[Closed] Distance selling regs, store will not refund, who is right

OFT.GOV.UK "http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf"

sorry just read your post, you collected it, you had the opportunity to reject then and there? Which is the point of the regs, so if you receive goods and decide it is not what you thought you can send it back.

I think you may find yourself on very shaky ground if you choose to pursue this.

I think the key point is when the contract is concluded.

My belief was that if you pay online and collect in person, then DSR applies, but if you only reserve online but pay and collect in store, then DSR doesn't apply.

How this applies to a deposit I'm not sure.

Given that one of the underlying principles of the DSR's "cooling off" period is to allow "sufficient time for inspection" and the fact you actually collected from their outlet (whether it's a workshop or what you would call a "store" is largely irrelevant as they have handed the product to you and so given you chance to inspect, and taken payment for the balance, i.e. completed transaction after inspection), I'd say that you can't fall back on DSR here.

Essentially you paid a deposit on a "click & collect" transaction and then completed the transaction in-store. The workshop handed the product over and took final payment, so in all but name acts as the store.

Not a shop owner but have implemented solutions and systems to support online sales

My view is that if you paid the balance in the store then it's a store sale because at that point you had the opportunity to decide whether the item met your needs. DSR are there to protect the buyer from not having the chance to inspect the goods prior to purchase

It does appear the shop are being a bit tight with the rules but in my opinion they're technically right. I'd expect them to be more customer focused if you were going to exchange the product but there's more than one side to a story so I won't comment too much on that

DSR rules don't apply in this case. If the bike is a stock item, they may be willing to do a deal with you on another bike. If it is something that they had to order in specifically for you.. They are less likely to offer anything decent..

At the end of the day.. you chose the bike and you chose the wrong bike. There is nothing the shop could do about that and nothing they need to do about it in law either

Not that its realy relevant, but why is it the wrong bike for you ?

the bike was a fat bike, and in the flesh looked great, when i got it home and had a chance to look and reflect on it was when i changed my mind.
at the time of collection on the receipt i was given it clearly states that " if i am not 100% happy i can return for refund, exchange or have a credit note, it was on this basis i carried on.
i ordered on line i paid a deposit over the phone, and i said it would be collected, not necessarily by me, but it was me.
the basis for not deciding then and there was it clearly stated on the receipt their Returns policy, i was not told or advised at any time that this policy was redundant as i had collected which made it an instore purchase, because if i had of been told i would have taken longer to decide whether i accepted the bike or not.

My take on it would be DSRs don't apply but what's printed on your receipt does...

I agree with bonjye if that helps

If the receipt says a refund is available then I suspect that overrides DSR as it formed part of your contract with them at the time of purchase.

I am not a lawyer.

Have they offered you an exchange or a credit note?

aye, forget DSRs and concentrate on the receipt. Also check any terms and conditions online regarding store pick up.

the sad thing is i was going to use the refund as a deposit for my next bike until they started being awkward and then i lost confidence in them

Were you going to swap it for something else at the same store simply paying with the refund? They may be more amenable to that option as they'll have shifted something else, kept the money in store and will be no worse off than they were . . . .

If not, it sounds like you've ****ed up.

I saw your comment on the Planet X thread earlier today.

Seems like you might have a bit of previous with them?

Was the bike customised? Ie, bars cut, any change of components, (by the retailer)

the sad thing is i was going to use the refund as a deposit for my next bike until they started being awkward and then i lost confidence in them

did you ask for a refund or exchange?? as these are different.

It does sound like the shop is being a little awkward but a lot of the time if both parties are perfectly clear with what they want this can be avoided.

its not planet x, its Triton cycles
if you read their Returns policy, that is what is on the receipt and the basis i proceeded on, if i had to decide then there i dont know what i would have done at the time.
i have been told categorically by them that i am being NOTHING from their returns policy and that i should sell the bike myself as i got a good price for it !!!
i am happy with planetX/ On one at the moment 🙂

its not planet x, its Triton cycles

I'd make a rubbish detective.

I don't think that a receipt is considered part of a contract. You'll need to look at what you agreed to before you paid the deposit. I suspect you ticked a box that said you agreed to terms and conditions. Your statutory rights won't be effected, but if you chose the bike without any input from the retailer, ie they didn't recommend it to you, they can't be held accountable for it not being suitable.

Do they know you want to buy another bike from them? If not, tell them you want to use the value of this bike as a deposit for the next. I don't know the shop in question and I don't wish to be rude, but they may have lost confidence in you as a customer. To get what you want, the right bike and to not be out of pocket, you may have to clean the slate with them and start again.

I hope it all works out for the best.

im not sure if a receipt is part of a contract or notm my point is on seeing the returns policy on the receipt that was the basis i proceeded on, it says quite clearly what there returns policy is, this was printed on the receipt.

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/delivery-returns-info-i5

in my business i am in trouble if i dont give my customer the right advice and information, i was not given any such advice.

these are their terms and conditions

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/terms-conditions-i7

am i still wrong?

I'd be pretty annoyed in your shoes as the returns info seems pretty clear to me. You did try and return within 7 days? You have all the packaging etc?

The terms and conditions assume a mail order purchase and as such refer to a mail order purchase. This is not a mail order purchase so they don't apply unless Triton concede to it in an act of goodwill.
It would appear that they are not forthcoming with this goodwill.
You have one of two alternatives.
Proceed as they have suggested or seek legal advice.
Try not to incur too much in the way of costs when seeking legal advice as they'll basically tell you as above.
I work in retail. Mail order and shop although not bikes. Same model applies. Their returns policy is legally required under distance selling regs. They would much rather not have to do any of it. You didn't purchase from a distance. DSR does not apply.
What bike and how much did you pay? I'd like a fat bike.

"Please call or email us to let us know that you wish to return the item and your reason for doing so. If you're not completely satisfied with an item you may return it within 7 days, and we'll happy to receive it back for a refund or exchange. Please ensure that you keep the original packaging and any labels remain intact."

From their returns info.

If you meet the time limit, and the other conditions, it seems strange they wouldn't just refund you.

Those ts&cs are for web purchases, which I guess are void as you picked the bike up and paid the balance in the shop/workshop/shed/not online. As irritating as it is, I dont think the shop are legally obligated to refund you, although if it is in perfect condition (ie no custom cut bits) and still saleable, I dont see why they wouldnt offer at least store credit.

What made you change your mind?

Goes to show that providing 'click and collect' purchases is for the benefit of the retailer in removing your consumer protection, not for your convenience.

Still can't see why Triton Cycles wouldn't want to accommodate you in some way, given all the gush about customer service and satisfaction on their website.

Good to be able to strike that retailer from the list when online price-checking.

Good to be able to strike that retailer from the list when online price-checking.

Why? price wasnt an issue and had the op continued with the online nature of the purchase, would have been cover by DSR. Had he have bought in the shop, these wouldnt apply.

odd statement.

to be perfectly honest, i was more than happy with Tritons service, i thought it was a web order, and didnt know that my collecting it would have changed that, when i offered to collect, to do them a favour!! as they had priced match, shouldnt they have told me the terms had changed and given me the chance to back out if i didnt like the new terms.

it was a 2014 moonlander £1699
between the time of placing a deposit and collecting i decided i liked the beargrease more, so i intended to use the moonlander as a deposit till April. which at £2799 was another £1100 from me to them.
However when i called their office to cancel the order i became alarmed at their reluctance to agree to the return which gave me cause for concern so i decided to cancel for a refund.
so the way i see it, they have lost another £1100, a customer who was impressed and some unintentional publicity. I just hope its the owner who has vetoed it because i would be disappointed with my manager handling it like this

An email or written correspondence to their sales manager or representative explaining the situation should help

they may have the wrong end of the stick about what you wanted to do

at least if you did decide to go further you then have things in writing

i have an email trail of about 20 emails, they are intransigent, inflexible and unhelpful ( i feel).
in all honesty i was really impressed at the sale, i paid a deposit, confirmed what i wanted a day later and it was waiting for me when they said it would be, which was the next day.
I would totally recommend them up until the time i collected the bike. at the point of collection i think i should have been given different advice and a receipt that did not say i could return the bike, as this is where it has fallen down

An email or written correspondence to their sales manager or representative explaining the situation should help

they may have the wrong end of the stick about what you wanted to do

at least if you did decide to go further you then have things in writing

If you do this, be sure to make the email pleasant, nice and ASKING if there is anything they can do to help and that you want to chop the bike in as deposit for a dearer purchase with them.

Remember you are asking them to go above & beyond your legal rights so ask nicely, appeal to the human side of the person you want help from. Don't act like a bellend saying stuff like "I know my rights" or "your customer service is poor" or you will get bare minimum.

Be nice and I reckon you'll get a much better result

🙂

This is a bit of a shame really - I can see your confusion and thinking they should refund but I dont think they have to. That said in the 10 years I ran a shop I almost never had an instance that I couldn't work out a solution to a problem like this so that the customer was happy. Not saying this is the case but my only real problem was when a customer demanded a refund and nothing else when they weren't really entitled to one (however a bit of fair negotiating I could always sort something)
If they ordered it in for you specially its a pain for them to absorb but even then they may be able to sort something
If its a stock item then as long as you were pleasent and willing to look at all options as well as refund I would have thought a solution was fairly easy to sort - specially as you were after another bike
I'd personally go with a "how can we sort this" attitude and if they won't entertain any kind of negotiation sell it cut your loses and avoid using them again
Yes they are t and vs for web sales but not everyone is an expert in the difference and its always best to try and sort problems for customers when they have been confused by a returns policy

Sorry to sound harsh but maybe best stop wasting energy whining about it on here and pop back in to Triton to get it sorted. Face to face always works better than email/phone.

Some shops first response is a NO until you apply some friendly pressure

Good Luck!!

So you wanted to keep the one you've just bought til April, then return it as part of an exchange for a more expensive bike? Or you want to return it now for a CASH refund, hold onto the money til April, then buy a more expensive bike (possibly) from the same place.

Look at it from the retailer's point of view - they've bent over backwards to help you (with the price match etc), now you want them to do you another favour (beyond your statutory rights) and give you 100% refund?

Have you explained to them that you want to EXCHANGE the bike for a more expensive model? I'm sure they'd be much more amenable to that, but you'd have to do it straight away, not hang onto it til April.

You haven't got anything to go on with DSR, collecting the goods gives you chance to examine fully. It doesn't mean you have no rights though, as it simply doesn't apply to this sale. The only way you could argue otherwise would be if you collected it part assembled or unbuilt in a box, as then you wouldn't have a fair chance to test it under normal conditions.

Their terms will then be in force, if the receipt states they will give a no quibble guarantee and they've told you that originally then that are their terms of business and they will be obliged to do that.

Whether you've collected it or not doesn't matter, as you're not invoking DSR but trying to make a return under their T&C's. If you've been given the receipt when collecting the goods that states the returns policy that should be enough to claim. If the receipt was given to you via email or something when you first ordered then it might not be as easy. This obviously depends on the wording of the returns policy you're working on which we've not seen. You don't have any statutory rights to return, but if their usual in-store returns policy gives you increased rights they can't back out of it.

That's my understanding of it, i'm not a lawyer but know it pretty well running a retail business with web and shop fronts. It gets pretty complicated when you start involving both sides together.

All said and done though, if you collected it you should have had enough chance to check it all over and make sure it was what you wanted before taking it and then changing your mind afterwards. Would have thought you could come to an agreement with Triton though to upgrade it.

To be perfectly honest mate, I know you are trying to make sure your rights are being given to you and I understand your dilemma, but you sound like a nightmare of a customer from your description. I'm not surprised the shop didnt want to do the refund.

You would have had the chance to check it out at the shop, no advantage was made in taking it home as you couldn't ride it then take it back.

How about you cut your losses on the bike and sell it, and they give you a good deal on the one that you want?

i didnt ride it

im not a nightmare customer, i offered to return the bike today and that they keep the value of the bike £1700 until the beaqrgrease came in stock which is due at end of april, so they would have had £1700 my money on trust for 2 months. i ordered one day and paid the next day in full, i offered top collect to save them money, not for my convenience.
how does that make me a nightmare customer.

my whole point hinges on the returns policy, if i knew it was worthless even though its on the receipt as clear as day, i would have taken more time to look it over, i was misled by what it said on the receipt either knowingley or not.
im not whining im just asking an opinion, hopefully it will make other buyers more aware

[i]Edit[/i]

my whole point hinges on the returns policy.

Assuming it's the shop's returns policy (which it sounds like), it will be at the shop's discretion and certainly not legally binding.

Unless it's faulty or not 'fit for purpose' they don't have to offer you anything, IIRC.

I suggest, as has already been suggested, you return and ask "what can we do to gain a decent outcome for both of us?"

I managed a clothes shop in darkest Essex for a few months in my yoof - I became quite intimate with retail law.

selling the bike is an option and thats what they have told me to do.
my original question was not what to do if they wont take it back, but who is right, i think i am but most people think im not.
i know next time i will have written confirmation of what their returns policy is, oh wait a minute i did, but they wont abide by them.

i just dont understand how i can sign for something and on the receipt it states that i can return it but then they can say i cant, surely this is wrong?

@ pimpmaster,
maybe it isnt legally binding, but if the preface to the returns policy is that
"we want our customers to be 100% happy and that is why we offer a no fuss returns policy"
is this then not misleading. nowhere does it say at their discretion.

Why? price wasnt an issue and had the op continued with the online nature of the purchase, would have been cover by DSR. Had he have bought in the shop, these wouldnt apply.

odd statement.

The comment about avoiding them was nothing to do with DSR. The point was that if they come up as cheaper when I'm looking for a bike or a part, I'll disregard them because I'll go out of my way to avoid potential piss-poor customer service, DSR protection or no DSR protection.

Goes to show that providing 'click and collect' purchases is for the benefit of the retailer in removing your consumer protection, not for your convenience.

I think that if you have had the chance to examine an item before paying for it then not being able to return it just because you change your mind is quite reasonable.

Mrs IRC returns about 2/3rd or more of the clothes she buys online. To a local store operated by the retailer so no postage cost. Must be a nightmare customer. Luckily she doesn't read this forum.

I think from this most people agree that DSR is not relevant here. However if it is says something on the receipt regarding refunds then give trading standards a call and see what they say. Personally I would say if its on the receipt then it is part of the contract and they should honour it.

I think that if you have had the chance to examine an item before paying for it then not being able to return it just because you change your mind is quite reasonable.

I don't think picking up a box from a collection point (which happens to be at a shop) is radically different from getting one via a courier, even though consumer law classes them as different. Does anyone actually de-box, set up and sit on the bike at that point?

It's certainly quite a difference from the retail experience of having a bike set up for you to see and sit on in a shop, then saying yep, I'll take one.

Consumers should be actively warned that they are effectively waiving their consumer rights by simply choosing a more convenient delivery method.

Consumers should be actively warned that they are effectively waiving their consumer rights by simply choosing a more convenient delivery method.

Well, losing the right to just change their mind. If the item is faulty you can still return it.

But it's a fair point. Either shop where you can see an item properly before buying or buy online with delivery so Distance selling regs apply.

here is the receipt
hope its clear, as i still dont know how im wrong
sorry i cant get it the correct orientaion

[URL= http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/lestershaw/photo3-1.jp g" target="_blank">http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/lestershaw/photo3-1.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

What does it say on their receipt if you walk into the shop any buy something? If its the same...

Can't make out the pic, on phone, but is that the printed online reciept? In which case we are back to the online vs buy in store argument. The terms on the reciept only apply had you not collected it in person.

no, thats the receipt i received in the "store" when i collected it.
not an on line receipt
thats what they gave me when i collected

Legal rights or not, given what the OP wanted to do (hand back and then order a more expensive bike) Triton are being shitty.

I wonder if this a 2013 model they got hold of cheap from Ison.

So if I went in and bought a tube, would my receipt look like that? Looks to me like they've printed what you would have got in the box on delivery, and given you that. So because it would normally be a mail order thing, it has the Dsr compliance stuff on there. Really they should have crossed it out.

But by giving him that he has entered into a contract based on that? Therefore that is what applies?

better picture of receipt

[URL= http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/lestershaw/Receipt.jp g" target="_blank">http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/lestershaw/Receipt.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

no it was this years model, it is a really nice bike, and i was really impressed with their service, but disappointed in the outcome. i also said to them, would you like me to try and sell some more for you and put the word around, because it was a really good price, and they said yes please do.

it says invoice at the top with my address which is hidden and it also states WEB order on it at the top

they've just printed you the receipt/despatch note that their online order system generated and handed it over - it even mentions return postage costs.

They'll say it wasn't a 'proper' receipt, I suspect.

[edit] actually, it's not even a receipt as it doesn't show payment.

I assume they gave you a till receipt for the actual payment?

as you say it's an invoice. whether that makes it part of the contract as you paid that invoice, I'd talk to trading standards/citizens advice.

it says invoice at the top with my address which is hidden and it also states WEB order on it at the top

The prosecution rests your honour.

I'm not saying they aren't being arses about it, and could easily sort it out, but for what ever reason they font want to and that will be the reason they give.

That said, ianal

if it says weborder and thats what they handed to me, isnt that binding? if its an instore order, shouldnt the invoice say that?
im probably not going to bother sending it back now anyway, just enjoy it for the rest of the muddy season and sell it later when i get the Beargrease.
Strange company methinks Triton, they already have a bad reputation, im not sure if this enhances it.
The thing is if i do a charge back they wont get their money for a while while the dispute goes on, if at all, and they wont have the bike till its resolved either, dont understand them at all
oh well

That said, ianal

Is that the adult version of irobot?

You could always try instead to return the On One Fatty you also bought last week.

i dont want to return the on one fatty, i ordered that for my mate in the office, he took delivery today.
to be honest On One returns are 99.9% brilliant most of the time.
you could have bought them both and turned them into the first fatty Tandem 🙂

Only one answer...

Trading Standards

They know more than STW but their forum isn't as much fun to browse

Should have gone to bikemongers...

Thinking about it that could be a great sticker!! (Although no help to you)

Can i be the first to suggest taking the bike out for a nice long ride? Less stressful than fretting over what it says on a bit of paper imo. And who knows, after a ride you might find you made the right choice after all.

Hope it works out either way.

The thing is if i do a charge back they wont get their money for a while while the dispute goes on, if at all, and they wont have the bike till its resolved either, dont understand them at all

On what basis are you expecting to be able to charge back?

The thing is if i do a charge back they wont get their money for a while while the dispute goes on, if at all, and they wont have the bike till its resolved either, dont understand them at all

If you do a chargeback and keep hold of the bike, they would be justified in calling the Police and reporting you for theft.

There is no basis on which to chargeback - the goods have been received, they're not faulty, there's no fraud.....the only possible reason you could invoke would be a dispute about the agreement that you had, but your cc company won't immediately chargeback, they'll request supporting info from Triton first, which will show that you collected the bike.

IMO regardless of the law, their receipt and offer of 100% customer satisfaction / happiness is [u]misleading[/u] and subject to argument. Therefore cannot hope to offer 100% customer satisafaction and will tarnish their reputation accordingly.

Send them a link to this thread, post it on their facebook page.

IMO regardless of the law...

Do you drive an Audi? 😀

I'd have thought the onus is on them to explain why they won't honour what is clearly stated on the paperwork which they gave you when you received the goods. 14 days to respond then start legal action. All correspondence in writing and signed for on delivery. Might be worth speaking to CAB or 'Don't Get Done Get Dom'! 😉

Legally, they are on solid ground. From a business and marketing POV it's a real mess. Any good sales manager would either let you chop the bike back in at full retail or maybe do it - a 10% restock fee or similar.

I would suggest that you state your intentions to them. That you are happy to let them hold the purchase price until the new bikes come in.

If they aren't happy with that then they really aren't a good shop to be dealing with.

ive decide to keep the bike, i cant be arsed with all the hassle.
im not sure why everyone keeps saying that they are in the right, i still think i am.
at the end of the day i got a good deal, they got some publicity,they "lost" £800 of my money and the use of £1700 for 2 months, it was a good thread everyone is happy, and hopefully some of us buyers who use singletrack are a little wiser 🙂

I'm sure you can give Triton Cycles a frequent mention whenever it's appropriate. Goes to show that if you behave that badly towards customers, a proportion will just suck it up because it isn't worth the hassle, as you say.

I know OP has decided to end this by keeping bike but lastly as it's been mentioned a few times Triton don't have & are not a shop. I know of them as they ain't too far from me in east LDN & I wanted to buy a salsa el mariachi SS early this yr I rung them up to see if I could see one & just check sizing, they said no I can't come down as they don't have a showroom etc & I just have to order it on line. I went to Flitch cycles in the end Stuart there was much more helpful.

Surely not actually having a shop but simply a warehouse degrades the principle of different terms for retail collect vs web and courier?

It does seem a strange way for them to behave, but I've met retailers with strange approaches before, and frankly from a customer perspective nightmare retailers are as much of a steer clear as nightmare customers may be to a retailer.

All a matter of point of view and the eternal (pointless) negotiation debate of whether the upper hand belongs to the person with the thing that the other person wants to buy or vice versa...

Surely not actually having a shop but simply a warehouse degrades the principle of different terms for retail collect vs web and courier?

It could be argued very legitimately that a building with stock in that takes money off you and lets you take a piece of that stock is indeed a shop.

im not sure why everyone keeps saying that they are in the right, i still think i am.

If I think that 1+1=4, everyone will tell me I'm wrong. I can choose to ignore that though, and keep thinking I'm right. Belief does not equal truth!

im not sure why everyone keeps saying that they are in the right, i still think i am.

Genius.

And you're a "nightmare" customer because this wasn't an impulse purchase, you've contacted them and asked them to price match, then got cold feet. Who's to say you won't do the same in April when you upgrade and then see another shiney thing?

Ahh it's Triton, total shits in my experience.

Retailers shouldn't make bold statements unless they're prepared to honour them. At some point someone is going to take you at your word.
ETA I'm definitely with the OP on this FWIW.