, but I feel once the derailleur has moved (a relatively fast process of releasing or tightening cable tension) it is the cassette and chain that are doing all the hard work in that respect. Once a cassette wears out, I imagine you'd find an expensive derailleur does nothing to stop chain slip. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm confused... but these top-end drive systems seem to only make sense for regular, competitive cycling.
As Del mentions though, XT kit is prettier. That's something I DO understand!
I think money is probably better spent on the less disposable parts of the bike and if what you have is working for you then stick with it. One advantage of better quality kit is that it tends to be easier to set up but again you seem to have no problem in doing that.There is of course the Rohloff if you want a drive train that lasts.
It’s all relative, I currently have a stop gap Alivio 8spd shifter on my trail bike driving an SLX rear mech and I would say the shifting isn’t on a par with the older LX 9spd I have moving the Tiagra on my DH bike, but it’s a marginal difference, I can live with the cheaper crappier shifter for now till I wear out the cassette and switch it over to a 9spd cassette and shifter in the summer (probably Deore, maybe SLX)
The other thing to consider moving up the range is features like dual release and the slightly better shift lever shapes, which all help improve feel and operation.
I guess what I’m saying is if you want to see a more marked improvement in the operation of your drivetrain, change your shifters to something blingier before you bother with the mechs, I reckon the likes of Deore/SLX probably offer better function relative to value when compared with XT, simply because they are functionally where XT was maybe 3-4 years ago, you don’t have to layout the cash for XT, there are pretty good options between Alivio and XT groups…
Ahhh, that might explain why my teething issues went away when I replaced the integrated shifters...
Thanks for all the replies folks, sounds like if a drop in performance is noticed, I'm best:
1) changing/regreasing gear cables first
2) consider new shifters altogether
3) replace the mech if there's no improvement
With regards to cranks, I suspect this is where the greatest weight advantage could clearly be gained, though until mine snap (would it be the BB that's likely to give way first?), I'll stick with them (a small amount of additional weight in the middle of the bike, nearer the centre of gravity, I'm less concerned about). And chainrings, cassettes and chains are consumables which will always need replacing.
I'll bear in mind Deore/SLX - it's likely I haven't been riding my bike long enough (only 18 months) to experience the kind of wear that we're talking about.
mainly weight and smoothness.
compare XT to deore rings and oyu will find that the XT has ramping pins, and a machined surface to aid smoother shifting. so some design and cost goes in there.
NO drivechain likes being shifted under load.
doesnt matter if its a 100 quid all in alvio setup, or and XTR setup, it still makes baby jesus cry.
change the mechs if there is too much free play in them (that will be a rattle)
change this shifters when they are tired and no amount of cleaning makes them smooth again.
change the cables regularly.
friction in the cables adds load to the shifters and wears them out quicker.
keeping clean cables means ure shifters can last for years untouched.
same for chains. keep a chain from over stretching, and your cassettes and rings can last for years too
Cranks wise I’d guess your Isoflows are ISIS fitting the BB’s for which are pretty poor in terms of bearing life (you will notice them creaking eventually), again I’d say the current Deore HT2 crankset is pretty good value, and can be picked up for ~ £50-£60 which, when you get to the point of needing new chainrings on your existing cranks, isn’t much more than the cost of replacing 3 chainrings, yes HT2 should be lighter but be aware that stock shimano BB life isn’t amazing, they are serviceable and as with other parts this can extend service life, but odds on eventually you will end up looking for an aftermarket HT2 BB replacement…
Basically you can never win, the upgrade path is an infinite one the only limiting factor is your income Vs your personal BS filter, it’s good that you’re looking at it in terms of function before fashion, keep that mindset ask on here for personal experiences of parts read reviews and shop around for the best deals, that’s about all you can do…
I have definitely found that maintenance is the best bet for a smooth running bike - seeing rusty chains around town sends shivers down my spine! My riding style, even when commuting, is to stay on the middle ring as much as possible (try it - you'll sweat all the air out of your lungs, but over pedalling will help you on off-road up-hills. I commute on knobblies to make me work harder). As such, moving between rings is not really an issue for me. Only when going up-hill off-road do I use the smaller ring. This didn't cause me any issues at Afan, but I can understand that in a race, split second shifting gains would make a difference.
I'm gonna stick to my budget approach until my skills reach the point where it's causing me problems. Which is unlikely!
Cookeaa, I tightened and regreased my BB at the weekend, funnily enough. Got rid of an annoying creak, but I am eager to change to something more durable as it's the second time it's needed regreasing. My headset and BB are the next items on the list to be upgraded - sounds like when my rings need changing, that's the best time to switch the BB to something a little stronger, along with compatible cranks, unless it's just the middle one that's worn. Got my eye on a headdoctor for the headset.