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Humour me, if you will please...
I've been away from STW and a lot of the evolution of bikes for a few years and have lost touch with things a bit.
I've currently got a gravel bike and a full sus MTB, thinking of replacing both with a single XC bike (with dropper) as I don't really fancy much road riding, or techy off road these days. Most of my riding has been on XC bikes as they suit where I live and needing to do a few miles on road to get to the trails, plus green lanes, bridleways etc. Both bikes are 1x.
The best drivetrain I've run ever was 2 x 10 on a mix of SLX/XT with an 11-36 cassette, and I think a 26/36 chainset, on a 29er XC bike. It was best for me, in terms of range, shift quality, and longevity.
So, is it possible to buy a light (carbon probably) XC bike that'll take a front mech and a dropper?
I'd suggest that what you need is an EpicEvo with 1x12 which will give you similar gearing, and has a dropper.
I moved from a 3x9 when parts were becoming scarce, and the whole new bike was a revelation compared to old tech.
Front mechs are thin on the ground these days, all the investment of all the major companies is into 1x, including for XC.
Can't speak to longevity/shift quality but to talk range for a second:
top gear on old gearing, 36 x 11 = 3.27 ratio
bottom gear on old gearing, 26 x 36 = 0.72 ratio
on modern 1x12:
top gear of 32x10 = 3.2 ratio
bottom gear of 32x51 = 0.63 ratio
So: if you can get to a microspline or XD 12 speed 10-51 cassette, with a 32 chainring you'll have a noticably lower bottom gear and a fractionally lower top gear (barely half a cog less than your old setup). The only downside will be the jumps between cogs will be a bit more noticeable.
(I imagine weight will be similar: heavier rear cassette offset by one less shifter, one less chainring, no cables, no front mech.)
I was wondering this a while back and after the hardtail thread had me looking at a few of them. Some will take a Shimano side-swing mech with the cable routed on the DT (Cotic Solaris for ex, I think / TBC).
op gear on old gearing, 36 x 11 = 3.27 ratio
bottom gear on old gearing, 26 x 36 = 0.72 ratioon modern 1×12:
top gear of 32×10 = 3.2 ratio
bottom gear of 32×51 = 0.63 ratioSo: if you can get to a microspline or XD 12 speed 10-51 cassette, with a 32 chainring you’ll have a noticably lower bottom gear and a fractionally lower top gear (barely half a cog less than your old setup). The only downside will be the jumps between cogs will be a bit more noticeable.
also worth noting that a lot of this will likely be offset by a move of (probably) smaller wheels to 29er, which (from 26") adds ~20% to the effective gearing
Classified hub an option?
adds ~20% to the effective gearing
~10%
(559/622)
Classified might be a good way to go but F... that's a lot of £ to replace a front mech.
that’ll take a front mech and a dropper?
How're you going to do that? Wouldn't the mech and the dropper lever want to be in the same place?
Some of the Konas look like they would easily mount a derailleur. Key thing to check would be chainstay clearance for the chainrings.
Wouldn’t the mech and the dropper lever want to be in the same place?
2x style lever, ideally on the RHS - they're not quite as easily activated but if it's on the RHS you can have the back brake covered properly as you try to hit the dropper lever
I'm still in the 2x zone (3x lets be honest) despite suffering a 1x FS bike for 7yrs.
My do-it-all inbred 29er knockaboutbike is built up 2x with a dropper, couldn't you just do a frame-up build and do what you like?
Also, plenty gravel bikes running 2x so parts are available. As gravel gets slacker, maybe just give it a year or two and buy a "newskool" gravel bike with a 65head angle, dropper, 29x2.4 tyres and straight bars... 😀
Still 2x here too. Even finding a gravel/adventure bike with 2x was a bit of a problem.
core
The best drivetrain I’ve run ever was 2 x 10 on a mix of SLX/XT with an 11-36 cassette, and I think a 26/36 chainset, on a 29er XC bike. It was best for me, in terms of range, shift quality, and longevity.
1x 12 speed Shimano with 34t up front and 10-51 rear will have a wider range than that, and I bet it will shift better too.
I can't believe I have to point this out, but the range of gears is often less important than the gaps between the gears. There's little more annoying than feeling like you're in the wrong gear, changing and it still feeling like you're in the wrong gear.
Usually you're either riding up hill or downhill and having a front ring that covers each scenario seems like it's about the right balance for me, for riding where you're pedalling downhill at least. I can see 1x working great for climbing to the top of technical descents because you can sacrifice the top-end you weren't going to use to keep the gear gaps right, but anything away from that and I feel like 2x seems like the way to go.
I’ve just plugged the cassette and chainrings into the gear calculator
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
Basically 12 separate ratios.
Arguably in some specific instances you could go up 2 on the back and down on the front in order to fine tune between ratios…but does anyone honestly do that?
1x still looks weird to me! Teeny, tiny front chainring, dinner plate cassette. All kinds of wrongness going on!
3x for the win!
#stuckinthe90s 🙂
If I had to go back to 3x9 I'd just quit riding.
but does anyone honestly do that?
yeah, i do, di2 does it for me tbf.
But I take your point, most people won’t, and also I don’t think it would be necessary on an mtb.
Road would be a different matter of course.
1x is always a compromise, if you want the same range as 2x or 3x, you’ll have bigger jumps between gears.
If you want nice close gears, you’ll have less range.
For many (most?) people though, this won’t matter too much.
I'd be very careful trying to hack 2x onto a modern 1x bike - as others have mentioned chainring clearance could be the killer issue.
Keep an eye open for a nice 5+ (say) year old XC frame and tart it up perhaps? I have a 2016 gen2 Highball that can run 2x, I still ride it for flatter XC or gravel-style rides, pretty much spent all winter on it riding dirty lanes with Mudhuggers on - echoing others you do notice the bigger 2 tooth jumps on the road. I can put up with it when the riding's generally hard and/or lumpy, but yeah, for more 'smooth' road riding I much prefer a 2x setup with 1 tooth jumps on the back.
The best drivetrain I’ve run ever was 2 x 10 on a mix of SLX/XT with an 11-36 cassette
Conversely that was one of the worst drive trains I ever had in terms of chainring longevity, absolutely bobbins and that was full 10 speed XT, life changed when I swapped to 1x with one of ye olde cassette expanders, 11-40 out back and a 32t chainring up front.
I don't get the gaps argument, especially off-road , 1x12 just works, its less complicated and shifts better, despite the nostalgia of whatever X drivetrains.
I haven’t used a front mech since about 2005. I hate the bloody things. Although it did used to be a struggle when the biggest 9 speed cassette I could get was 11-32. I’m not the fittest person in the world (probably the opposite end of the spectrum nowadays) and haven’t found anything I can’t haul by lard-arse up using an 11 speed 32 x 11-46 set up (even the previous 10 speed 11-40 was ok).
Although I guess a 2x drive train would reduce the weight on the back of the bike as the cassette would be smaller.
On that longevity issue someone raised above, my 12spd NX eagle cassette and chain ring have done 2800km, the chains I swap at 1600km.
The NX derailleur committed hari kiri into the rear spokes at 800 km, and the SLX has done 2000km without trouble
On that longevity issue someone raised above, my 12spd NX eagle cassette and chain ring have done 2800km, the chains I swap at 1600km.
Likewise, I'm on 12 speed XTR on one bike and that's done just over 3000km on the original cassette and chainring, chain was changed at 1850km and jockey wheels at 2500km, so it's wearing rather nicely.
My other bike with GX Eagle has done 1100km since I picked it up 2nd hand and fitted a new cassette, chainring, chain and jockey wheels and it's ticking along just nicely, I'd say it'll need a chain at 1500km, but I only fitted the cheap ass GX one, so not bad at all.
Do you actually need a new XC bike, modern bikes ahve geometry designed for much steeper and more technical riding than most of us ride. I wouldn't discount something 2nd hand that was designed to take a front derailleur.
It depends on what you're riding, my regular XC ride has a 6km gravel road climb and an equally long descent. Both tracks are rough enough that its more fun on my FS than my HT or Gravel bike. I recently fitted a new drivetrain on the FS bike, I went from a triple 44/32/22 with a 11-32T to a Single ring with 30T 11-42T. The bottom gear is a little bit taller but what I really miss is the top gear which is so much smaller I'm spinning out so easily I'm effectively freewheeling all the way home. I'm considering fitting a 40T narrow wide ring to the chainset and manually lifting the chain up for the descent.
What you'll gain is subjective although I am with you. You avoid those horrid gaps between gears. Probably ok if your riding has no flow etc or, and definitely without sounding elitest, don't know any difference. You'll avoid a dangly great over complicated and vulnerable mech as well. Of course you add in a front mech but thats the most idiot proof moving part on a bike. I run MTB doubles on the hard tail and CX bike. 28/42 chainrings and a 11-32 cassette. On the road you spin out but off road there are few long descents, at least where I live. 10 speed will last longer.I don't reagard 1850 in chain life acceptable in miles let alone KM.
Keep meaning to compare weights. Of course you have a front mech and gear shifter plus cable and chain ring but I do wonder how much those whopping great cassttes do weigh.
you add in a front mech but thats the most idiot proof moving part on a bike.
There are more than a few idiots on here who would disagree with you.