You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I have an Endura MT500 jacket which is very nice but, after several years of use, it no longer beads water and, instead, just soaks it in.
Other than its waterproofness, or lack of, there is nothing wrong with it. I'm happy to try and re-proof it but never really had much success with this in the past.
What is the go to product and technique here? What actually works?
Wash it then use the spray on the outside, then when dry iron it. Iron regularly to refresh.
I've never managed it. I've been tempted to use these folks, but never have.
https://lancashiresportsrepairs.co.uk/reproofing/
I've had so-so results with using the small spray bottles of nikwax (not aerosol, more like under the sink cleaning spray). My plan for next time this winter is to buy a 5l jug of the stuff and literally paint on with a brush to get a heavier coating... Hopefully that will give better results.
It doesn’t re-waterproof, it only gives water repellency. Once a coated or membrane garment is leaking there’s nothing you can do.
Temporarily perhaps, I've used various sprays and wash in treatments but any re-application usually only beads nicely for a couple of uses.
Problem is the application of heat, I've been super careful with various jackets when tumble drying according to manufacturer's instructions, but suspect I've eithen been too careful and not applied enough heat OR have ended up causing localised bubbling and delamination, d'oh!
Problem is the application of heat, I’ve been super careful with various jackets when tumble drying according to manufacturer’s instructions, but suspect I’ve eithen been too careful and not applied enough heat OR have ended up causing localised bubbling and delamination, d’oh!
I have a new tumble dryer and it has a Waterproof Revitalise setting. Might be worth trying out.
Never got it to last more than one wet ride, using either spray or wash in stuff.
It's a really tough environment for it what with mud and grit and wet.
Shame. Be good if something actually had any staying power.
I’ve never managed it. I’ve been tempted to use these folks, but never have.
https://lancashiresportsrepairs.co.uk/reproofing//blockquote >
I sent them a paclite GTX jacket for a re-taping. All the did was stick rubbish new tape over the old stuff which was coming off, and within one use all the new stuff had peeled off as it was stuck to the old stuff which they hadn't bothered to remove.
I could have done a 10x better job, total waste of £45 of whatever it was.
Invest in a Gore jacket.... the material has a limited lifetime waterproofing warrantee.
I have a new tumble dryer and it has a Waterproof Revitalise setting. Might be worth trying out.
That's pretty cool, but unless they stated the exact temperature and you knew exactly what temperature your jacket was good for (most manufacturers just say 'low' or 'medium') I'd be very careful...
It might also be that unless you get the jacket super clean, any residual oils or grease in the membrane might cause the bubbling and delamination once they're heated up? It was usually in the grubbiest areas (under rucsac straps, back of neck) that mine would delaminate when tumble dried.
Invest in a Gore jacket…. the material has a limited lifetime waterproofing warrantee.
Yeah, but they don't guarantee the water repellant coating, which is what is being 're-proofed'. Purpose of the coating is not waterproofing but maintaining breathability. Once your jacket wets out it has precisely no breathability as your body temperature can't force water vapour through a layer of sodden nylon outer material.
Goretex Shakedry is the solution but it's terrifyingly flimsy, have already had to send mine back after cat got her claws in it (can't really fault Goretex for that though).
I seem to have had success with the wash-in method (Nikwax) on my MTR jacket.
I washed it by mistake in detergent and softener. Thereby knackering the factory-fit DWR.
To rectify, the main thing I did that was different to previous unsuccessful attempts was to wash the washing machine before treating the jacket:
• Kettle of boiling water through the detergent drawer to remove detergent residues from there.
• Empty wash cycles to remove detergent and softener from the machine - I did this three times, until I stopped seeing bubbles and froth.
• Wash with tech wash.
• Wash in the TX.
Drip dry (in my case - instructions say no heat, tumble or iron, so I didn't).
Tried it in the rain the other day and it seemed to be repelling nicely. It was only a light shower though, so I don't know how long it would last in a downpour. I'm sure it's not as good as it was from the factory, but it seems to be good enough so far, and certainly better than any of my previous attempts. This was all without heat. Heat might've made it better but I didn't want to disobey the instructions and risk some other form of damage.
I’ve found nikwax to be consistently effective at perking up the beading. When the OH and I switched from reproofing once in a blue moon to semi regularly we found jackets worked much better. Funnily enough the instructions appear to be true. FWIW using tech wash first as well seems to help.
You need to use less a lot less reproofer if you top it up frequently, think we are down to about a third of the recommended.
If your jacket doesn’t seem to be taking a reproof it can be worth doing it twice. I thought an endura jacket of mine was dead a few years ago but two rounds through the proof brought it back to life. Be careful what you put through the machine next though- there was spare nikwax in the machine and I managed to waterproof a towel. Which, tbf, was about as amusing as you’d expect.
Grangers (wash-in) is quite good but as above, the jacket needs to be clean beforehand. Let it drip dry aswell.
Tends to last for a few months then needs doing again.
The paupers method is mixing silicone sealant with white spirit or just pasting waterproof PVA onto the outside but that's not for pricey kit!
Bear in mind, re-proofers are just to make the water bead and therefore run-off. It's not waterproof as such.
Leave your jacket on the radiator to dry it after applying the proofer. Works a treat.
It doesn’t re-waterproof, it only gives water repellency. Once a coated or membrane garment is leaking there’s nothing you can do
👆 Basically this. Exactly my experience with Nikwax, Granger and other generic spray.
I generally wash all my goretex with Nikwax techwash; done every use for cycling kit and every couple of weekends use for walking / skiing kit. Reproofing is a bit as and when it looks like the water isnt beading on the outer fabric. Tend to wash by hand using a couple of large plastic trugs. Mainly because the super cautious approach to using the washing machine takes up too much time unless I'm going clean nearly everything at once / start doing down jackets / sleeping bags.
Seems to be keeping stuff going for years.
I had a 15 year old Paclite that I eventually replaced when the zips became impossible to operate even after rubbing bars of soap and candles up them...also most of the soft feel lining had come out. It was rarely washed and had grit and dirt ground into it for years...however a simple non-bio or techwash wash always brought it back beading lovely after a low tumble dry.
However, I would do an empty boil wash on the machine and pour boiling water in the dispenser first to get rid of biological detergent, and we NEVER use fabric softener for anything. Its completely, utterly pointless stuff and I suspect why a lot of gear gets ruined.
The key is (as many of you have said) to make sure the machine is clean of fabric softener nasties etc and make sure you wash with Tech Wash first. I have heard a lot of people just use TX direct after using regular detergent or not washing at all and simply sticking in the machine with TX direct.
It’s not just the DWR on the outside failing that makes you get wet. If you don’t wash the grime out of it, the dirt impacts the breathability meaning you get wet from the inside.
I’d recommend Re-proofing after every 3 or so washes. Should be no need to reproof after your first wash unless you’ve knackered the jacket already by leaving it too long etc.
Also, I’d recommend the wash-in re-proofer. It generally tends to work better as it ensures you get it everywhere. But I know many prefer the spray as it feels like you can see where it’s going...
Heat activation isn’t really necessary for the aftercare treatments but if the jacket uses PFCs (which most still do) then it will benefit From a blast in the dryer. But be careful as too much heat could delaminate.
I could never get it to work - reproofing that is. I tried all sorts of treatments, drying methods and running empty washes through the machine to clear it of any residue.
It never worked well for me I afraid.
How does wash in re-proofer not effect the breathability but putting a layer on the inside of the jacket?
In general poorly... Tried several different solutions, heat activated and non-heat activated.
Never managed to achieve factory level of water repellency...
Cheers!
I.
I find the "rè-proofer" works better if applied in a sink/bucket rather than washing machine, even a very clean washing machine. I don't know if that's just because it's less likely to be rinsed off in the cycle.
I'm not convinced it makes much difference to the waterproof properties of the likes of GoreTex but by improving the ability of the outer fabric to bead up rainfall, it definitely improves the breathability. A wetted-out outer won't let water vapour through so you'll get wet from the inside out.
I’d recommend Re-proofing after every 3 or so washes.
Wait, people wash their waterproof? That can't help the waterproofness I'd have thought.
I never do. I just hose the worst of the mud off while I'm doing the bike, then let it drip dry. I wear the mud like a badger of honour. 😎
There is literally no point(especially in the winter) in having clean outer layers. Takes about a minute of riding until they're mucky again.
I've never had much success with reproofing...I think I'll try the paint it on technique inside and out and then hang it over the radiator.
I find the “rè-proofer” works better if applied in a sink/bucket rather than washing machine,
+1. I wash my jackets with pure soap (in the machine) and then leave them to soak in a bucket of Nikwax reproofer. Seems to work well, albeit not as durable as the factory coating.
That can’t help the waterproofness I’d have thought.
It certainly helps the breathability, so stops you getting as wet. Of course, that's assuming that it's a breathable waterproof. I'm not convinced that breathable shorts are that advantageous. Regardless of how good the material/laminate is you'll still get a wet arse due to the pressure you exert on the saddle. The perfect waterproof pants would have a robust/non-breathable seat and breathable panels elsewhere.
It doesn’t re-waterproof, it only gives water repellency. Once a coated or membrane garment is leaking there’s nothing you can do.
As above - the water repellency is integral to the breathability, because the jacket needs to be dry to breathe. Once it gets wet, your sweat condenses on the inside of the jacket, so you feel cold and wet, so you think it's leaking. It's probably not, but the results are indistinguishable from leaking so it's moot.
How does wash in re-proofer not effect the breathability but putting a layer on the inside of the jacket?
It does affect it. For most jackets*, the moisture has to condense on the inside of the jacket, and it soaks through to the outside. If you use wash-in proofer then the water repellency coats the inside of the jacket so the sweat cannot get through. The idea is that as you wear it the DWR rubs off the inside so it then starts to work again. And my experience bears this out. That's why I prefer spray-on.
* some jackets are actually porous such as those made from eVent fabric so this isn't an issue
The perfect waterproof pants would have a robust/non-breathable seat and breathable panels elsewhere.
They do - at least mine do - not least because you need mega tough fabric to sit on, Gore-Text wears through in absolutely no time when having muddy spray ground into it.
"For most jackets*, the moisture has to condense on the inside of the jacket, and it soaks through to the outside. If you use wash-in proofer then the water repellency coats the inside of the jacket so the sweat cannot get through."
If it does need to condense then it has to be on the membrane or coating, not the inner fabric.
If it does need to condense then it has to be on the membrane or coating, not the inner fabric.
Yes, but this will be the case generally.