Difference between tubeless ready and non-tubeless ready roa...

shermer75

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They look the same. I used to put tubeless tyres on mtb non-tubeless rims all the time and no-one died. Is their any real difference? Especially now that road bike tyre pressures are coming down?

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:16 pm

shermer75

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Ps I'll be using rim brakes, which I guess will make a difference

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:17 pm

5lab

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£20?

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:17 pm

mattsccm

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I use any old thing. Tubeless rims tend to have nice big steps for the tyre to sit on which aids inflation. If that is a prolem I run a strip of duct taps round the middle of the rim which holds the tyre in the right place.

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:19 pm

footflaps

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My understanding is the groove in the rim isn't quite the same, so tubeless tyres won't lock in airtight.

Doesn't necessarily mean it won't work though.

NB With hookless rims, it's all different again, no slot for the bead, just good tolerencing on the rim profile.

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:19 pm

shermer75

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"£20?"

Haha!

Posted : 10/02/2023 4:21 pm

shermer75

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"I use any old thing. Tubeless rims tend to have nice big steps for the tyre to sit on which aids inflation. If that is a prolem I run a strip of duct taps round the middle of the rim which holds the tyre in the right place"

This sounds very reassuring!

Posted : 10/02/2023 5:09 pm

legometeorology

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Do you mean tubeless ready and tubeless compatible?

If so, the latter need taping, the former not (I think)

Posted : 10/02/2023 5:48 pm

legometeorology

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Oh, that's probably not what you meant

I assume just the same differences as exist for mtb rims, but more important due to higher pressures

Even if pressures are coming down, they are still way higher. I run 32mm road tyres at 40 psi, and that's a fair bit lower than recommemded for my weight (77kg-ish) I think

Posted : 10/02/2023 5:51 pm

cookeaa

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I've got tubeless ready rims but I'm running them with tubes on the road bike still. I'm not really sure it's worth investing in TR tyres while my current set are still ok.

Posted : 10/02/2023 6:21 pm

Northwind

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IME it's mostly about how well the tyre locks on if it deflates. Which is slightly a thing for safer punctures, but mostly just a thing for how easy it is to reinflate. I rode mine infrequently so the fact that the tyre stayed on even when flat was a very big deal.

Posted : 10/02/2023 6:47 pm

cerrado-tu-ruido

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They have a channel which locks the tyre is place so the tyre seals tightly and is less likely to get pushed into the middle of the rim when cornering, hit a pothole etc. Non tubeless rims don't have this as the tube keeps the tyre in place. I've got one MTB tubeless on non tubeless rims without any problems but I don't do jumps or real MTBing. Building up the rim with extra tape aids in getting a tighter fit but I doubt if it's like the fit you get with the channel on a tubeless rim. On my other MTB with tubeless rims, it's extremely hard to unseat the tyre once it's seated in the channel.

Posted : 10/02/2023 6:48 pm

Northwind

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It's air pressure that keeps tyres on when riding, not the beads. The bead will help, a little, but it can't keep the tyre on by itself and the air pressure will- the amounts of force are massively different (which is why you can push a tubeless tyre off the bead by hand) As long as the tyre basically fits on the bead, the shape doesn't really matter (as long as it's not insane anyway)

So the bead shape only really comes into play when the air pressure's not doing its job (ie low pressure or you're fitting a tyre)

Not to trivialise that, since that also happens when you're riding out a soft tyre/flat.

Posted : 10/02/2023 7:10 pm

shermer75

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Thanks Northwind- I can't copy and paste, but my main concern was the rim exploding if it wasn't sufficiently reinforced like a tubeless ready rim is.

Posted : 10/02/2023 8:43 pm

shermer75

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https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/dt-swiss-r460-18mm-road-bike-rim/rp-prod168802

This is the rim I was looking at. Should be alright, eh?

This is the rim that I'm comparing it to that's tubeless ready, not a huge difference in profiles to be fair:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/dt-swiss-rr-411-18mm-road-rim/rp-prod168797

Posted : 10/02/2023 8:47 pm

shermer75

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Hoping to use the first on the front and the second on the back

Posted : 10/02/2023 8:50 pm

rOcKeTdOg

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If you're going to run tyres under 32mm it's pointless going tubeless anyway. Below that width there's too little air volume at too high a pressure to let the sealant work. Basically it comes out too quickly. Nice fat gravel or mtb tyres at lower pressure are great. I'd stick with tubes on a road bike if it was me

Posted : 10/02/2023 8:54 pm

13thfloormonk

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I thought the R460 was tubeless ready?

I've experienced tubeless issues on a non-tubeless rim, repeatedly found the (tubeless) tyres on my Superfly sitting flat in a puddle of sealant, precisely because there was no shoulder on the rim to hold the bead in place.

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:02 pm

robertajobb

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It's all about whether the tyre will come off the rim if you puncture.

So the question is 'do you feel lucky ?'

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:27 pm

shermer75

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If you’re going to run tyres under 32mm it’s pointless going tubeless anyway. Below that width there’s too little air volume at too high a pressure to let the sealant work

That was my thought also, but I was hoping that tubeless road tyres had fixed that problem?

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:35 pm

shermer75

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"If you’re going to run tyres under 32mm it’s pointless going tubeless anyway. Below that width there’s too little air volume at too high a pressure to let the sealant work. Basically it comes out too quickly. Nice fat gravel or mtb tyres at lower pressure are great. I’d stick with tubes on a road bike if it was me"

That was my thought also, but I was hoping that tubeless road tyres had fixed that problem

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:37 pm

shermer75

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Hey RocketDog, that was my thought also, but I was hoping that tubeless road tyres had fixex that problem?

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:39 pm

shermer75

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**** me this forum is in a bad way

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:40 pm

mattsccm

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"This sounds very reassuring!"

Thanks you. It works perfectly and has the added bonus that it isn't ssome commercial solution but merely uses a bit of common sense.

Rocketdog. Ever tried sub 32s? Been running 28s and 30s since Schwalbe first brought the S one out.Years. Never had a problem and to be honest I probably run them over hard at times.

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:44 pm

rOcKeTdOg

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Rocketdog. Ever tried sub 32s? Been running 28s and 30s since Schwalbe first brought the S one out.Years. Never had a problem and to be honest I probably run them over hard at times.

Yep and probably fitted around a 100 sets working in a bike workshop. 30 is hit and miss, that's why I said 32. 28mm and below is pointless ime

Posted : 10/02/2023 9:59 pm

simondbarnes

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This is the rim I was looking at. Should be alright, eh?

Yes, it's a tubeless ready rim.

Posted : 10/02/2023 10:01 pm

trail_rat

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If you’re going to run tyres under 32mm it’s pointless going tubeless anyway. Below that width there’s too little air volume at too high a pressure to let the sealant work

shit my propel never got the memo.

28s and sealant that works. Saved me from some good sized holes a number of times. perhaps you’re using the wrong sealant in the workshop.

Posted : 10/02/2023 10:03 pm

legometeorology

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Ah, yes the 460 is tubeless, CRC have the listing wrong.

In fact it you scroll down to the customer questions, someone asks if they are tubeless ready and CRC reply yes

Posted : 10/02/2023 10:08 pm

cookeaa

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I've got these in 20/24 on my road bike (with tubes and 25mm tyres) and 28/28 (tubeless with 31mm terreno mix) on my CX bike.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s116p4402/AMBROSIO-P20-20h-24h-Silver

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m20b0s116p4780/AMBROSIO-P20-Black-2021

Potentially Cheaper than the DTs you linked, wider internally, tubeless ready and available in all sorts of hole counts.

Posted : 10/02/2023 10:12 pm

rOcKeTdOg

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28s and sealant that works. Saved me from some good sized holes a number of times. perhaps you’re using the wrong sealant in the workshop.

Yep I can see how your one (ok two as I presume it's not a unicycle) example is conclusive versus many others. I'll throw out the sealant straight away on that valuable insight 👍

Posted : 10/02/2023 11:17 pm

shermer75

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"Yes, it’s a tubeless ready rim."

Perfect! The CRC blurb says it isn't, I'm guessing they're wrong

Posted : 11/02/2023 7:10 am

shermer75

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Ah, yes the 460 is tubeless, CRC have the listing wrong

Thanks!

Posted : 11/02/2023 7:12 am

shermer75

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Thanks cookeaa, I definitely would like a lower spoke count! The limiting factor is the hubs though, I need QR hubs and the choice at the budget end of the market is unbelievably limited. It's basically Sora with 32 holes or some weird brand I've never heard of

Posted : 11/02/2023 7:17 am

kerley

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Yes the R460 is tubeless. I have used DB version for years and currently using rim brake version - all tubeless.

Decent rims with good spoke count options, lowish weight for alloy and very cheap. The RR511 tends to cost a lot more though and is heavier for a questionable aero benefit.

Posted : 11/02/2023 7:20 am

mattsccm

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Faultless so far but haven't gone below 28. Always enough fluid to seal but never comes ut to fast. The MTBs have been Ok .

I think this proves the virtual pointlessness of trying to get a definitive answer really doesn't it?

Posted : 11/02/2023 2:37 pm

belugabob

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Everybody has a different experience - been running tubeless on 26mm tyres from the day I built the bike, 5 years ago (bontrager rims, strips, tyres and sealant)

May have just been lucky, and not had any punctures.

I feel that @rOcKeTdOg may have the definitive answer, though, purely on sample size.

Posted : 11/02/2023 9:39 pm

cookeaa

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Thanks cookeaa, I definitely would like a lower spoke count! The limiting factor is the hubs though, I need QR hubs and the choice at the budget end of the market is unbelievably limited. It’s basically Sora with 32 holes or some weird brand I’ve never heard of

Same here I went shopping on AliExpress to build the Road bike pair up, rear is Novatec, front is some no-name basic 20h hub that cost a tenner, hard to get a non-disc front QR hub wrong really whatever the spoke count.

The 28h rims are on cheapo disc hubs again from ali-express, IIRC they were about £30ish for the pair.

But yeah shop about for hubs, you can mix and match too if you want.

Posted : 11/02/2023 10:14 pm

escrs

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Ive been running 25mm tubeless tyres on non tubeless Campag carbon rim brake wheels pumped up to 90psi for around 5 years with no issues

The tyres were tight to get on and went up with a track pump and ive have no worries about the tyre coming off the rim if it deflated quickly

Had plenty of small puntcures in the last 5 years, they normally always seal and i dont even realise till i spot a bit of sealant on the tyre once im home

I also run 28mm non tubeless tyres on tubeless wheels, again no issues, tyres were tight to get on, went up with a track pump, running 80 psi

I have no worries of them ever coming off the rim if they deflated (they took 3 tyre levers and some swearing to get on!) again plenty of small punctures in the last 2 years they have been fitted, sealed fine and only realise when i get home and seee sealant on the tyre

Posted : 12/02/2023 8:26 am

trail_rat

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View this post on Instagram

This ,<28c sealed without bacon strips....which was a good because as I was at the head of glenisla and my spare tube has a 30 mm valve on.....my rear rim was a 45mm profile

I now have a valve extender fitted for these reasons.

Posted : 12/02/2023 8:54 am

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