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https://m.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos-12-speed-xtr-drivetrain-and-3-other-rumors-from-eurobike.html
Could well be let's have a standards war
Interesting stuff and the more choice the better to a degree.
Just wondering if they are a bit too late to the party?
they have been looking for the party for the last 5 years or so... not using xd will be a pain though as it's not actually making more choice though I'm sure the faboys won't care (and suddenly stop saying oh but you have to buy a new freehub)
Never cared about the party as not fussed about dinner size cogs or one tooth less on my rarely used top gear anyway.
Still cup n cone though I'll bet !
Will check back in a couple of years time when the slx version is out- still my benchmark drivetrain!
the easiest solution would surely be to use the open standard freehub design one-up developed with Hope if they are going to use 10T...?
though this is of course shimano we are talking about..
my money would be more on them sticking with 11T due to their rythmn step gearing philosophy and the decrease in efficiency with a 10T..
can see a 11-50/1 12 speed being something they would do though with more and more bikes being designed around 1X..
it will be interesting to see what they do to reduce the weight to make it competetive with SRAM..
*in shimano, *in standards. And if you don't like it, too bad, they'll use their market power to get it into all the OEMs like they did with 15mm and establish it that way instead.
Not just a new standard, NW. LOADS of new standards
"Also, news that many won't welcome, there could actually be a few different 12-speed freehubs from Shimano to suit different setups. "
Imagine the weight of a Shimano 12 cassette?
You could carry your own gravity with you.
Still, 12 speed XXTR sounds appealing.
Imagine the weight of a Shimano 12 cassette?
This is XTR though and they tend to be far more economical than the pig-iron used on the lower groupsets. That said, the M9000 one is still a bit heavier than the XX1. It also doesn't cost a brazillion GBP...
shimano already offer a [url= https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cassettes/shimano-capreo-csf700-9-speed-cassette-926t/ ]9T low cassette.[/url]
always though this was a neat solution - just shorten the freehub.
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thomthumb - Memberalways though this was a neat solution - just shorten the freehub.
It's neat, although it still had the issue of cogs digging into splines. XD has been a joy for me not having to deal with that
Yeah, it's a nice adaptation but it basically ends up with most of the issues of the old and new, and not all of the advantages. If you're changing standards anyway there's not a lot of point of retaining some features of the old one, while being incompatible.
Mind you the XD freehub isn't without issues either, especially in the hands of DIY spannerists who don't grease it enough or use the wrong tools.
Shortening the freehub is basically how the new hope/oneup open standard does it.
No digging in issues though as the lower part of the block is a single lump as well, it has to be to support the 10t.
Freehub digging on Shimano hubs is not much of an issue if you use same or less hardness materials in the carrier.
Once I stopped using cheap steel carrier cassettes on light alloy freehubs, I don't have a problem. Minor notches perhaps over a long period of time, but cassette always comes off easy.
Plus another solution is the bite protection on some freehubs. Just simply a harder (e.g. steel) plate on one of the splines.
This interested me:
...rumors have Shimano also employing a new freehub, and using a smaller version of their Centerlock threaded lockring to attach the cassette. Also, news that many won't welcome, there could actually be a few different 12-speed freehubs from Shimano to suit different setups...
Something more like a fine tooth spline is probably better for transmitting torque, if they were to do away with a full width FH body and have a new interface for mounting an alloy carrier based cassette...
Personally I think the 'old' IG/HG FH body pattern has overall been a success, it's been the defacto standard for mounting cassettes for the best part of ~35 years and has taken us from six to eleven sprockets on the back, until XD even SRAM were happy to use the same interface...
That Shimano feel they need to produce a 10t sprocket is telling, clearly they're responding to SRAMs lead on 1x drivetrains again...
The rate of 'trickle-down' will be interesting, and seeing whether or not they bother to accommodate 'old' 135mm QR standard hubs at any price point with 12 speed, or indeed if they will bother to produce say an 11-46t 12-speed cassette to fit on an HG pattern body, or simply kill it off at 11-speed.
A 9-46 tooth cassette would be interesting. 10-51 would give all the range I need, so I'd be interested when it reaches XT level or so...
I can't see that a shorter freehub body gives any bigger issues than the XD system which is essentially a very short splined interface - as long as you use it with one piece carriers.
Might have to get an 11sp Shimano group while I can. Boost and a new Shimano hub standard are 2 standards too far for me.