[Closed] Ditching the FS for a hardcore HT? Thoughts?

I would ditch my FS for an DB Alpine if I could afford it.

Why? Cos they look ACE!

I am Gnar -10 whatever I ride 🙁

about 18 months ago i swapped out a do it all FS for an MKII DB Alpine - its great the only thing that i would consider to replace it would be a Ti one

its set up with 140mm revs, 2x9 drivetrain and 819s with LUST tyres - its light enough, more than capable and just feels nice to ride.

it handles all my offroad riding, xc xxxc mince lite jeycore woodsy muddy trail centrey weekend warrior gnarfests, rad gnarly spliff dude

i still have a bigger fs for proper gravity assisted days - but it rarely comes out of the shed 🙁

If it's the newer Soul its plenty strong enough imo. I went full hardtail, a Soul and a Charge Blender for abuse but after a while i decided one of each made more sense even if the fs got less use. I'm now in the process of stripping the Blender and building a Pitch to complement my Soul.

Just get fitter?

I occasionally hate my heavier bikes, but that usually happens after a lay off, given a good set of legs on a good day I've ridden 7" travel freeride bikes around Cannock Chase and had a blast, as long as my legs can get it to the top without too much pain then I'm happy on the way down.

Commuting and riding with the roadie club actually make me less inclined to the the XC bike out, a few weeks off bikes and I'll dig out the XC bike again.

Evil Sovereign. Fabulous bike, just point it at where you want to go and off it goes. Used it in woods, peaks, lakes, scotland and I'm always so impressed with it. Very reactive to body shifts when on the edge. Running van 36's and LUST highrollers. The highrollers are good because of the strong sidewalls for when the speed gets up and you're bouncing off rocks.

soul + 5 is a better, more balanced pairing than soul + long travel HT IMO. The BFe frame, for example, is the same shape as the soul just burlier and will take a 160mm fork.

That said, if you're not riding the 5 then why not? Change is good - I regret not riding more bikes over the years and trying new frames out.

I just bought a Soul to replace my bouncer

Ala Trigger's broom all componentry will be moved over.

I reckon BFe if you're going beefier, or the new Ragley Bagger 288. The Bagger looks more fun to me (on no solid grounds I hasten to add!).

Blue Pig's not really a big change, it's a similar deal. Bagg it up!

My Pig weighed around 30lb with Pikes, Pro2/Flows and not ridiculously heavy kit on it, so don't go assuming that a 'hardcore hardtail' is going to be that much lighter than your Five, which you seem to think is too heavy, if that matters?

My bfe weighs 30lb built with coil pikes, pro2/flows, XTR running gear 1x10, dropper post. This is not too far off a 5 so I'll keep the five and enjoy a better back after rocky downhills:-)

so I'll keep the five and enjoy a better back after rocky downhills

dunno bout you but my legs offer decent enough suspension for rocky downhills 😕

dunno bout you but my legs offer decent enough suspension for rocky downhills

hmm, I ride HTs and know that by the end of a big day I'll be more tired than people riding FS. If it's a multi-day trip then FSers will hold up better.

I've got a Soul and a Mk 1 Apine. Love them both but the Alpine will get me down things I would baulk at on the Soul. No real idea why but I suppose the slacker angles and longer wheelbase on the Alpine(with a Marzocchi Z1 FR150 on the front) make it feel more stable. Since I've had these bikes I have never wanted to buy a full sus nor bother building up my Reign frame that is lurking in my cellar.

I love my hardtails...I've had loads I would say the Cotic Bfe outclasses the Evil Sov. In aluminium I preferred the Cove Stiffe over the Santa Cruz Chameleon....only have a Dirt Jump hardtail now but would built another Bfe.

For the races I have this year and the riding I'm doing right now on my FS (Tracer 2 & CCDB) I would struggle on a hardtail...even with all the best lines it can't climb as well on roots and loose loads of speed on rocky descents 🙂

Souldrummer's thoughts are where I'm coming from. Basically the Soul will get me down plenty of rocky stuff fast, so why do I need a heavy FS?

Where the Soul doesn't quite work is the really steep techy rock type stuff like the final bit of the descent to Slippery Stones at the end of Cut Gate. I had to do it in 2 sections yesterday cos I chickened out of one of the drops that I reckon is actually quite ridable.
Plus the drops at Lee Quarry - it's the slacker angles/lower top tube/more chuckable aspect of the Alpine I'm thinking will help me ride the tech stuff and therefore improve my skills overall... I want to work on my manuals/bunnyhops/drops and jumps and Cy did advise me agains 2 ft drops to flat on the Soul...
Whereas the FS tends to just make it easier to ride fast I'm thinking hardcore hardtail will improve skills..

work out the weight difference before you sell the 5

T'internet says Alpine is 5.5lb and new Five is 7lb. Mine is 2004 model so saving of 1.5 lb/3kg at least

1.5lb = 0.68 kg not 3 kg!

plus the shock - or is that with shock?

That alpine weight if true will definately be minus the shock and the five weight with shock.

Stevede, I think it's a reference to a Dialled Alpine, not an Alpine 160, so definitely no shock! 🙂

To be honest with you, if your ditching the five for a gimpy hardtail then your not riding the five hard enough! Them dialled bikes are shit girly looking bikes and them ragley bikes are what gimps ride! 😆

If you want to learn manuals/jumps/bunnyhops/drops etc, just learn them on the cotic soul, or even better a bmx. Keep the full sus

Brooes: Advised against 2' drops to flat on the Soul!? Ah. Have I just bought the wrong frame? I expected if you can stick 140mm of travel at the front that the back end would be tough enough to keep up.

I know they did well in the CEN tests (he mentions so in a vid), is he just covering himself?

Balls.

Herman: I would drop Cy a line and ask him.
He said that doing 2 footers repeatedly (like you do when you're learning)may not be a great idea.
Then again maybe he just wanted to plant the idea of a bFe in my brain!

Isn't the hard core / long travel hard tail just a marketing mans wet dream? A way for steel frame designers / importers to try and compete with the big boys? Or do the likes of the hemlock et al suggest otherwise?

Full suspension bikes are for old people with dicky backs.

Definitely ditch the five. How much? 😆

Elfinsafety - Member
Full supsensionbikes are for old people with dicky [s]backs.[/s] knees.
POSTED 4 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

thank god for that. I was worried that I was overbiked

AllMountainVenture: email in profile if you're interested.
It's a 2004 model (130mm @ rear - which is bang up to date with the new fashion of shorter rear travel I might add!) with an upgraded Manitou Swinger 4-way shock.
All in perfect working order, bearings have been checked and are fine, being a bombproof frame and paint it really isn't much different from when it was new other than a few dings around the bottom of the downtube from rocks (which are kind of irrelevant for a frame that tough anyway...)
It'll be frame and shock only though + poss the nearly new front derailleur, all the bits will go across to the new bike

Been there, seen it, done it and now gone back to squre one.

I mean I was a full susser rider, went all hardtail thinking full sussers were not needed. Now I've one hardtail, 2 rigids, a fat bike and a full susser and each gets ridden, it just depends on the ride.

Full susser 3 days of riding next weekend in Scotland, fat bike yesterday, hardtail on Monday, Rigid Tuesday etc, etc, etc

i keep fancying a tough as **** hardtail again.

i bought a kona hoss deluxe when they 1st came out, ran it with a set of 120mm bombers.
it was fantastic, rode down anything i had the balls to ride, it was pretty good at climbing too cos of the mega stiff frame.
no maintainance, no ****ing about with shock settings, always ready to ride.

time and things were a lot simpler then, i yearn for those days.

Ton - simplicity and lower cost of maintenance is defo part of the attraction

brooess - Member
Souldrummer's thoughts are where I'm coming from. Basically the Soul will get me down plenty of rocky stuff fast, so why do I need a heavy FS?

Where the Soul doesn't quite work is the really steep techy rock type stuff like the final bit of the descent to Slippery Stones at the end of Cut Gate. I had to do it in 2 sections yesterday cos I chickened out of one of the drops that I reckon is actually quite ridable.

POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

I rode that last week on my MkI Soul.
I wouldn't worry whether the Soul will take it, if I were you. Mine's had all 15stones + of me jumping up and down on it, as my only mountain bike, since I got it 5 years ago.

get yourself a HT... skills, not suspension!

i've got an Alpine and i'm chuffed to bits with it. i was meant to have been promoting a certain US brand by riding their bikes, but have been reaching for my Alpine whenever i've been "freeriding" with clients. such a fun bike. no faffing with shock pressures.

although i've never really gotten on with FS, but i wouldn't say that i am any slower than most FS riders..... don't like the squishiness of them.

my friend has a 456 which i'd also recommend. vfm is top and the frame can take some abuse.

invest in a decent (rear) wheel.....

"i keep fancying a tough as **** hardtail again."

I feel that too. Something very appealing and non-nonsense about the concept. Currently have my lust for an Evil Sovereign under control. Oh No, must resist!!!!

Currently have my lust for an Evil Sovereign under control. Oh No, must resist!!!!

Yep been there to

I had a Sub5 which I broke got a trance but tbh niether suited my er style
I bought a Cotic simple and it rode better and almost smoother than either full sus.
Binned the trance for a 456 (alas I could not afford a soul)
Happy bunny now
For some reason alot of the Q's locals are now back on hardtails

Been there too! had a yeti 575 sold that and bought a cotic soul and many other hardtails, thing is you will be more tired on a hardtail after a few hours riding and you cant keep the power down over the ruff and steel is not that light so you will have the same weight as your five and less comfort, control etc . I bought a short travel trail bike, 120mm , problem solved !!! just enough to take the edge off but requires bit more skill than your 140mm five and lighter !

Over a 7 or 8 year period...

Had an Orange sub 5 but always hankered after an Inbred. As soon as I got the Inbred, the sub 5 was never ridden againand was sold.

I then (as yo do) fancied a new full sus and ended up with an Enduro.

Having enough spare bits knocking about and wanting a HT again I got a SH 456 summer season (cheers Ton!), got it built and I called it my parts bin bike cos it was essentially made from worn out parts, some of which should have been in the bin.

The Enduro sat there being un used....but as i was no going to the Alps in them days, it kind of got "Alp'd" up with coil forks and a coil shock and tough wheels. That's basically all the Enduro gets used for these days.

Now on a 456ti now and loving it. OK I can't /won't / don't go as fast as my mates on their full sus bikes but I enjoy line choosing, the additional skill a hardtail needs over a full sus (IMO), the simplicity the lighter weight.

I feel braver on it than i do on the Enduro actually

Since I made the move, two of my full sus mates have got HT's. One got a 456 the other a chameleon, no regrets from either.

Over time I have too gone back and forward between hardtails and FS. Currently own a BFe and a couple of Commencal fs frames. I sold my orange patriot LT as it wasn't getting used at all. I thought it was NBS but I enjoy riding the HT more on 95% of what I ride. I have also ridden stuff on the BFe that I wouldn't on the orange just because I prefer the way it feels.

well, comparing to the list weight of a current 5 is probably not comparing apples to apples. the 5 has got burlier and likely heavier due to what people want from them changing a little, and also CEN regs have probably bulked it up a bit too. i'd be very surprised if your 2004 frame is as heavy as a 2011 one.
i have a 5 and i don't find it heavy at all. fitted with pikes, X7 bits, the standard wtb wheels, and hayes 9s. i use it for uplift days and holidays. rest of the time it doesn't do very much at all.
i ride a 'sensibly' built inbred ss, ( incidentally this is 853, upgraded from a DN6 one, which TBH i couldn't tell the difference between, when riding, so that was money well spent then... 🙄 maybe saved 1/2lb or something ) which is heavier than my mate's, fitted with sektors, on-one wheels, and hayes nines again.
i also have an alfine equipped P7 ( probably pretty close to a DB alpine in frame weight ) running 719s, 9 brakes again, and run of the mill parts otherwise. the P7 weighs 33lbs. 8o
good fun bike though.
if you want another HT, buy one, but don't try and kid yourself that it's about the weight, because that 1lb or whatever will likely make **** all difference in the real world.
out of the two bikes you have, i'd bin the soul, get your hooligan, and maybe get some lightweight wheels for it you can switch in for proper mince-lite. 😀
YMMV.