After any ideas for the boy for some extra coaching please.
WE usually use Katy Curd, but at the moment she's a little snowed under and struggling for time. So we're considering adding in some additional coaching.
It really wants to be DH Racing specific coaching rather than generic coaching, 1:1 is fine and would suit more than a group session.
I guess part of the question is, should we just stick with the 1 coach rather than using multiples, there may be a conflict of teaching/techniques... Or would more and more information/teaching be a benefit ?
The lad is quick, but he's not insanely quick and the kids at the pointy end are insanely quick.
I think personally he's finding it harder in terms of new courses this year rather than just going fast, most of the races we're heading to it's our first time ever at the locations, a lot are on private land so can't be pre-ridden. We have missed a few 'open days' which would have been useful for sure, but we can't resolve that. But coaching in terms of how to learn tracks quicker would potentially be as much use to him as it would for technique i think.
We've done some Wye MTB coaching which was OK, but only OK, we've also done BPW DH coaching, which was... Mmmmmm a bit meh.
Becci Skelton & Matt Simmonds are both coaching at Dyfi now, that would be worth a day I reckon.
Nothing useful to offer but it sounds almost like you want a "how to walk a course, spot lines, practice and be fast on it inside of a day" type coaching, rather than techniques and skills type stuff?
Aside from watching endless Ben Cathro content does anyone really offer that kind of 'coaching'?
thanks man, emailed them to get their thoughts and options.
Nothing useful to offer but it sounds almost like you want a “how to walk a course, spot lines, practice and be fast on it inside of a day” type coaching, rather than techniques and skills type stuff?
It would certainly be useful yeah, him and KAty have been working on reading trails in their last sessions and i think it helps him to see different tracks in different ways. But it would be part of the ideal session to be able to do that.
Not being a coach and not being fast i can't really offer much in terms of what we should be working on, it's kinda down to them to decide that.
We'll certainly be using Katy again once she can squeeze us in as he really bonds well with her, but opening up other ideas and options can only help i think... (hopefully)
I've heard good things about Ian of firecrest coaching, may be worth a chat to.
Just send him to Whistler for a month. I promise it will have a completely transformative effect on his riding. Everything in the UK will feel disappointingly easy after a few thousand laps of the bikepark.
Make sure you send him before he's old enough to drink or he might go off in another direction.
Do you ever track walk with him and session smaller sections of trails? It can feel like a waste of time when you just want to ride but it's amazing what you see if you stop and look for a minute. I don't race so I don't routinely do it but I did try it once at Aston Hill and it made me significantly quicker on a trail that I'd ridden numerous times before.
Nothing useful to offer but it sounds almost like you want a “how to walk a course, spot lines, practice and be fast on it inside of a day” type coaching, rather than techniques and skills type stuff?
I'm an endurance racer not a DH racer so it might be a bit different.
What we tend to do is our practice laps (your course walks?) in a group. The trick is to latch on to some more experienced riders and join their group, watch their lines. If a difficult bit needs sessioning to get your head around it ask for advice, ask questions. Everyone is always really friendly and happy to help newbies/juniors wherever they can.
Over the years I've gone from the one looking for advice to the one giving it (usually, there are still things I can learn) and it works fine from either side.
How self-confident/sociable is he? Can he just show up at a techy section and talk to whoever is there? It can be a bit daunting approaching a world champ for example to say how are you getting over that bit but IME they are always really friendly and happy to talk (Brett Belchambers, Jason English for example. I have no idea how chatty Aaron Gwin is)
Olly Morris @ Pro Ride is decent. He does a lot of work with the MS Mondraker team & is based near FoD.
He’s an elite DH racer himself.
Edited to add: there is as much to learn as watching other riders on track as there is riding it. But, line choice isn’t going to be an ‘ah ha’ moment. The point end reality is, they are absolutely pinned everywhere at a decent series like a Pearce.
It does sound like you need to look at finding a prefomance coach that will get to know you and the lad maybe even to give you training plans and feedback between in sessions so the next time you meet you have honed what you have covered previously or have prepared for what will come.
As you have found the problem with keep going to different people is you have to start again every time with them finding what to focus on.
Riding skills are like a toolkit, the more variety of tools you have the more flexible you can be with a knowledge of how to tackle different problems. There is always something to learn from different coaches and riding styles but maybe not always find that the coaches styles or abilities fit your needs so being able to say to the them it's not working is important part of the feedback loop.
Ask your self and the lad some questions to help find a potential coach and what you want. Don't answer here.
What are you and your lads goals? separate dream, realistic and achievable and diagram route to achieve them as a pathway.
How much can you budget financially annually for a good coach?
How much time can you dedicated to training?
Can you keep on top of documenting your training sessions for feedback, review and benchmarking?
Do you ever track walk with him and session smaller sections of trails? It can feel like a waste of time when you just want to ride but it’s amazing what you see if you stop and look for a minute. I don’t race so I don’t routinely do it but I did try it once at Aston Hill and it made me significantly quicker on a trail that I’d ridden numerous times before.
Often yes... Although less when we're on an 'away day' doing an uplift day as that's more of a day out. But even at race weekends we spend time walking, watching, reading, learning... or trying to 🙂
Line choice is something that comes from experience.
You can only teach the very basics of it.
There's often no ultimate line just what works best for the individual.
Best thing he can do is go ride as many steep off piste trails in as many different places as possible and start to build up his confidence to what's best for him.
If he's used of riding stuff that's harder than stuff he's racing on it'll help massively.
As an example watching some of the pro's at EWS they seem to be able to ride the majority of stuff on sight on their one practice run at pretty near their race speed.
That only comes from experience and total confidence in what the bike is going to do in any situation.
I say this as someone who got to race and European and world level in another very similar sport.
Someone can teach you the very basics but ultimately it boils down to experience and natural talent at the pointy end.
As above, Matt Simmonds would be my choice if I needed to replace Katy. I have the same issue as the boy as I get on well with Katy's relaxed style so going somewhere else feels like it could be money wasted. I had some email exchanges with Matt a cpl of years ago as I was going to attend a coaching week in Spain that he was involved in. Seemed a good guy in all the comms but unfortunately Covid buggered up the week so didn't happen.
Francie Arthur is another that comes recommended and she uses a great venue in Milland which is private and only used for events.
What are you and your lads goals? separate dream, realistic and achievable and diagram route to achieve them as a pathway.
How much can you budget financially annually for a good coach?
How much time can you dedicated to training?
Can you keep on top of documenting your training sessions for feedback, review and benchmarking?
To answer these...
Goals... Top 5s in Nationals at jnr level is our first goals. Realistic... heck i dunno... Maybe... maybe not... we'd like to think so. In his ideal world we'll attempt to qualify for a Jnr WCDH, one of his schoolmates tried (never quite made it, 4 places off the main show) at Fort William this year, my lad looks up to that as a target. Currently we're a decent way off that position i think, but his results don't really show where i 'think' we are as he's often had crashes etc on the big weekends which have skewed his position/results. Last race at Pearce he had a massive crash in the morning, 10 mins of medical attention and 20 mins in the med tent, but got out and raced in the afternoon, but was a bit delicate and didn't want to push/risk, but how much higher he'd have finished if he was uninjured, i have no idea honestly. The next 3-4 months will hopefully give us more indication of where we can realistically get currently, which of course will influence where we get to eventually.
Budget... whatever is needed for coaching would be OK for the next few years... I don't mean that to sound as pretentious as it may... but honestly, there's no budget. IT's more the below factor of 'time' rather than the funding. If we coach/train at say FoD then it's a morning/afternoon away, if we do Dyfi/Revs/far away, it changes the dynamics of time, distance, nights away. Whilst that's OK financially, it's a strain on the world in family context.
Time... That's trickier as he's at school of course and with racing many weekends that makes time a little harder. Mrs Weeksy has accepted the fact that most weekends next year we'll be 'away' for at least 1 of the days pretty much every weekend. But we are conscious that there's a limit to how much time spent on something before it becomes a chore and a bore... We're a LONG way from that at the moment as he loves riding the bike... But i'm very aware not to lose that feeling, both for me and for him.
We don't really do the documentation thing or write things down, him and Katy work on stuff then he goes away and puts it into practice.. .but it's a very good point and something we'll implement.
Best thing he can do is go ride as many steep off piste trails in as many different places as possible and start to build up his confidence to what’s best for him.
If he’s used of riding stuff that’s harder than stuff he’s racing on it’ll help massively.
As an example watching some of the pro’s at EWS they seem to be able to ride the majority of stuff on sight on their one practice run at pretty near their race speed.
That only comes from experience and total confidence in what the bike is going to do in any situation.
The problem with that is that he's 14 tomorrow... The pros can all drive themselves to places, don't have day jobs and can allocate time easier. Possibly due to location of where they live too.
For example, for us to get to 'anywhere' more tech than FoD is 90 mins... which means getting home from school, getting there for 5.30pm and riding... So we'd only realsitically get 2 hours... Plus that's only in summer time. In winter when it's getting darker earlier, well, there's just not the time to get there bfore it's dark.
Once you factor in a fair few race weekends, then once again that removes the opportunity to ride 'other' stuff.
The final factor of course is 'me'.... .if i take him somewhere i need to have a plan/track too. I can't really at 14 just say to him, hit that, good luck, see you whenever... I've got to get to the top and bottom with him too of course, even if not the same trail he does, there's got to be a way up and down for both.
How far off the "top 5" is he currently, fractions or more than a good handful? Does he seem to possess the pure speed to make it and is only being let down, so to speak, by line choice etc.?
Are the goals realistic without endless riding time, these top kids put in serious hours all week long, often at the determent of other things in life, like not bothering with 6th form college to concentrate on training and "making it" which more often than not backfires.
Is you current residential situation hampering progress, are you willing to move to a more suitable riding area to aid his progression, is it worth it?
There's juniors I know well in XC, that no matter what they do training wise, who coaches them, who advises on nutrition & diet etc. etc. will never hit top 5 in the UK, let alone on a European or World level, and these are kids who can smash the majority of adults out there into oblivion. Realistic goals need to be set in order to progress, its all well and good reaching for the stars, but if they're out of reach trying to get there becomes no fun whatsoever.
Sorry to be so blunt, but it's not far off the realistic life sacrifice of someone who wants to be hitting top 5 nationally and qualifying for WC events.
Are the goals realistic without endless riding time, these top kids put in serious hours all week long, often at the determent of other things in life, like not bothering with 6th form college to concentrate on training and “making it” which more often than not backfires.
Is you current residential situation hampering progress, are you willing to move to a more suitable riding area to aid his progression, is it worth it?
Both situations we've discussed and thought about... but in honesty... i don't know at this stage.
But that's a whole other kettle of discussions in many ways and a bit deep for a Friday morning 😀
Blunt is fine mate... crack on... honesty is a perfectly acceptable thing when it's meant in the right way.
The pros can all drive themselves to places, don’t have day jobs and can allocate time easier.
They weren't always pros and probably used to be kids too. 😉
The final factor of course is ‘me’
Only you can make the call on helping him or not taking him somewhere because you can't ride the same stuff.
On a more longterm note have you looked at the BASE course for when he's 16?
They seem to have churned out some pretty good results and when we see them out round here there's some proper rippers.
On a more longterm note have you looked at the BASE course for when he’s 16?
They seem to have churned out some pretty good results and when we see them out round here there’s some proper rippers.
Yup. That'll depend on university etc. But we've looked at it
sounds like you need to move house...
Stu has a good point with train hard, fight easy. If you can work out for your selves what is difficult, do some focus on that.
Help your self sound like something to look at and may help with what your looking for in coaching. Maybe even reading up on prefomance coaching for yourself and you'll then work out where to focus asking for specific coaching.
Read things up on things like Chimp Paradox book.
Working out the route cause of crashing at big events? trying too hard/trying to be too quick everwhere, then focus on track walk work, on track where he can make time safely and where its worth taking risks. Plan the approach of the challenging sections of tracks, how he will hit that section and not worry about it the whole track before it. A bit like when people showing round you trail may say look out for the x feature, all you then think about is looking for that and not focusing on what your doing.
Stress of the event - preparation and procedures will help. Use some smaller races a practice without about having to achieving rece results but focus on the way your working your race days and have goals for that event.
Don't know how helpful British cycling are now with connecting riders with coaches, might be worth an ask? Are there any clubs you could join for subsidised coaching?
Just a thought but do you have a skatepark nearby ? I started riding a bmx at an indoor skatepark about 18 months ago , at first just to ride with my sons but I’ve got quite into it and now on rainy days off work I just head there for a couple of hours.
Riding bowls and finding flow and pumping and carving all feel a bit more obvious on the small bike and I have definitely felt an improvement in my mountain biking ( mainly enduro style trails around Scotland)
It’s all time on the bike and if there’s somewhere near you that’s suitable a lot less time consuming and perfect for winter evenings . Its also a lot harder physically than you might think , I’m a sweaty mess after a couple of hours.
Don't over race. With downhill events you accumulate a huge amount stress over a weekend with travel, being away from home and general pressure of performing. Your son may well progress better over a day or weekend at a bike park with lots of runs and sessioning sections than a downhill event where access to the track is constrained at he may not actually do that much riding.
Try different events, a local Enduro or even XC race may be better for developing overall skills and performance than travelling long distances for a DH event.
A lot of the pro downhill riders spend time on pump tracks on dirt or BMX bikes. Great way to really dial in the timing required on jumps and pumping.
British Cycling have a development program, friend's son goes to their training days.
I always like to throw my 2p in on these debates.
I’ve heard good things about proride coaching and they’re in you’re preferred sort of area so would look at them.
On the steep off piste there is loads of stuff probably within a similar time to FOD from you. Surely Cwmcarn / Risca / Willie isn’t really any time further - it’s M4 pretty much all the way. FOD has plenty of tech but I’d say it’s often big tech features on an otherwise shorter / less steep track. Risca and Wylie have longer more sustained steepness as you have a bigger hill to start with.
Easy trails to find that are probably nice and janky are Conda and Deaf and Dumb. If you find those aren’t steep enough then Network R (also near Risca) is a step up - but probably beyond my level of bottle right now.
Wylie I’ve not done yet but it’s on my list once my back pain calms down.
Edit - on the pump track / jumping suggestions above it sounds like your lad is pretty comfortable on jumps in the main - it’s the riding fast on steep rooty stuff and perhaps jumps with less of a nice run in that area the bits for the main improvement.
Edit edit - is it worth speaking to Jedi at UK Bike Skills too? Not sure what terrain they have there but he might have some ideas and if budget isn’t an issue then it could be worth a look.
Some less obvious suggestions, sticking with the stated aims of KC being the "main coach" and DH racing being the main goal.
Have you considered Enduro training and racing? this might suit the riding on-sight or with limited practise issues.
The second is one to be wary of not taking too far, given his young age and growing body... but consider gym and/or turbo trainer work. I think you've said before that his only excersise is riding.
There are many, many seconds to be had by being fitter or stronger. Assuming he is at the point where he is hitting every feature on track, being able to sprint the finish through the field will save you more than shaving 0.5s off one tricky corner.
I was going to say the same as above - what gains are there to be had with fitness? "Easy" (less logistically challenging) to acheive with limited time. Plus strength and conditioning means you shrug off crashes better.
Absolutely agree.
The other thing the sticks out for me is simply lack of experience. Lots of FOD and 417 races that won’t really be of any use. More races (not National series if at all possible) on bigger tracks would be really useful
More races (not National series if at all possible) on bigger tracks would be really useful
Can only race what's available and most tracks are 'once a year', for example Berwyn, Caersws, Rheola, Rhyd-Y-Felin are all places we've raced this year that are once a year (some are twice as they do a national there too), along with the other Pearce we've got a Hopton and Bringewood that are coming up.
The only reason we book multiples are 417 and FoD is because they run a series there, it's not like we're skipping other races to focus on 417 because it's easier, we go because it's the only race on that weekend. The DH calendar isn't massively overflowing with dates and even some that are, they're really struggling to get numbers, for example Edge Cycles DH races had 4 in his Cat last race... even the Gravity last weekend only had 8... So we're doing all the races we can at the moment, but as i say, there's not a lot about in many ways.
We're doing our best to get as much experience as possible and as many different places that we can race we do our best to get to.
Probably not local, but Frazer McCubbing (based at Ae) is superb, currently spannering on Team Trek but got to be listed on such a thread:
Hopton and Bringewood
Both of these places are open to ride any time. There's nothing steep there either so you could also ride with him.
Along with a whole bunch of places that are very close to areas you already go to.
South Wales is littered with steep tech trails.
Why don't you take him to some of those? It's got to be better for him than another race at 417.
The only reason we book multiples are 417 and FoD is because they run a series there, it’s not like we’re skipping other races to focus on 417 because it’s easier, we go because it’s the only race on that weekend.
It’s got to be better for him than another race at 417
This is my thinking too. Practice and race the harder tracks, don’t bother racing the small ones. More to be gained from that, even if it means more pushing up days
When we can make it work I’m happy to show you round what I know at Risca. Need to explore Wylie as well - although that would obvs be hit and miss following my nose as not been there yet.
You’ve also got Barry Sidings / Smilog etc - albeit they’re a bit further away.
Both of these places are open to ride any time
That i wasn't aware of.
I have mentioned it before a few times...
Pearce also do uplift days at both locations. Or at least they used to.
Not really up to date on what they do since moving.
Pearce also do uplift days at both locations. Or at least they used to.
Not really up to date on what they do since moving.
Yeah but very very rare. There's none planned currently, but we'd happily go there when there is of course.
Pearce usually do uplifts on the hill before a race and the locals will know which trail is being used and do stop to look at stuff. Might be worth attending those. The talented kids are incredible, couple of years ago Matt Walker was just one of the local lads.
