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I’ve got a couple of properly long rides planned for this year <<fingers crossed>> and having read around a bit, one of the obvious “efficiency savings” is to do stuff like eating, without stopping. Makes perfect sense.
It sounds stupid – but how…?
I didn’t learn to ride until I was 19 (I’m now 46), so many of the basic “kid skills” like riding no handed (and wheelies) have passed me by. I can ride no handed on some bikes, but its full concentration and there’s no way on earth I’d commit to doing anything that stopped me getting both hands back on the bars instantly (so doing anything other than “look ma, no hands”), and even then the locations where I’m happy doing so (quiet, flat, smooth, good visibility) are so few and far between. Risk-v-reward seems massively skewed the wrong way – see Froomey’s little whoopsie for further details – essentially that’s cost him his career. Its not something I’ve really thought worth practicing as I can’t actually see any safe practical applications, despite 25+ years of almost daily cycling.
Even the easy stuff like drinking – when? If I’m climbing, not a hope as it’ll bollox my breathing. If I’m descending, not a hope as I’m not taking a hand off the bars, the best I can do is a snatched glug as I go over the crest in that gap where my heartrate has subsided enough that I won’t cough it straight back out; and being down in the hooks in the big ring trying to make up for my shocking climbing. (I guess I’m lucky in that I don’t need to drink much – 70 or 80 miles on road is easily achievable outside heatwave conditions on a single small bottle)
Eating – again the logistics just don’t work. I’m a fan of full finger gloves all year, but outside of a month or 2 in summer when they’re not necessary for thermal reasons, how do you pick up, open, whatever you need to do in full fingers? Even assuming I can extract it from storage - I’ve tried opening bars one handed with my teeth. I’d be faster stopping – and I won’t end up dropping the little tag end of packaging. On bigger rides, I’ll have a little top tube bag thingy with a baggy of mixed nuts/raisins/M&Ms in, but, finding somewhere quiet enough I can get it open, get into the plastic bag, get a handful out without spilling it, then manoeuvre it into my mouth without dropping it all, then be able to chew it without inhaling/choking on it, or crashing is virtually beyond me.
Which brings me onto breathing. No 2 ways about it, I’m a mouth breather as soon as my heartrate is above rest. Breathing through my nose just doesn’t work – its ALWAYS full of snot -if I try, my heartrate spikes instantly and I feel like I’m drowning. So trying to eat and breathe – even spinning gently along the road just falls over almost immediately. I have bad memories of inhaling most of a mini pork pie at around 6.30am on the South Lakes 100 a couple of years back – the time spent coughing fragments of the thing back up, easily outweighed any time lost by stopping to eat it, and I ended up spreading most of it all over the landscape rather than it being inside me!
So tips and tricks please…?
The difficulty of drinking whilst descending was a key motivation for the development of the Camelbak.
The difficulty of drinking whilst descending was a key motivation for the development of the Camelbak.
So, 3 Camelbaks then? Drink, Soup and Angel Delight?
Before anything else make sure you have easy access to food and drink. Bar bag, stem cell, top tube bag, back pocket, whatever suits you. If you put thought into this, how you pack your food, etc, there should be no need to do anything no handed.
I think you answer most of your own questions. Eat on the easiest sections, along the flat when you're just cruising. Climbs and decents are rarely a good idea.
Gloves don't help. Personally I only wear them in the worst conditions and putting them on and taking them off is generally a no handed affair. If you're uncomfortable with it I'd just say take a second to stop. But as far as riding no handed goes, I find leaning back helps, body straight up from the seat tube. Sometimes it can be harder on a packed bike, especially if you have anything strapped to the bars.
Don't over think it, just make it as easy as possible before you set off. Ask yourself which foods are going to give you the least hassle. Crumbly cheese in a sandwich for example is never a good idea...
If you feel this is getting in the way of your riding long distances then you need to practise it, as much as you would working on your fitness or whatever.
I'm not much good at riding hands free either so have gone on rides with the specific intention of trying it on quiet flat roads and a little bit at a time, there's definitely a knack to it, look ahead, use your core, if you can walk and chew gum at the same time you can ride hands free.
Same with taking a bottle out, you should be able to do that at any time, even when descending, it's really not that hard, honest. Practise that when you feel safe. And reaching into a pocket or frame bag for snacks shouldn't be such an issue unless you have severe coordination problems elsewhere in your life.
At the risk of sounding condescending none of these things are particularly tricky, it's just doing them again and again in a safe space (even an empty car park to begin with if necessary) until they become second nature.
The breathing and eating thing, I think you need to find a workaround for that, but if stopping and eating is quicker and less panic ridden than doing it on the move just do that, it's not a race is it?
Sounds like you're talking about road riding.
I don't like stopping, so for long rides I have one bottle of water and one with energy powder.
And I stuff my jersey pockets with gels and bars, which can be consumed on the flat (or easy climbs) with one hand.
Use teeth to open the packaging and stuff the wrapper back in a designated pocket.
for me whats the point unless you enjoy the ride - and that means time for a picnic or two
Personally i run out of miles in my legs before I run out of time
As above, choose your easy sections for eating and drinking.
I also found that keeping any stops you do have for maximum gain/minimum faff is a real boost and something to look forward to rather than an interruption .
So I try and plan when and where I am going to do these in advance ,it does all add up over the bigger distances.
Well eating and breathing at the same time is something we all do all the time, doesn't matter if intake is via nose or mouth, air and food/water have to pass through the same passageway. You can't have got this far without being able to do it.
You can't be hyperventilating as soon as you do *any* activity so it's just a matter of pre-planning and practice.
When you know you want to eat or drink back off the intensity of your riding a couple of minutes beforehand, let your breathing settle down and then take small bites/sips letting you get your breath back between each bite.
+1 for stem cells, top tube bags and the like.
as above, practise, it's a skill. Also, the faster you're going the more stable the bike is (although if it goes wrong the impact is I guess worse)
There are gels that have captive tops (Torq maybe) so the top doesn't come off, making the one handed teeth tear easier.
I know what you mean about mouth breathing, I agree. That's why I generally prefer gels as opposed to bars even though I'm far from racy nowadays, no full mouths. I do take bars but save them for a snatched bit at traffic lights, or actually stop every now and then. Eating them while riding, I can squirrel half a bar away like a hamster if needed and just work through.
As for stopping - if you feel safer, do it. I know the pro's say that to get good times you can't waste time on stops but honestly you aren't laying a table for a picnic. Stop, foot down, bar out of pocket, eat, back on..... a minute at the most. How fast do you want to be - the answer is 'really' then you need to practise and eat on the move, if 3 or 4 minutes on a long ride makes no odds, practise efficient stops anyway.
Lastly - you might be able to do a long ride on a small bottle, doesn't mean you should. Hydration has an effect on performance and if you want to be as good as you can be, work on that too.
I used to ride with a club a fair bit when I was a student and my top tip is to ask someone else to kindly hold your helmet for you whilst removing a layer that doesn't have a full zip whilst riding. Avoids the rapidly trying to put it back on again when it gets stuck about eye level.
As above practice helps and using the right packaging. Getting a sandwich out of the bottom of a long narrow bread bag is much harder than unfolding a bit of foil or cling film. Generally gentle pedalling on flat bits for faffing in pockets and eating on the go. This is easier if you're in the Fens that the Lakes.
I don't know if the above count as experience or my own youthful stupidity.
Common wisdom is that you refuel better when not riding, just aim to actually eat when you've stopped, and have something easy to snack on, or energy drink, whilst riding?
Most people have to stop at some point on long rides, if nothing else to top up on water or take a piss. It's only a couple of extra minutes to shove a pork pie in your face.
What about something like:
https://huel.com/products/huel-ready-to-drink
Not tried it myself, and not sure if it would work in a hydration pack, or water bottle, but may be worth a thought. A screw cap should still be manageable with gloves.
If I was in your position, I'd just accept the need to stop occasionally, and enjoy the rides! Good luck!
This is mostly road/gravel related - I've yet to come across an mtb ride, even solo, when there's little enough faffing to not be able to fuel at the top or bottom, and there's VERY few off road descents I've done that are long enough to need a drink on the way. (and yes, I do use a camelbak). The big rides I've got planned are gravel ones.
Funnily enough @JoB, someone wrote a very nice little book complete with some pretty pictures to look at about doing longer rides - might have sparked this thought train.
Practice. Hmmm. This is something I'm *ing terrible at. I REALLY struggle to get my head around "wasting time" practicing riding my bike, when I could be, actually, y'know, doing it for real. See also my inability to do wheelies. Yes I know its a problem...
you should be able to do that at any time, even when descending, it’s really not that hard, honest.
Its not the actual physical doing it - especially on road (although my gammy shoulder dislikes getting stuff out of jersey pockets). Its the dealing with all the other *s I'm having to share the space with. There's no way I'm riding at 30+mph on a UK road, without having my fingers within instant reach of a brake lever. I've had too many near misses to voluntarily put myself in a situation where I can't react immediately to other road users random actions.
Food wise - write off gels immediately - horrendous things. The rest of the time, on rides long enough to need food, it'd be a mix of Clif bars, fruit/nut/m&ms and the odd bit of savoury stuff like biltong or mini porkpies/sossrolls/cocktail sausages. As mentioned, I do use a TT bag, but its still a lot of faff to get something out, opened and into my gob, let alone choke it down. The whole process is just not pleasant, especially on a non-billiard smooth surface.
Lastly – you might be able to do a long ride on a small bottle, doesn’t mean you should. Hydration has an effect on performance and if you want to be as good as you can be, work on that too.
Again - I'm sure you're right here, but I just don't "do" thirsty. I work(ed) from home, and there's many a day I'll go from brekky (glass of OJ, espresso) to the missus coming home at 6pm with no other liquid passing my lips - just doesn't occur to me. A typical 30 or 40 mile midweek ride, I'll take no food and have maybe 1 or 2 swigs out of the bottle? On the other hand, if I pass a cafe that I know does a proper good cuppa...
I find stem cells and the like better than back pockets on long rides. I seem to jar or cramp my shoulder muscles when delving into rear jersey pockets.
Practice. Hmmm. This is something I’m *ing terrible at. I REALLY struggle to get my head around “wasting time” practicing riding my bike, when I could be, actually, y’know, doing it for real. See also my inability to do wheelies. Yes I know its a problem…
you should be able to do that at any time, even when descending, it’s really not that hard, honest.
Its not the actual physical doing it – especially on road (although my gammy shoulder dislikes getting stuff out of jersey pockets). Its the dealing with all the other *s I’m having to share the space with. There’s no way I’m riding at 30+mph on a UK road, without having my fingers within instant reach of a brake lever. I’ve had too many near misses to voluntarily put myself in a situation where I can’t react immediately to other road users random actions.
Incorporate this practise into a ride then, it's really very easily done, if you can't find a couple of miles of quiet road to do this then you really need to rethink your routes 🙂
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours"
Personally I go for super-easy stuff to grab from a back pocket or a bar bag and shove in my face to keep me ticking over, but accept that at least every hour or two I’m going to have to stop and upended up something a little more substantial, which probably only costs a minute if you choose a spot like a junction where you’d come to a halt anyway. Drinking is just a bit of practice, personally I’ve never found it hard. (Though like you I’m a mouth breather because the inside of my nose is bent to buggery; I just save the drink for the flat bits.)
I tend to need Proper Food every four hours, five at a push, so that needs a decent stop which is an opportunity to refill the grab bag.
Not that it’s remotely an issue at the moment—I’ve not even hit 100km for a while now 😂
Cycling no handed is worth learning if you intend non stop cycling. Apart from letting you add remove layers and eat it let's you stretch and give yourself a bit of a rest.
It also looks pro as ****.
Op
I think you need to 'come out' and really state your mission distance/time scale.
Only then can the STW massive show their full piss taking deep understanding and help you succeed.😉😂🤣
Riding no-handed is something my ten year old seems to be able to do all day long, but something my mind balks at, so I'm in the same boat as you.
I tend to go for a small pinch of trail mix / biltong fairly regularly to keep myself topped up on long rides, and also take something more 'foodlike', as stuff like gels really mess with my guts. Salad, chicken, rice and a bit of chill sauce in a wrap seems to work for me, and there's a way of wrapping stuff like that in parchment or waxcloth that was popularised by the Feedzone Cookbook a while back. I prefer Wingnut bags because the pockets in the wings hold All Of The Things for long MTB rides. Not sure about gravel - I've got a grovel bike but have been too caught up with work and life recently to get a good long ride in on that.
Get some rollers and practice?
I tend to eat Söreen bars and cliff shots, I cut the tops off the wrappers before I leave so I can use one hand and my teeth to get the ‘food’ out. I’m a big fan of Huel so I might try that suggestion myself
Every time I think I'm getting quite good at bikes, some 14 year old wheelies past me blindfolded while stripping and reassembling a vintage watch.
Theres quite a lot in YouTube on ultra distance riding that covers this sort of thing in terms of set up and tactics.
The book Endless Perfect Circles is also probably worth a read, I really enjoyed it.
But practise will make perfect.
Again – I’m sure you’re right here, but I just don’t “do” thirsty.
You don't need to get thirsty, in fact you shouldn't.
I have a swig every 4km, that works out about a bottle every 90 mins for me. Whether I want it or not.
Same with eating, if you leave it until you feel you need it, it's already too late. Every 15km for me (of course I don't bother if I'm only on a <2hr ride, anything of any real distance and that's every 30-40 mins depending where I'm going and with who)
I think you need to ‘come out’ and really state your mission distance/time scale.
The Frontier 300 is the headline event - there's an enforced overnight cut off after 230k/22.30hrs, which I want to beat (hoping it won't be a problem, as that's about 18hrs in). I'm also wanting to do the Badger Divide - haven't decided on 2 or 3 days yet; I fancy riding to the seaside and back - just because (couple of '00 miles), and if all that goes OK, I'd have a go at Torino-Nice when we can travel again.
As much as anything, I dislike faffing and inefficiency, so if I can streamline things - all the better. There's also an annoying cycle of "don't want to stop and eat because it's wasting time" ending up in "being shit and slow because I've not eaten"
Incorporate this practise into a ride then, it’s really very easily done, if you can’t find a couple of miles of quiet road to do this then you really need to rethink your routes 🙂
“Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours”
I absolutely get what you're saying and it sounds bleeding obvious (esp the final quote), but my personal risk assessment doesn't bear it out - There's very few places where I can *see* that far ahead and behind, so what appears dead quiet now, may well be full of angry entitled prick in a Range Rover in a minute's time (even at the speed limit, that would put him a mile away when I started)
Substitute custard for Angel Delight and that would do for me!
I absolutely get what you’re saying and it sounds bleeding obvious (esp the final quote), but my personal risk assessment doesn’t bear it out – There’s very few places where I can *see* that far ahead and behind, so what appears dead quiet now, may well be full of angry entitled prick in a Range Rover in a minute’s time (even at the speed limit, that would put him a mile away when I started)
Your fear of what *might* happen far far exceeds what is actually going to happen and is getting in the way of what you want to happen, it - will - be fine
How much are you eating? You don't have to cook it as well!
I've simulated getting something out of my back pocket, opening it and transferring to one hand so the other's back on the bars and it's under 15s. Actually both can be, and in a genuine emergency drop the gel or bar if you have to.
But if that's still too risky for you get in the habit of grabbing something at enforced stops - junctions, traffic lights, etc.
One other thing (more general) - when I started riding with my old old club, it was considered etiquette to drop to the back of the bunch on a group ride before eating or taking a gilet off. Having said how with a bit of practise a 10 year old can do it, it's still sensible because if you did **** up, at least at the back you don't bring down 6 other riders. No-one ever did (**** up that is), plenty of people managed the top skill of being able to eat on the move!
theotherjonv
Full MemberYou don’t need to get thirsty, in fact you shouldn’t.
Yup. The human thirst reflex is a proper old monkey brain thing from endurance hunting on the savannah days, it basically kicks in when you absolutely need to drink, not when you should. Doesn't really work properly in the cold either.
so what appears dead quiet now, may well be full of angry entitled prick in a Range Rover in a minute’s time
I dunno where you live and normally ride, but having had a quick look at the Frontier 300 site (looks ace by the way) it's really NOT going to be like that!
You’re overthinking it. Grab a swig of water every now and again. Camelbak helps with that if it suits. Have easy to eat food (porridge bars, whatever) in your rear pocket or top tube. Grab one, open it with your teeth and eat little enough that you can still swallow. Repeat frequently.
I have cubes of spam, suspended from the peak of my road helmet, on nylon monofilament of just the right length that I can tip my head back at low speed and one pops on my mouth. You should try it.
Personal best on bike eating was on the Ironman Bolton bike course. 4 ham rolls,4 packs power bar ride shots, 4 nutrigrain. I was 70kg, so putting in 70grams of carb per hour + plenty of liquids. Scope out the route so you know the rolling bits to munch on, but it’s basically 1 thing every half hr. Lots of people were jealous of the ham rolls; I can’t bear all sweet stuff on a long day out. I had stuff in pockets and a nose bag for shovelling. Then just eat as close as you can to every half hr when you’re out and you soon get used to it.