[Closed] Diggers on Helvelyn !! 🙁

Seriously!!! Is there actually a program in place for these Lakes works, and who’s funding it?

I'm astonished that they can afford works on this kind of scale.

But then I looked at their funding list. They must be overflowing with cash...Unfortunately that isn't being matched by accountability.

https://www.fixthefells.co.uk/who-we-are/our-partners/

From that site

Tracked machines will also be used in 2018 to undertake repairs on other fells paths, including routes on the Helvellyn ridge such as Keppel zigzags and Raise to Sticks.

https://www.fixthefells.co.uk/spider-on-the-fells/

🙁

At least when building by hand they are limited to a more natural finish.

Hm. That’s quite a list.  I may need to reconsider my National Trust membership.  Quite surprised by some on the ‘stakeholders’ though, especially IMBA and BMC.  From the look of what’s being done, I wonder how many of the organisations listed will be proud?

Mostly negative reviews on fix the fells facebook page. Maybe STW could add to that?

Fell and Rock Climbing Club as well.

It's not so much that the work is completely unnecessary, it's simply that the methods being used, particularly on BWs, can be massively unsympathetic to riders, both on bikes and horses.

I can understand the need to try to control the way the path drains, but long runs of weird offset stepping and wide diagonal water bars are just unpleasant to ride. It's not even much fun to walk down - physios specialising in knee problems will benefit.

I've only ridden it once, almost 2 years to the day and didn't think any of the route we did (up Kepple Cove, down Sticks) was particularly eroded or needed any work doing!

I'm not a Lakes regular, far, far from it, but I imagine there's plenty of bridal ways that actually need some TLC but the powers that be seem to go after the wrong/easy to repair tracks.

Well that's decided my destination on Thursday then! Going to do the Helvellyn route from this month's singletrack.

The path up Keppel Cove (Glenridding Bridleway) was getting heavily rutted and sees a ton of traffic, so that's kinda understandable. Likewise for the lower section of track from Raise to Sticks - that was in danger of turning into a river at times, although those new humps/drainage ditches are going to cause some interesting moments if people aren't wary. And the top section of the Sticks (East) descent needed work - again, it was very heavily rutted and was probably migrating down the hill. Because of the gradient I doubt they're going to put anything else down, and they won't be pitching any of it which is a relief. Give it a few months and it'll bed in a bit and I imagine all will be fine.

Are there any MTB advocacy groups in cumbria similar to peak district mtb that could engage with fix the fells ensure all sides of the argument are considered and ensure proper accountability. May not help in this instance but could allow more sympathetic work to be done in the future.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how to sustainably manage footpaths and bridelways4 but the dialogue in the peak district seems to have been productive maybe a similar model could be used here.

There are also loads of bags of rocks on the path down from Boredale Hause. The cheeky one mind.

But literally on the path! Completely obstructing it for everyone - not even off to the side.

I guess they must be flown in by Helicopter

The worlds gone mad. Why not use the money to fill in all the potholes on the drive over?

justinbieber

The path up Keppel Cove (Glenridding Bridleway) was getting heavily rutted and sees a ton of traffic, so that’s kinda understandable. Likewise for the lower section of track from Raise to Sticks – that was in danger of turning into a river at times, although those new humps/drainage ditches are going to cause some interesting moments if people aren’t wary. And the top section of the Sticks (East) descent needed work – again, it was very heavily rutted and probably migrating. Because of the gradient I doubt they’re going to put anything else down, and they won’t be pitching any of it which is a relief. Give it a few months and it’ll bed in a bit and I imagine all will be fine.

That's fair enough then I guess, I stand corrected. Obviously looking through 2 year old roses tinted glasses 😁

What do they think needs doing on Keppel Cove? It's all just gravel motorway as it is.

@robert198750 - the Lake District Mountain Bike Association is in discussion with Fix The Fells, and trying to get them to change their thinking. We had a site visit on Boredale Hause a few weeks back - click here for more info

Are there any MTB advocacy groups in cumbria similar to peak district mtb that could engage with fix the fells ensure all sides of the argument are considered and ensure proper accountability.

There's something called the Lake District Mountain Bike Association which appears to be attempting to do just that - whether or not FTF are taking any notice of them is another matter.

This post  

suggests that they had a meeting with the Rangers about Boredale Hause, but went back and found the extent of works far greater than they had been told.

Cheers chaps. Looks like you are a few steps ahead of me in your thinking and efforts.

Bridleways are open to all users, not just bikers. The powers that be have a responsibility to ensure that all users can enjoy the trails. This means the tracks must be suitable, and safe, for walkers and horses.

Given the number of millennial snowfalkes who post on here there does seem to be a lot of double standards going on.

Pork pie anyone?

And the bridge twixt Keswick and Threlkeld is still down.

Bridleways are open to all users, not just bikers. The powers that be have a responsibility to ensure that all users can enjoy the trails. This means the tracks must be suitable, and safe, for walkers and horses.

Given the number of millennial snowfalkes who post on here there does seem to be a lot of double standards going on.

Pork pie anyone?

I'm sure this made sense to you as you wrote it.

I thought exactly that.  STW hasn’t had the reputation of being a young persons’ forum for about twenty years...

How do horses cope with the stone pitching? I can't imagine any horse rider has ever been up or down from Grizedale tarn to Helvellyn

They get their hooves between the slats?

It’s surprising what a good horse and rider can cope with. You won’t tend to find them hucking to flat often as the risks of screwing up a drop are likely to include needing to shoot the horse, but most other situations are quite doable for non beginners.  They do tend to avoid loose surfaces and excessively hard surfaces for preference simply due to injury potential for the horses’ ankles.  Similarly with DCC’s proposals for Rushup et al, this ‘fix the fells’ stuff doesn’t seem to take much account of any non foot use.

Can't imagine horses would have coped any better with the loose eroded gullies that the Dollywagon path had degenerated into before it was rebuilt in the 90s but in all the (several) decades I've been walking runing mtb-ing and climbing in the Lakes, I can't remember *ever* seeing a horse on the high fells. It's a bit of a red herring.

(Although to be fair many of the bridleways have that status because they originated as packhorse routes...)

I can’t remember *ever* seeing a horse on the high fells. It’s a bit of a red herring.

Not common at all, but not to be written off altogether.

eg

http://www.discovercumbria.co.uk/Horse-Cumbria.html

Its also reasonable to say that it’s a bad idea to poke the ‘bridleway’ status.

Presenting an argument that horses never use them anymore is likely to end in regrading to footpaths which has obvious legal implications for mountain bikers.

Chatting to Richard Fox from FTF at the Boredale Hause site visit, you need to lead a packhorse along a bridleway, irrespective of whether horses currently use the track or not.

It's happening all over.  The bottom of Snowdon Rangers looks to have been hardcored too.  They're smoothing paths out everywhere.  When mountain bikers groups complain they say "walkers want the work" and when walkers complain they say "we're doing it for disabled people" - and the disabled people are horrified of the shit that's going on in their name.

Council jobsworths, doing council jobs, spending their money, despite not being users of the area.

say “walkers want the work” and when walkers complain

I imagine the issue there is it will likely be two very different groups. If you pick a sunny Sunday to stand at the bottom of Snowdon with a clipboard asking questions you'll be inundated by people who genuinely do want the work but they're only actually likely to leave the comfort of their armchairs twice a year and never to see the outcomes they wanted*.

The people who complain are the minority of users who actually account for most of the usage, but 10 people doing 40 miles is not the same as 400 people each doing a mile.

You'd get the same if you stood at the bottom of a cycle path and asked about resurfacing the adjoining bridleways, most of the answers you'd get would be from your very casual users or folks with small children who may genuinely think it's a good idea and want it, they just likely won't use the facilities when they're there and the minority who liked the way it was loose out.

Is that ‘packhorse’ definition actually correct?  I’ve not heard that before and a quick google doesn’t seem to support it either.  That would lead to basically all routes being reclassified if true !

It astounds me that money can be found for this stuff yet roads are left in a state, council services are on their uppers and there are thousands of better things to spend it on.

If you know somewhere good to ride, ride it. Now and as much as possible because someone will be along to flatten it or fence it off in the next few years.

The road potholes thing is a lot of a red herring.  The money for these sorts of projects is deliberately raised/given for the job and would never be allowed near road repairs.  Road repairs sitting undone is more about Highways Agency (trunk and motorway) and local council spending priorities (all other roads). Obviously the amount of funds raised from central Gov taxation and council tax dictates what the councils have available to budget with.

Did Hellvelyn and sticks for the first time om Sunday. Glad we did now.

Also got caught out by the boredale decent, really looking forward to it and ruined because of those freaking bags on both the footpath and bridleway.