[Closed] Debonair air shafts... worthwhile upgrade?

No experience with the newly released one, but can say the original Debonair shaft makes a noticeable difference Vs the Soloair on a Yari in terms of initial travel sensitivity.

However, I'd first look into upgrading the damper, if that's an option

What are the damper options.

I believe mine has a charger damper?

Makes a huge difference in older pikes plus the new wiper sealsn

My older pikes were really harsh and the 2019 debonair shaft made no difference that I noticed.

I ended up altering the shim stack a couple of times to make them more supple.

Makes a huge difference in older pikes plus the new wiper sealsn

Which wiper seals did you fit?

I'd do the air shaft before the damper, personally.

Cheaper, possibly easier and likely to offer a more noticeable improvement.

That was my thoughts too Chakaping.

I agree - in order of preference I’d go air shaft first (2021 version as there’s so little price difference) then go with the rc2.1 damper if you can afford it. Having upgraded 2018 lyriks I’d say the difference is very noticeable...

Given the questions you have asked and still having issues and not owning even a cassette tool I would instead look at sending them off to a professional who can service them and check out any issues you are experiencing.....far better use of your money and our time

Given the questions you have asked and still having issues and not owning even a cassette tool I would instead look at sending them off to a professional who can service them and check out any issues you are experiencing…..far better use of your money and our time

Yet you use your time to reply??

FWIW I've serviced quite a few sets of Rockshox over the years with no problems what so ever. This is the first set I've come across that needed a cassette tool to remove the top cap. I had a tool but lent it to a mate who hasn't returned it hence I needed to buy one.

I'm asking about upgrading the air shaft whilst I have the forks apart. Whats the problem with that? Many people have done it on here so offer some helpful advice about it.

You’ve got a charger damper (probably a charger 1) so you’ll likely get more benefit from the upgraded airspring.

It’s not an expensive upgrade so I’d just go for it - May as well try the newest 2021 version as there’s little difference in cost between that and the 2019 debonair version.

If the forks haven’t had new seals for a while it would make sense to change those at the same time - I’ve just bought skf ones from TF Tuned for my Lyrik to try. Not expecting a huge change tbh but the Rockshox genuine ones (cheaper) weren’t in stock at the time!

You’ve got a charger damper (probably a charger 1) so you’ll likely get more benefit from the upgraded airspring.

It’s not an expensive upgrade so I’d just go for it – May as well try the newest 2021 version as there’s little difference in cost between that and the 2019 debonair version.

If the forks haven’t had new seals for a while it would make sense to change those at the same time – I’ve just bought skf ones from TF Tuned for my Lyrik to try. Not expecting a huge change tbh but the Rockshox genuine ones (cheaper) weren’t in stock at the time!

Cheers for the info. Going to get ordering.

id swap the sir spring first. its very easy to do.

im n the previous debonair spring which is ok. However i have had to remove all tokens as it still ramps up a lot for normal riding / mincing. I find its a lot better this way but a bit harsher at the bottom which is to be expected. I wouldnt hesitate in going for the new air spring given what your doing.

Youll need a bit of sram butter as well.

I have the old Debonair in a brand new 2020 Pike Select. I'm guessing that it's far too early for me to thinking about the 2021 Debonair upgrade now but if anyone has tried both I would be interested in hearing how significant of an improvement it is. I might upgrade when its time for a full service, that is unless someone thinks I need not bother.

Reviews are few and far between currently but from what I've seen it would be a beneficial.

Reviews are few and far between currently but from what I’ve seen it would be a beneficial.

This is what I found also as like you said not many reviews.

How do you find the original debonair model, have you ridden an older model as a comparison.

I thought the latest air shaft was for the 2020 forks only but apparently not. Having looked at the new air shaft the bottom seal is acting as a spacer. I always thought the idea was to increase the air inside by making use of the middle of the rod and having the thinner base plate.

How do you find the original debonair model, have you ridden an older model as a comparison.

Sadly I have no fair comparison. I have come from the cheapest air fork available (Suntour XCR Air).

I upgraded from solo-air to debonair (2019) and now to debonair (2021). I did change travel between them though so kind of hard to state for certain the differences. I will say the 2021 spring sits noticeably higher in its travel than the two previous. And it's a bit less of a faff to setup. The fork feels great, no complaints with it. I also have a charger 2.1 damper.

Good stuff.

Does it still blow it's travel or is it more progressive now.

Does it still blow it’s travel or is it more progressive now.

End stroke progression is super easy to adjust with tokens, irrespective of the the air spring (solo, debonair or 2021 debonair).

I'm waiting on delivery of a new Debonair spring, it's interesting to read peoples views on it.

I'll let you know how I get on but for £40 it's a cheap enough upgrade.

Upgraded mine from last year's upgrade - it's a big improvement in terms of plushness, and sits higher in its travel. I think the tokens are good to stop bottom out - I use 1 token, 60 psi on 160mm 27.5 Bronson, and I weigh around 70kg and ride in the Lakes.

I'm tempted to do this with my 27.5 Jeffsy, as well as adding 10mm of travel. By 'do this' I mean send it off to tftuned since I don't trust myself to install it right!

Ive ordered the air spring and lower leg service kit and will be doing the conversion as soon as I get the parts.

I almost ordered the plus 10mm version to take my fork to 160mm but if it will make the fork sit higher in its travel I dont think its warranted.

This sounds just the ticket for my hardtail. There are loads of 'first look' articles but few actual reviews. Since its such a cheap thing, I figured Id just bit the bullet and see for myself.

I upgraded a 2020 Ultimate, it sits about 10mm higher with no weight on the bike and also rides a bit higher as well. Definitely worth doing for the money.

That's the thing I asked about in previous versions of this thread.

If it rides a load higher, then surely you don't have enough sag to develop grip from the fork extending?

If you just wanted your bars higher, why didn't you buy risers?

You must have missed the bit in every press release that says that it sags the same but rides dynamically higher.

I read many of the press releases. Perhaps, since they were unable to, could you explain in simple, practical terms, what 'riding dynamically higher' means, if sag is defined as the ride height that the fork sits at under the compression of a rider in the attack position, whilst riding?

Does it mean that it uses less travel for a given impact (i.e. acts as a shorter travel fork, or one with a higher spring rate) - and do you think this is something desirable? If it acts like it has a higher spring rate (due to the smaller negative spring), is this a good thing?

Do you crave 'midstroke support' at the expense of front wheel traction? *cough*

I've read somewhere that is gives back the extra bit of travel that rs forks are known for sucking down when just weighted by the bike.

I've also read that they sit higher in the midstroke travel too.

Also, I don't believe it has a smaller negative spring but does have a smaller positive spring as they are saying you need less pressure for the same sag.

It’s a bit of an odd one this but something I very much noticed myself recently. Bought a set of 2020 Lyrik ultimates and swapped the 150 spring they came with for a 160. I swear I must have had those forks apart 10 times thinking I had installed the spring wrong coz I couldn’t get them to sit at 160!! They sit about 10mm short. Still great forks though - ride superbly and I’ve ordered the 2021 parts. They’re cheap enough and it’ll be interesting to see what difference they make.

Perhaps, since they were unable to, could you explain in simple, practical terms, what ‘riding dynamically higher’ means,

History has shown I lack the necessary tolerance or time for this. Besides, if you dont understand it from the professionals, I am unconvinced some random bloke on a forum will be able to assist.

I would say that you appear to be conflating 'more mid stroke support' with increased spring stiffness, and this is not the case. Look up dynamic sag and static sag, theres plenty on the internet.

Renton - yes, it does have a smaller negative spring. There are three or four threads on this - one I started myself, in fact - where I was edcumacated on this. They might give you back some travel if your pikes suck down, but you could also just cut off your o-ring travel indicator and keep riding as long as you like how the fork performs and not worry about it.

Scienceofficer - I think you might be misreading my post; but I'm glad you have simplified things by confessing to being one of the people that RS designed the new spring for. Probably be a cracking upgrade for you.

View this post on Instagram

^graphs

That's what the numbers say.

Continuity erm sorry but that's wrong :

A clear advantage of the DebonAir upgrade is that the fork will no longer contract. However, due to the higher position of the air spring piston, the positive air chamber shrinks minimally while the volume of the negative air chamber increases.

That is from enduro MTB website.

Negative chamber is definitely smaller in 2021, see the link I put up for images comparing

Scienceofficer – I think you might be misreading my post; but I’m glad you have simplified things by confessing to being one of the people that RS designed the new spring for. Probably be a cracking upgrade for you.

I'm sure you're proud of that one.

Yet you steadfastly refuse to educate yourself and posit your opinion as fact.

deanfbm, can you please point us to the link for images showing the smaller negative air chamber or if you are referring to the graphs in suspension labs posts, can you please explain how you conclude from these graphs that the negative chamber is smaller?

My '19 130 Debonair Revs sat at 120 and I wanted 140. So knowing this I swapped in a 150 which now sits happily at 140 ish.

Half the price and better than a 140 2021 shaft?

All the reviews I've read say the negative spring is bigger and the positive is smaller.

They also say you need less pressure for the same sag so the ties in with a smaller positive chamber.

Renton - I think you may be mistaking, or possibly the reviews may be mushing together the Debonair spring upgrade when it first came out (larger negative chamber) with the 2021 upgrade. This has more negative volume than the gen1 spring, but less than the 2019 debonair upgrade. Plenty on the net showing this. Plenty of reports of a lack of sensitivity off the top as a result (whether you care or not is another matter, suspension is always a tradeoff)

Real good read here

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/rockshox-debonair-2021-a-1133399.html

Do you ever look down between your legs and think, 'I feel like it should be longer, pretty sure some of the length is just sucked up inside. ' Well if so, do we have the product for you...

lol'd at that one

The je ne sais quoi of suspension design, well probably in the whole of bike design is translation between number and feel, when the "right feel" is different person to person.

Ride both back to back and see. Numbers say 2021 is a step back from 2020...

I think you've hit the nail on the head there dean.

Because there's so much flim-flam about this, I just went and bought one to try for myself.

Whilst it was meant as a jibe, continuity was correct when he said this-

Scienceofficer – I think you might be misreading my post; but I’m glad you have simplified things by confessing to being one of the people that RS designed the new spring for. Probably be a cracking upgrade for you.

It arrived today, I fitted it and headed straight out to do 20km of my local rocky, rooty woods after work and I came back more pleased with it than I thought I would.

There's nothing I found about it that hasnt already been said. I found exactly the same as Kazimer on Pinkbike.

Pinkbike

I've gone and scratched the air shaft on my 2018 Pike which now seems to be leaking (doh!) so need a replacement. I was about to buy the 2020 kit then saw that this new 2021 just came out but can't work out if the 2020 would actually be better for me. I'm fairly light and run no tokens and never manage to use full travel at sensible pressure, so think this means I need a more linear spring? I've not really seen the issue with the fork sucking into the travel when off the bike, the front end is also plenty high enough due to a new lower headset cup so I'm not fussed about it being 5mm lower anyway.

Im still waiting on the parts from Jtech, but I do really like what RS are doing here. I can pay a small amount to keep my bike current, and if I don't get on with it, I'll just go back to the 2020 version. I think that's great tbh.

I've booked a service and debonair upgrade with travel change for my 2017 jeffsy 27 pike at TFTuned. Got a solo air in there currently, don't trust myself to do the service well so thought I might as well support a fairly local business and get it done professionally. Quite excited honestly as I won't be buying a new bike for a while thanks to saving for a house deposit, so getting the fork refreshed and updated and more travel added seems like just the ticket. I've been doing a lot more winch and plummet riding so having a 160 fork makes sense to me.

I do have a question though, I selected TFTuned's courier service to pick the fork up, if I don't have a fork box what's the best way to pack it? Wrap it in bubble wrap obviously but then how should I bodge some cardboard around it?

I'm on the fence with these incremental updates as to whether they are a good thing or just fixing things that should have been right first time. What's the situation like in Fox world? Or DVO/Ohlins etc for that matter? The last non-Rockshox fork I owned had elastomers in it!

Whilst it was meant as a jibe, continuity was correct when he said this-

It's only a jibe if you think a suspension fork is there to provide front wheel traction rather than to compensate for your body position and braking form e.t.c

Glad you like it.

I'm a bit non-plussed with your last comment.

You appear to be suggesting that the purpose of a suspension fork is to correct for body position and brake dive. Is that correct?

I think it will be good for me personally as having to put less air in to get the same sag and the fact it ramps up a bit more should be good as I'm a heavy bugger.

So Ive just changed my air shaft from the original non debonair 150mm one to the new 2021 debonair version.

Side by side the new air shaft is around two cm longer than the original. In fact it's longer by the length of the red anodised bit at the bottom.

With the correct air pressure my fork used to sit on the 10% sag line without me on the bike.

Now the sage lines are well up the fork length.

Not done any proper riding yet but it's definitely sitting higher as my bike feels higher at the front which is good.

Need to bleed my new magura brake next then can get out on a decent ride.

I’m a bit non-plussed with your last comment.

You appear to be suggesting that the purpose of a suspension fork is to correct for body position and brake dive. Is that correct?

No, the exact opposite.

I'll make it simpler. The new upgrade increases ride height, which has benefit of compensating for poor setup or poor riding - but it costs you traction. The leverage charts all show this quite clearly, as do reports across the internet that aren't just paid sram press releases. Just depends what you want from a fork.

Continuity can you explain it a bit better for me please.

Before I did the upgrade my 150mm fork measured 140mm with the correct air pressure in for me. How does that equate to poor set up ?

Anyone know where i can get these in stock?

I'm interested in upgrading my 27.5" Pike with a Debonair air shaft (and changing travel at the same time), the model I have is the catchy: FS-PIKE-RCT3-A2

So I take it this is an 'A2' Pike.

From the TF Tuned Page the 20212 C1 Debonair (the newest one) does not look like it works for an A2 fork:
https://www.tftuned.com/2021-c1-debonair-air-spring-upgrade-kits-pike-yari-lyrik/p3851
/a>

So I guess I can only go so far as the original Debonair:
https://www.tftuned.com/debonair-air-spring-upgrade-kits-pike-yari-lyrik/p3412

And if I want 130 travel on a 27.5 fork I go for the RS00.4019.931.010

Have I got all of that right?!

And if I want 130 travel on a 27.5 fork I go for the RS00.4019.931.010

Have I got all of that right?!

Correct

The Rockshox Trailhead App is quite good for letting you know what works with your fork. Worth a play (you will need the number off the back of the fork crown).

..

The Rockshox Trailhead App is quite good for letting you know what works with your fork. Worth a play (you will need the number off the back of the fork crown).

That was my starting point but unless I missed something there was not a definitive list of what would and would not work but I looked at Pg7 of this Debonair upgrade document that I think sets out that it is not compatible with the new Debonair but is with the older one.