[Closed] Ding dong - Stainless 931 Cotic!

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

*goes for a lie down*

Don't let Boi see this 😆

WANT!! 🙂

Hang on had that got clown wheels? please be a 26er

Actually feeling a bit meh now, what i want really is a 953 soul not a 951 Solaris

shiney and stainless;

[img] [/img]<

Where's the pic, although I am just imagining it and it a sexy bike also expensive I would imagine.

So it's as stiff as an 853 frame? i.e. it overcomes the flopyness of the 953 protptype Cy made?

£1,200

I really like that.

But for that money, you might as well have Ti, I'd have thought.

Lovely, and I mean lovely but too expensive (for me anyway)

Reminds me of a towel rail.

honourablegeorge - Member

I really like that.

But for that money, you might as well have Ti, I'd have thought.

Ti bikes are two a penny 😉

Reminds me of a towel rail.

With massive clown wheels?

muppetWrangler - Member

Reminds me of a towel rail.

If it was heated, it'd be a PERFECT winter bike.

Looks lovely! Why did I just buy an engagement ring? [img] [/img]

How about a matching lid?

[img] [/img]

anotherdeadhero - Member

Looks lovely! Why did I just buy an engagement ring?

Time to swap for a cubic zirconia?

I think I've just done a little sex wee! 😳

Time to swap for a cubic zirconia?

shewillneverknow 😆

Paul's got a 953/931 combo Soul prototype. That'd be about £1,400 though, albeit a touch lighter than 931. His small frame is 3.8lbs.

931/953 seatpost on the horizon?

I did a couple of prototypes, but they'd be insanely expensive. They're very nice, and very light, but I don't think we'll be productionising them.

Right I'm in for a 931 Soul version,

just need 29 others

any takers?

of course I will have to pass this request by the financial advisor (Mrs VR) 🙄

Hi Cy,
if it would be 26, I will put down the money!

Robert

I'd happily stump up for a 26" wheel version - that is one tidy frame! 😀

I could be in Vortex too.

Though I'd have to stipulate mine had mudguard bosses on the dropouts and seatstay bridge - for that money I'm gonna have to use it as the commuter too....

just one point, will it be stronger/weaker or the same as a Soul?

Just wondering what options you have on tube guage etc. Are the options less than 853?

I'd be interested in a 26" version

Before I ordered my enigma I looked into a 953 custom build and several frame builders said they wouldn't touch the stuff as it was way too temperamental to work with. Is this cheaper version more straight forward?

Pretty and pointless. And not made in a size to fit me.

Why do I want one so much?

Same strength as the Soul. Pretty much the same tubes profiles, it's just a different material run through the same mandrels at Reynolds.

Genuinely surprised at the interest. I'll talk to the factory about a small batch of assorted 26 and 29 wheel sizes. They'll probably not go for it on grounds of too much variation, but I'll see.

@ Ivandobski - 931 is much less precious than 953.

Cy, you barstardo!!!

I'd rather pay £1200 for that than a ti equivalent any day. Brittle vs Ductile. Know where I'd rather be.

Maybe in a larger than 19'' size ......... you know for us gangly ones ....

Too shiny IMHO + it would have to have headtube to run tapered forks.

That finish looks wonderful. If I had spare cash Id condsider one just for the shine.

Shiney 931 Rockit next !

pate - Member
Too shiny IMHO + it would have to have headtube to run tapered forks.

We're Cotic going to run 44mm headtubes across all their bikes?

The Solaris/Simple and the Rocket all have 44mm head tubes, yes. The Soul and the BFe don't.

Any chance of a 29er Soda in the next couple of years? Just while my youngest child is still small enough to sell to evil mine owners

No chance. Ti isn't something we're getting into any more. It's too expensive to get done properly, and because everyone remembers the days of £1k ti frames, no one will pay the money for frames done properly. Took us well over a year to sell less than 30 of the last batch of Lynskey built Sodas at £1,500 and they'd have had to go up to £1,700 to cover price rises if we'd have ordered more.

I've been frankly amazed so many people on this thread are up for a £1,200 frame to be honest. We really thought these 931 frames were pretty but pointless 😉

We really thought these 931 frames were pretty but pointless

TBH though, once you get past about £300 on a hardtail frame you're paying for "other stuff" rather than any functional benefit. Why not prettiness/nicheness/shiny shiny.

Some folk would spend that coin on a handbag/watch/other expensive tat, and you can't even ride it!

How about chroming some existing frame, most of the wow factor but far less cost.

[i]productionising[/i]

Ahem, 'producing'. Or, 'putting them into production'.

Anyway, that is a lovely looking frame. A 26" one could find it's way onto my 40th-birthday-pressie-to-myself-bike-for-life list.

I'm as opposed to redundant neologisms as the next man, but "productionise" has its place -- it's the act of modifying the design of a prototype to render it suitable for production, so somewhat distinct from "produce" 🙂

What Mike_D said, and what I meant. The prototype seatposts would need to be altered to make them production ready.

We'll have to agree to disagree, it's still a terrible word 😡

It's still a lovely frame 🙂

Would a 29er take a 100 or 120mm fork cy ???

Oooh, only just seen this thread, and just when I've legitimised two bikes to replace my Soda on the basis that they didn't cost as much. I don't think it would take much to persuade me onto an XL Solaris shaped one - although it's a pity that the 44mm head tube isn't an option.

<emerges from shadows>

Carbon Soul.

<vanishes without trace>

@the lecht rocks - The Solaris is certified for up to 120mm forks, although I like mine with 100mm fixed travel forks as I'm not a fan of uppey downy forks. Not sure what a 931 version would be. Theoretically the same, but until we've had one on the rig I can't say for sure.

@northwind - Carbon Soul? Really? Genuinely interested in that point of view.

what about [url= http://www.kvastainless.com/bicycles.html ]KVA tubing?[/url] I think it's cheaper than Reynolds and is a similar weight to 931

If you could reproduce the geometry and ride feel of the Soul in a lightweight carbon form, I'd be one of many who'd be dead interested.

Or if you could do the Simple in that ace green colour that you did the prototype Solaris for Singletrack.... or do it in black.... or any other colour apart from the magnolia ones currently on the site.

Carbon Soul made with lugs and tubes. Like the MTB equivalent of a Look or Colnago.

Now that would be a thing to behold.

Now if only it came with sliding dropouts...

Now that would be a [s]thing to behold.[/s] fantastically expensive

Kva was intended to be awesome

Maybe in a larger than 19'' size ......... you know for us gangly ones ....

Yes we need frames in adult sizes

cy - Member

@northwind - Carbon Soul? Really? Genuinely interested in that point of view.

Purely weight driven tbh, nothing very complicated. I'd like something almost as strong and a little lighter than my carbon 456, with a little better geometry, and preserving as much of the ride quality of the Soul as can. Soda almost ticks the boxes but I loved my Soul with a long fork in.

But that's wish-fulfilment rather than a sensible model choice I expect.

@nothwind, does a aluminium soul not interest you

ill 3rd the call for a larger soul! bloody midgets

"Aluminium Soul" have you no soul?

Heresy!

Yes please - i'm 6ft 4" and have been through 2 seatposts since i built my Soul in November

A carbon or aluminium Soul would be so wrong

i'm 6ft 4" and have been through 2 seatposts since i built my Soul in November

That has nothing to do with the design of the frame and everything to do with your riding 'style'

cynic-al - Aluminium Soul +1!!

price seems expensive for what is essentially 'badged' stainless tubing that's made in taiwan (not U.K. made tubes). and not far off the price for a U.K. made frame with real Reynolds 953.

saying that i bet nobody can tell the difference between the 2 tubesets when built into frames (assuming similar o/d and wall thickness)

saying that i bet nobody can tell the difference between the 2 tubesets when built into frames (assuming similar o/d and wall thickness)

If the stiffness of the steels used is near-identical (as it is from DN6 to 853), you can bet on it.

cynic-al - Member
"Aluminium Soul" have you no soul?

Heresy!

on the contrary, I have a Cotic Soul, just he is asking about other materials, so thought I ask him the question.

seriously.... why not just get a bunch of frames chrome plated? People like the shiny shiny.

Why did people stop chroming bike frames - it was good enough for 80's BMXers

I had a nickel P7 in 1994... hmmm chrome...

You'll be wanting an eco friendly bamboo soul next

I really like it - takes me back to BMX days when I was a kid. They were chromed steel, but same ace look.

Timc...your joke detector needs turned up.

never mind turning up, a full reinstall i think, lost me now 😥

Cy:

I'm not a fan of uppey downy forks

What could be wrong with that?

I dunno about a carbon soul...I am thinking of picking up a steel one to try out of curiosity and one of the appeals of the soul is the 'good old' steel frameness.

If you do decide on a carbon version please pay lots of attention to not overbuilding the chainstays in vertical deflection. You could probably produce one for the similar price as the steel one and it would be nice to look into one of the newer manufacturing methods, maybe even see if they can be produced in the UK? I'm a supported of lot of the eastern produced composites but I do wonder if we could do it here for a similar cost.

What could be wrong with that?

The seat angle changes too, I had a set of 'zocchi Z1's with ETA on my 456, if the saddle was set up correctly for riding allong, then knocking it 6deg further forewards actualy made climbing slower as the position became uncomfortable. And modern forks don't bob like they used to so travel adjust is largely redundant IMO.

The seat angle changes too

So, steep climb, shorten the forks, drops the front end down and you're sitting more level than you would be, and can get your weight forwards easier.
Steep descent, extend the forks, lifts the front end up (drops the front wheel down), so you're sitting more level than you would be, can get your weight back easier.

I still don't see a problem.

timc - Member
ill 3rd the call for a larger soul! bloody midgets

Edric 64 - Member
Yes we need frames in adult sizes

cough:

[img] [/img]

I still don't see a problem.

I was refering to seat angle, as in the angle of the seatpost.

Try riding a TT bike with the saddle pushed forewards on its rails whilst sat upright, its really uncomfortable. That's why prety much all MTB's have settled on seat angles arround 71deg, thats comfortable, knocking it foreward to 77deg isn't, it inhibits everything from breathing to leg strength (they've not been trianed to work at that angle). Not quite the 80watt spacer mentioned on another thread, but probbaly inthat ball park (or certinaly felt it).

What you trying to say TheotherjonV - my riding style is soo smooth!!!

ahwiles - Member
cough:

that’s not an XL soul though is it, it’s a 29er equivalent 🙄

knocking it foreward to 77deg isn't

Besides, steeper seat angle pushes you forward, which is better for climbing, and vice versa.

IMO...

timc - my joke was about Souls being a mainstay of the steel is real brigade.

TINAS shortening your fork changes your angle relative to the ground but not your position/distances relative to bars, pedals etc. Def helps on steep climbs IMO, and at most is going to be around 3 degrees? (50mm sagged)

that’s not an XL soul though is it, it’s a 29er equivalent

very true.

Cy [i]could[/i] get some 22" souls made, but no-one would buy them, because they'd be bloody ugly, just like every man-size 26er.

18bikes are getting (have got?) a large* solaris demo bike, pop in, take it out. Don't forget to try the flapjack from the wooodbine cafe.

your life will be better for it - i promise.

(*an XL is available)