[Closed] Di2 XT

And i've just got XTR 11 speed too 🙁 😥

Yikes, that's uglier than a Volvo.

Why is the brake kit $800?!

It's a cassette, if you want a pretty one Sram will sell you a golden one which shows everyone how rad you are. 11-46 would just give me that touch more rage I'm after.

Interested to see what sort of prices DI2 XT will sell for even if I'm not sold on the idea just yet.

woodster - Member

give me that touch more rage I'm after.

why so angry, it's just a groupset?

That's the new 11-46 cassette, 11-40 and 11-42 are still available. Can't disagree that the 11-46 isn't a looker...

Curious about XT Di2.

11-46 that sounds good to me. I tend not too look down when riding....

why so angry, it's just a groupset

Just look at it. Makes me angry.

Never mind the cassette, SRAM cassettes are where it's at anyhow.

A wireless 1x11 mech and shifter - lose a cable, can only be good. Shifter is tidy enough, mech is bulbous but OK

There's still the issue of mangling your five hundred quid mech on a rock though.

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It's tempting (assuming I don't have to sell a child to buy it); bloke who runs the LBS has XTR Di2 on his race bike and says it's great.

In all the fuss, they have quietly released 11-speed SLX too.

http://dirtmountainbike.com/news/shimano-releases-electric-xt-di2-adds-11-speed-slx.html?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=twitterfeed

Any idea on when the 11-46 cassette is available?

Hmm... readign more closely, it's not really "Wireless" as the title of the article suggests.

You can set it up with your phone, but your bike is still covered in wires. I'm out.

A wireless 1x11 mech and shifter - lose a cable, can only be good

Is it? Not how I read it. It wirelessly connects to your phone for setup and...reasons. But I think the system itself is wired.

edit - you spotted that too whilst I typed.

There's still the issue of mangling your five hundred quid mech on a rock though.

Funnily enough the only reason I was ever interested in Di2 was when I found out you could have sequential gearing on a 2x system, but now 1x is wide enough range, there's no point.

Also - why is there only a 21g difference between the 1x and 2x chainset?!

It looks great technically, ascetically like most new bike stuff it looks crap, but it's just more aspirational crap. Seems mid range MTB's are as good as they're ever going to be, and now we're just seeing £1000 forks, £3000 frames and £1000 groupsets for the top end. Di2 isn't trickling down, it's just re-badging with a slightly cheaper price tag.

Also - why is there only a 21g difference between the 1x and 2x chainset?!

Because an alloy inner ring weighs about 20g. What did you expect?

Were we spoilt in the early 2000's when it genuinely seemed that the new bikes really were leaps ahead of old ones? Now it seems you could take a 5yr old 29er frame, slap on a neon paint job and that'd be it?

Funnily enough the only reason I was ever interested in Di2 was when I found out you could have sequential gearing on a 2x system, but now 1x is wide enough range, there's no point.

You can bang through gears miles quicker on a 1x11 DI2 setup than you can on an equivilent manual. The one thing that pisses me off about riding rolling trails with 1x11 is that I can't change quick enough for short sharp climbs.

I wamt it badly. I might go back to 2x11 and stick a tiny cassette on the back to reduce unsprung mass - but we'll see.

Oh year, no cable stretch which is a bonus.

I'm genuinely at a loss as to why people get in a huff about DI2, but seem to be keen to accept SRAMs idea of innovation (bigger heavier casettes and more gears!)

Slx chain and mech plus xtr shifter will be in my future then.

I'm loving having Di2 XTR on my Dune! Click-> next cog!

Ok, it ain't night and day over normal finger powered XTR, but i still love it!

(budget, couldn't stretch to Di2 AND Carbon Wheels, so i stuck to normal ally wheels and spent the money on the 'lecy shifting. Right choice imo)

In fact, i'm just sticking the OneUp Shark 50 toother on the back now.......

I'll be having 1x11 SLX on the Singular Swift I'm building up. Lush.

The system allows you to run multiple Junction B boxes down the line, which allows it to recognize up to six different shifters…or just keep wire management tucked discreetly inside the frame.

Six different shifters? What does this mean? Is it really good?

On the road bike you can have the STIs, sprint shifters on the drops and climbing shifter beside the stem. Or for TT'ing you can have them on the brake levers and the aerobars.

Not much use off road though now we don't have bar ends.

Ah yes - a bar end mounted shifter. Now you're talking my language.

Still no XT 11-46 mechanical cassette?

I just like the ability to jump the 3 gears or shift sequentially really fast by just holding the trigger.

Makes me smile like a complete buffoon.

The 11-46 is for mechanical or Di2. Makes no odds.

Also, Shimano now say you can run 2x with 11-42 cassette (not sure why they didn't initially). So you can have a wide ratio range, without unwieldy ratio gaps. Run that with Di2 and synchro shift for a set up you ride as if 1x, but better in terms of available ratios, shift speed/accuracy and better chainline.

On the road bike you can have the STIs, sprint shifters on the drops and climbing shifter beside the stem. Or for TT'ing you can have them on the brake levers and the aerobars.

thanks. Knew it'd be something obvious. 😳

Those new slx cranks to my eyes look way better than xt. The whole group set looks good and well priced too

37t jump to 46t seems a huge jump.
Looks like shimano have taken a 11-42t, taken the 42t off and slapped on a 46t..

[quote=vinnyeh]Six different shifters? What does this mean? Is it really good?

Maybe not shifters.. but electronically operated dropper, lock-outs etc?

Almost affordable, which means i'll probably go for it if I can get my XX1 mech to ever die. (3 years and counting). XX1 cassette & XT Di2 should work well 🙂

I'm genuinely at a loss as to why people get in a huff about DI2, but seem to be keen to accept SRAMs idea of innovation (bigger heavier casettes and more gears!)

Heavier cassettes? I think pretty much every SRAM 11 speed cassette weighs less than Shimano's best attempt. Shimano shifters & mech's might be great, but they don't seem to be able to make a cassette that weighs less than a boat anchor.

Why is the brake kit $800?!

Wireless Brakes 😉

but they don't seem to be able to make a cassette that weighs less than a boat anchor.

Smart battery is a nice touch seeing as the etube software doesn't work with a Mac - guess you only need 1 smart battery if you have multiple bikes to sort the firmware, not like you adjust anything on the fly anyway

sillyoldman - Member
The 11-46 is for mechanical or Di2

You hardly expect us to use MECHANICAL cassettes with our new electronic shifting, do you?

I'm holding out until they release a fully electronic cassette and chain

You missed the word "for" despite quoting it? 😉

I didn't think it needed a smiley face.... then again, if you can have 29er specific saddles, anything is possible

Do you have to have the display for it to work? Obviously you won't be able to see the battery level but that no problem if you charge it the night before going out.

Do you have to have the display for it to work? Obviously you won't be able to see the battery level but that no problem if you charge it the night before going out.

No, you can just fit a small (cheap) junction box in its place, and use your phone or garmin to see what battery or gear setting you have if you needed to.

No, you can just fit a small (cheap) junction box in its place, and use your phone or garmin to see what battery or gear setting you have if you needed to.

Cool, that brings the price down a bit. Cheers.

Actually, im not sure now reading another article. It states you need the display to communicate, the battery just holds the computing power?

[edit]

That dual transmitter will be built into the XT system information display, and a new dual transmission D-Fly that’ll add wireless updates to both road and mountain bike groups. XTR will soon get a new display, too.

So you need either the display or the new D-fly unit... and the new battery.

The trick to making all of that communication work is that you’ll also need either the new BT-DN110 battery or BM-DN100 battery mount. Both contain the brains that allow those smart functions that make the wireless display work. So if you wanted to add wireless function to an existing XTR group, you’ll need to upgrade to either the new battery or new battery mount. The new battery will replace the original battery, so going forward you should see OEM spec using the new one.

A new battery was necessary because they couldn’t fit any more memory into the original E-tube unit.

[edit2]

Not sure what the minimum requirements are then for setting shifter trim etc. Someone with XTR di2 can probably explain.

Also, Shimano now say you can run 2x with 11-42 cassette (not sure why they didn't initially). So you can have a wide ratio range, without unwieldy ratio gaps. Run that with Di2 and synchro shift for a set up you ride as if 1x, but better in terms of available ratios, shift speed/accuracy and better chainline.

Why would you though (I suspect shimano's reason for not saying you could was just an assumption of common sense). Going 2x on an 11-42 doesn't remove the gaps, presuming the sequential is programmed to shift the front when you get to either end of the cassette (i.e. shift up at about 22-20 and down at 36-25), not hunt for half a ratio shifting every time in the middle of the cassete?

The real question is, which is lighter, Di2 2x10 (or 11) with a conventional cassette, or 1x11 (or 12) with mechanical and a dinner plate cassette.

So you need either the display or the new D-fly unit... and the new battery.

I read that as the battery has all the brains, and the 'computer' is just a dumb display and controller, so you could get the same functionality from an app (or if Garmin update their firmware).

My quote was from bikerumour, saying the wireless communication was in the display/d-fly (the original d-fly being the first wireless communicator they released), but the processing power needed for taking signals and programming is in the battery. Obviously ive no idea if they are speaking the truth though as other (less tech) websites just say the wireless is in the display and dont talk about any other components.

I completely get the benefits of electronic shifting if you are running 2x11 and programme it to only use one shifter, but when your running one by 11, how much of a difference in shifing is there?

Also does anyone know the weight differnece between mechanical and electronic? I imagine electronic is heavier?

Yeah makes sense you need either or can use both. Cheers.

how much of a difference in shifing is there?

IIRC the latest road groupsets (shimano) are now pretty much weight neutral. Veering towards electronic being lighter.

Same story with EPS and Etap.

As above and mentioned earlier, if I was still using a front shifter I'd be really excited by Di2 heading towards my price range. These days I'm so in love with 1X all I see is the hassle of charging and little benefit. The 11-46 cassette doesn't do anything a SRAM 10-42 hasn't covered already except add weight

Anyway, my rear mech is knackered so need a new one. When is 11sp SLX actually out?

Also does anyone know the weight differnece between mechanical and electronic? I imagine electronic is heavier?

I thought this when XTR DI2 came out, but it's the same or lighter than mechanical overall. I would imagine the same is true of XT (but could be wrong).

XTR DI2 (2x) is therefore on my lottery XC race bike spec. Apparently the shifting is a bit better, but as others have said the real benefit comes from being able to run front mechs with one shifter.

What happens if your bike takes a dip in the canal...is all the electronics ****ed?
How waterproof is it?

Very.

Cross bikes running Di2 get jet washed.
No problems.

Do the rear mechs auto trim like the fronts do...or have I made the whole auto trim thing up? If electronic keeps shifting spot on during the cruddy winter months then I'd be tempted by this, especially as I'm really bad at being bothered to fine tune my gears so they're always set up perfectly. 😳

I've been using Di2 on my commuter for (Alfine) for 18 months and 10000 miles. It's perfect. my previous mechanical Alfine 11 gave me nothing but trouble due to cable tension.

It should in theory be possible to swap the wireless mech, battery and shifter pretty rapidly between bikes. All you need is a different chain with a quick link, and a QR method of attaching/removing the battery. Could save a fair bit of cash there.

I'll definitlety be getting XT Di2 when it's wireless. My 11-42 Sram cassette has all the range I need. The 11-46t might just be worth it for big days. I rarely spend time in 42 anyway.

Rocketdog it's June/July for new slx

Going to be a long time before Di2 goes wireless IMO.

It should in theory be possible to swap the wireless mech, battery and shifter pretty rapidly between bikes.

You can swap those components pretty rapidly without going wireless, just unplug them from the Di2 wiring loom.

Ah, not for me - I haven't really gotten over destroying 3x £100 derailleurs in a week yet (7 years and the mental scars haven't healed) so I won't be putting any £300 derailleurs in harms way, but mostly because my mechanical 1x11 XT system works utterly beautifully. I'm sue d12 is crisper still and all that, but it still won't completely stop the chain hoping off my narrow/wide now and again and that's my biggest issue at the moment.

What you really want is two batteries and a single wireless system.

The seatpost battery with it's brain and wireless receiver/sender can be connected to the mechs (and later the rear disc brake). A smaller battery (inside the stem) with a similar brain and sender/receiver to power the shifters/display (and later the front disc brake) etc. these two are then paired. This means all cables are short and neat (front and rear) , large frame tubes don't need drilling for ANY routing (not even for hydraulics) just a small hole in the seat-tube for the front mech and in the chainstay for the rear. Mechs and shifters can be slim and neat and brakes can be self contained units. T'is the future.

The rear mech is £225, so not cheap, but pretty good value compared to other mechanical options out there.

Thisisnotaspoon - 11-42 gaps are smaller as a percentage increase/decrease, and also more even than 10-42. The addition of 2x option with that range increases overall range while maintaining (rather than improving obviously) the neater ratio gaps. You've still got the 10-42 option if cadence management rather than ultimate range is more important to you.

2x (28/38 for example) with 11-40 is a 492% range
10-42 is 420% range, so a significantly smaller range, but with lumpier ratio jumps. An 11-42 cassette (with 28/38) would increase ratio jumps from the 24T sprocket upwards, but also increase range to 518%.
Either way gives you better range and closer available ratios than 1x with 10-42, and better chainlink through the range.

The fact that the synchro shift option allows you to ride it essentially as a 1x set up, means that to me, there is a point.

Also - the synchro shift is flexible - you chose the shift mapping (as well as shift speed, button function etc etc).

Di2 on my commuter for (Alfine)

Does Alfine Di2 use eTube? Can it be used with drop bar or fireboat shifters?

Yes Alfine uses the etube software, set mine the other day to do multiple shifts on prolonged holding off the shift levers. Been very impressed with the alfine di2. One bonus is you can use ultegra 11 with an xtr rear mech so great for cyclocross, so now a cheaper rear mech to use.

ratherbeintobago - Member
Does Alfine Di2 use eTube? Can it be used with drop bar or fireboat shifters?

It does. Mines a right hodgepodge (of the highest caliber) consisting of R785 road shifters, XTR M9020 callipers, and a 36h Alfine 11 hub.

DI2 is the ONLY was to run Alfine 11 IMO.

So an Alfine rear hub like [url= https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/shimano-alfine-di2-sg-s705-gear-hub/aid:581819?channable=e8467.NTgxODE5&gclid=CJrVztbTkcwCFbYV0wodl40HeA ]this 11 speed one[/url], a Di2 shifter, junction box, battery, job done? That'd be quite nice.

You also need the motor unit for the hub and I also use a display for pimp and quick charging.

Can the new 11-46 cassette be used with existing xt 1x11 2016? I'm assuming the chain and teeth profile on the chainset remains the same so shouldn't be an issue..?

When's the cassette meant to be available?

Thisisnotaspoon - 11-42 gaps are smaller as a percentage increase/decrease, and also more even than 10-42. The addition of 2x option with that range increases overall range while maintaining (rather than improving obviously) the neater ratio gaps. You've still got the 10-42 option if cadence management rather than ultimate range is more important to you.

2x (28/38 for example) with 11-40 is a 492% range
10-42 is 420% range, so a significantly smaller range, but with lumpier ratio jumps. An 11-42 cassette (with 28/38) would increase ratio jumps from the 24T sprocket upwards, but also increase range to 518%.
Either way gives you better range and closer available ratios than 1x with 10-42, and better chainlink through the range.

My point was that a 22-42 bottom gear is pointless, there's barely enough momentum to balance in 22-32. Hence my point that shimano probably didn't state that you could go 2x with 11-42 because they assumed no one would ever want to. If you're going to set it up to auto/syncro shift the front mech then surely you'd stick with an 11-34 (or thereabouts) cassette and the biggest shiftable jump at the front (22-36 or so, same 14t difference as road bikes?). Giving a practical set of gears and small jumps.

11-34 and 22-36 gives 511%, almost the same range as your biggest example, with much closer gears.

In your example the lowest gear was 28-42, which is just a very heavy version of 22-34.

I'd agree 22x42 is a pointless ratio, but 22T isn't an option. It's 24/34, 26/36, 28/38.

Cassette options are 11-40, 11-42 or the 1x 11-46.

It uses the same cassettes and chainsets as mechanical XT (just as with all their other Di2 groups), and so it has a range increase in the cassette, and a range reduction at the front - gives a similar range as 11-34 22-36 as you say, but in mechanical guise it means that a front shift is closer to a rear shift in terms of ratio gain/loss, so a front shift doesn't require a recovery shift at the rear to achieve the ratio change you want, as you tend to find in typical 2x set ups due to the large difference in chainring tooth counts.
In Di2 guise, it makes less difference, as you'd let synchro take control. Either way it's better in real world use.

Cassette gaps on 11-34 10 spd and 11-40/42 11 spd are surprisingly close - first 7 sprockets are the same size.

My preference is 11-40 on a double, and 11-42 is fine for my riding on a single, but nice to have further options!

I think at the ripe old age of 28, I might be turning into a total neck-bearded retrogrouch...

Do we really want to pollute the beautiful mechanical purity of the bicycle with batteries and led displays and wifi?

Philosophically, I don't feel ok with Di2. I know I don't have to buy it, and I won't. But I worry that in 10, 15 years or whatever there won't be any good quality normal mechanical gear systems. For what it's worth, I ride a full sus 1x10 "enduro" bike, so it's not like I'm a single speed whiskey swilling sandal wearer. But still. Sorry for my grouchitude!

In 10 - 15 years time you'll be reminiscing about how you were wrong about Di2 and how Di4 is completely unnecessary 🙂

i am new to di2 on the road bike , only had it 2 weeks , but it is great .

would definetly consider it for the mtb if i was going back to a double at the front .