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Just as the title says really!
I am getting sore hands and wrists and wondered if a carbon bar is the way to go. Or is that claim just a ploy by marketing departments to sell expensive stuff to broken middle age dudes like me?
Cheers!
Dave
Save your money and let some air out of your tyres.
It's all about dampening and the resonance coming from the bike through to the bars, too many factors to input to give a definite answer, but reality is that if you have front suspension, tyre pressure that isn't rock hard and decent grips and gloves, it should really be negligible, i find people need to set their pressures, compression and rebound up better to reduce trail buzz!
I think it depends. Some are apparently overly stiff and make it worse. People seem to rave about oneup for comfort. Best one I had was an easton haven which was very comfy.
It helps a little, yes. You might find different grips or tweaking suspension/tyres helps just as much, but no reason you can't have all of those things set up to suit you plus the bars.
Yes - but it depends.
Theres a big difference between brands. One up are supposed to be good. Nukeproof Horizon are comfortable and made a big positive on my light/stiff/short travel bike.
Some bars are known to be very, very stiff and harsh - Burgtec are, Hope bars too apparently.
There has been big threads on this subject previously.
Also consider whether you want/need 35mm diameter. I have avoided it.
snotrag
Some bars are known to be very, very stiff and harsh – Burgtec are, Hope bars too apparently.
There has been big threads on this subject previously.
Length is a part of it too - as you cut them down, they'll get stiffer.
Just got a Race Face SixC bar and I really like it. Thought 820mm would be insane, but left them long as an experiment and it feels right (I do have gorilla arms though). Does the carbon help with damping? Dunno really, it's not that bumpy round here so not had a proper opportunity to find out. There's certainly a small amount of flex in there that was missing on the Cotic bars I had before.
Yes.
I recently switched from an alloy Raceface Ride bar to a carbon Raceface Next and I can definitely tell the difference.
Have a look at Spank Vibrocore bars. They worked for me where carbon did not. Admittedly I didn't try lots of carbon bars.
Yes. But as others have said it depends which ones and there are other things you can do.
I have some renthal carbon fat bars and they are stiff as f***. But i've also got some on one knuckleball (?) bars in chewy (they do chewy or hard) and they have a fair bit more damping properties.
But a far cheaper (and better) option is to buy some DMR Deathgrips in the "thick" size.
I found Spank Vibrocore bars had a massive affect on reducing trail buzz like yourguitarhero. You could also try push on grips. Combined they would cost around half what a carbon bar does, sale prices excepted.
No idea if it was from trail buzz but I was getting sore hands riding my hardtail with Renthal Fatbar lite's on, changed them for the one up bars and no more sore hands.
I have had to ditch my Enve DH bars now, having moved somewhere new, with longer, steeper & rougher trails, riding more often has resulted in me getting beaten to pieces over the past few weeks.
I was all set to get some of the OneUp bars, but i've chucked on a set of spare 35mm Joystick 800mm alloy bars & they are noticeably softer than the Enve's - so much so they have eliminated the hand pain, which is nice.
Grips certainly help too. I have been running some Deity Knuckledusters which are super soft. I should try some of the Kevlar Renthals as apparently they have good long lifespans & are great for feeling. Not sure off white is a great colour choice though!
Put it this way - I use a rigid 29er and regularly switch between
- a super-stiff heavy anchor (On One Geoff)
- a lightweight (Bontrager RXL) carbon straight
The bike rides fine with either bar. I use Ergon grips on both. Took me a while to dial in the stem-choice and grip-angles but now I don’t think about discomfort and it doesn’t remind me. IME (excluding bikes with sus forks or with tyres < 2”) Your front tyre-pressure, your bar-position and your grip-choice all add-up to make more difference in hand/wrist-comfort than does bar-material.
Full disclosure 1 - I use bar-end grips on the flat bar and have various grip options on the Geoff. I don’t like my hands/wrists in one position for hours, it doesn’t make sense when climbing etc. ymmv
Full-disclosure 2 - My carbon flat bar is very narrow (610ish) by today’s standards so (given similar thickness) a longer version would offer more deflection.
I think I'm like dahz, there's tons of stuff you can do before getting to the point of changing bars. Tyre pressure, taking the time up your fork, different grips (trad slip-on are softer than lock-on IME), even rotating your current bars to relieve hand pressure can all make a difference.
If it's an excuse* to buy new bars, then I'd also agree with others on the thread, Renthal are particularly harsh, I've got some Chromag OSX Carbon 35mm which are surprisingly supple.
*if one were needed...
IME SixC bars are about the stiffest around. I'm getting some good feel from Thomson titanium bars.
i think you can deff feel the difference between a good carbon bar (some are too stiff) and a overly stiff alloy bar (some are worse than others) in terms of hand fatigue / pain.
my e-bike came with some overly harsh bontrager alloy bars as stock, played around with bar position, fitted my normal grips etc, but was till getting painful hands on long descents. swapped out the bars for some one up components and changed nothing else and now painful hands are no more. i also like the santa cruz carbon bars, bit stiffer than the one ups though
I have the same bars (renthal fatbars) in both alu and carbon versions.
Can’t detect any difference unless you put them on a set of scales.
Tyre pressure, grips and bar height is where id be looking at for comfort.
Who cares? It gives you an excuse to buy something else shiny to stick on your bike so surely that’s a win win situation.😉
Hob Nob
I have had to ditch my Enve DH bars now, having moved somewhere new, with longer, steeper & rougher trails, riding more often has resulted in me getting beaten to pieces over the past few weeks.
What width were you running the Enves? I find them much more comfy than the Renthal carbons, ended up selling them and splashing out on another set of Enves. Am sure there are more compliant ones out there, and I'm a big lump too, which I'm sure is a factor.
A no from me. I have a very stiff bike (rigid, 25c not very supple at all tyres pumped up hard) and found bars make no difference at all. I have switched between carbon, alu and am now using titanium as I like the look of them and most importantly the angles fit what I want.
Princess and the pea springs to mind...
I don't think hand pain is related to buzz, not when you're riding suspension and big tyres at low pressures. It's all about how your upper body weight is concentrated on your hands.
So as above- change position (less weight on hands) and change grips or bar sweep/angle.
Flexy bars might take the edge off some of the hits if you are riding rigid or with hard forks and small tyres.
Try rotating your bars back slightly? Might just need to angle the bar so your wrists are a in bit more natural position.
I've got a hardtail with carbon bars and my wrists get a bit achy, just because its rotated to give me a bit more stretch as it's a short bike.
I've seen articles where people say bars make a difference to vibration, but once the buzz has got through tyres, sus forks, grips, gloves, seriously, how much vibration can there be? I reckon bar angle is far more crucial.
If it's too bad for you, stick to road riding on smooth roads 😉
My chewy Knuckleballs did/do.
How much of a problem is it? You could always buy a set of these...
https://cyclorise.com/collections/fasst-company
OK, proper expensive I grant you, and not something I will be buying myself, but I actually got to ride with a set on the weekend and they really are very, very nice.
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i find they do, but I also recommend use thick grips, padded gloves and hold your posture better so less load is placed through the hands at point of contact, loosen the grip you have on the bars, and ride wider tyres with less psi in them
Definitely does on the road. Got back on my ali road bike the other week after ages on the carbon one and I thought my flipping fillings were going to come out on one section of road. Not sure about off road front suspension, nice fat low pressure tyres etc....
As others have said there are lots of variables, I rode long descents in the UK and Morzine with no issues last year but recently went from a 45mm length stem with 31.8 bore to 35mm and 35mm bore due to bent bars, I then got arm pump and hand pain on trails I previously had not, I switched to a 50mm length 35mm bore stem and on the whole this has gone away, I am now considering the one up bar or going back to 31.8.
I've previously done lots of playing with my front end to alleviate hand/arm issues, my tyre pressure has gone down and I've played with running more or less SAG before settling on just under 20% to get the bike and my weight more balanced.
As said above it depends on the bar. I had the 'hard' version of the On-One Knuckleball which was too stiff on long rides. I then tried a Spank Vibrocore bar, this made a big difference and really reduced the 'buzz'. It was so good I changed the bar on my other bike to a Spank Vibrocore.
As others have said, it depends, carbon's so versatile that it doesn't really dictate properties to the part.
I have a set of Crank Bros bars that are visibly flexible on the fatbike, and fitting those instantly transformed it from "uncomfortable after a 3 minute descent" to "solo a seven hour race", but I had enve bars that even on a 160mm full suss were still noticably so stiff that they made a difference to overall feel. And it's something that you can't really replicate with tyre pressures (as demonstrated by the fatbike I think!)
I replaced the standard aluminium bar that came on my bike with a cheap Planet-X selcof carbon bar. Can't say I've noticed much difference but then I never found the old one uncomfortable. I just thought I could lose a bit of weight on the bike and everyone likes a bit of carbon don't they.
Fasst Company
OK, proper expensive I grant you, and not something I will be buying myself
SRSLY!??? Flex handlebars? What a ****ing joke. Might as well get a flexstem, and thudbuster post while you're at it! 😆 Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be in a sport full of such mugs.
DezB
SRSLY!??? Flex handlebars? What a **** joke. Might as well get a flexstem, and thudbuster post while you’re at it! 😆 Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be in a sport full of such mugs.
They're apparently very good, even if the idea of them does give me the bad bad fear.
https://nsmb.com/articles/the-12-fasst-flexx-suspension-handlebar/
https://nsmb.com/articles/the-12-fasst-flexx-suspension-handlebar/
"My arms and legs are all the suspension I need"
- some riders ~1990
They’re apparently very good, even if the idea of them does give me the bad bad fear.
Mountain biking isn't meant to be SMOOTH. Ride a frickin turbo in your garage if you can't handle bumps! 😆
Depends on the bars really. Easton EC70, Answer Pro Taper SL, Pro Tharsis 740 all visibly flexed when pushed down hard and had a very nice ride quality. Thomson carbon, heavier and possibly correspondingly there's no real sign of movement, but they don't feel awful. Spank Vibrocore does just what it says on the tin. OneUp, yes they're better than other 35mm bars for sure, but I reckon still stiffer and harsher than many 31.8 bars.
Could try moving your bars up. This will shift some of the weight/pressure from your wrists back onto the saddle and pedals.
Ergon grips, reduced pressure points and where your palm sits actually flexes slightly.
Ride a frickin turbo in your garage if you can’t handle bumps!
You’re one of those ‘inflate tyres to the maximum stated on the sidewalls’ people, aren’t you.
No, I'm one of those, my bike has suspension people.
I ran a titanium jones bar on my tripster but after changing to a carbon jones bar there was a noticeable reduction in road/trail buzz, dunno how much of a difference (if any) a carbon bar would make on a fat tyred mtb though.
I've had (a lot more than this, but relevant ones):
- Raceface Sixc 31.8
- Raceface Atlas 31.8
- Raceface Sixc 35mm
- Raceface Atlas 35mm
- Raceface Next R 35mm
- Spank Vibrocore 31.8
- Spank Vibrocore 35mm
- OneUp Carbon 35mm
35mm is noticeably stiffer than 31.8 in the same bar.
Vibrocore does make a difference, but no more than going back from 35mm to 31.8mm.
The OneUp Carbon bar in 35mm is noticeably more forgiving than any of the above bars.
Tyre pressure, grips, suspension spring rate, HSC, LSC, rebound, ramp, bar sweep, stem height all make a difference.
The biggest difference is how often I ride, the more I ride the stronger I get, the less I feel impacts.
I too find the vibrocore bars make a noticeable difference. I’ve just bought a new set actually and need to fit them. There’ll be a very lightly used Burgtec carbon bar in the classifieds soon.
I swapped my Renthal carbon bars from my full susser to my hardtail. I was astonished at the difference it made to the hardtail. But honestly, I couldn’t tell the difference between the two on my full susser.
On the HT I noticed a huge difference in the very small bumps - your word “buzz” is a good one. But anything larger on the trail felt much the same to me.
I totally agree that taking some pressure out of your tyres, or running a softer fork would have a much bigger impact (imo).
Spank vibrocore made a huge difference to me. They replaced a set of raceface carbon bars on my Aeris and made a really noticeable difference. Bought a hard tail last month and that came with raceface alu bars, which were pretty harsh. Tried the old carbon ones and that made sod all difference, so I went and bought another set of vibrocores. Problem solved.
There's probably an element of size/weight etc going on here with the carbon bars, at a shade over 10st I'm almost certainly not heavy enough to get any benefit out of them as I'm not putting enough force through to flex them, but the vibrocore just mutes vibrations a bit and I find that really helpful in terms of wrist/hand issues.
I am getting sore hands and wrists and wondered if a carbon bar is the way to go
no - carbon is stiff
Getting bars the correct angle, grips that match your hand, brake levers the right angle, your suspension set up right and tyre pressure good all help with buzz. That being said you are not going to get rid of it all
Can't say I've ever noticed bar material make a difference - steel, alu, titanium or carbon. Grips, forks, tyres and bar shape - yes, bar material - no.
carbon is stiff
As others have said… “it depends”.
Ok firstly, thanks to all for the responses on this. Really wide range of thoughts on this.
I have tried grips, suspension set up, bike fit, gloves, tyres and tyre pressures.
The biggest difference I have noticed, which the exception of carbon bars (which I have not tried yet) is changing to a higher volume front tyre and running it at a correspondingly lower pressure.
Got a buddy offered a shot of a raceface bar he has in the shed. Will give that a go. Really is just fine tuning at this stage, once the tyre/fork set up is nailed properly
Most (but not all) RaceFace carbon bars are pretty stiff... what's he got?
Try some ODI lo longnecks push on grips. They have made a big difference for me after trying all sorts.
I always go for renthal carbon fatbars. Typically c£100-£105 for the v2s.
Definitely objectively (most likely psychologically) take the edge off the trail, really comfy backsweep @ 7degrees and consistently 225g-229g.
I am not sure the purpose of carbon bars is to provide comfort. A carbon bar can be stiffer for a given weight, that is the point of it. I have just put my Easton XC 90 SL bars back on (150 grams so pretty light) and they are very stiff.
My bike is going to be a much better test bed that any of the bikes people are are riding here and any vibration or buzz will be more noticeable. The carbon bars feel no different from the titanium bars that were on before.
“I am not sure the purpose of carbon bars is to provide comfort.”
Their purpose (other than the obvious) depends on the design goals. The OneUp bars are a good example.
Bars can only help with high frequency low amplitude issues, so you may struggle to detect that if you’re being overwhelmed by bigger impacts.
By the way, those unusual bars with the pivots and springs/damping come from motocross. Riding rough terrain with tons of suspension. Bar compliance deals with the stuff that suspension is bad at.
A lot of people have found RevGrips a big benefit for hand fatigue. Might be worth a look.
My experience
- many carbon bars are properly stiff. I have Renthal carbon bars on my two FS and they don't have much give
- Spank Vibrocore are about the only bar I've ridden that actually feel different. Hence having a set on my HT. There's definitely something to them compared to other bars I've had on thre.
- Grips make a massive difference to me. I'm now a total fan or Ergon GA3 (with the little wing)
- What everyone said about tyre pressures and fork setup.
Judging by a few comments on this thread about 35 mm bars being generally more stiff than 31.8 mm; what is the benefit of 35 mm bars?
Went to One up 35mm rise bar to stop hand numbness, worked but I think it’s the rise that helped.
It’s a nice bar and reasonably good value for Carbon.
I had a flat carbon bar that i bought off mboy. Definitely killed some trail buzz compared to the stiff alu bar i took off. Can't remember what the hell it was though, sorry.
It does depend.
You get the same with hockey sticks. Depending on how thick the carbon is, the overall shape, the layup, etc, then it can be designed to transfer maximum force or it can have a bit of give to save the hands. Everyone has a preference and it goes on "feel".
Carbon is great, it can do both or somewhere in between.
So, yeah, depends.
had both. replaced my carbon bars as I felt i'd had a few too many crashes and chucked on some ali Renthal bars I already had and they're no worse.
The biggest improvement I found was changing grips.
having said that I've heard the vibrocore stuff works well.
Forgot to add, pretty sure my 120mm-170mm suspension travel, bike depending, has a much greater affect than my renthals ever do.
Most flexible carbon riser bars I ever had though were the carbon cycles eXotic 740mm risers at c162g.
I always felt they were too light though. I only had them on an xc orientated bike but psychologically they held me back. A few gramms either side with carbon makes a massive difference structurally.
what is the benefit of 35 mm bars?
You can make a thinner bar in the same length and same strength in 35mm compared to 31.8mm. So, weight is the benefit. They do very generally end up being stiffer than 31.8 though - which is a problem. As I wrote further up, the new OneUp bars are the only 35mm ones I've tried that are actually not bonkers stiff.
Anyone used the Brand x carbon bar?
Looking for something with a 35mm to 40mm rise on 31.8 mm clamp and that seems the only thing in stock anywhere at a reasonable-ish price.
By the way, those unusual bars with the pivots and springs/damping come from motocross. Riding rough terrain with tons of suspension. Bar compliance deals with the stuff that suspension is bad at.
OTOH when did a 'crosser last have to stand and pedal up a steep hill, or stand to sprint? Never thought I'd see a situation where a Flexstem is a better answer
Renthal aren't 'soft'. Not even close. Same goes for Hope. Way too stiff for my liking.
As said, stay 31.8.
My favourites are Syntace, but they aren't cheap.