Decent two-pot brakes for trail riding

Formula Cura

Hope X2.
I'm more than happy with the older Tech 3s (general trail riding, but also BPW, etc.) but the Tech 4s apparently have +30% power.

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/formula-cura-any-good/

Cheers, Formula Cura it is then. Seem to be popular enough for the aftermarket pad suppliers to keep supplying for them.

I’m more than happy with the older Tech 3s (general trail riding, but also BPW, etc.) but the Tech 4s apparently have +30% power.

Also stainless Steel outer piston for less stickiness

Hope X2 are great. Lovely modulation. Nicely made.
Chris Porter at Mojo Geometron recommended the X2/tech3 setup back in 2015 for my first Geometron build and I’m still using them. They never felt low on braking power (200/180 F/R rotors) to me (no Alpine use, though) and far less likely to rub than 4 pot version.
(Leverage innit, a more powerful brake inevitably achieves that power, at least partially, by leverage. More lever movement + less pad movement = more power but less pad retraction so more sensitivity to disc wobble or mud / grit). As you’ve discovered.
My old Formula “the one” brakes were a great example of this. Very strong and good modulation, but hard to keep maintained / free from rub.
Hope X2 might be even nicer than mine, with the new tech 4 levers.
Parts available for ages with Hope. Std pads are apparently Galfer, so no need to upgrade them.
Latest bike (Kenevo SL for spine injury rehab) came with Sram Code R 4 pot and the power / feel is similar to the X2. I’m surprised to write that I actually like the Code R, despite being an entry level lever, but I’m sure they are more likely to rub than my X2s once the discs are less new. If / when I upgrade it’ll be Hope, 100%. Can’t beat em.

I think 4 pot brakes have become fashionable but aren't strictly necessary, Shimano 2 pot brakes have plenty of power for most riding if they're properly set up.

XCRs.

I've always wondered if for most people this obsessive hunting of larger rotors and bigger brakes is cart before horse.

In the UK, you want brakes at a decent temperature to offer consistent power, burn off any momentary water / contaminants etc. Having a massive chunky 220mm rotor means your brake is too often cold then hot then cold. This leads to warped rotors and inconsistent, grabby braking. You don't have massive 40 minute descents, and if Strava is to be believed most people are going downhill pretty slowly. Jesse melamed might need a 220mm REAR rotor for thermal management, but honestly you don't.

I have 2 pot SLX units with the larger pistons and around Scotland never had issues even on longer tracks of the tweed valley. Underrated brake tbh. Remember using the older silver Deore in the alps and that was the standard no issues.

Magura mt trail?

+1 for whatever shimano you fancy. Had some slx 2 pots for a year and a half needed no attention other than new pads. Feel as powerful as deore 4 pots for general trail riding.

Before I bought my Orbea Rise bloke in the shop tried to convince me to buy some XT 4 pots . 500 miles on and the 2 pot Deores are doing fine for my type of riding and where I ride .

I can’t believe how good Magura MT5 are. Make sure you do some upper body work though, they be wanting you over the bars.
They do a 4/2 pot combo as well.

2010 Formula The One.

dc1988
Full Member

I think 4 pot brakes have become fashionable but aren’t strictly necessary,

Aye, absolutely- they do have some minor advantages but they've also got disadvantages. TBF brakes were a solved problem 10 years ago- for most companies anyway. But the bike industry (and its customers) love novelty and change so saying "last year's brake was fantastic so we're still selling it next year" is apparently madness. And half the attempts to create hypey "upgrades" end up introducing problems, like wandering bite points, weird material choices, etc etc. Companies that can't make brakes that reliably work keep trying to reinvent the wheel and we're surprised when the old faults still exist and now there's a new one.

We did this whole stupid thing with motorbikes back in the 90s, 6 pot calipers started appearing on things like the Hayabusa and some GSXRs. And people would "upgrade" their GSXR600's 4 pots with the 6 pots off the 750. Which were heavier, less reliable, constantly prone to uneven wear, and not any more powerful. But were 2 louder.

Looking at all the data, the new Hope Tech 4 levers add so much more mechanical leverage that a Tech 4 X2 will be about halfway between a Tech 3 E4 and a Tech 4 V4 - I’ve got the former with 203/183 rotors on my 160mm 29” hardtail and the latter with 220/200 rotors on my Levo.

So based on that I’d be pretty confident to put Tech 4 X2 on anything short of a big ebike or DH bike (but I’m a fairly middleweight rider).

Formula curas, can’t fault mine. Pretty much zero maintenance other than the occasional bleed.

I have to agree with the 4pot doubters.
I am sure they have some advantages if you are really hurtling down super blacks but most people would be quite happy with 2 pots.
I was suckered into going 4 pot and to be honest they feel exactly the same as the 2 pot SLXs they replaced. There's nothing wrong with them, just not any better.

I paid £60 for second hand but practically new boggo SRAM Level T brakes. I can't fault them compared to past expensive brakes.

I've never gone to 4pot for this reason. Too much hassle for what I could see, very little gain. My formula 2pot over the years have been faultless and never lacked power. Currently cura 2 on all 3 bikes

I’ve never had a problem with the stopping power of any of the Shimano breaks (Deore, SLX, Zee, XT or Saint) when I was regularly riding DH and Alpine stuff and I was around 100kg.

My only problems with them were lack of spare parts (basically use them and bin them) and the wandering bite point that inevitably arises when you least want it.

Power and fading wise they were fine (and usually a lot cheaper than other brands).

Also stainless Steel outer piston for less stickiness

I await everyone's opinion on this after a decent amount of time. I have stainless pistons in my Enduro 4 and original M4 Mono. They stick and unlike plastic they corrode as well. Of course they can be polished up but they were dropped for the best part of 20 years for a reason.

Of course they can be polished up but they were dropped for the best part of 20 years for a reason.

They were dropped because of overheating issues with Alpine use.
I can remember them sending some out to a Swiss holiday company that had seen lots of guests have pretty scarry incidents while out there with them. Myself included.

Yeah they were but they did suffer from corrosion as well. As long as folk actually maintain them they're fine but you know fine and well folk won't and then moan about it.

Hayes Dominion A2 ?

I have the A4s and love them. The interesting thing however is that the A2 has huge 24mm pistons, rather than 2 pairs of 17mm ones as in the A4. This gives them near as makes no difference the same leverage ratio, which incidentally is a bit more than that of Trickstuff Direttissima.

Formula.

Curas on the trail bike and "the one" on my son's hardtail. Ihaven't needed to bleed either even after shortenening the hoses on the curas.

I've got hope V and M4s on my gravity bike which do stop better but need a bit more love to do so.

This is like the "Why don't you service your Fork" thread. My four pots work fine, because I don't ignore the fact that the piston[s] on any caliper brake will go sticky over time*. It seems that rather than buying more stuff; some basic preventative maintenance solvents and tools might be a better bet? I get that there's loads of folks for whom 2 pots offer more than enough stopping power (I was more than happy on Hope XC in the Chilterns) but the OP wants 4 pot equivalent brakes, and the answer to that is probably "maintenance"  and not "credit card"

But the bike industry (and its customers) love novelty and change

In comparison to what we used to have, modern brakes (anything in the last 10 years or so) will be less leaky, weigh less, don't fade etc etc. We all love to say this is better than that, but honestly bar ridiculously expensive stuff hand-made by Germans in a shed, anything from the two big-S or Hope in the last 10 years will be fine. 5 will get you 10 that partly the OP's reason for change is driven by the fact that XT or Codes/Guides are black....shiny black fo'shure, but still black, and you can get Cura in Gold.

*poor choice of piston materiel by the manufacturer notwithstanding.

The new Hope lever design with their larger piston two-pot caliper sounds like a good choice. I run 180 rotors back and front. For relatively short UK trails (I don't ride abroad), is it worth sizing up rotors beyond 180 or sticking with this size to maintain more consistent heat?

I would stick with the rotors you have as you can always go larger in future if you feel the need.

Fwiw I've never had issues with braking from having too large of a rotor, but going too big can makes brakes feel a bit grabby IMO.

I'm 75kg and I ride dragging the brakes (especially the rear). Not the best method I know, but I feel more confident covering the brakes (I'm not an on-off braker).

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rotor-size-myth/

Formula Curas are basically the only brake that's any good at the moment. Having tried a lot of brakes in the last three years they're the only one that offers decent feel, power and reliability for trail riding at a decent weight.

SRAM Guides have essentially no power and one day they'll just die.

Magura MT Trail SLs were a nightmare to set up - pad clearance was tiny and they felt different going into every corner. The plastic lever is also flexy, making the brake feel worse.

Shimano have lost the plot. I've not had wandering bite point but of the six brakes I've used, two brand new XTs had leaks from the piston which would immediately contaminate the pads.

Hope feel like grabbing a sponge and aren't very powerful.

The Formulas I just bolted on, the lever pull and feel was short and consistent front and rear, they're nicely made and they have just kept working. That they're also more powerful than all the others whilst being lighter than everything except the Maguras is a nice bonus.

is it worth sizing up rotors beyond 180 or sticking with this size to maintain more consistent heat?

The issue with bedding pads in isn't with the temperature of the whole rotor, it's to do with the temperature of the surface of the pads and the surface of the rotor (i.e. just the molecules on the surface). Even if the rotor is cold, braking heavily will heat the surface of the pad and rotor enough to deposit a layer of pad material on the rotor. Dragging your brakes gently won't bed the pads in as well as multiple short, hard braking sessions.

I run 200 mm front rotors and 160 or 180 rear, generally with metallic pads. I'm never going to win a DH race, but I've never had problems once the pads have been bedded in. Trying a different pad compound will probably make more of a difference than rotor size as far as cold temperatures go.

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Dragging your brakes gently won’t bed the pads in as well as multiple short, hard braking sessions.

I read/heard somewhere recently someone saying that there are two groups of people that generally brake correctly; ie late and hard. Pros and absolute beginners.

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Brake bedding in is just part of making brakes work better and last longer

https://www.ferodo.co.uk/blog/give-brakes-a-break.html#:~:text=Bedding%2Din.&text=All%20you%20have%20to%20do,have%20new%20coated%20brake%20discs.

nickc
Full Member

In comparison to what we used to have, modern brakes (anything in the last 10 years or so) will be less leaky, weigh less, don’t fade etc etc.

That's kind of my exact point. All my bikes' brakes are from 2010. They're not just reliable, powerful and filled with control, they're also light enough to make sense on an xc bike and good enough to work on a dh bike. Also easy to bleed. There's a point in time round about then where some brakes got really, really good. But since then, selling things on genuine improvement has got harder and arguably selling things on pointless churn and novelty has got easier. Fact is a lot of buyers will buy a new shiny thing that doesn't really work over an old boring thing that works great, and manufacturers have embraced that.

I'm just amazed the standards haven't changed yet.

Sram video: “don’t lock up the brakes when dismounting.”
Interesting.
Jump off a moving bike then.
What did he say “ danger of injury or death”.

How many of you do 20 slowdowns at moderate speed then 20 faster. It’s always seemed to me like about 8-10 stops does the job. Maybe I’m missing out on even better brakes!

I WANT some new Tech4 X2s, but can’t justify them given how well my 12yo M4s perform

Most reliable brakes I've ever had were Shimano two-pot Deores. Pretty powerful too.

And you can often grab them for £100/pair or less.

I'm sure there are better 2-pots out there, but in terms of bang-for-buck I think Deore are podium contenders. I've moved to the 4-pot versions now.

“don’t lock up the brakes when dismounting.”

????

The best bedding in routine I've tried is one from a pro mechanic on Instagram.

Start with rubbing pads together under tap until no grit comes off. Then put pads in. Fill a bottle of water. Ride around with one brake on, wetting the pad/brake as you ride. It squeals, ride until it stops squealing. Repeat 3-5 times until adding water doesn't make it squeal. Repeat on other brake.

Enormous difference to the 'just brake hard' method which always seems to get a uneven deposit and sometimes good sometimes shit brakes.

Just ordered the Cura 2s from Bike Discount. Bargain at €168.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/formula-cura-disc-brake-set