[Closed] Disc Brake injuries at Paris Roubaix

Yeah. Nearly as dangerous as having a massive ring covered in sharp teeth fitted to every bike. Wonder when they'll be banned?

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OP.. Don't knock road hydros till you've tried them.. Especially in the wet

Better change back to V brakes on my mtb

I'm not sure anyone has claimed that road disc brakes will make you faster, just that they'll slow you down more reliably. Did you see the number of crashed at the Lourdes DH World cup on the weekend? I wonder how many disc brake injuries there were with bikes cartwheeling on top of riders so frequently?

I think Viviani was more concerned with the disc brakes on that motorbike than what Lampre or DE were using

Did you see the number of crashed at the Lourdes DH World cup on the weekend? I wonder how many disc brake injuries there were with bikes cartwheeling on top of riders so frequently?

Were there other injuries as well or is the use of the word injuries in the thread title when injury would hav been more appropriate indicative of the inflammatory nature of the post ?

Hopefully this will be the end of them for a while!

Yawn

hora - Member

Better change back to V brakes on my mtb

Disc brakes off road is a completely different argument and a no brainer, on road as last weekend showed, what do they really bring?? Only 3 teams used them!

There is ONE advantage to discs and thats lack of rim wear, but even my non disc winter wheels are onto their 4th winter, so wear isnt really an issue either!

I'm sure a pan-flat course is the ideal testing ground 🙄

There is ONE advantage to discs and thats lack of rim wear

Disc brakes are massively superior to rim brakes in the wet. So that's two things at least.

[quote=crashtestmonkey ]Yeah. Nearly as dangerous as having a massive ring covered in sharp teeth fitted to every bike. Wonder when they'll be banned?

[url= http://twicycle.com/ ]http://twicycle.com/[/url] 😯

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simondbarnes - Member

There is ONE advantage to discs and thats lack of rim wear

Disc brakes are massively superior to rim brakes in the wet. So that's two things at least.

ooh yes because 2x 1cm square contact patches will really cope with that wont they 🙄

ooh yes because 2x 1cm square contact patches will really cope with that wont they

They do. Remarkably well in fact.

OK, is it definitely? Or 'reportdly'? Peeps quick to jump on the haterz agenda?

Second how many injuries over time has various parts of a road bike interacted with a rider?

What is this red-top reporting?

What next VENTOSO KIDNAPPED AND PROBED BY ALIENS

Meh, be fair to the op, mtb racers don't often have mass pile-ups like roadies do - where the front of your bike might ram the leg of a guy in the road in front, though there are plenty of sharp/stabby bits of a bike already

Not sure why P-R, of almost all races, needs discs though, especially in a "dry" running - no real descents, very slippy surfaces where even accelerating hard could make you skid, ...

Seems very little info on the true nature of the injury - not even a pic as far as I could see in 30 seconds on google. Do we "know" it was a brake rotor ?

Maybe they could engineer in a nice smooth, maybe thickened?, rim into road rotors - if genuinely necessary

And a yawn from me too.

I heard disc braked road bikes can actually give you the AIDS, Hitler invented them and they randomly attack small children... FACT!

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[quote=scaredypants ]Maybe they could engineer in a nice smooth, maybe thickened?, rim into road rotors - if genuinely necessaryand then cover it in an air-filled rubber tube to act as a "bumper"?

Sooner or later a disc-braked bike will win a big race and it'll be like when Paul Lazonby (?) won that XC race on a full sus Marin. Suddenly they'll be really commonplace.

I dunno as people have won on them in cyclo-cross and yet there are still plenty of pros running cantis. I think this is one area where the general cyclist will drive the market rather than the pros.

TheDoctor - Member

ooh yes because 2x 1cm square contact patches will really cope with that wont they

Well yes. Have you ever ridden a bike?

Luddites gonna Ludd.

No story there at all. A pushbike had plenty of sticky out bits to get hit and cut by. My worst is probably stabbing a hole in my thigh with a brake lever. 😥 I'm not convinced that should be removed from all bikes.

[i]Hopefully this will be the end of them for a while![/i]

Wondering how this ruling will effect the OP's riding...

Less mention of his teammate Oliveira also injured, fell and fractured his collarbone...

No disc brakes involved, its almost as if injuries could happen to any pro-cyclist irrespective of the proximity of a disc braked devil bike...

I think this is one area where the general cyclist will drive the market rather than the pros.

To a certain extent you're right, but I think the manufacturers are conscious of the [i]"legitimising"[/i] effect that professional use of certain bits of kit has on the wider (racing and non-racing) market.

TBH I don't think discs are necessarily that advantageous for most road racing, but then without them being put into use we'll never know, and they're not actually compulsory simply an option...

I read the original articles about this today, and to be honest, they didn't even seem certain what the injuries were caused by.

You'd surely have to be pretty unlucky to slice yourself open on a disc? Not doubting it's possible, but much easier to cut yourself in half on a chain ring, or lose a kidney from a pedal, I would've thought. I can't imagine the actual risk is that great. And given the extra safety disc brakes potentially offer, it's got to balance out.

Yeah. Nearly as dangerous as having a massive ring covered in sharp teeth fitted to every bike. Wonder when they'll be banned?

Comedy argument this one. So having one dangerous component already on a bike makes it ok to add another two 😆

There is a definite anti disc sentiment out there.

Some (on my reading of it) real anti sentiment in the CTC mag a couple of months ago in an article that from my perspective had more holes in it than a giant Emmenthal.

There's a way to go yet before they're mainstream accepted but I predict it will come. I'm fine with dual pivots on the road bike but I'd be very inclined to go disc next time for lack of rim wear and wet weather performance.

Wahooo.!!

Its another disc brake thread.

The 'Dangers" anticipated in the Peleton were more to do with some Teams using Disks out braking those without creating problems when bunching going into turns etc. The UCI highlighted "Burns" as a potential risk in a collision with other riders but as has been mentioned above the PR isn't the best place to test how much heat you can get into a rotor, Wheel changes were also a contributing factor for the PR i suppose with most teams sticking to the tried and trusted QR over a bolt through skewer, AND getting a rotor to sit between those pads is a right PITA, It can't just be me who sways about like a drunken bum trying to focus on both pads whilst slotting the disk carefully in.

Comedy argument this one. So having one dangerous component already on a bike makes it ok to add another two

Looked at in isolation that could be said but there are other factors like improved and consistent braking in cruddy conditions that might influence accident rates (either way) and performance advantage weighed against injury risks that teams and the UCI will no doubt weigh up. They're a much less exposed slicer risk than a chainring IMO.

I'm just about to buy some Roadie Discs and now armed with this new information I'm not sure if I should.

I'm wondering though if I run a lower tyre pressure would that make things safer on 28c tyre opposed to a 25c tyre?

I would feel a little uncomfortable riding a chaingang with folk on disc braked bikes, its an unnecessary hazard.

Fortunately, to date, I haven't seen any riders with them, probably due to others feeling the same and also because most people will have two or three bikes so compatibility is important.

This compatibility issue will matter less to people just joining the sport so perhaps they'll get a hold in time but for me with maybe one more new bike in me, they are definitely not an option.

Depends what you do with a bike as to whether they have merit, for sports cycling I just dont see the need.

They want to tarmac them cobbles while they're st it, too.

Some pretty extreme views here!
Let's be honest, the chance of getting hurt by a disc are pretty low. And on the road discs aren't going to make you faster, being as they are marginally heavier and less aero, but there are advantages for us mere mortals.

To my mind the main advantage of using disc brakes is that you no longer have to accommodate braking at the rim, freeing the engineers to improve the rim profile, weight and tyres, lighter, aero-section carbon rims, with wider tubs or tubeless tyres, all with consistent braking? Cake and eat it? Who knows...

Roadies seem weird. Too many rules.

The faster rate my road disc equipt buddy slows down has been a factor for those of us behind him who are on rim brakes. Makes your reactions quicker & you plan ahead for braking zones. But his brakes work on the mucky roads around here whilst ours just sound gritty, you can almost feel the money being worn off the rims

In a mass pile up - the sort you see almost every day in the pro peleton - it would be nice to have one less sharp thing to fall on. And I don't think it is the falling onto one's own disk that is a problem.

I'm a luddite, but I think disk brakes have no place on a race bike and are something nobody in the pro ranks was calling for. Wider tyres to go faster, however...

I blame Strava.

Given the pros have all been on rim brakes for years, training up to the differences of the NEW brakes will take time. I reckon one or two of the fearless descenders will have been training with them for some of the big mountain stages later this year.

Mr Blobby, arguing against discs on the grounds of the crash risk is the comedy argument. I am completely ambivalent about road discs - my carbon P+J is rim, my gnarmac winter/commuter is disc purely because that's what they happened to spec. I'd rather people had a genuine debate and impartial testing than citing spurious dangers.

People in general and cyclists included are conservative and resistant to change. A generation ago the pros were arguing AGAINST helmets.

Ban discs and keep motorbikes
Ban motorbikes and keep discs

Which one makes more sense...

If we're worried about crash risk should the H+S Racing Dept ban that shattery carbon stuff? In the old days the bikes just bent a bit. Now there's jagged shards and body-corer tubes exposed in pile ups, could get more than a mere flesh wound with that. Scary.

Luddites gonna Ludd.

This

Road racing is dangerous. Adding discs will possibly make it slightly worse, but more people had none disc injuries last weekend, I'm betting.

Performance wise, they make more sense for us mortals than racers though.

Woah! How can this be a proper disc brake thread and yet not a single person has said: 'but I can lock my wheels just fine with a rim brake, more than enough power...etc.'?

🙂

Ban discs and keep motorbikes
Ban motorbikes and keep discs

Which one makes more sense...

None of the above.

Stick a shroud over the disc, fixes the problem of people potentially being hurt by a sharp/hot disc.

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And on the road discs aren't going to make you faster, being as they are marginally heavier and less aero, but there are advantages for us mere mortals.

Interesting thought. On a flat road at a constant speed - agreed. But as soon as you through in acceleration and deceleration then moving weight from the rim to the hub may help (see the comments on different rim designs) - and that would certainly interest the sprinters, and possibly the climbers and GC guys. But (again) less rim weight means less stability which might affect descents detrimentally . But the bike would turn more easily that might improve hairpin descents.

But it would all be marginal.

TheDoctor wins spaz comment of the day, and it's not even time for elevenses yet, Bravo!.

Did Sagan have them fitted?. He could have sliced Spartacus clean in half as he wheelied over him. 🙄

drum brakes, that's what we need, really big drum brakes, then you can have your aerodynamic non-wearing rims with wide tyres, and no chance of having all your sticky-outy fleshy bits sliced off by dangerous discs, mark my words, 2017 is the year of the drum brake 😀

Stick a shroud over the disc,

Wouldn't be surprised to see this. Also covering the calliper to make it a bit more aero.

TheDoctor wins spaz comment of the day

Wow, that's a phrase you don't hear much in the 21st century. At least, not when you are married to someone with cerebral palsy.

I'm actually struggling to visualise how someone gets hit with a roadie disc - because it's not like they use giant 240mm rotors, they're much smaller, inside the fork.

I mean, i'm sure its possible to hit the disc, just practically speaking here.

drum brakes, that's what we need,

Morecash - apologies, I didn't intent it in that manner.

I would feel a little uncomfortable riding a chaingang with folk on disc braked bikes, its an unnecessary hazard.

Why?!
In a chaingang, clubrun or even in a road race, no-one is slamming brakes on. Everything is smooth and consistent and flowing and you can adjust speed using near microscopic adjustments in pedalling or tiny feathering of the brakes.

If you're slamming brakes on, you're [b]already in[/b] a serious situation - a car that's pulled out, a crash in front etc in which case there's probably a big group of you going down anyway. That's just the nature of being in a tightly packed bunch.

You watch that P-R footage at Arenberg. There's the initial crash (Docker) then at least 3 other sub-crashes at various points as riders swerve, brake, skid.
Then the moto hits Viviani (because he's also slammed on the brakes, skidded and dropped it).

I made a hole in my hand with a 2mm allen key the other day when I was changing pads on my rim brakes.

Well yes. Have you ever ridden a bike?

Is it worth considering crashing less? They seem a clumsy lot these roadies, always breaking collar bones and scraping their bottoms on the Tarmac.
If you want to complain about contact injuries, surely consider wearing some contact protection? They wouldn't even wear helmets until forced to! Cake and eat it etc.

[b]Singletrack[/b]world. You know, forum off the back of that [u]MTB[/u] magazine, and we're getting disc hate! 😆

simondbarnes - Member

There is ONE advantage to discs and thats lack of rim wear

Disc brakes are massively superior to rim brakes in the wet. So that's two things at least.

Three - slightly out of true wheels aren't an issue with discs.

@gaze.

Chorizo ... Ouch.

Singletrackworld. You know, forum off the back of that MTB magazine

There is a magazine!?!!!??

I would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

I would have thought a road bike doing a long decent would generate more brake heat than a DH MTB because the braking is a constant, rather the DH where its feathering??

There are WAY more scary things to worry about in a chain gang than brake discs. Poor group riding skills at the top of that list.

I would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

I would have thought a road bike doing a long decent would generate more brake heat than a DH MTB because the braking is a constant, rather the DH where its feathering??

No cos you don't drag brakes - a dab on entry to the corner is usually all that's required. Riders will look ahead and use riders 4 or 5 places ahead (or the race motos) to judge speed and the turn and obviously they've got the full road. If anything it's far less braking required than a regular rider on an open road Alpine descent and I've quite regularly gone for 5 miles or more on mountain descents with only tiny bits of braking required even on rim brakes.

Crazy - really? I have come off Alpe d'Huez over 60mph in some sections, you need to scrub at least 30-40mph off to get around the hairpins.

Ok full road will make some difference, but not that much??

[i]Wow, that's a phrase you don't hear much in the 21st century.[/i]

I haven't heard it 'in thew wild' since I was about 15, so 35 years ago I was a bit uncomfortable with it then. Now it reads like someone using the N word.

Crazy - really? I have come off Alpe d'Huez over 60mph in some sections, you need to scrub at least 30-40mph off to get around the hairpins.

Ok full road will make some difference, but not that much??

But you still don't need to drag brakes. If anything LESS braking is required since discs are more powerful. Come barrelling in at 60mph, 5 seconds on the brakes you're down to 35ish, whip round the bend and back on the power. There's not going to be any heat build up that the system can't deal with. Finned pads, heatsink rotors and a 50mph airflow.

The only time my disc braked CX bike loses out on road descents is on fast open stuff where it simply can't keep up with normal road bikes (lower gears, wider tyres).
As soon as the going gets technical, twisty, rough surfaces etc, I'll just fly straight past and use the far superior braking power - while the rim-braked bikes will be dragging all the way down I can let it go then use the extra power to slow down when I need to.

Woah! How can this be a proper disc brake thread and yet not a single person has said: 'but I can lock my wheels just fine with a rim brake, more than enough power...etc.'?

Shhhhhhh, they've already used the argument that;

I would feel a little uncomfortable riding a chaingang with folk on disc braked bikes, its an unnecessary hazard.

The faster rate my road disc equipt buddy slows down has been a factor for those of us behind him who are on rim brakes.

You're getting dangerously close to pointing out a great big (160mm) sized inconsistent hole in their argument against disks!

It's beautiful really, like watching a machine become self aware, but let's not rush them.

Stick a shroud over the disc, fixes the problem of people potentially being hurt by a sharp/hot disc

and could improve aerodynamics. If getting injured by bike parts was a genuine concern they'd have fitted carbon fibre bash rings to chainsets (that weigh about 2g and probably enhance aerodynamics) years ago. But it's not. It's finding a reason to justify natural resistance to change.

are something nobody in the pro ranks was calling for.

They weren't clamouring for helmets either. In fact they used overheating as an excuse as to why they shouldn't have to wear helmets. Funny that pros now are all wearing helmets with the vents covered. The previous generation had to accept the change, the current generation have grown up with helmets and it's a non-issue.

would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

Probably need at least A4 to write it out

As soon as the going gets technical, twisty, rough surfaces etc, I'll just fly straight past and use the far superior braking power - while the rim-braked bikes will be dragging all the way down I can let it go then use the extra power to slow down when I need to

Why do people with rim brakes drag? I've got both road disc and rim brakes and the difference is in having to break earlier, not constantly unless it's one of those windy roads where you need to dab the brakes quite frequently to avoid getting onto the wrong side of the road (not a pro concern obviously).

Why do people with rim brakes drag?

Or maybe they just don't know what they are doing.

Can't think of any other reasons.

Downhill, heavier riders may need to drag a brake to stay in place, but they would still need do that with discs. I think the suggestion is they dont stop quick enough, which is not my experience riding lots of alpine switchback stuff.

Apology accepted - sorry if I came across as over sensitive.

All of crazy-legs friends are mechanically inept and can't set brakes up.

Or maybe they just don't know what they are doing.

Entirely possible but this is something I've witnessed many times when I've been road riding on my CX bike, it's not just friends.
And I'm a crap descender too so maybe *everyone* is just crap but I've got more skill compensation with disc brakes...

I do tend to drag my brakes on the road bike as I'm heading towards a braking point, as I'm never too sure how quickly they will bite if its in the least bit damp. Basically a quick clean of the rim prior to full braking.

I can't see the 'hot disk' argument at all though in the peloton - on descents when the disks could get up quite a heat they are generally strung out, and group crashes are rare. Big crashes occur in the bunch, when (because) no-ones on the brakes, so there may be a moment of braking as you crash, but not enough to build up any heat.

Modulation and opportunities for rim design are the big plusses, wheel changes the negative. Safety is a non-starter of an argument.