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Anyone know of a good article or video on this technique?
No.
No no no.
Ref endless STW topic "skids are for kids, discuss".
Unless you've got your own land to play on/rip up.
but is that it, grab a hand full of rear brake and make a mess of the land? I thought there was more to it?
UK Bike park has some trails which means you need to do it, and to be honest I don't see many downhillers going fast with a locked up rear....
Don't worry GlenP I fear for trail longevity too...
The OP isn't asking how to skid.
Not seen any topics but I love it. Theres an awesome corner for doing this on one of my regular rides. Sweeping left hander on dirt into a short descent in the trees. Come into it at speed, touch the back brake and turn into the corner to kick the back end out and lay the bike over to the left. End up going down about 10ft sideways and it feels great!
Have a look on IMBIKEMAG there's a couple of good articles on cornering.
Isn't learning the limits of your traction helpful for racing?
I realise it's a matter of terminology, but going 10ft sideways [i]is[/i] skidding.
Just because it takes more skill than banging on the back brake, doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to ride on shared trails.
My wheels are still turning so its drifting, not skidding.
It's still skidding [i]sideways[/i]
Where do you get your soap boxes from glenp, do you get a bulk discount?
Drifting, skidding, whatever. It isn't rolling.
FWIW, any idiot can slam on the back brake and turn the bars whilst the back wheel is locked. That is going to f*ck trails right up.
Drifting a corner is very different.
its all in the hips.
girls love skids... end of discussion
Skidding is just a loss of traction, whether it be sideways, backwards or straight on. It's about the best way of trashing trails for everyone else if they're not concrete.
FWIW, any idiot can slam on the back brake and turn the bars whilst the back wheel is locked. That is going to f*ck trails right up.Drifting a corner is very different.
It's not MUCH different. It might take different technique, but it's still ripping the trails up.
Bloody hell, another one. What's your problem al? I merely referenced previous very long discussions where it has been discussed that skidding (in all forms) wears trails out pretty damned fast. If everyone did it we wouldn't have much left to ride on - fortunately most people choose not to.
if done properly the weight will be on the front; the back wheel will drift across the ground without causing as much damage as a skid.
If everyone did it we wouldn't have much left to ride on
lol - where would the trail go?
Give it a rest.
Skidding = slamming on your back brake and locking the rear wheel.
Drifting = carefully and skillfully kicking the back end of the bike into the outside of a turn whilst turning the bars into it, causing the back end to arc, wheels still turning. The back wheel will be about 50/60 degrees to the direction you're travelling and will be turning because its in contact with the ground that allows it to move rather than it being say at 90 degrees which wouldn't allow the wheel to move and yes, then cause a skid (although it your back wheel was at 90 degrees to the direction you're travelling in, you'd probably have more to worry about that whether you were pulling a skid or not!).
if done properly the weight will be on the front; the back wheel will drift across the ground without causing as much damage as a skid.
I don't tend to skid with my weight back, so isn't that the same?
It's all for vanity anyway, admit it 😀
The back wheel will be about 50/60 degrees to the direction you're travelling and will be turning because its in contact
It's still skidding, you do realise that don't you? It's still dragging sideways over the trail.
You know when your tracking is out on your car and it shreds your tyres in no time? That's because they're 1-2 degrees out of line and skidding sideways while turning. Same on the trail, only you're talking 30+ degrees, so think about the level of scrub involved!
A little rear wheel drift only happens to me by accident on fast, muddy corners, and is quite exciting! It's not a braking thing though.
I know what drifting is. The wheel is moving sideways across the ground as well as forwards. Not locked, but not just rolling along either. Skidding, basically. Just because it takes more skill doesn't mean it's a good idea.
: Start of lesson :
Just ride raly fast into a corner and make this noise just as you begin to turn.....BRAAAAAAAAAAAP
: end of lesson :
glenp only kidding 😀
Very few folk can drift, I bet it makes **** all contribution to trail damage.
Find a gravelly corner with a bit of a berm on the outside. Go in (a little) too fast, aiming for a line a foot or two inside the berm. Keep your weight back and hands OFF the brakes. Get it right and the bike should slide out to the base of the berm and no further.
With a bit of practice you'll be able to get the wheels ploughing through loose surfaces in much the same way a skier ploughs through powder snow.
Glenp I really can't believe that you're even tryin to make an argument for not drifting. Are you out of your mind? If you think those of that can drift corners are going to stop because of trail wear you're seriously deluded.
you should see what the heavy rain does to some trails 😯 i've even seen sediment and rocks that started at the top of a hill end up halfway down!!!! rain causes much more damage than the odd locked back brake from what i've seen.
i've been out there with lots of scientific measuring stuff and i can safely conclude that the weather damages stuff, as do people walking, people riding, people skidding, animals mating whilst wearing studded bondage gear and so on....
I though this was part of riding a bike off road! Ride most days and drift most days, though rarely as intentionally as I would like. If I follow my son or his mates, too quick for me to stay with, their wheels (back and front) slide / drift (rarely if ever lock up) as they get round most corners, long ones, switch backs, tech ones, even berms. We are off road vehicles looking for grip and losing it, MTBs are more like motor cross and rallying than driving a car on the road.
As for vids watch some of the 4X or WorldCup DH ones for people drifting in control. Bet Jedi drifts, could be good to do a course with.
or did you mean drifting doughnuts on a push bike!?:
edit as Rudeboy says!!!
Scandinavian Flick, stylee at 1m:10
[url= http://www.mtbfreeride.tv/tv/artikel/491/folge-40-unterwegs-mit-mario-lenzen-finale-ligure-part-1 ]Sorry about the crap 'SHON' song[/url]
You can make the back end drift on a loose corner by dabbing the ground with your inside foot so the weight goes onto your foot for a fraction of a second, unweighting the tyre. No braking required. Entering the corner you can stick your leg out forwards and decide where to dab. I learnt it after seeing JMC do it in a Vid many years ago 🙂
you should see what the heavy rain does to some trails i've even seen sediment and rocks that started at the top of a hill end up halfway down!!!! rain causes much more damage [s]than the[/s] [b]as a result of[/b] odd locked back brake from what i've seen.
I got some great drifting done during the heavy snow, if you got the back wheel out far enough it 'caught' and the bike would want to straighten out. If you flicked your hips the other way you could end up slaloming down the pavement like a mogul skier. 😀
[url=
MTB, but two wheels and hella-cool...[/url]
My last word on the subject.
Drifting (as in the motorsport). Its not skidding is it? Skidding is what Barry does in his Vauxhall Corsa in Asda car park on a night when he flies around pulling his handbrake.
Me, I love drifting. And skidding. And wheelying. And endoing.
I know what drifting is. The wheel is moving sideways across the ground as well as forwards. Not locked, but not just rolling along either. Skidding, basically. Just because it takes more skill doesn't mean it's a good idea.
All contextual really isn’t it?
You tend to find the tallentless Marys who aren’t willing to ride corners properly will brake heavily on the approach to corners, so they can trundle through at a minimal pace (probably jabbing at the brakes on the way through the corner too). Even if they don’t lock up and skid doing this they will place extra pressure at different points on the trail surface and enough of this nonsense over time does result in divets, puddles and wave/washboard effect corner entries in a lot of cases (we’ve all seen trails like this)…
Riders regularly difting through a corner tends to result in uniform displacement of material through the apex of a corner towards the outside, often forming a mini berm and/or uniform grove/rut in that corner, at least a smother, easier and often, actually safer to ride line than a bumpy, diveted, knackered trail from brake jabbers…
Most trails are built considering braking points and corners/feature which allow an “Off the brakes” rider to carry speed smoothly with minimal damage to the surfaces (riding with “flow” if you like), a bit of drifting is often expected in certain places as that carried speed may well usefully feed into the next section of the trail…
Just because you’re riding slowly doesn’t mean you’re not damaging the trails for everyone else, pretty much everything you do on a trail causes some degree of damage, there are different forms of damage and some have more of an effect than you might think….
I am confused. I want to ride my bike but I'm concerned for mother earth, what ever will I do?!
dont do it shandy!!!
you should see the state of some of the cliffs on the south coast.... they've been battered by the weather so imagine what riding down them would do.
if you want there to be a planet for your kids or grandkids to enjoy, then for mother-earth's sake dont leave your house.
Using SPDs helps because you can feel more precisely what the back wheel is doing and "place" it better. This is helpful generally but particularly when traction is an issue. On the other hand it's harder to drop a foot, so it's a judgment call.
Running low tyre pressures is key. I only just really clocked this.
Swing your hips and gradually (not in one harsh movement) ease the tyres onto their sidewalls - it takes a while to get this feel of rocking the bike onto the edges (it is exactly like carving on skis).
When you begin the turn the front wheel should be straight. As you go through the turn your bars will naturally turn so the wheel is actually pointing in the opposite direction to that in which you are turning. This makes it easier to get onto your sidewalls. This should happen naturally - if you resist it in a drift and try to point the front wheel in the direction of the corner, you'll probably highside!
It's not a technique that's useful that often - fire roads really. If you're doing it on a road, it's probably accidental and you're probably heading for roadrash.
Well, maybe you all take me too earnestly. My point is provocative. Obviously going outdoors at all has some effect, it's a question of degree. Personally I think part of the skill is riding and leaving no mark, or at least not intentionally and not any more than is necessary while still making enjoyably rapid progress.
There are others who like to tear it up a bit more - it's a big world and there is room for all kinds. But the only reason the skiddy few can carry on like that is because not everyone does it.
Drifting is soooo last year. Levitation is where its at
Or maybe just levity, Jedi.
dabbing the ground with your inside foot so the weight goes onto your foot for a fraction of a second, unweighting the tyre. No braking required.
Ahha that's the trick is it? I'll try that ta!
and all I wanted was some advice..... 😯
Agreed. I now have skidmarks.....! 🙄
No I was serious
You're better off doing it in the car, using weight transfer or left foot braking against the throttle (in a FWD car at least). At least that way the trails don't get ripped up 😆
Jedi, have you become a zen Buddhist?
The video of Sam Hill doing it looked like he was leaning the bike over until the point it washed out, then immediately catching it by turning into the skid/slide/drift with his front wheel.
Looked very difficult to get right, and also the sort of thing you need a big wide fast corner for.
Best place to learn to drift is wet brick. Just like the massive 'pedestrian' area out the front of my shop, that has worn many a Small Block 8.
It's a combination of lean, unweight, and flick the hips/push through the pedals. Start by using a dab of the foot to get the unweight. Over time, foot-up drifting is possible, and amazing.
A certain top 20 junior DH rider perfected the art of "feet-up 180 drift to fakie roll-back" right out here on our bricks, on my SE hardtail...
There's a question of responsibility. Presumably you've all heard the old line 'take only pictures, leave only footprints/tyre tracks'?
I'd suggest the definition of tyretracks there does not extend to drifting or skidding. Such marks are possibly the most irritating visual reminder of the presence of mountain bikers to the 'anti-bike-brigade' as as such merely hands them ammunition to banish us from the countryside or at the very least to trail centres.
Secondly any activity which causes the loosening/removal of topsoil accelerates weathering and as such should be done with respect to any ecologically sensitive areas.
Oh...and final thought...if you're skidding. You're out of control.
if you're skidding. You're out of control.
Eh?
It's a combination of lean, unweight, and flick the hips/push through the pedals. Start by using a dab of the foot to get the unweight. Over time, foot-up drifting is possible, and amazing.
Cutties not drifting.
You need to be getting loose to drift or be going quick. A proper drift means both wheels are going sideways at the same time.
Cutties are something you do on a snowboard, not a bike. Same as you don't ollie over obsticles, or handbrake turn on hairpin bends.
Cutties are something you do on a snowboard, not a bike. Same as you don't ollie over obsticles, or handbrake turn on hairpin bends.
7 Minuites in, watch it!
8)
Is 'world's longest skid (distance not time)' in the Guinness Book of Records?
[i]Riding[/i] damages trails. Real drifting does a bit but it's not on the same order as just locking up the rear.
Someone on a 29er skidding it up around Jamaica.
joe@brookscycles - MemberBest place to learn to drift is wet brick.
No, no , no, no, no.
The best place to learn drifting is on an enduro bike , on a fire road, in the championship class, at a british championship enduro, on a tight check.
Oh and yes it does cause erosion. Still feels beyond cool though. 8)
RTFM! Singletrack issue 42, page 54, talking about riding rutted & bermed corners fast. According to "Nigel Page [who] runs the Chain Reaction/Intense downhill team, races Masters Downhill at the top level and is also terrifyingly fast on a bike"
"Nigel explained that your outside foot needs to be down with all of your weight pushing the bike into the ground. Meanwhile, you lean the bike over far further than you think is wise while keeping pressure on the bars to get that front wheel literally scraping the inside edge of the rut. Finally you need to move your hips quickly from a position low and over the centre of the bike to somewhere over your right foot.This initiates a terrifying sounding rear wheel slide and magically lines up your bike for the exit of the corner, where you pedal away with gusto."
[url=
Drift Ha! Ha! Ha! [/url]
roadie_in_denial - MemberThere's a question of responsibility. Presumably you've all heard the old line 'take only pictures, leave only footprints/tyre tracks'?
I'd suggest the definition of tyretracks there does not extend to drifting or skidding. Such marks are possibly the most irritating visual reminder of the presence of mountain bikers to the 'anti-bike-brigade' as as such merely hands them ammunition to banish us from the countryside or at the very least to trail centres.
Secondly any activity which causes the loosening/removal of topsoil accelerates weathering and as such should be done with respect to any ecologically sensitive areas.
Oh...and final thought...if you're skidding. You're out of control.
Bollocks!
[s]With all due respect [/s]that's the sort of tripe you'd expect from some Eco-numpty who believes the British "Countryside" is an entirely natural environment and not the product of several thousand years of ape descendants hunting, farming building and warring,
"Ecological sensitivity"?!!? you what?
From the race that gave us the Motorway, Chernobil and the Exxon Valdez...
You want me to feel guilty for disturbing some top soil?
I do the odd bit of trail maintenance too where I deem it necessary, I've been riding my local trails for a few years now, the levels of trail erosion have remained pretty consistent and the "damage" such as it is is limited to the trails themselves, pine needle/leaf fall and seasonal weather changes mean they generally recover over the course of 12 months, to the same nominal condition, the local wildlife, Deer, Owls and Squirrels haven't left in protest at the state of the woods... Dog Walkers and their scratty little mutts leaving shite everywhere probably have more environmental impact that MTBs.
"Apologist Eco-fundamentalist Mountain bikers", Yet another ****ty niche eh?
What type of beard, functionally crippled bicycle, item of ill fitting Girls clothing and brand of low carbon, Hemp-beaded tires do I need in order to join that particular "Collective of individuals" type clique?
Do tell...
you sat up all night thinking about that post didn't you......... 🙂
People who moan about drifting are probably jealous of those who can do it.
It's very hard to explain how to do it, best is to practise on a loose surface with lots of space. Try holding onto the bars hard (to make sure you catch the counter steer when it slides and not just stack it and let the bars turn too far), weight slightly forward, outside foot down. Lean the bike over more than yourself, turn sharply and unweight the outside foot and then sharply reweight it, that will prevoke the slide. To hold a big slide once it starts going sharply push the bars down to make the bike lean harder and thus slide longer. With practise it possible to get the handlebar to hit the floor and not actually crash, you'll stop from the slide slowing you down but you'd be amazed how much more lean angle you can hold once the bike is drifting.
You're entitled to your opinions cookeaa, just as I am mine. No call for the blatant lack of respect or bad language.
Awwwww Diddums.... 😥
@Jedi - sadly it took a wee while to compose, you're far too right we keyboard warriors are a sad lot really...
if you're skidding. You're out of control.
"If you aint sliding, you aint riding..."
I was once told by the shopkeeper
ride, slide whatever..just ride
skidding is cool
check out Joe barnes skid in the dukes of hazard clip
http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010/09/midweek-mini-movies-14/
now thats a skid
Threads like this really bring out th best in stw. 😐
Threads like this really bring out th best in stw.
Indeed it does. The world becomes polarised into two groups of people.
Those that can drift and those that wish they could drift but since they cant try to argue that's it bad for the trails. 😉
it's OFFICIAL : Yeti endorses drifting! 8)
(pics taken from Yeti website)[IMG] 
[/IMG]
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
This thread is sooooo lame, and now I've caught the lame cooties by reading it.
BTW drifting is evil, that is until I can master it, then I'll believe its like kittens licking the topsoil.
if you're skidding. You're out of control.
I wasn't going to add anymore to this thread but I've just got to say (because I did literally laugh out loud when I read the above), thats complete sheeeiiite.
Have you seen those world rally drivers, on every bend there like totally outta control man
i shuoted skids are for kids at my mate last night and his reply was simply "well why arent you skidding then?"
we can all learn from this wise man.
If any of you want to came and see the erosion caused by the skill-less locking up the back wheels compared to to the "skill-full" drifting come on out on a trail maintainance dig night first Tuesday of every month.
No difference at all by the way, it still puts the dirt from the tread of the trail into the bushes- that's where the trail goes by the way. Any time the trail leaves the tread or migrates down hill you take away cross slope and makes drainage harder. Harder/slower drainage eventually leads to soggy wet/washed out trail.
Two things, and then that's it.
It is just such crap to claim that the only reason someone might object to "drifting" is that they can't do it.
Just because someone might give a shit about unduly accelerating erosion, or being considerate of other people and not giving the impression that mountain biking is a hooligan activity - that doesn't immediately mean that that person lives at the furthest extreme of hippy-dippy thinking. That also is a moronic argument, even if you do type it out into a 200 word rant.
Those that can drift and those that wish they could drift but since they cant try to argue that's it bad for the trails.
FWIW I can do it but not very well, and mainly on dry dusty trails like I rode in the Alps - not much of that oop north - drifting in control on uneven loose wet rocks is usually beyond me really.
I think it's pretty clear it will cause a bit more erosion than not doing it, how much more and whether you think that matters is a different issue.
I drift on footpaths.
Discuss.