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So there seems to be a multitude of fairly cheap but nice 200mm-ish DH frames around for not much money. It tingles my “That could be fun” gland with the idea of a bike with more travel than I need for bouncing round the local trails.
Accepting that pointing up hill it’ll be heavy even with (sensibly) lightweight components, and that it’ll be squishier and slacker than is preferable …. Is there any other reason not to try it?
I’m sure others have tried it - how was it for you? Are there any frame types naturally better suited than others?
Probably not the most sensible option but FWIW my "new" 200mm DH frame is lighter than the old "freeride" (North Shore 2x9) frame it replaced. Squish can be sorted either with an air shock or heavier spring.
No dropper compatability?
No dropper compatability?
AXS solves this. Or the old underseat lever ones, if not ideal.
No dropper compatability?
Zip ties attached to sticky back mounts.
AXS solves this. Or the old underseat lever ones, if not ideal.
If he could afford an AXS dropper I dare say he wouldn't be looking at a cheap DH frame for a trail bike.
Seat angles on DH bikes tend to be very unsuited to long droppers.
That said, there's a recent video on Vital of a guy trail riding a Pivot Phoenix and he's made it work. Probably not the cheap DH frame you have in mind though.
I tried it with a Cove G spot (170mm freeride bike so not even a full on DH frame)
Fitted lighter forks, lighter wheels & tyres - you could still feel extra the weight of the frame & it was usable on all but the steepest climbs on my local trails.
But after taking it to Cwmcarn, the climb was hopeless - the front would lift & push on/understeer on every corner on the ascent.
So I converted it back to 170mm coil both ends, big tyres on beefy wheels & big brakes - its now much better & I've enjoyed a few uplifted Alps trips with it.
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Zip ties attached to sticky back mounts.
You miss understand me.
Seat angles on DH bikes tend to be very unsuited to long droppers.
It's more this point plus some DH frames don't allow much insertion. (Oooo err misses)
I looked into this more from boredom than serious purchasing option.
Combined with a 38/zeb and AXS dropper.
Seat tube actual angle and length was the main driver. Reasonable anti squat for pedal ability.
Nukeproof dissent and Scott gambler looked promising.
On the seat angle, V10 and session terrible.
Looking to the future, the GT and maybe the pivot might be going for the same frame between their DH and superEnduro bikes going forward.
video on Vital of a guy trail riding a Pivot Phoenix
Beaten to it! I would have said the Phoenix is the only DH bike I've pedalled uphill and been surprised it wasn't horrific. Not cheap, but that was 5 years ago so who knows...
I had a few days on rented Santa Cruz v10's in 26" and 27.5" wheel size in morzine over the years.
They felt like they would be fine as trail bikes. As in I stuck the seat up as much as possible and pedaled from valley to valley with lift assistance.
I had a canyon torque 26" DH bike. It had the same frame as their free ride/ heavy duty trail bike. With an extra long seat post it was tolerable pedaling from valley to valley. The gearing was the limiting factor more than the weight.
No dropper compatability?
AXS solves this. Or the old underseat lever ones, if not ideal.
Drills solve this cheaply 🙂
Sticking a 170mm fork on a dh bike would increase the head and seat angles by 1.5 degrees and should give you a decent enough bb drop, spacers can go in some air shocks to reduce stroke while keeping the same eye to eye length, stiffer spring or extra bottom out dumper could work on a coil shock.
Some EWS bikes are approaching dh weights these days so probably weight isn't that much of a factor and theres plenty ways to get a dropper in there if it's a necessity.
I bet Orange sell an 'enduro' bike that isn't a million miles from an old 224.
Can't be bothered to look up the numbers.
Ah okay, never thought of angles. Insertion-wise my Tues is as bad as my Pitch, neither would do badly with a dropper (don't tell Nobeer!)
I don't know if RHS is still lurking around anywhere, but he guided us up some 2-3hr climbs above Verbier on his Orange 224 back in 2006 IIRC. I'd be tempted to do something with one of those frames for a laugh if one ever comes up locally at a good price.
Rob actually lent me that 224 for a day when my wheel exploded while I was out there with BV.
Apart from it being very badly maintained and having to change gear at the front by pulling the cable it actually rode pretty well as a trail bike.
I pedaled it to the top off toboggan and was surprised by how well it climbed for what it was.
This is probably the opposite of a nice cheap frame but might be worth a read:
A mate of mine used to ride a DH bike up big hills by using a quick release dog collar to squeeze the fork down in its travel to steepen up the angles for climbing. Then drop the seatpost and unclip the dog collar for the descents. Not sure it would work on newer frames as BB heights have got lower.
Stu, funnily I borrowed Phils Orange 22 whatever DH bike on toboggan and crashed on the first corner.
I pedalled my Specialized Bighit quite a bit, it was OK apart from the DH tyres.
Rear hub spacing might be a ballache?
The last DH bike I had was a Summum in 2013, it pedaled better than some trail bikes I've had TBH.
I bet Orange sell an ‘enduro’ bike that isn’t a million miles from an old 224.
Their longest travel non-DH bike is now 155mm rear (new Alpine), so I suspect they could have something else in the pipeline.
A new mullet Patriot with 180mm rear, hopefully.
using a quick release dog collar to squeeze the fork down in its travel to steepen up the angles for climbing.
I used to use a toeclip strap to pull a Fox Van36 down on fireroad climbs.
That was more about firming it up than changing head angle though
Used to call it ghettotalas.
crashed on the first corner.
Funnily enough I almost had a large moment about half way down where it hooked a sharp left to avoid a small cliff. Just wasn't used to that kind of speed on that trail. 😆
Rear hub spacing might be a ballache?
Get an old enough frame and it'll be 150mm, that's 2mm of spacing for a boost hub if you need a spare.
Was going to say 224, but I’m 5’9’ with a 15 frame and it’s tiny (reach) and heavy. Great fun though and about as pedalable for short distances as my 35lb 29er (it weighs more but the little wheels spin up nice and fast)
A proper DH frame will feel like an absolute boat, and with shorter forks will have a very low bb.
I loved my K9 DH bike. I hated even riding it up my driveway and even at FOD it felt like a bit of a pig!
I’m 5’11” and used a 17” Orange 224 as my only bike for years. This was before dropper posts but when Gravity Dropper came out I bought one of those for the 27.2 seatpost.
It’s was a little heavy, and a bit slack on climbs but you adapt soon enough.
I then had a Nicolai Helius ST as my only bike. Had 66’s & Totems on this but then fitted some 170mm 55 rc3ti and it was spot on. I also short shocked it and the static BB height was about 30cm, so mega slack & low - way ahead of its time. It was mint. I fitted a Truvativ HammerSchmidt AM chainset, which was actually quite good once it was bedded in.
I even used my full-on Commencal DH bike as a trail bike for a while but that was very dull hard work.
I had a Specialized Status with Boxxers and it was understandably great on steep stuff but even on flat or gentle downhill singletrack it was a pig. Took it to the Alps a few times and did the likes of the Pass’portes on it and had a good time but modern enduro bikes like my RocketMax are so much better even with less travel.
I can only imagine it’d be an experiment tinged with disappointment.