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Would like my road bike to be a little more comfortable on our bumpy Kent lanes. It's running 25c GP4000. Would going to 28c make a noticeable difference re comfort, and if so, any specific tyres good for this?
Having used 23, 25 and 28mm GP4000s, yes, there's a noticeable difference in comfort. If you like GP4000s in 25 (and why wouldn't you?) then you'll love them in 28, so I'd stick with them (not sure whether the GP5000 offers any benefits). Though bear in mind that they're a big 28, they come up around 30mm in real life.
If you can fit 28's, then yes they will be more comfortable than 25's on a given bike... Why? Well they're some 12% wider, but that means a lot more volume (GCSE Maths, πr²) too, which then allows you to run quite a lot lower pressure (GCSE Physics, P=F/A, you've just made the area a lot bigger so the pressure required will go down) for more comfort...
What to recommend? Well there's a wealth of decent tyres out there, but you could do worse than check out the Schwalbe One or Pro One tyres, both available in tubeless or tube type.
GP5000 rolls faster than 4000 and has more puncture resistance. I ride N Kent lanes with 28mm GP5000 but some of those lanes would be uncomfortable in a Monster Truck!
The tubeless version is heavier due to its thicker construction but works well at 80 psi on a ghetto tubeless set up.
28mm TL GP5000's on an SL6 tarmac here & its about as comfortable as the old style roubaix in replaced (pre futureshock).
28c GP4000s here, love 'em.
FWIW, I'd run the 25c's until they die, then size up on the next pair; I wouldn't say it's night and day, it's just more of what makes the 25s good.
For every day riding I wouldn't use anything smaller. Any difference in speed is tiny, and you will notice not just the increased comfort, but also the increased control on rougher roads.
Yes, there's definitely a difference, especially with lower psi too. In fact, I've been riding a gravel bike all winter with 35s and have found it hard going back to 28s on the summer road bike. It's not even that much quicker.
GP5000s didn’t last me long, cut up fairly quickly. I’m now running Bontrager R3s in a 28. No more or less comfortable, so far less cuts in the tyre.
If comfort is the priority Vittoria Corsa are in my experience the most comfortable tyre, but less durable than most. Supremely comfy tyre though.
Well there’s a wealth of decent tyres out there, but you could do worse than check out the Schwalbe One or Pro One tyres, both available in tubeless or tube type.
Any particular reason you recommend Schwalbes there fella? 😉
FWIW, I'd like to go to 28s, but my frame won't take them I don't think (Ritchey Road Logic V1).
Yes, but I'd caveat that by saying they probably work better with wide rims as well if you have the option or are building something from scratch. Hard to say for sure as my summer wheels aren't as stiff as my winter ones so that probably doesn't help, but there's a very fine tolerance between letting some air out, and them feeling horribly unsupported when cornering hard. A bit like MTB wheel's/tyres before ~35mm rims came a along and all we had were Mavic 317's. My winter bike has 28mm Conti tyres on wider wheels and doesn't have the same problem, but they are also different wheels so it's a not entirely fair comparison.
Also ~27mm really is the limit for standard rim brake calipers, the flashing on the schwalbes scuffs the caliper and I vertically trued the wheel in the frame to get rid of a high spot!
As for speed, it's probably negligible. I was 2 minutes slower up a 25 minute climb yesterday than I was in November (summer wheels now, winter wheels and 25mm tyres then), but I did pin myself to the ground under a quarter of a ton of tree on my knee in February so TBH my fitness isn't great and I'm lucky I can even walk!
FWIW, I’d like to go to 28s, but my frame won’t take them I don’t think (Ritchey Road Logic V1).
As I said Schwalbe Pro One 25mm come up 27.5mm anyway, even on narrow rims. And are the absolute max I could squeeze through the calipers. Obviously the tolerances on your frame might be different but they should fit unless the seat stays are unduly narrow or the chainstays so short the tyre buzzes the front mech.
n.b. mine are the 'old' model. There's a new version this year which may or may not size up the same.
I've managed to get 30.5mm tyres onto a rim braked bike without issue - that's Schwalbe One 28mm tyres on an 18mm internal rim, fitted to a CAAD12 with old 9000 DuraAce calipers
Mega comfy, usually run at 80psi more out of habit than anything but can drop down a lot less.
Does depend hugely on how straight and round the wheel is, the specifics of the frame shape (mostly rear triangle) and even when the caliper sits compared to the centre of the wheel. On my CAAD8 frame I can only go to 28mm (25mm Schwalbe One on a 16mm rim) otherwise I'd be catching.
On either if I ding a wheel that might be ride over.
thanks all ... sounds like a resounding yes!
Any particular reason you recommend Schwalbes there fella? 😉
Because they're good! My current employment status has little bearing on my recommendation... 😉
FWIW, I’d like to go to 28s, but my frame won’t take them I don’t think (Ritchey Road Logic V1).
Au contraire mon ami... Ritchey Logic Road was designed to run 28's, so shouldn't be a problem. However... Be aware that not all tyres size up as advertised... Some are way bigger, some aren't. A true 28c tyre fits in the Ritchey Logic Road frame and fork no problems though.
As I said Schwalbe Pro One 25mm come up 27.5mm anyway, even on narrow rims. And are the absolute max I could squeeze through the calipers. Obviously the tolerances on your frame might be different but they should fit unless the seat stays are unduly narrow or the chainstays so short the tyre buzzes the front mech.
n.b. mine are the ‘old’ model. There’s a new version this year which may or may not size up the same.
You are indeed correct. A 25c Pro One now measures 25mm on a 19mm internal rim, the previous tyre was designed around a typical 15mm internal rim that was commonplace in 2016 when the tyre came to market, which has meant as they've been fitted to wider rims, they have been pulled wider too. Also, be aware that there are many other manufacturers that have fallen foul of this too. I have, whilst I owned my bike shop, had a customer complain to me about the "25c" Conti GP4000's he bought cheap from Wiggle rubbing the inside of the chainstays on his road bike I sold him the previous year. This was on a 15mm internal width Mavic Ksyrium too, but the 25c tyre measured no less than 28.5mm with my vernier caliper!!! I can only assume that they were factory 2nds and probably actually 28c tyres that had been labelled incorrectly... Still... Doesn't help him, cos his frame was a near write off, and all cos he bought some cheap tyres from the internet!
Got 2020 Schwalbe Ones in 25c on my Colnago and they're a true 25mm, and 28's of the same tyre on my Genesis Volare (JUST clears, it's only verified for 25c tyres to be fair, but it's 5yrs old and 2nd hand and I wanted to fit 28's to it to prove a point about the 2020 tyres now measuring up true to size) and they measure a true 28mm (so they're only a fraction bigger than the old 25's)...
If you want a 30mm cos you have the clearance, well then that's fine too, cos there's now a 30c option too... 👍🏻
I now need some new road tyres, I can get 2 x Conti GP4000s for £60, or 2 x GP5000 + two tubes for £70.
Spending the extra £10 would see a no brainer, right?
Spending the extra £10 would see a no brainer, right?
Aye.
The 28mm Vittorias I have are great tyres but they don't like being run at too low a pressure, so if your thinking of dropping the PSIs then this is probably not the tyre for you.
I've been using Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance Storm 28s for the last 12 months and been very happy. I did a lot of research as I wanted tubeless which meant that the Conti 5000s TRs were quite a bit more money than alternatives at the time. Schwalbe Pro One's were on the list too but a lot of reviews had them down as being fragile.
Some interesting chat here on actual vs labelled tyre widths. I had some 28mm GP4Seasons in the garage so tried them on my 10 year old Cube and they fitted so I've been running them but thinking of some 28mm GP4000s/5000s. I guess I'd best go measure the GP4Seasons before ordering.
Spending the extra £10 would see a no brainer, right?
Spend the extra and go tubeless, saves money in the long run on tubes!
FWIW Ive also been running the hutchinson fusion 5 11storm tubeless and they've been completely faultless and really you would struggle to tell the difference to a 'summer' tyre unless being really picky.
Ive just sent one off for a warrenty replacemrnt as it developed a blister but shop seems hopeful itll just be replaced. Theyre tough, or the tubeless is working as i counted 32 cuts and holes on the tread!
The schwalbes, so far so good, not done enough miles to really say theyre tough or not, but ive ridden through lots of dirt and glass on the road and not had a puncture yet.
The hutchinsons measure true to their size on shimano ultegra wheels.
I guess I’d best go measure the GP4Seasons before ordering.
Sounds like tyres are shrinking to fit wider rims and still be true to size. So a new 28mm tyre should be the same size or smaller than an older one?
I had schwalbe ultremo 23mm and blizzard 25mm before these. Those both measured 25mm on the same shimano rim.
As for speed, it’s probably negligible. I was 2 minutes slower up a 25 minute climb yesterday
28's or 25's make no discernable difference according to strava for me. 25's feel faster but I think thats just the boneshaker effect.
I thought I knew whereabouts you lived but now I'm not sure, where's this climb??!
My tubeless Pro Ones weren’t particularly tough or grippy to be honest. They’ve put me off tubeless, apart from TT’s and Crit races.
I do get that some people can ride and ride and have no problems, mine just had two issues which means for me they are no good for long rides.
First problem was not fixed with an anchovy and the second was the valve started leaking during a ride which couldn’t be fixed by hand.
IME I’d say it’s negligible in terms of comfort.
I have 4000s in 28 and 25 and Four Seasons in 28.
What I do notice and it might be psychological is that 25s feel ‘faster’ (My Strava speeds are similar).
So my latest purchase has been GP5000s in 25s.
I’m 88kg.
Would just like to say (after looking at the pictures up there) that bigger tyres are the best argument for road discs and the main reason to switch.
IME I’d say it’s negligible in terms of comfort.
Do you run lower pressure in the 28s though?
Would just like to say (after looking at the pictures up there) that bigger tyres are the best argument for road discs and the main reason to switch.
I don't disagree... I only fitted them, like I said, to prove that the new 2020 tyres are true to size as a 2016-19 28c Pro One would no way have fitted. Clearance is tight for sure. The Hunt 4 Season Aero's are pretty stiff though and it's a stiff frame for steel, so I don't get any rub despite my near 90kg weight.
IME I’d say it’s negligible in terms of comfort.
28's don't suddenly mean you can crash into potholes willy nilly, but on some of the less smooth roads near me, 28's are noticeably less buzzy than 25's, and I think that's the main point. The same as 25's were noticeably less buzzy than the 23's we all used to have to run @ 110psi+ to avoid constant pinch flats.
28’s or 25’s make no discernable difference according to strava for me. 25’s feel faster but I think thats just the boneshaker effect.
There's very little difference even in the wind tunnel or on the rolling roads either. The smoother the road, the more a narrower tyre can be of benefit (hence why track bikes still run 19mm tubs at about 160psi!), but that's not the average UK road for sure. Went out on my Colnago on Sunday with 25 Schwalbe Ones on, and you're right, they "feel" faster than 28's... Why? Because you notice more going on beneath you! Only a little of course, but it's also why a carbon bike usually "feels" faster than an alloy or steel one too... It's mind games, and only ever marginal gains at best (which most of us aren't measuring, so they're not important).
Schwalbe Pro One’s were on the list too but a lot of reviews had them down as being fragile.
Thousands of miles on the 2016-19 Pro Ones here, and a few cuts (a couple sealed with sealant, one didn't). They're fast and grippy, and fairly long lasting for what is essentially a race tyre. There are more durable tyres, yes, but they're usually not as fast or grippy.
Which brings me on to the 2020 Schwalbe One/Pro One range (2 new tyres)... The Pro One is more of the same, but even faster. The One is more like a hybrid between the Durano and a Pro One, it's a great 4 season tyre that's fast, grippy etc. but quite a bit more durable than a Pro One... The tyre that most of us should be on if we're not racing basically. 👍🏻
Wider = Betterer
"Spend the extra and go tubeless, saves money in the long run on tubes!"
Peak man maths right there!!
Completely ignores the cost of new wheels in the calculation.
🙂
“Spend the extra and go tubeless, saves money in the long run on tubes!”
Peak man maths right there!!
Completely ignores the cost of new wheels in the calculation.
And how much your time is worth in setting the damn things up/ resetting them up/ fixing punctures/ binning them in disgust because road tubeless just isn't for you
“Spend the extra and go tubeless, saves money in the long run on tubes!”
Peak man maths right there!!
Completely ignores the cost of new wheels in the calculation.
And how expensive sealant is. I think after printer ink, maybe the most expensive liquid on the planet!
I changed from gp4000 to gp5000 and the new ones are measurably narrower than the old ones.
Also according to this puncture resistance is a tiny bit worse too:
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/compare/continental-grand-prix-4000s-ii-2014-vs-continental-grand-prix-5000-2018
They do seem grippier though. I'd recommend either: and the 4000 if volume / comfort was the main consideration.
@thisisnotaspoon - turns out my 28mm 4Seasons are 26.5mm wide on Ksyrium rims. That does have me wondering if a 28mm GP4000/5000 will even fit 🙁 However, if you are correct @kneed, then maybe I should aim for the GP5000s?
I thought I knew whereabouts you lived but now I’m not sure, where’s this climb??!
Reading.
Pishill is apparently the longest climb in the UK! Not a lot of elevation but apparently it makes up for it by not having any small flats or downhills all the way up from the Thames.
And if thats not your thing there's always Britwell from the other side for short sharp pain.
I see no reason why you'd not go to 28's. I run mine a little lower psi than 25's and they roll nicer and have a lot more grip and gives you more confidence. Don't think i'll be going back to 25's or narrower. I'm running GP4000's which are fine. Not had many punctures so seem pretty robust as far as puncture resistance goes (running tubes). No point in going GP5000 in my view unless you want to run tubeless as they're twice the price of the GP4000's (or were when I bought my last lot).
No idea if GP4000's are the ultimate pinnacle...not tried many other tyres. Have run Schwalbe Durano before, which were fine too.
My bike was originally delivered with GP4000 32's which, over the short time I rode on them felt fine too - and I run 32's on my commuter bike (Vittoria's) which don't feel overly draggy at all but never really ridden more than about 30 or so miles on them. Might give them another go when my current GP4000's need changing.
I really rate SWorks Turbo tyres, like these. https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Specialized/S-Works-Turbo-Clincher-Tyre/7ML1?s=1.
They come up a little large, I used to run the 28mm which plumped up the 31mm on a 21mm inside diameter Roval rim.
The new rapid air tubeless ones are a little spendy, but stick like the proverbial through corners and are very fast in straight lines. They come up true to size on a 21mm inside diameter rim.
I use Specialized Roubaix Pros 25/28. The 25/28 which correlates to the casing depth being 28mm with the tread width at 25mm. In combination of my Spesh Roubaix Comp with Futureshock it makes for an excellent ride and good grip.
Schwalbe Pro One’s were on the list too but a lot of reviews had them down as being fragile.
+1. Hateful things! I've had a far better experience with Hutchinson Sector 28s, and have a set of Hutchinson Fusion 5s ready to be fitted (currently destroying the Sector on the turbo!).
I'm a big fan of wider tyres, though as noted above some do come up big. I ran Pro One 25s on Stans Grail rims, which measured 28mm. Ditto Michelin Pro 4s.
"I now need some new road tyres, I can get 2 x Conti GP4000s for £60, or 2 x GP5000 + two tubes for £70."
A awesome team effort by Merlin and Royal mail meant the GP5000s ordered on Tuesday arrived yesterday in time for my evening ride.
Why did i not get 28s before? Bloody awesome in every way!!
Only one regret, it turns out there is ample room on my frame for 32s.......
What are the disadvantages of GP 4 Seasons in real world use? My rear needs replacing. 4S are meant to have the best puncture resistance arent they?
4 Seasons are slightly heavier and have more rolling resistance than GP4000S IIs or GP5000s, but they should offer more puncture protection.
And how expensive sealant is. I think after printer ink, maybe the most expensive liquid on the planet!
Vs £10.99 per wheel for Continental Supersonic tubes?
Stans Race is £24 for enough to do ~18 wheels.
And how much your time is worth in setting the damn things up/ resetting them up/ fixing punctures/ binning them in disgust because road tubeless just isn’t for you
Like I said, I found 30+ bits of glass, flint and other cuts to a set of half worn tubeless tyres. That's a lot of road side faffing avoided!
And my experience with road tyres on Shimano rims is a 100% sucess rate with a track pump, the schwalbes on Stans rims required the compressor and the valve core removing but have been fautless once inflated.
Grand Prix GT are a great tyre too.
Still with puncture protection but more of an all-rounder than the 4 Seasons I think?
I found 4seasons a bit wooden, and I'm usually a bit unfussy about tyre feel, quite happy with Schwalbe Blizzards over the winter which were £10 each!
And they cracked when left in the sun on a commuter bike, so 4 seasons as long as they're not sunny ones.
Why did i not get 28s before? Bloody awesome in every way!!
Only one regret, it turns out there is ample room on my frame for 32s…….
I really like the gp5000’s in 32 🙂
And they cracked when left in the sun on a commuter bike, so 4 seasons as long as they’re not sunny ones.
No failures to report here in Scotland.
28mm tubeless GP5000s here on my disc bike a TCR advanced pro. Tyres are run at 70psi good grip and no loss of speed from 25s. Comfort big improvement. I think I could run them at 60psi.
Mavic UST with Yksion tyres - the mk1 tyres were definitely a bit thin, mk2s are meant to better. Certainly better in terms of comfort: 85 psi opposed to 110psi!
@kneed, then maybe I should aim for the GP5000s?
Just noticed that Q - sorry. Yes - the 5000s are a bit narrower for sure. If in doubt fit wise for your frame / fork.
Had pro ones in 2018. They didn't last the summer - very weak, tore up easily. Tried GP5000s last spring - still running them. Absolutely faultless.
Running 28mm Schwalbe Duranos (which is being replaced with the One Addix, which is also available in 30mm), definitely a bit less road buzz than 25mm.
It's a good tradeoff for me, a bit tougher and durable than the Pro One / GP5000 type yet doesn't give up a huge amount in rolling resistance.
I wouldn't touch GP 4 Seasons again, I don't think they are any more puncture resistant in the real world than other similar "all season" tyres but they don't grip or ride as nicely as say Hutchinson Fusion all season..... And I'd still use GP4000 or 5000 in winter if it had to be Conti. The claim that GP 4S rubber works better in cold conditions.... Thats never seemed true to me either.
Basically they're dated now.
Im running 32mm Gp5k tubeless and they are brilliant. Grip but roll easy. Comfy and fast.
The GT version I mentioned has the black chili compound, like the 4000
GP5000 tubeless here as well. Rode them on last year's Paris Roubaix and they were superb. The tubeless works so well (dedicated Shimano wheels so no ghetto) and is noticeably faster and smoother than the Hutchinson 25s that they replaced. I had never thought that they would roll better and faster , but they were a revelation.