[Closed] Does the MTB you are on dictate what you will ride?

I'll ride anything on any of the bikes.
How fast or how competently is a different matter though..

Just down to how I'm feeling at that time and perhaps who I'm with.

no, it may effect the speed, success and grace of my attempt, but I enjoy being on the 'wrong' bike as much as the 'right' one 🙂

Probably the other way round. I'll look at the area I'm planning on riding, then take the appropriate bike.

Jumps and drops are the main thing for me. they have to be smaller and have better runouts when I am on my standarg ridgid inbred. Otherwise no difference.

If I'm going to go out an try a line or a section I've never tried before I would only do it on my 5-spot

Flat pedals and better suspension makes it a bit more comfortable for pushing my limits. Once I know I can get down a section I'm generally happy on any other bike (albeit maybe not as fast or smooth)

I'm equally the other way round, I choose a bike depending on where I'm riding, what tires I think I may want, occasionally one I've not ridden in a while.

Then I ride whatever is in front of me at a speed that I feel happy with.

I tend to not ride proper modern DH stuff at all.

Nope, I ride the 130 hard tail on the same stuff as the 160 full sus. What normally dictates which bike I use is the state of repair/how clean it is rather than the capabilities or design intent.

I'll ride anything on any of the bikes. How fast or how competently is a different matter though.

Two in particular feel almost identical but one is a lot more gravity-capable than the other which has led to an number of oh shit moments

Only have one mtb, but happy to ride anything other than downhill courses on it (it was a HT, now a rigid).

I may not be as fast as some, on some routes, but I'm not having any less fun and don't feel "restricted" by only having the one bike.

nope. but what tyres I have on will influence my choice of route sometimes.

Thanks folks. It sounds as though, for most people and within reason, the bike makes very little difference, which is somewhat counter-intuitive. Geometry should matter, so you should feel more confident on one bike than another, which means that there should come a point where you don't have the confidence to ride something on one bike that you would on another.

My own experience here is closest to that of richmtb. I'm more likely to try something new on my Five, but once I've ridden something once I don't mind what I'm riding it on. I suspect my brain isn't that smart. I look at something and am trying to decide whether it "goes", but I'm not really thinking does it go on this bike.

I'll ride anything on any of the bikes. How fast or how competently is a different matter though.

Same again. Though if it's a significant gap with a dirty landing, i'll tend to avoid it on the little bike, just to avoid breaking for no real reason.

Being old and fragile I sometimes "talk myself out of" certain bits/types of trail declaring the hardtail unsuitable. If that is the case I'll go back and ride it on the full suss, where I talk myself back into riding the obstacle/feature. On many occasions , having ridden it on the susser I have a word with myself to the effect that it was only confidence that made it hard on the hardtail, and go back and ride it again on the hardtail. OK, by the time I've finished using the susser to "un-demonise" the trail, I discover more and more of what the hardtail is actually capable of, but it teaches as much about myself and my confidence than it does about the capabilities of the bike.

[quote=tthew opined]Probably the other way round. I'll look at the area I'm planning on riding, then take the appropriate bike.

THIS
However i would ride everywhere on any bike but some would be a lot less fun and a lot slower.

On the bikes I have that will take the biggest tyres - yes, will ride pretty much anything on both big bike and hardcore HT. Not actually at a hugely differing speed.

XC hardtail has a non-QR seatpost and semi slicks on, so what with the "summer" we've had, I haven't yet taken it down the sketchy stuff I was planning on exposing it to earlier in the year - but it won't take the same tyres so comes under your "sillyness" exemption.

I wont ride my cx bike down some of the local trails I'll happily launch my 6" FSer at.
Conversely I won't take my 6" FSer out on a 50mile towpath bimble.

But a bit more seriously, there's local trails that I've spotted and not ridden until I've been on my gnarpoon, once I've ridden it a couple of times on that and I know the line and know it's doable, I can then normally make it down ok (but not as comfortably) on a hardtail. I'm mainly talking steep rooty/rubbly/steppy sections here.

IMO suspension and slack angles give you a much bigger margin for error, so if you've got a bit of trail totally dialled it doesn't matter what bike you are on, but if you're still sketchy on your gravity sled it might not be the best idea to take the twitchy xc race bike down there.

Oh I'd draw the line at rigid, that definitely reduces what I can ride, even with the same tyres. Not as much as you might think, but any mistake will be punished on rigid.

All my bikes are what you would call XC so only have one type of clothing.
To all the multi discipline cyclists (DH,XC,road) , do you dress accordingly?
There's no real reason you can't wear a peaked helmet on the road or Lycra downhill.
Does your attitude change with your clothing? Do you hang loose in bright green baggies and become all serious in Lycra?

For unfamiliar trails or obstacles I always take my big bike. It has enough handling and brakes in the bank to let me ride almost anything and if there's a problem I know it's me and not the bike

Speed is the main difference for me. Bouncy bike can be thrown at certain technical things much faster. I'll take it a bit easier on the hard tail, but it's perfectly capable of doing the stuff the bouncy bike can. It's the bone shaking I get that's the issue 😀

I do pick bike based on location though more in that the bouncy bike is a bit OTT for some places. I can ride it there, but a lighter bike is just easier, especially with climbs.

For me it more about which wheel/tire combo I have. Stans Olympics with Conti's original Spped King Supersonics are great locally but would be trashed at a rocky trail centre.

It's complicated. I won't bother doing easy stuff if I'm on the big bike, it's just more fun on the harder stuff... On the hardtail, I'll do pretty much anything.

When the scandal's suspunded it only really gets used for xc mile munching but ironically when it's rigid it gets used for pretty much anything- rigid bikes on silly terrain are fun, when it's got suspension I just think "this is like my other hardtail but shit" There's really not much I ride, that I wouldn't be prepared to do on the rigid, I want to bounce it down fw world cup some time... But I wouldn't want to do that with the rebas, it's just a bit pointless

Tyres play a big part too though. The Ragley's still in pure trailcentre mode after a week of welsh trail centres and uplifts, I wouldn't take it up the golfy or to fort bill tomorrow without changing that, frinstance

I'll ride anything on any of the bikes.
How fast or how competently is a different matter though..

I know I've said it before on here, but I kept my fs for riding on stuff that I wouldn't have done on the ht. However I've yet to find anything where I ride that the ht won't handle.

It really is my 'go to' bike. I'm happy for it to be my only my now.

I don't really dress for the occasion, except that I can't bring myself to ride the big bike without baggies over the lycra, and I'm unlikely to ride anything on the XC bike that would justify pads (which I don't usually use on the ohters).
This may change soon, as the baggies are on their last legs.
Oh, and peakless roadie helmet for everything except when I'm using a full facer.

in the depths of winter (sept to june) I use the IGH hardtail, the rest of the time I'll use the FS.

I only own different bikes to allow me to do different things. I have a 7" travel bike, an XC race bike and lately a rigid 29er. There's no way I'd buy another rigid 29er or another XC race bike.

So if I'm on the Patriot I'd do stuff that's most fun on that ie trail centers or local woods, likewise if I want to do a Valleys loop I'll take the 29er because of the amount of road involved.

HOWEVER I'll do trails on the most 'wrong' bike at least once just to be perverse. I've done Cwmcarn downhill on my XC race bike for instance.

I certainly ride harder or less hard depending on the bike though. Some things are just too steep for the XC race bike to feel secure on, but not many.

Oh I'd draw the line at rigid, that definitely reduces what I can ride

I WILL do most things on the rigid but ridden completely differently ie slowly carefully rather than hitting flat out. You don't really have a choice when it's really rocky or rooty.

molgrips - Member

I WILL do most things on the rigid but ridden completely differently ie slowly carefully rather than hitting flat out.

I still hit things flat out- it's just that flat out on the rigid is sometimes really slow 😆

I'm still a bit confused by this. If a bike with slacker angles is easier to ride downhill then there must presumably be bits of trail that you could get down on a slack bike but not on a steeper angled XC bike. Or do the slack angles only really help with stability at speed i.e. is an XC bike just as capable as an Enduro bike at low speed?

Do skills coaches ever say "oh you can't ride down this bit on that", for example?

If you're thinking about low speed, you're getting into trials territory, for that stuff, id much rather be on a rigid than a FS.

A bike does what you tell it, a bike does not prevent you from doing anything.

I tend to avoid drops now I only have a hardtail. Other than that I ride where I can, at what ever speed I can manage (I.e slow)

29er HT for commuting and clocking in the miles for fitness.

26" AM for my proper riding at weekends.

there must presumably be bits of trail that you could get down on a slack bike but not on a steeper angled XC bike

There are probably some but not many. It has to be almost vertical to be too much on an XC bike. However normal very steep stuff, of the kind.of which there is lots, can be pretty sketchy on an XC racey bike and much easier on a slack angled bike.

Back in the day going OTB used to be far more common. Especially just after front suspension became popular 🙂

OK, maybe low speed was a bit misleading as I'm not really thinking trials speed, I'm just trying to understand whether slacker angles actually make it easier to ride stuff or just easier to ride it fast.

A bike does what you tell it, a bike does not prevent you from doing anything.

Fair point, but some bikes are easier to ride down tricky sections than others right? So, for a given skill level, you'd think there would be some things you could ride on one bike but not on another. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case from the responses above.

However normal very steep stuff, of the kind.of which there is lots, can be pretty sketchy on an XC racey bike and much easier on a slack angled bike.

Back in the day going OTB used to be far more common. Especially just after front suspension became popular

Thanks. I think this is what I was getting at 🙂 It's mainly the fear of an OTB that stops me riding anything. As long as I can rule that out (in my head) I'm good to go.

Is this getting into the realms of irrational?

Validating excuses?

If you convince yourself you can't do something because of the bike, you won't do it, if you treat it as the bike doesn't matter, one less thing to validate bottling.

There's a quote i've heard so many times since a young teen riding BMX through to now, riding is 90% mental, the other 10% being made up from technique and maybe a little tiny bit being bike set-up. (yes bike influences the mental aspect, so i try to remove it from the equation.)

Does anyone actually ever ride at 90%? Let alone 97,98% where gear actually starts to make a difference, ie at the very, very sharp end of the sport.

I believe the same can be said for strength and fitness too, mainly mental.

PS, you won't go over the bars unless you tell the bike to put you over the bars, whether that be intentionally or unintentionally on your part.

Is this getting into the realms of irrational?

Validating excuses?

Quite possibly 🙂

you won't go over the bars unless you tell the bike to put you over the bars, whether that be intentionally or unintentionally on your part

I'll try to remember that next time I'm lying in the dirt 🙂

Seriously, I agree that rider attitude and skill are far more important than the bike, but some bikes are more forgiving of mistakes than others, which must have an effect on how confident you feel going into a tricky section.

Validating excuses?

I eventually gave up having a big bike, because when I bottled stuff while riding it, I felt like an utter failure. Whereas anything awkward that I nail on the hardtail gives me a massive achievement-boner.

🙂

Only three factors

- Frame size

- Brakes

- Tyres

If any of these are sub-par for the job I'll tend to ride elsewhere. ie a gate with poorly adjusted Vs and semi-slicks isn't coming down a muddy mountain with me on it. Whether HT or Full sus

PS, you won't go over the bars unless you tell the bike to put you over the bars, whether that be intentionally or unintentionally on your part

Some bikes listen better than others.

If you are saying that the difference between an XC race bike and a 7" bike only matters when you are pushing flat out then, well, that doesn't make me think you know what I am talking about.

there must presumably be bits of trail that you could get down on a slack bike but not on a steeper angled XC bike

If things start going squirelly on my big bike there's still a fair chance of saving it, if it starts going wrong on my cx I end up on the deck. So yeah I reckon most of us will know atleast one or two trail sections that we would opt to push or avoid completely on their less gnar xc race weapon/rigid nichecore ss/gnarmac, for me, locally there's a couple of drops and a handful of steep rocky/rooty chutes. Up in the lakes....well.... there's a lot of trails I wouldn't attempt to take my "xc" bike down. If I rode them more often maybe I would, dunno.

all IMO obviously.

a sufficiently talented rider can get down anything on any bike

Yes but slack makes it much easier when it's really steep, which means you can do it faster and more confidently.

Biking (at least for me) is about much more than simply getting up and down things.

Happy to ride either bike down anything where it's mostly wheels on the ground or small jumps. Lack,of take this what holds me back, I retired from medium sized jumps after a few crashes! My two bikes are quite similar, both with 150 max travel upfront just BFe vs Covert. There is plenty in the Alps I wouldn't ride on the HT but my Swiss mate is faster down everything we rode in Verbier on an ancient Scott HT with cantilever brakes and 80mm forks.

The XC bike goes round a couple of things, it will be fine but... the angles area little too aggressive for my liking and I don't want a wheel bill

It's one of these so the only excuse is from me

In answer to the OP, absolutely. My rigid single speed 29er is not something I'd take on a downhill track nor would I attempt tabletops/doubles on it. Equally I wouldn't take my full susser to the pub or on family rides.

Anything in between, however, is pretty fair game. That said, I don't tend to make a choice mid-ride as to what to ride based on the bike I'm on. I will have already made the decision on which bike to take based on the ride I'm doing.

Those are supposed to be XC race bikes are they? 4lbs heavier than mine for a start, and bars twice as wide 🙂

My rigid single speed 29er is not something I'd take on a downhill track nor would I attempt tabletops/doubles on it

I've been getting air (ok, not a lot) on my rigid 29er at Swinley 🙂 I've learned that you have to hit the sweet spot on the downslope and plant the landing perfectly otherwise you risk breaking things!

I've seen enough videos by the likes of Akrigg, Ashton etc to know that people with crazy skills can ride anything down anything, but what I wanted to know was whether slacker bikes actually gave normal mortals the confidence to take on things they wouldn't do on their XC bike.

Those are supposed to be XC race bikes are they? 4lbs heavier than mine for a start, and bars twice as wide

Not really. I'll have a go at most things on my HT if I've got a lid and pads on.

It's the BC edition with real life wheels the fork run out to 120mm (same fork) and a dropper added - and yes proper bars

So not an XC race bike then.. having slacker angles for a start 🙂

The same frame builds to 10kg FS race bike. It's just pointing out that the bikes we ride are generally not our limiting factor.

The frames might not be, but if you can do anything on any bike they why'd they change the build?

but what I wanted to know was whether slacker bikes actually gave normal mortals the confidence to take on things they wouldn't do on their XC bike.

Yes, absolutely. That's why pro downhillers etc use slack angles - it's easier to ride gnarly stuff quicker on.

Did you get extra pedantic cornflakes this morning molgrips?

Same fork with spacer removed, the video is more we ride these. Race "Race" spec bike all sacrifice strength/longevity for weight saving at the top level, you could probably do all that on the 10kg version just not for 2 years...

Watching the giant boys Paul Van der Ploeg ( https://instagram.com/paulvanderplow/) and Josh Carslon happily gapping stuff on their 29r race spec anthems and out riding the gravity bikes was great to see.

Same fork with spacer removed

Does that not make the fork longer then?

Anyway so what? The video proves nothing that's not obvious, and doesn't explain to the OP about why slack angles exist.

Did you get extra pedantic cornflakes this morning molgrips?

No cornflakes.. high GI.. 😉

no, good point just helps to point out that the bike is not the limiting factor for 95% of people.

no, good point just helps to point out that the bike is not the limiting factor for 95% of people.

I don't agree at all. Whoever you are, it's easier to do steep gnarly stuff with slacker angles. If you're the top 5% then sure you can ride an XCer on gnarly bits and make allowance for it with skill, but for the bottom 50% slack angles etc really helps attack stuff that you'd be too nervous to otherwise.

I learned a lot about jumping off and over things on my long travel bike, which gave me confidence to then do it on my XCer, because I'd done it and gained the skill. I don't think I'm alone here either.

You COULD then use the 'wrong' bike as an excuse not to do things, but that doens't mean we should all be making it harder for ourselves.

Anyway so what? The video proves nothing that's not obvious, and doesn't explain to the OP about why slack angles exist.

No, interesting though the discussion and videos were, I have to confess that (despite much head scratching on the issue) I'm still not really clear on why slack head angles exist 🙂

I get the fact that increasing mechanical trail makes the front wheel want to stay in a straight line (better high speed stability slower low speed steering) but I'm still not entirely sure if/why it makes a bike easier to ride down tricky stuff at more normal speeds. On the one hand it feels as though it should, but on the other hand we are only talking about a few degrees. I bet I can't judge the gradient of a slope to within a few degrees, so why would a few degrees difference in head angle have any bearing on how confident I feel riding down some section of trail?

I'm still not really clear on why slack head angles exist

Ok - so if you are on something steep, your weight is more over your front wheel. If lots of weight is on the front wheel this makes the bike more difficult to handle. And if your centre of mass goes over the front axle you'll go OTB. But before this point your effective HA is steepend by the trail which makes the steering a bit funny and twitchy. Slacker angles mean you can ride steeper stuff before this happens. A few degrees slacker puts your front wheel further away from you which means it's less likely to end up under your centre of mass.

Then when you have suspension, you need slacker angles because the suspension compresses when you put your weight over it. Compressing it makes the fork shorter and steepens up the HA so you need more degrees in reserve, so to speak. Then when you are braking and also hit a bump things get even sketchier, so a bike made for lots of big bumps on steep stuff will have even more degrees in reserve.. plus that bike will have more travel anyway, and so on.

I used to ride a Fisher Cake which had something like a 70.5 degree HA and a 5" fork. That was quite OTBey, as compared to the 5 that replaced it which had the same fork but two or three fewer degrees of HA.

but what I wanted to know was whether slacker bikes actually gave normal mortals the confidence to take on things they wouldn't do on their XC bike.

Sometimes [b]normal mortals[/b] just get [s]trapped[/s] caught up in overthinking things .
Careful you don't stray in to hora/Renton territory 😉

You COULD then use the 'wrong' bike as an excuse not to do things, but that doens't mean we should all be making it harder for ourselves.

My xc bike keeps surprising me as to what I ride and how fast I ride on it, it's nicer on my longer slacker bike but that bike isn't essential. Some of the long/low/slack is a very mental thing and it allows people to mentally get over the obstacle which is most of the problem.

By normal mortal do you mean sedate bimbler? Cos there are plenty of normal non-pros out there that like to "make progress" on the trails!

Some of the long/low/slack is a very mental thing and it allows people to mentally get over the obstacle which is most of the problem

Depends what the trail is. Many trails are well within the easy riding parameters of both XC and slack geometry. Many of us may only ride these trails, and hence you are right it makes no difference. But there are loads of trails out there that are easily accessible and are much harder on XC bikes. Not impossible, but harder.

the bike is not the limiting factor for 95% of people.

There's also the constant quest for "more".

You ride fire roads on a rigid bike, have great fun but want to go faster, so you get a suspension fork. This means you go faster but the fire roads are a but dull, so you seek something steeper or more technical. You find this trail but want to go faster on it, you buy a full suspension bike, but it makes the trails dull so you seek something steeper or more technical. But you want to go faster...repeat...

I'm pretty adamant the rise of CX/Gnarmac bikes is because people are fed up of this cycle, they just want to ride bikes.

ou buy a full suspension bike, but it makes the trails dull so you seek something steeper or more technical

Well no, the trails might get duller but then you ride them faster. I don't understand this idea that the techiness of a trail is the challenge. It's a combination of techniess and speed!

Cwmcarn is just as technical on my 7" bike as it was on my Pace RC200 with its 63mm forks. I'm just going twice as fast on the descents!

Slacker definitely helps somewhere like the Alps or other big mountain descents, even on the more technical footpath trails. Most of the stuff I ride in the Surrey Hills I enjoy on the HT as it makes the trails slightly harder to ride that the FS. If I rode Alps/Lakes/Wales more often I'd ride the FS and with more travel / slacker design.

I used to want suspension to ride faster, now it's cos although I can ride about as fast as I want to on the HT, I get shaken to bits on the stuff I like to ride.

Managed to hang on to the big bike with only the odd very brief arm shake-off to cope with the pump when I stalled or wussed out on tricky bits for just over half an hour's rocky descent last night.

I have done the same descent on my hardcore HT with a couple of longer stops and was genuinely frightened I might not be able to hold on to the bars any more at a couple of points. I wussed out at the same points.

Once I've done it on the bigger slacker full-sus I know I can do it so when I come back to it on the hardtail I'll ride it, even if I didn't before.

After spending a weekend racing/riding Fort Bill DH on a hardtail - it changed my perspective on what was "achievable".

I learned a lot about jumping off and over things on my long travel bike, which gave me confidence to then do it on my XCer, because I'd done it and gained the skill. I don't think I'm alone here either.

I dunno, I mean, when there was only rigid bikes or HT's people managed to learn those skills pretty well. And by your own admission, you CAN do it on your XC bike. You could have learned that skill without buying a long travel full suss.

You COULD then use the 'wrong' bike as an excuse not to do things, but that doens't mean we should all be making it harder for ourselves.

Or you could realise your skill level is at fault and not the "wrong bike" and learn to overcome your weaknesses.

There's not much I'm unhappy riding on my rigid bike, and the stuff I am I practice at and develop the skills to ride it. If you start small and work up to stuff I can't see the need to "learn" on a long travel bike before going back to an XC bike.

I dunno, I mean, when there was only rigid bikes or HT's people managed to learn those skills pretty well. And by your own admission, you CAN do it on your XC bike. You could have learned that skill without buying a long travel full suss

Hah. I rode a fully rigid bike for many years before I got suspension and even then it was only the 63mm travel one. And I wasn't jumping much, surprise.

I don't know why this is so sodding controversial - steep gnarly stuff is easier on a big bike with slack angles, that's why they invented the bloody things FFS, and that's why people who do steep gnarly stuff are generally to be seen on big slack bikes. Unless they are showing off or being paid to ride something else.

You can criticise our skill levels all you like, you're making no sense. As I've said, I've done ALL my local tricky trails on all my bikes, but it's a lot easier, quicker and more fun on the Patriot. Are you saying I'm imagining it?

There's a big difference between "can't" and "comfort" though.

I don't know why this is so sodding controversial

Me either, or why people get so sodding defensive 😆