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Killed my XT today. What's the current thinking on best buy performance wise vs price? I think the cages are different material wise/strength potentially so that would be a consideration..
Just riding along failure and in many parts so not sure what happened..
A bit of tape and that will be as good a new…….
Performance wise there's no real difference. As you say. Just different materials. Bushing jockeys are actually more durable than bearing versions too.
I've run various Shimano mech's and eventually I changed the shifter to an XT. That made a bigger improvement than changing the mech to "better" one.
I’ve habitually run Xt in the past but seem to write off/bend mechs ever more often with 12s and now stuff doesn’t get discounted to the extent they used to I’ve been fitting Deore and functionally they’re indistinguishable. Given Deore are less than half the price (I’ve been buying them for £30ish) can afford to replace them sooner.
the one issue I’ve had is squeaking from the bushing jockey wheels. I’ve salvaged the bearing jockeys from the Xt and used them in one bike bit removing and adding waterproof grease to the bushing solved the issue on the other bike.
My experience of modern Shimano is that 12spd derailleurs are made of cheese! But if I had to pick one, I'd pick Deore as at least it's cheaper and it does seem very slightly more difficult to bend/break than SLX or XT, though still really soft and not at all suitable for hard use on an MTB compared to previous 11/10/9/8spd stuff and SRAM (GX level or above) at all...
I have a graveyard of 12 speed mechs, this one has lasted a few months at least but has been the most catastrophic failure ever.
I recall there was a mention of SLX cages being sawn through for a spell but hopefully that was user error..
The man in the shop did try sell me on mechanical T-type GX but it's quite a bit more to switch than a Deore mech, even if it does look nice.
Deore mech, XT shifter.
12sp stuff shifts amazingly well but it's about as durable as a wet paper towel.
Bearings vs bushes used to be a good reason to go XT but I find the teeth wear out far quicker than the bushes now.
XT mech has an externally accessible clutch tension screw. Kind of nice to have just in case. The cover can be swapped onto a deore though so not really worth the upgrade.
The XT is marginally lighter and has a slightly better finish. Not sure that matters when it's plastered in mud?
Rear mech vs a rock? Rock wins every time. It just hurts slightly less replacing a deore.
I wouldn't buy another XT 12sp.
Its not that they've made XT shit, it's that they've made deore pretty good.
The XT shifter is a nice thing to have. It's a heavier action though which I can understand some people don't like.
I'd probably go for slx. Deore are lumps, slx I think shares most of the main body, aside from the front plate with xt. Xt has different jockey wheels and an aluminium back cage plate, where slx is steel.
There's about 100g difference between xt and deore, about 30g slx Vs xt, if that's your thing..
However, if you habitually break them, maybe deore is the way to go, with a nice shifter.
I’d go with the cheapest one that comes in the shorter cage (gs?) option
I got an SLX M7100 for just under £50 a month back
I’d go with the cheapest one that comes in the shorter cage (gs?) option
I don't think the GS equivalent works with the 51t cassette, certainly not by design..
Deore/SLX shifters use more plastic so are slightly flexier in use which is why I presume they feel cheap to some but shifting precision is exactly the same click per click to an XT shifter. Deore/SLX shifters have a lighter feel on the paddle when down shifting (up to a larger sprocket) and don't become stiff like the XT shifter ratchet/bearing can over time. and because of this I genuinely prefer Deore/SLX shifters to XT
Nice smooth good quality cables routed well and cut/shrouded properly in decent unsealed ferrules makes a far bigger difference to shifting performance than the difference between running a Deore, SLX or XT shifter/mech.
I never had issues with 11-speed Shimano but i've had it with 12-speed - had several SLX, XT and one Deore implode or the clutch seize up. The clutch is not well sealed from the back compared to the 11-speed. Next time one dies I'm just going to pay the SRAM tax. Never had problems with their clutches.
I have a graveyard of 12 speed mechs, this one has lasted a few months at least but has been the most catastrophic failure ever.
I recall there was a mention of SLX cages being sawn through for a spell but hopefully that was user error..
The man in the shop did try sell me on mechanical T-type GX but it's quite a bit more to switch than a Deore mech, even if it does look nice.
I was averaging a destroyed Shimano rear derailleur every 4-5 rides for a while... It was getting bloody expensive, as well as ruining several rides!
As a long time SRAM mechanical fan, but with an avid hatred of the ergonomics of their electronic shifters, I was overjoyed to hear of the launch of Eagle 90 T-Type (GX level) so I ordered a groupset the very next day... I have done well over 500 miles (on an eBike too) on the groupset so far, and not a single issue, no missed shifts, it's been bumped off the scenery and shrugged it off, it's had sticks thrown into it and it hasn't complained... It is genuinely the best drivetrain product on the market right now by some margin IMO, and has saved me from the massive expense of committing to an MGU bike for at least the forseeable...
12sp stuff shifts amazingly well but it's about as durable as a wet paper towel.
I have been saying this for as long as anyone would listen, and mostly they just turn around and tell me "user error"... 🤣 But there we go... Actually riding these products and putting them through their paces vs just mincing round the trail centre car park does seem to be beyond a lot of the more vocal internet warriors these days...
It’s a shame LinkGlide isn’t compatible with other stuff because 11 speed XT LG works really well and is durable and gives a pretty wide range despite the smallest sprocket being an 11t.
Link glide is compatible with other stuff. Namely any 11 speed cassette and chain. As the entire linkglide range uses 11spd cassette sprocket spacing.
Conversely to some of the above comments.
I put 12sp SLX with XT shifters on my aggro HT and tank of an ebike after I got fed up of (11sp) SRAM GX mechs exploding without even noticeably hitting anything.
They've both been fine and stood up to some hard riding
Went full XTR on the new build but not put enough miles in to judge. Shifting is lovely though
I've been really disappointed with 12 sp SLX - going through a mech every 6 months, not catastrophic failure, would just get bent enough that would no longer index properly. Normal (not ebike) so quite light use as well.
Recently swapped to short cage XT which seems lots better - only had it in about 3 months but survived a week in the Alps (megavalanche) and running perfectly, with lovely snappy shifting. Would recommend, though you need a new cassette alongside the mech.
I'm a Shimano tragic but the upper end sram mechanical stuff does look good.
I recall there was a mention of SLX cages being sawn through for a spell but hopefully that was user error..
I had this. Chain would jam between mech plate and upper jockey wheel. Never experienced it with any other mechs so not sure on user error. However, i did read that play in the jockey wheels was causing the issue and, when my xt mech lost a fight against a twig, i put the xt jockey wheels on the slx mech (plus replaced the 'sawn' plate) and it's been fine since.
Having said that, i can't get good indexing out the slx mech at all... don't know what's wrong and I've tried most things (including checking hanger alignment). Maybe it's bent: how best to check that?
That's been my go to for 20+ years. 90% of the improvement/feature is in the shifter. The mech is just heavy/light/durable/not durable.I've run various Shimano mech's and eventually I changed the shifter to an XT. That made a bigger improvement than changing the mech to "better" one.
I had the same experience as @nuke with my last SLX 12spd mech, I know of a few other people that have had the same issue.
I replaced mine with a Deore, paired with an XT shifter it works really nicely.
Only had the Deore on for a couple of months so too early to report on longevity.
I run Deore mech (and chain, cassette, cranks...) but SLX or XT shifter. That makes a bigger difference in feel and performance I think.
Deore mech with XT shifter for me too, I agree with Bens that all mechs seem to die - so why not go cheap.
You probably couldn't even buy Sram Transmission jockey wheels for £21, eh?
https://www.bananaindustries.co.uk/products/shimano-deore-11-speed-rear-derailleur-rd-m5100sgs
(I'm sure you know this will work with 12sp)
Shifters- XT
everything else Deore or slx - cranks poss slx over deore , but generally what ever is the cheapest
I destroyed a few Deore 12-speed mechs on my Gravel bike when it was first built, one on the first use in the street, testing it out another in Ainsa, just heading out for a ride, which wasted a day getting it fixed. Whatever was causing it seemed to settle down, but I was never confident with them. So I switched back to 11 speed, aside from losing the 10t cog, which hasn't really been a problem, it feels more robust.
I recall there was a mention of SLX cages being sawn through for a spell but hopefully that was user error..
I had this. Chain would jam between mech plate and upper jockey wheel. Never experienced it with any other mechs so not sure on user error.
had this happen on K's XT mech. Couldn't work out what was going on for a while by which time the top jockey wheel was trashed. Bending the top of the plate back by hand made a difference, but then the mech got bent anyway and replaced.
https://www.bananaindustries.co.uk/products/shimano-deore-11-speed-rear-derailleur-rd-m5100sgs
(I'm sure you know this will work with 12sp)
So is this really identical to the 12S mech? Do all 11s mechs work fine on 12s? (I've got an old six in a box, was going to sell it).
Is there enough b tension for a wide range cassette? arent the jockey wheels different (I tried fitting the 'wrong' jockey wheels to some older kit and it just didn't work for reasons I couldn't work out)
It’s a shame LinkGlide isn’t compatible with other stuff because 11 speed XT LG works really well and is durable and gives a pretty wide range despite the smallest sprocket being an 11t.
Still tempting me when I next need to replace a cassette. What puts me off (on a 'lightweight' ebike) is the weight of the cassette and that I'd need to replace my free hubs as well (and with a heavy one as I assume best run with steel HG not ally).
I don't understand why they dont make a micro spline link glide cassette
So is this really identical to the 12S mech? Do all 11s mechs work fine on 12s? (I've got an old six in a box, was going to sell it).
Is there enough b tension for a wide range cassette?
Dunno if it's identical (someone probably will though), but I have used 12sp Deore mechs on 11sp with no problems and these specifically say they go up to 51t. And others have said they work fine.
10, 11 & 12spd shimano mechs are interchangeable
Just make sure you have a mech/cage with enough range for your largest sprocket.
I use these. works fine and cheap
https://www.bikeparts.co.uk/products/shimano-deore-deore-m6100-rear-derailleur-12-speed-shadow-43-sgs-long-cage?_pos=2&_psq=12+speed+deore&_ss=e&_v=1.0
https://www.bananaindustries.co.uk/products/shimano-deore-11-speed-rear-derailleur-rd-m5100sgs
(I'm sure you know this will work with 12sp)
So is this really identical to the 12S mech? Do all 11s mechs work fine on 12s? (I've got an old six in a box, was going to sell it).
Is there enough b tension for a wide range cassette? arent the jockey wheels different (I tried fitting the 'wrong' jockey wheels to some older kit and it just didn't work for reasons I couldn't work out)
I've got one of these on my HT and a 6100 on my Rise.
The 5100 has plenty of B Screw range to cover a 51t. It doesn't shift as well as the 6100 on my Rise though.
HT is SLX 12sp cassette with M8000 shifter. Rise is XT12sp cassette with M8100 shifter.
Slight differences between the two set ups but they should be functionally the same.
The 5100 does shift nicely. It's precsice and crisp but it's lacking something compared to the 6100.
There's a strong chance that it's down to the frame though. 2018 Orange Crush which I think predates wide adoption of shimano 12sp a d the hanger design doesn't quite allow for a proper setup.
Personally, I'd go for the 6100 over the 5100. Last time I bought some there was only about 7 quid difference and the 6100 looks and feels like it's superior in quality.
I've had an SLX since early 21, it's done just shy of 4000km, and it's still dandy. Running it w NX shifter, cassette and gx chain
So is this really identical to the 12S mech? Do all 11s mechs work fine on 12s? (I've got an old six in a box, was going to sell it).
Is there enough b tension for a wide range cassette? arent the jockey wheels different (I tried fitting the 'wrong' jockey wheels to some older kit and it just didn't work for reasons I couldn't work out)
The 5100 rear mech is part of the 11 speed group with a native 11-51 cassette. It works absolutely fine with no overly bodgy b screw jiggery pokery. 11 and 12 use the same cable pull ratio. side by side with a 6100 mech they look identical in geometry just a different finish/possible different materials.