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Interesting video from DJ. Unbound isn’t as hilly as DR but there’s potentially 30 -60 minutes of saving here I reckon!
Not watched it ^^^ but do they report that a barrel bar bag and bum bag make you extra aero?!
Hmm, so i supposed to be doing the 130km DR on the 22nd, however, a long term back injury means my (flat) 30 mile ride yesterday was my first none e-bike ride for about 4 months. It felt like id never ridden a bike before it was that tough. So whats the odds i can get fit enough to complete it in the space of under 3 weeks?? Some serious miles may be needed over the BH weekend....
Training has mainly consisted of indoor sessions as work and weather has been getting in the way but now I have watched the video I am not so worried. Aero socks, USWE pack and riding on the drops will give me a 30w ftp bump so happy days!
Have managed to drop a few Kg since xmas and according to Trainerroad FTP is still going up so things seem to be trending in the right direction. Feel like I am in a similar position as when I started the bike Transalp last year but am safe in the knowledge I won't have to contend with 35degrees on the event. A bit nervous but should get round.
Bike has just had a full strip down and should be able to get out a couple of times this next 2 weeks. just to give it a proper shake down.
Route GPX files are now up on the Dirty Reiver website
This was our training ride from the weekend... I'm not Dan, but the other bloke.
Nice one 👍🏻 I watched that yesterday 😃
Dan is annoyingly good on the gravel bike. I was hoping he was gonna struggle 🙂
Yeah! I was impressed with his 299w 2h reliability ride too 🤩
just loading up the route and the elevation looks very low at only 2400m and the route is less than 200km.
Anyone else finding similar in Garmin Connect?
I've got 196km and 2880m on Komoot.
Strava is giving 122.7 miles and 12500’ I think 🧐
I downloaded the route from strava and put it in Garmin and it cuts the elevation. Really odd!
After watching the aero gains video I was thinking about doing away with my bar bag but the info provided says number has to be on display out front so that will shelter the bar bag so no additional losses!
It would be interesting to see their CdA data applied to the DR course. My hunch is that the greater amount of climbing means that the slower speeds will make aero slightly less important V the Unbound course which is obvs longer and flatter.
I still can't decide which bike to ride. The second bottle cage and easier tool-storage is probably leaning me back to the Diverge at the moment even though I 'know' the full-sus xc bike will be less fatiguing.
Switching from a strategy of not stopping at all, to one of stopping at every rest-stop, makes it seem almost easy 🤣 I'm pretty sure I can do 2.5hrs on one 750ml bottle and a soft-flask full of sugar (making the Diverge bike choice less important). Would just have to pack enough spare sugar to top them up each time.
I'm doing it with a lighter mate this year and I'm already having mixed emotions about that. On the one hand, it will be nice to share the driving and have his camper to sleep in. But on the other, I really do enjoy being by myself 🤣
And on the ride, he will be bored and find it easy at my climbing pace. Even mid/high tempo for me is only 3.1w/kg which means he'll be riding at 220w (his mid Z2) and I'll be doing 300! Over 12500' of climbing, that's a big difference in energy expenditure.
Once again, I find myself approaching a DR wishing I hadn't bothered training and had just starved myself instead 🤣
I'm in two minds what to do about feed stops. I'd love to skip the first feed station, but 103km is a long way to get on two bottles.
Ride with GPS gives me 2930m of climbing
In a similar situation to you @crosshair. If I ride with Dan from the video above, he can murder me on the flat, but I'll be waiting for him on every hill. So I'm pretty sure we'll end up splitting up. I'm in group of 5 though, so hoping at least a couple of us can stick together.
Yeah it's tricky. I have no doubt he'll be happy to have a wee stop at the top and wait for me, or pacing himself alongside me- but that will make me feel worse 🤣
On our century last Sunday, he was flagging a bit and he nearly bailed out onto the backroads. Then we hit a drag of a climb and he ended up in the light-guy group up the road 🤣 I was gutted as I knew I was fresher but couldn't muster up the power to close the gap.
Last years DR was annoying with the crosswinds too as I couldn't unleash the full amount of potential energy on the descents. I was basically dragging myself up massive hills just to create the impetus to wear out brake pads 🤣
And of course, the route is miraculously devoid of any flat sections whatsoever 🤣
The first feed stop usually looks really busy with all the short course traffic too- I must have a think about that and perhaps take a 'disposable' bottle in my jersey to at least get to #2.
Can I ask how tight people would say is too tight for clearance.
Been running 35/38's on my cross bike and was planning on using it but on Friday I was out and got a big cut on one. My local shop had no stock but did have a pair old Vittoria terrine dry in the spare box which they kindly gave me to try. They seem to be coming up a bit bigger than the old tyres and there is maybe 1mm spare.
Am I asking for trouble having such tight clearance? If the wheel goes at all out of true I could be in trouble trying to get it rolling!
Have tried posting a pic but have never figured out how to do it with this site
I guess the danger is a stone jamming and damaging the frame or fork. Or any kind of mud if it’s remotely wet.
that's my thought,
are 35mm on the lower limit of width for comfort?
I mean I guess that’s up to you 😀
I can’t say I found it harder going on 38’s than 42’s but that probably means I could have run the 42’s at a lower pressure.
its more understanding the terrain/surfaces.
I rode the SDW a few years ago on 35mm tyres and I felt like I had been kicked the full 100 miles so want to avoid that feeling!
It’s a variety of gravel. There’s only usually a minimal amount of savage baby-heads. Most is pretty fine or well compacted. The sheer duration does make it fatiguing though.
I'm on 45s. Only because that's what the bike came with.
Talked myself into buying a 38t front ring today to help my legs with the climbing. I figured it might be a bit more spinny in places but can cope with that whereas I am fearing the climbs. It will play on my mind if I struggle on the climbs and I didn't make this change.
I was hoping to do my longest ride this weekend, prior to the event but have caught the cold that my Wife & daughter have had for the last 10 days or so. Pretty peeved about that as the weather was great today and I've been getting good miles in.
Just hoping it doesn't linger long & I can get a few more good rides in and be fully recovered for the Reiver.
I run 38mm tyres and notice a huge difference in how the bike rides and how fatigued I feel to what pressures I run. I think 30 psi front and 35 psi rear is what I've found to be best for my 80kg mass.
1mm tyre clearance is too tight IMO, my wheels can move more than that when riding out the saddle.
1mm is too tight. I think you'd risk the rubber hitting the frame on rough stuff or hard cornering as well as the mud and stone issues.
I rode the back 100km of the route on Friday. It is firm and relatively dry/hard. Last year I rode it on 35mm and it was tough. There are lots of chunky sharp stone section and some very fast descents where a bit of insurance is good. Nothing mtbesque but on 35s I ran firm to make sure I got round. Replaced my cross bike since then and can now run a 42mm, which I am doing. Slicks or limited tread (gravel kings SKs)
Thanks all,
panic over just had a rummage and found a pair of schwalbe G One 35mm in the garage so have stuck them on. Might be slightly less comfortable but I survived the SDW on them so think I will be ok.
Have Tuesday off so will try and get out for a decent spin to see how they feel
Another nice video and training ride @benman 💪🏻 😀
Are you feeling prepared?
I’m getting nervous now that my switch in tactics may not pay off 🤣
The lack of big training rides I did last year is leaving me lacking in confidence a bit so I hope the pay off is less fatigue.
I did a 5h13 Road century on Saturday but it’s not the same as a proper simulation ride.
@alansd1980
It’s not a universally popular opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I just noticed above that you have an xc bike option.
Unless you’re planning on sub 8hrs- I honestly believe the xc bike will be the faster choice.
I’m still yet to do my final bike selection test rides. But if my gravel bike had 35’s I wouldn’t even be choosing- it would 100% be the XC bike.
@crosshair I don't know what else we could have done to prepare, so I've got to hope I'll be okay! I've never ridden 200k before, so we'll see. I still had a bit in the tank after 100 miles. Hills are my thing, so if there are fast flat bits, that's where I will suffer (And where I will be hiding in the draft...)
One thing worrying me is that I don't have a power meter on the gravel bike. I'll be riding to HR, which I don't have as much experience with.
Look at the profile- there’s no flats 😭 😭 🤣
The closest you’ll get is a headwind downhill 🤣
If it helps, my HR has been mid Z2 average both times.
You’ll be able to climb within yourself all day so should have plenty in reserve for the non-uphill parts 🤣👍🏻
I have been thinking similar, last year did lots of mile on the XC bike and did 8+ hour days for a week non stop so know the position should be ok for 10+ hours.
My XC bike is probably as light as my gravel bike so it's maybe just sensible to bite the bullet.Its also got a 52 at the back which will probably help towards the end of the day!
I have all day tomorrow for a last shake down ride and had planned an on road route but maybe accepting I am no racing snake and the comfy bike will be best is sensible!
Watch how fast the dude towards the end of this 2019 vid went on an XC Bike 😉 (I think it’s my strava-crush Harold Evans who did it in 6h53m44s 😱)
The guy in the video said he won but on chip time- Harold beat him 😎
I truly don’t think it’s a “slower” option 🧐
(Although Harold won it in 2021 with a time of 6h44m39s on a gravel bike so who knows 😉 🤣🤣 )
Insanely, his time in 2022 was 6h44m54 😱 That’s pretty bonkers how close it was over such a long course.
This must be one of the few videos I haven't watched on the trainer!
Best part of it is that bounty bars can be energy food!
More I think about it you are probably right, I am a plodder. Not very fast but never give in. Am expecting to be riding for probably 11ish hours if I am honest with myself.
Trouble is for me, I got a gravel bike, then ‘found’ Dirty Reiver in order to do something gravelly on it 🤣
It feels insulting to my Diverge if I finally give in and admit I had a better option in the shed all along 😱 🤣🤣
I am in exactly the same position!
Have a lovey Lynsey CX bike and it mainly gets used for winter road duties and commuting but think this kind of event is what its made for so trying to make it work!
Really glad you made the suggestion!
Best part of it is that bounty bars can be energy food!
until you spend 90km trying to get a sodding bit of coconut out a gap in your teeth, and it's so distracting you forget where you are and what you are doing and then don't eat anything else and bonk 😂
Weighing up the pros and cons, the big pro for my Diverge is storage. It has the room on the frame and plenty of mounts for infinite handy variations of bags, bottle cages and the SWAT box in the frame for tools.
However, now I’ve done the “Dirty Reiver non-stop” thing, I only need to ride for 2.5h max between feed stops.
On Saturday I did 5h on 1x 750ml bottle and 2 x 250ml soft bottles with sugar in them- more than enough to get the MTB to feed 1 or 2.
Then the only advantage left in the Diverge column is that I love riding it and have done about 90% drop-bar miles this year.
But to counter that, I did a 70mile road ride on the MTB the other Saturday and wasn’t achy or uncomfortable afterwards 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤣
It’s going to come down to a coin toss in the end isn’t it 🪙 #firstworldproblems 🤣😀😀
Anybody looking for an entry to DR? Mate is unable to go this year due to work commitments.
Kit question… does everyone really take all the required stuff (survival blanket, spare base layer etc…). I’ve planned to (backpack, but would prefer not to have to wear one) - and whenever I watch anything about the tide, there’s no way the riders are carrying what we’re being told to?
Or are people better at storage than me? 🤣
*caveat being that one should plan for the weather…
Yes I have to date. Base layer doesn’t take much room, survival blanket is not much larger than a big credit card in its packet, 1.5l of water is a given and a whistle is easy around your neck and tucked down your jersey.
The most annoying things is the two tubes and a coat. They’re pretty heavy/awkward.
I’m tempted to scrap all my co2 and tubeless repair gear and just take a good pump, two tubes and an old fashioned puncture repair kit.
I can get even those to stick to the inside of a Pathfinder to mend a tubeless hole that won’t seal- it’s just whether the pump is good enough to seat a tyre.
Because whilst co2’s + valve and a tubeless kit are useful they’re technically doubling up as you still *have* to have the tubes anyway and I can’t bring myself to trust co2 with no pump (and a pump can cope with infinite punctures).
I’ll probably change my mind 50 times 🤣
I had planned to take virtually all the things. Don’t think I have a whistle but from experience of being on remote hills and the weather changing it’s not worth the risk. Plan on taking gore jacket and overshorts and some decent gloves.
On an event last year there were 2 stages which turned from 20-30 degrees to sleet in a matter of minutes. There were lots of people in shorts and SS tops getting brought off the mountains in the race directors car. Survival blankets were getting dished out and lots of blue lips. Not sure if I will take a handlebar bag or small camelbak but some extra layers are definitely coming with me.
Only one innertube isn't it...? I'll be putting everything in a 4L saddle bag, and then just have a top tube bag for gels. That leaves my jersey pockets free in case I jettison arm warmers/gilet
Oh yes, you’re right. I’ll still take 2 though.
Definitely taking a small bottle of chain lube this year too.
Last year I used about 300ml of sugar water on it in order to make it back without ripping my ears off.
I also pushed lady who had snapped her chain towards the end and in return she used some of her water on my drivetrain. All without putting a foot down!
That was quite a funny conversation 🤣
“Oh!!!- you want an actual push! Okay but I can’t put a foot down because I’ve set myself the challenge of finishing without stopping. But if you start yourself rolling I’ll see what I can do!” 🤣
I think she was a GB rider.
Just been having this kit dilemma myself.
Current thinking is....
Saddle bag for tools and tubes.
Frame bag for basically all the required kit - waterproof, spare thermal top, first aid kit etc.
Fluids in either Camelbak bum bag with 1.5l reservoir or Camelbak Rogue rucksack with 2l reservoir.
Bar bag with food, gels and phone. Ideally this would be in a top tube bag, but not enough standover height on my Camino.
I'm erring towards the rucksack, as it has more room to stash stuff like arm warmers or a pair of thin gloves to change into as it warms up. But, probably got enough wiggle room in frame bag if needed, so not sure. Got time to change my mind 5 times, still.
After all the helpful discussion last night I went out for a 5 hour on my xc bike and felt good. In Surrey so not lots of gravel but did a pretty lumpy Mtb ride with decent about of mud and 1500m of climbing in 70 km so about 25% more climbing per km than the reiver and lots of single track and slow moving terrain and felt good.
As someone pointed out, it looks like its either up or down on the route so being able to enjoy the downs with confidence will be worth quite a bit of time and really save on the arms and back compared to the skinny 35mm I can fit. I tend to get on the bars either side of the stem when on long drags so might try and grab some bar tape to wraps around the middle of the bar to give some different hand positions in comfort.
Kit really depends on the weather. If it looks bad, take plenty as bits of it are remote and it will be colder than the forecast suggests. IF the forecast looks good you will need less, just place to put stuff you take off after the first few hours when it warms up.
Last year I got everything in a 1L saddle bag,1L top tube bag and pockets but the forecast was good. Two tubes, hexus multi tool pump/co2 combo thing and a few odds and ends like cable ties in the saddle bag along with suvival blanket, whistle and what not. Waterproof in the pocket, phone, food. Top tube bag had mesh base layer, knitted gloves when they came off and a bit more food. Arm warmers went round my wrists.
IF it looks like we may get wet I may need to carry more - proper spare gloves and maybe a more substantial spare layer
I attempted to settle the bike issue last night. Did a 40 min loop with a gravel climb, a couple of small muddy bits, a stretch of cycle path and a road section.
The idea wasn’t to ride to power but just ride to how the bike made me feel. Loosely sticking to ‘all day pace’ and not 40min TT pace 🤣
I did the first lap on the gravel bike with the 47mm Pathfinders set to 25psi. The intention being to ride the mtb lap at 20psi.
I was trying to make a mental note of how it felt on each section.
….. then got home and found the MTB BB is knackered 🤣🤣🤣
I’ve ordered one so perhaps the test will get completed another day but for now the Diverge is the bike of choice.
Crosshair; it's sometimes nice to have the decision made for you! 😀👍
Yes for sure 😀
The eternal tyre choice question has reared its head for me, I have the option of leaving my current 45mm Maxxis Ramblers or popping some new 42mm Pathfinder Pros on. Reckon the slicker PF Pros will be worth fitting, despite being a bit heavier?
Not sure I can handle the pressure of an express recommendation 🤣
I’ve never ridden Ramblers but have enjoyed two dry DR’s on Pathfinders if that remotely helps 🤣
Well because it was short of the free postage amount anyway, I coughed up for next day delivery and the BB arrived. Even better, I knocked the old one out with some old alkathene pipe with a connector on the end (used that trick on my race bike before now) and then squeezed the new one in with my big G clamp 🤣
So the MTB is back in contention. I would go out now but it’s tipping down and I’ve just run a bath 🤣
Depending on what goes on with group rides this weekend, I may attempt a beefier back to back comparison of maybe 90 mins each.
I am having bike second thoughts!
Stupidly I compared speeds on segments ridden on my CX bike and my XC bike and on everything except real MTB trails it way much slower on my MTB. On climbs there is about a 10% difference and this is consistent across different length climbs and segments.
Back to my problem, the clearance is tight with 38, but I am not worried about stones getting stuck, the frame is Ti so unlikely to come off second best.
Going to copy crosshair and do a couple of side by side rides this week to see how things feel before deciding!
My wife has no interest in bikes and is sick of hearing about this!
It’s an annoyingly tough decision 🤣👍🏻
The reason I’m not power-matching my test though is because it’s not really about whether the MTB is as fast on a 40 or even 90 minute blast.
My hunch is that in *hour* 7,8 and 9- the saving of billions of extra vibrations through the suspension and bigger tyres on the mtb will add up to a nicer day out.
The thing is, ten years ago, DR would have been a mtb marathon event if it existed. The few nutters riding it on cross bikes would have been considered niche 🤣
There’s more factors too. I may have to employ the bathroom scales and also consider that my Diverge has just been rebuilt by the bike shop whereas my mtb is ten years old!
What a pickle 🤯🤪 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bugger - anyone seen the weather forecast? Was looking promising a couple of days ago, now not so much. I think I cursed it by changing tyres yesterday.
It looks fine on metoffice? Cloud and sun all week. Bit less sun by the weekend but likely to be dry, highs of 12C. Maybe a bit breezy.
Given this is Kielder in April and it could be snowing, 100mph winds, or biblical rain that looks pretty good?
😁
The thing is, ten years ago, DR would have been a mtb marathon event if it existed. The few nutters riding it on cross bikes would have been considered niche 🤣
Indeed - the Kielder 100 last ran 11(?) years ago and shared at least some of the Reiver route I think, definitely the bit along the border river in the old route anyway.
It's hard to avoid forest roads. Some of them were used. They were used in the kielder marathon series too.
The DR doesn't touch any of the proper MTB stuff though.
There used to be a ride called the Bellingham Blast. Ran in around 2012. Used the Toll road and lakeside path. It was ahead of its time unfortunately. A gravel event before gravel events had been invented. Did that on a CX bike, some were on MTB, some hybrids and a few tourers.
For sure. The point is more that XC mtb’s are still blooming good at long gravel rides 👌🏻
I remember seeing folk doing the Breacon Beast on a CX bike and I did Max Exposure on the SDW on a 2000 spec £200 Halfords GT that makes my current gravel bike look like an enduro bike 🤣
The weight itself may be a decider against a mtb but wider tyres and suspension are only a plus IMO.
I had entered the kielder 100 a while back but it was cancelled due to low numbers, maybe in 2013.
Then MTB I would have ridden back then only had 26 inch wheels so much much slower and less capable the my 29er and my cx bike will be not as capable for the real mtb terrain but much faster for everything else.
I am pretty sure I will try some fettling this week and manage to screw up one of the bikes so my decision will be made for me!
I'm back/forth in my head whether to ride my rigid XC bike or gravel. Stack height is the same, and I've got a small aero handle for the MTB to get down low so I'm less concerned about aero. I'd say the MTB is comfier too.
On the website Rolling Resistance the 2.2 tyres I've got on the MTB have a lower watt penalty (15W vs 18W) than the 40c gravel tyres, and better puncture protection, and the MTB is overall slightly lighter.
So am I missing something or is it a no brainer?
No brainer 👍🏻
Okay so I just did the loop again. This makes it the least scientific comparison ever 🤣 The wind is in the opposite direction and the handful of muddy sections have dried out a bit.
As I rode- I realised the loop I devised is as favourable to the gravel bike as you can get. The worst off road is uphill where it’s a little lighter, the gravel is a hard packed multi-use footpath/cycle path that I regularly road bike along and the road section is quite quick in places.
Drumroll please! 🥁
The mtb was 1min50 faster! 34min12 v 36min02 🧐
Power was mtb 219w v gravel 214w but they’re different PM’s anyway.
I’ll try and make time to load them both up event-spec with tools and drink etc and see what the weight penalty is.
You're cutting it fine for the windtunnel test @crosshair;) Really interesting result. I suspect the difference in efficiency of each bike is within margins of error by the looks of it so comfort wins right? Or looks? Or frame mounting options? Or tyres....
I'll be on a Nukeproof Digger, running 43mm 650B Gravelking SKs. Thankfully, I have no choice in the matter really! Did an 8 hour Lake District ride on it over Easter. It'll do me.
I've settled on the MTB. I'm not even going to spoil it by weighing them. I may just stick a spare gear cable in just in case but otherwise I think I'm decided.
I have a pair of top tube bags for clothes and snacks and a big saddle bag for tools. One tube is cable tied to the bottle cage and the pump is in a holster.
Well @RichBowman seems to have predicted a turn in weather, now not looking quite so good☹
Anyway it is what it is, finished my packing today, just need to pick up some food supplies tomorrow, looking forward to it now, not so much the drive from Sussex to Northumberland though. I'll be camping in the overflow camping area with a red tent and battered silver Ford Fiesta, I'll be on my own so if anyone fancies popping over to say hello I'll happily get the kettle on 😀
This is the bike i'll be on, if you see me riding also be nice to say Hi to anyone.
I will be arriving Friday about 5ish bazz and plan on camping the same place so will say hello.
Not 100% what bike to bring but likely my lynskey.
Been trying to post a picture but thus website makes it so hard
Will stick a video up about my bike choice later once I've cleaned it 🤣 (And ridden it again one last time!).
Was thinking about strategy (yes I overthink everything if you are new here 🤣) and I think I've cracked it!
Last year, I used to ride to the chaingang for a couple of hours and then do the chaingang itself with 40 miles already in my legs. Knowing you have that big an effort to come means you automatically pace yourself.
Then I was thinking about DR and how, the worst that can happen if you go TOO EASY in the first one or two hours is that you can then go harder in the last one or two hours.
So I'm going to pin my whole day on an attempt to do 300w for the last hour! An EXTREEEEEEEEME negative split 🤣
That will include the super fun rollers on the Northern shore cycle path around the reservoir I guess (which I love riding anyhow). And should feel like a video game passing everyone who is knackered.
In order to do that, I need to average no more than 210w for the entire rest of the day!!! And ideally I will keep my AP and NP really close! So that means likely winching up every climb in granny gear IN ZONE 2 if possible!
It's gonna be almost impossible to execute I'm sure but that's my plan anyway. If nothing else, it will be funny to see what my power ends up being in that final 60mins! (last year I did just 146w/216w np in the final hour 🤣 ).
I think i'm wired slightly differently to people like you... even if i go easy in the first hour, that doesn't mean i have more to give later on... Maybe that's more in my head than reality, but it reallly seems like it.
So, a) I don’t expect to be able to hit the target, it’s just a mental trick to make sure I don’t go too hard and b) you would notice it if you went easy enough. It’s all about glycogen sparing. Using as little as possible whilst riding and ramming in as much as you can as you go along 🍭 🍬 🥤 😀
There’s quite a clear dip at half way on last years HR trace. I basically ‘bonked’ and spent the rest of the day riding at fat-max wattage 🤣
Fingers crossed the rain isn't an all day thing eh. Topped up the tubeless, lubed the chain, all good to go, quite looking forward to it despite the forecast. Just debating the outfit choice now, you guys braving shorts or going full leg?
Crosshair has bought Ian Stannards TT aero suit 😀
Marginal gains, every second counts en route to the beer tent.
Ian who 🤣
If it’s dry I’ll wear my speedsuit with the DR gilet on top to cancel out the aero gainz 🤣
If it’s raining I might try the Gabba jersey again.
Planning on bare legs at the minute.
I'm loving this thread and I'm not even doing the ride! Good luck to you all and looking forward to hearing all you stories from the other side!