[Closed] Di2 obsolete?!

It's been here since the tour of California, around spring last year. Do keep up.

Lol, first sentence of your link....

The SRAM levers and gears were first spotted during the 2013/14 cyclo-cross season in the USA and then at the Tour of California last May,

That'll get the more more cash than dash weekend warriors wet.

not a chance for me! If I had Di2 I's be wary of it going flat while out on a ride, but wireless is going to have 4 individual batteries so 4x the likelihood of going flat!!

4 individual batteries - I was just thinking that, multiple batteries to keep charged just so you can use your bike?! **** that

not a chance for me! If I had Di2 I's be wary of it going flat while out on a ride, but wireless is going to have 4 individual batteries so 4x the likelihood of going flat!!

If you runout of batteries on a ride, you deserve it, charging intervals are 1000-1500 miles, and you can check the battery level as and when. A full charge takes 2 hours.

Guessing you never use a light?

Next?

Never had a battery issue whatsoever in the year I have used Di2. Non users in unfounded panic alert.

Phew, I'm relaxed again in that case...

I have absolutely no interest in having little transmitters and receivers all over my bike. It's just going to make every part extremely expensive and troublesome.

Could power it from a jockey wheel, or a magnet in the chainring? Probably possible, but probably heavier than a wire from the main battery.

In the context of SRAM not currenlty having an electronic groupset, wireless looks like more of a USP to tempt people away from Shimano who need a reason to move away from a groupset already in it's 3rd implementation with the bugs ironed out.

It'll probably work flawlessly, and battery life will probably be long enough to be irelavent (think how long a cadence sensor lasts on 1 CR 2032, and that's transmiting constantly), so the only limitation is how big a battery you can fit in the actuator, and mechs are mostly empty space or unconstrained, so probably quite a big one.

I look forward to someone hacking the wireless tech and making a large sprint finish in the Tour de France even more interesting!

Sram jockey wheels? Not sure I would want to make them any more expensive...

Wireless 1x11 + wireless dropper should make for a very tidy looking bike.

tbh i really dont see the point of wireless. the brakes are always going to have cables/hoses attached, and the mechs are always going to be in a fixed position on the bike. The only advantage I can think of is moving the shifter buttons to gloves, so its irrelevant where the rider has their hands, but shimano deal with that by having sprint and climb shifters, and not all pro riders wear cloves.

Any other advantages? Easier to set up maybe?

I apologies for not wanting batteries on my bike for shifting

Wireless 1x11 + wireless dropper should make for a very tidy looking bike.

So would stealth dropper routing and internal cables/wires.

Get your sram jammer here.
http://www.jammer-store.com/wifi-bluetooth-jammers-blockers.html

FSA reportedly have Di2 compatible mechs close to production too. TBH I'd trust FSA who don't have a reputation for making even mechanical mechs as much as a I'd trust a first gen SRAM product 😆

Pneumatic tyres? At both ends? So I have to check, and possibly reinflate, not one but two tyres at the start of every ride? And risk them going flat during a ride as well? Bollocks to that, I'm sticking with my tried and true solid wheels!

😉

Pneumatic tyres? At both ends? So I have to check, and possibly reinflate, not one but two tyres at the start of every ride? And risk them going flat during a ride as well? Bollocks to that, I'm sticking with my tried and true solid wheels!

I mean this is a pointless argument. It may well be that he technology never reaches my price point.

But the benefits of pneumatic tyres over solid mean that they are universal for all road and off road travel, the only real exceptions being toys, prams and rails. Electronic shifting may be better than cables but its just not possible that the benefits can be as great as the change to pneumatic tyres

SS FTW lol etc.

Well, I'm excited, been predicting this for a while. In fact never saw why they released a wired version in the first place...energy harvesting ideas are interesting too.

I want it for the mtb!

That'll get the more more cash than dash weekend warriors wet.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz…….

But the benefits of pneumatic tyres over solid mean that they are universal for all road and off road travel, the only real exceptions being toys, prams and rails. Electronic shifting may be better than cables but its just not possible that the benefits can be as great as the change to pneumatic tyres

Shirley thats just down to when the bicycle was invented, and the technology that was available at the time though? I'm sure if it had been invented yesterday it wouldnt have the development path it has had.

Tom I'm really confused

Bikes were invented then John Boyd Dunlop made them better by adding pneumatic tyres

Built by sram, hardly a benchmark for quality! it will work for the 50ms you get it out of the shop then you'll have to replace it all 😐

Bikes were invented then John Boyd Dunlop made them better by adding pneumatic tyres

Then Tulio Campagnolo made them even better by adding a dérailleur and gears. Then Shimano San made them even betterer by adding electricity to those gears.

What I'm saying is, those inventions were the cutting edge of technology at the time. So if a bike was invented today it might have different tech to start with, such as electric gears.

I can feel a massive recall coming on. I'd rather go back to down tube friction shifters than trust sram to get that right. It'll last about 30 minutes and cost more than a trip to outer space.

OK Tom i now understand

Time will tell. I'm sure i was rude about suspension once i'm sure. But i still think its likely to be a minor change compared to the big ones you mention

Before suspension I did curse having to stop due to the pain. Before V-brakes I did find it hard to stop. Gear changing for me is at best mildly annoying, bearing in mind the bike I road today was using 15 year old Alivio shifters I have a few options left before I'll need to try batteries

I notice that electronic suspension control doesn't seem to have stuck

It's no surprise the release of electric gears coincided with the popularity of cycling going through the roof.

It's the sort of technology that middle aged IT managers love; thats why it was released; to persuade them into cycling.

While it might be a gimmick if it works and is proven durable and reliable (although this is a SRAM product) I'd imagine bike companies would be all over it, "Clean" looking road bikes sell, hence most plastic bikes are riddled with with holes and internal routing to manage cable (or Di2 wires).

But a wireless drivetrain is "Have your cake and eat it" territory for the likes of Giant/Trek/Specialized, meaning they can push those clean frame lines and the frames are cheaper to produce without all the internal routing, plus they can probably charge a premium for them as they're "Wireless ready" at least to begin with...

What's not to like?

Built by sram, hardly a benchmark for quality! it will work for the 50ms you get it out of the shop then you'll have to replace it all

11,000km on my SRAM Red group set, untouched since i fitted it, same cables, same chain, cassette switched out some 8,000km ago, used in utterly filthy conditions in summer and winter, shifts like the day it was fitted

11,000km on my SRAM Red group set, untouched since i fitted it, same cables, same chain, cassette switched out some 8,000km ago, used in utterly filthy conditions in summer and winter, shifts like the day it was fitted

I like to hear the positives. Hardly sugest we need a new technology

Di2, bring it on. having had a little go its lovely, point less but lovely.

Batteries- as we have Di2 specific frames already, will we top up solar panels - mini dino's (not small Trex's) - intergrated with smart phones,

4 individual batteries - I was just thinking that, multiple batteries to keep charged just so you can use your bike?

I don't have Di2 - in fact am going with 9000 DA to upgrade my Ultegra, but think that the wired solution from Shimano is the answer for electronic shifting. Fit and forget. Most modern frames have internal Di2 routing so the look is already very clean.

Electric gearing yep, modern drivechains shift fantastically well but then you stick an old fangled wire in a tube to connect them, susceptible to mud dodgy routing, wear and they make a mess of your frame. Leccy shifting I'm in - when the prices come [i]right[/i] down. But wireless? Why? extra faff/expense for what reason? clean lines? pff. I'm open to suggestion but so far nothing is selling wifi shifting to me.

same chain, cassette switched out some 8,000km ago

I think adding a degree of electronic warfare to Le Tour is exactly the sort of thing to allow the nerds to feel like they have a purpose to play in the Barely Human endurance test of monsters.

And I think there's a good chance of someone jamming it, especially at a finish line.

And I think there's a good chance of someone jamming it, especially at a finish line.

As that's the second thing that everyone trots out (after "it'll go flat"), you'd like to think SRAM have done something about it, rather than simply crossing their fingers and hoping...

Dave Brailsford will be sat controlling all his riders gearing and cadence. Perhaps.

I like to hear the positives. Hardly sugest we need a new technology

i have a 9070 dura-ace di2 group set ready to fit, not going to fit it in winter though, i like new tech

did you change the cassette coz you wanted different ratios or because it was worn , if the latter am I the only one who thinks this sounds a bit iffy?

changed the ratio

There nothing SRAM can do about jamming, assuming the person doing the jamming knows what they are doing. Mis-shifts, harder but also possible.

If you doubt, I suggest you take a look around at any tech news site regarding hacking achievements.

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbrFOGAOURO0o5EfRf9cRGjjDofApfr4Hdux_GCLFT3vCeXuPX_w [/img]

Give it few more years and they'll start selling Mind Controlled Groupset. No shifters and levers required!

Electronic shifting of any kind is completely unnecessary and would offer me no advantages at all while just being something to go wrong.

Other things that fell in to the same category for me were indexed gears and disk brakes. And of course I was right about them. 🙂

Another thought just got to me: isn't stuff like electronic shifting kind of against the whole concept of bicycle? I mean it should be powered with muscles, shouldn't it? All the mechanical concepts work around this principal, even if they are getting easier to operate (like hydraulic disc brakes).

And the electronic stuff removes that "human powered" thing a bit: You click on the shifter just to let the computer know what to do? Nah...

Electronic shifting of any kind is completely unnecessary and would offer me no advantages at all while just being something to go wrong.

I think the key thing is I've been on ride where people have snapped cables, or shifters have died (including mine twice, an MTB shifter pawl snapped so wouldnt ratchet the index wheel doodaa bit inside and my DA 7800 has inreperably jammed). Never been on a ride where someoens Di2 has failed (although theres less DI2 about). I reckon a switch would outlive both of my failed shifters, and potentialy be a cheap fix, is there any need for brake+shifters anymore, just add touch sensitive pads to the groupset and people could put triggers wherever they liked, within a generation I reckon we'll no longer bother with 'clicky' shifters for electronic shifting.

Another thought just got to me: isn't stuff like electronic shifting kind of against the whole concept of bicycle? I mean it should be powered with muscles, shouldn't it? All the mechanical concepts work around this principal, even if they are getting easier to operate (like hydraulic disc brakes).
And the electronic stuff removes that "human powered" thing a bit: You click on the shifter just to let the computer know what to do? Nah...

That's why all lights are dyno powered, along with garmins etc

within a generation I reckon we'll no longer bother with 'clicky' shifters for electronic shifting

Yes, I think Shimano (as they tend to do) played things safe with Di2 and mimicked the ergonomics of mechanical shifting (arguably they're worse as they're less tactile). Considering they could have done anything they wanted with shifting buttons!

That's why all lights are dyno powered, along with garmins etc

There nothing SRAM can do about jamming, assuming the person doing the jamming knows what they are doing. Mis-shifts, harder but also possible.

It is all irrelevant as there is only one ProTour team riding SRAM this year 😆

FSA on the other hand may need to give this some thought and Tiso also have a wireless 12 speed group....

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/01/20/sram-wireless-shifting-caught-on-video-more-details-emerge/

Thing is though, there are only so many practical places to put shifter buttons/switches, and all of them are on the bars, which provide a handy mounting point, so there's really no need to take the tech any further. I get the 'clean lines' argument, but it doesn't hold water as you're always going to have brake cables/hoses in the same area anyway.

I reckon a switch would outlive both of my failed shifters,

and potentialy be a cheap fix

In terms of having it on my bikes, I like advancement in bike design but I don't like electronics, you can't fix them when they go wrong, and they are expensive. Gear cables work fine, so I'll pass.

I can only see this like mobile phones, its the march of progress and its coming if we like it or not. I suspect most will like it and most will end using it as it filters down over the years to cheaper bikes. It will become standard.

I mean it should be powered with muscles, shouldn't it?

you can't fix them when they go wrong,

ever tried fixing a modern cable gear shifter?

electronics opens up the possibility of multiple shifter locations, di2 easily does regular, sprint and climbing shifter all on the same set of bars,

you can't fix them when they go wrong,

ever tried fixing a modern cable gear shifter?

No, I've never had a broken one.

Another thought just got to me: isn't stuff like electronic shifting kind of against the whole concept of bicycle? I mean it should be powered with muscles, shouldn't it?

Last year's Trans-Am winner used Di2 for a 4000+ mile self-supported race - when you're on the bike long enough to lose dexterity or just be so plain tired that any effort saved is a benefit, leccy gears have advantages. If Di2 / wireless set ups had a tiny dynamo hub option or a plug in for existing dyanamos (maybe they do already?) I'd be more into it, no real reason apart from the idea of a self-contained system having appeal.

Would like to try Di2, no particular interest in wireless though - especially Sram!

I imagine in future frames will come hardwired for electronic shifting, with conductive filaments installed during the construction process.

I imagine in future frames will come hardwired for electronic shifting, with conductive filaments installed during the construction process.

There was a lovely custom bike around last year that had inlaid conductors under the paint laquer.

There you go, the future is already here.

I would guess that wireless is for the manufacturer's benefit more than the rider; wireless chips cost nothing these days, and probably mean that the unit can be better sealed against water and muck, don't need a strong cable entry point or socket, can be smaller and would make the system a whole lot quicker for OEMs to install if they don't have to spend time stringing wires around.

I see no reason why not, really...

I want special paint that conducts signals and shimmers and twinkles during night rides when i shift *

Assuming you're not one of those weirdy beardy SSers you're already a cycling purist heretic.

* I ride a SS in winter so I just realised the flaw in my plan.

Internet ate my post so heres a summary.

hmm, never broken a shimano shifter - tho I have seen the odd 1, with the odd exception the current ones last a looooong time getting the leccy ones to last even longer will be a feat.

Well I've broken 2 as I said, excluding those I've broken in crashes or ripped cables out of (and with small buttons and cables that just pop back in arguably I should include those in my argument too as they'd be amost imune to that sort of damage). Both failed in the mechanical guts, not the lever so I suspect an electrical contact would probably have carried on working for much much longer.

hahahahahahaha, you're funny. I expect them to be just as irreparable as current STIs and more expensive. but like I said I'll be interested when they cost less.

6870 levers are £160 online, 6800 levers are £180, so they're already cheaper, and thats before you consider the ability to keep a bike running by just plugging in the much cheaper sprint/climbing shifter if the switch in the main body fails.

But lets not let facts and anecdotes get in the way of suposittion and ignorance on the internet, ehh?

I suspect an electrical contact would probably have carried on working for much much longer

But lets not let facts and anecdotes get in the way of suposittion and ignorance on the internet, ehh?

😉

Not bikes, but by far the most common failure in industires I have worked in are electrical. FWIW I like DI2 but don't see any need for wireless. If you need to connect component A to component B the most reliable option is always a fixed hard wire if it is possible.

I've also broken a Dura Ace 7800 STI - cable died, dropped bits of cable into the mechanism, it all jammed irrepairably some months later.

I agree that Di2 ones will be more reliable than cable ones, which are far from indestructible.

Have any of the Di2 naysayers used it? I suspect it's one of those things where the scale of the benefits only become apparent on use. I haven't used it either, mind.

Wireless shifting will certainly make bikes easier to build.