[Closed] DMR Sled (full sus)

Quite like it now I've seen some better pics - the PB pics made it look awful in 'raw chicken pink'.

It does look a bit like a Santa Cruz rip off...

Must have missed that mindmap.
It does look like a Santa Cruz, but more Nomad than Bronson and they don't make an Alu Nomad.

It's quite an unusual suspension design, not like anything else out there. There's a bit of Pole Evolink in the dual links with concentric BB bearing, a bit of VPP in the counter-rotating upper link and a bit of Banshee KS-link in the more vertical orientation of the links.

If they've got it right it should provide decent anti-squat at sag but then rapidly decreasing anti-squat for minimal pedal kickback. The brake squat (stiffening under braking) should reduce a lot as it gets further into the travel, but at sag it'll be fairly typical.

Could be very good!

I want to like it, but it's shorter than my old Pitch five years ago, which was too short!

If they've got it right it should provide decent anti-squat at sag but then rapidly decreasing anti-squat for minimal pedal kickback. The brake squat (stiffening under braking) should reduce a lot as it gets further into the travel, but at sag it'll be fairly typical.

Naaa, the anti sag will only come into play when the astral plane is in alignment with the 3rd phase of the Ursa Major allowing the rider to truly emerge as a multi dimensional being in the 4th and 5th dimensions.

Better photo from pb
[img] [/img]

To be honest tinas - it looks longish for it's seat tube length. The XL isn't much longer than the L though.

Factory Jackson is saying "Frame pricing is £1600, and there are various builds available", which nagates a bit of why I thought it looked interesting. I thought it was going to be more of a 'value' bike.

I want to like it, but it's shorter than my old Pitch five years ago, which was too short!

Which bit is too short? The current crop of specialized bikes are all shorter than this when it comes to reach and toptube. Was the pitch any longer?

It does look similar to some Santa Cruz models but in reality it may ride much different.

Reach on the Pitch was 445mm on the medium and 475 on the large, this is 442 and 462.

I'm actually genuinely surprised that the latest Enduro is that short!

Actually looking around, have all bike shrunk recently? What happened to long? I'm used to seeing 470+mm in Large?

I liked the look of this. Couldn't find any warranty information on the site other than a standard 1 year statement. Would like to know what size shock it takes too.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

It's quite an unusual suspension design, not like anything else out there. There's a bit of Pole Evolink in the dual links with concentric BB bearing, a bit of VPP in the counter-rotating upper link and a bit of Banshee KS-link in the more vertical orientation of the links.

To my untrained eye it looks exactly the same as my Alu Tracer 275, bar the linkage with many bolts in it (why?) and their swing arm isn't asymmetric.

I'm surprised at the prices for it given how cheap (it's all relative) the Alu full build Intense and Santa Cruz bikes are now.

If they've got it right it should provide decent anti-[s]squat at sag but then rapidly decreasing anti-squat for minimal pedal kickback[/s]IP lawyer properties.

; )

Excellent geometry. Well done DMR for keeping the seat tubes and chainstays short.

Price seems ambitious though. I paid a few hundred more for a Radon Swoop full bike with a Lyrik, Reverb, 1x11 etc and even better geometry.

Isn't the patent on VPP expired now anyway Jameso?

It may well have. There's so many US patents on just the projected pivot locations that I haven't looked since I last waded into that mire and got bogged down. It was a flippant comment; I expect DMR found a neat way to keep the back end short in that lower link.

VPP patent has expired! 😉

It may look like other things but you only have to move a pivot a few mm to change how the suspension behaves by a surprising amount. And a concentric BB pivot is a lot of mm different to an above BB pivot.

I'm surprised at the prices for it given how cheap (it's all relative) the Alu full build Intense and Santa Cruz bikes are now.

I'm guessing a lot of the cost is in getting the tubes hydro-formed.
However, considering the Bolt retails at £850 or so, it's a big step up in price.

I'm guessing a lot of the cost is in getting the tubes hydro-formed.

Helps if you're involved with a mahoosive frame building company then
(caution, link contains some horrible web design that slows your browser to a crawl)

http://www.kinesis.com.tw

Didn't click as I was on my phone! But true, you'd assume that'd help.
I was always surprised how reasonably priced the Bolt seemed. I actually paid £715 from Winstanleys, which not much for a full sus frame with shock.

Must have missed that mindmap.

They were bloody awful, but have since been updated. I don't think the DMR boys will have been too happy.

Agree that the pricing is ambitious and puts it right up there with established brands producing this sort of frame.

Someone obviously got a memo

[img] [/img]

Looks nice and all, but it's near the price of a bird aeris complete (which starts at £1826).

Looks great. Shame about bottle cage placement. Numbers look good too. Not sure TT measurement is all that relevant. Seat tubes have got steeper. Wheel bases have got longer.

Looks nice and all, but it's near the price of a bird aeris complete (which starts at £1826).

Merlin have the Intense complete at £1900!

I know they're not made in the USA anymore, but when did intense become almost cheap?

When they had a wholesale rework of their product range and cleared out the old stuff on the cheap.

As for the DMR, I saw it on Pinkbike and thought "that looks interesting for a cheap bike" then saw the price and wondered who on earth would buy it against some very strong competition for less money (Bird, Commencal, Cotic all do frames for as much or less) or posher, established competition for a bit more (Santa Cruz etc.).

coomber - Member

Looks nice and all, but it's near the price of a bird aeris complete (which starts at £1826).

i'm most concerned by the number of bolts holding the linkages together. looks like a future contender for the worlds creakiest bike to me...

VPP patent has expired!

I like DMR as a brand but the new trailstar and now this make me question that. Plus, terrible name.

The raw prototype looks really good - should have had this as an option!

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/14344649/

oooh oooh oooh, new dropper post alert on this bike;

X-Fusion Manic Dropper Post Specifications

Internal routing
Travel: 125mm
New shifter style remote
Double key-way design prevents lateral twisting
Wide range of seatpost angle adjustment
Two bolt style head
Claimed weight: 610 grams
Diameter: 30.9mm / 31.6mm
Total length: 421mm
RRP: £199

Not ridden one but saw and handled one on Sunday when out riding. It was very light but did have a light build with items like slant forks and a wireless dropper

Page formatting seems to have gone wonky after Mindmap's post on this

I like DMR as a brand but the new trailstar and now this make me question that. Plus, terrible name.

I don't like the toptube, but apart from that is seems like a reasonable enough evolution for the original Trailstar (a bike for messing about on). It's not cheap, but then the original was £199, and a Soul was £299, now a Soul is £550 and this is £450.

I'd argue that Switchback is closer to the right name for it, but then they didn't have the same cult following.

Page formatting seems to have gone wonky after Mindmap's post on this

Another 90's Brit brand jumping on the Enduro wagon

http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/core-bike-2017-identiti-bikes/

462mm reach in medium, 482 in large!

I reckon if they did that mettle in 29er, it would be my perfect MTB for big ass days in big ass mountains.

Looks really sorted.

+1

Seems like a gap in the market for a 'budget' Enduro 29er. Even if On-One just lengthened and slackened the codeine.

Not sure the identiti can be classified as budget, it 1600 for the frame!

I know they aren't direct sales but you'd think a few of these smaller brands such as DMR and Identiti would price themselves towards the lower end to encourage people in than compete with the big boys.

I should think low volume manufacturing means they don't really have the option.

I know they aren't direct sales but you'd think a few of these smaller brands such as DMR and Identiti would price themselves towards the lower end to encourage people in than compete with the big boys.

The huge amount of work that DMR and Identiti have put in to each project, the margins they give their dealers, the state of the £ to the USD - I'd love to see your working on what you would propose they do?

Well considering you'll do a custom Ti frame for similar to an off the peg, either volume manufacturing is a bit of a myth or you are seriously underselling yourself.

And do Radon, Canyon, YT etc not also do R & D?

Well considering you'll do a custom Ti frame for similar to an off the peg, either volume manufacturing is a bit of a myth or you are seriously underselling yourself.

That's a bait and switch, but.

1. I don't do them any more (trousers, USD, time)
2. I was selling direct.
3. I have a brilliant relationship with the factory who are lovely.
4. I was working out of my front room.

And do Radon, Canyon, YT etc not also do R & D?

Clearly lots. But they don't have a dealer margin, and will have more sales to amortise other costs (marketing, design, logistics) than these smaller brands.

Pat Jenner has been working on that, with support from Michael Bonney for a good few years.
What's his salary, Michaels consultancy, trade shows, plus desk, plus NI, plus trips to Taiwan, plus sample builds, plus build kit - what's that cost? Surely cannot be far of £150K you'd reckon? Easily.

So let's do the sums - they sell say 300 a year of that model? 400?
Over two years?
That's 800 into £150,000 - that's £187.50 per frame actual costs to the company before you've even got your metal in a box.

$400 for a nice alloy frame. $50 for paint. $150 for a rear shock? ? Plus shipping ($15), duty ($12)

So we're at $627ish? Which is £500 landed.
Add the £187.50, so that's £687.50 landed developed sat in Ison's warehouse.

They are idiots if they sell for less than 30% margin, so that's. £983+VAT to the shop. Who take £1600 less vat for the sale (£1333)

If you can point out the error in my sums, crack on.

I'd argue that Switchback is closer to the right name for it, but then they didn't have the same cult following.

Interesting insight into costs there.

You'll notice that I didn't say it should / could be cheaper I said you'd think they would price it lower.

I just don't see what their unique selling point is with these other than being vaguely home grown. You can get a custom frame from Starling / Nicolai for a similar price or most of a bike from a big name all for the same cost.

Seems like a gap in the market for a 'budget' Enduro 29er.

There is the YT Jeffsy, and the Mega 290 when CRC are punting them out cheap.

I totally agree it's an under-served niche - but I bet there must be a few things in the pipeline here and there.

DMR Sled suspension analysis

Well in a curious way it did. I still meet and reminisce on the trails with fellow former Switchback owners, but it is a brand name with issues for DMR to be sure.

I loved mine, it was my first foray into 'niche' (at the time) bikes, away from 80mm travel alloy XC bikes. Loads of fun, the steering was ridiculously quick! Although I did eventually swap the frame for a 456.

Never cracked mine, although the seatpost seized and the next owner cracked the seatstay getting it out.