[Closed] Dear Hope Technology,

Not fit for purpose? Hope sell 60,000+ sets of hubs a year, I think if most were breaking then they'd do something about it pronto.

Bearings are made by a 3rd party, INA. not Hope, they are top quality stainless units. some fail, most don't. All they can do is replace any genuine warranty items no questions asked, which is what they do.

It seems you have some sort of beef with Hope, nothing they'd have done would make you happy.

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months. It's no use to me, so I want to know why it failed then we all know where we are. If they don't want to tell me then I can't force them, but I'd suggest that that behaviour stretches the goodwill between them and an already disappointed customer. It's not an isolated early failure, there are other folk on here who have experienced the same thing.

For gods sake man, what is wrong with you? Either ring them and ask, sell the now fixed wheel with new internals (selling point) and buy a different brand or stfu and get on with using the thing.

[i]'that behaviour stretches the goodwill between them and an already disappointed customer.'[/i] I fear for you if you have to deal with most other companies.

If Hope were making shoddy goods and pulling the wool over the customer's eyes then they'd soon go out of business. Since they have seen near continuous growth suggests that this is not the case.

I've had one occasion to ring Hope about a "faulty" product: I've one of the early Vision 2 bike lights and about a year ago it would keep cutting out seemingly at random, I could then turn the unit back on and it would work OK for a varying amount of time before cutting out again. The unit was several years out of warranty so I rang Hope (on a Saturday):

"I've a faulty Vision 2 but not sure if it's light or battery, how do I get it back to you?"

"How old is it?"

"About five years I think"

"Have a look down the end of the battery lead, is there a split across the internal pin?"

"Yes"

He then described what the problem was and how to fix it and avoid shorting the battery. Since then it's worked fine and just as importantly I know how to deal with the problem should it arise again. Some firms would have said "Send it in, we'll have a look at it and it's a £50 standard fee plus parts".

Customer service is usually the first thing to be cut when a firm is looking to cut costs. If Hope were having huge numbers of units being returned then they couldn't afford to offer the service they do, it would bankrupt them. From that you can only assume that they have very few returns.

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]Makes mental note never to sell anything to billyboy, unless I suddenly possess the actual moon on a stick, and then decide to sell it. 😆

Billyboy, whilst everyone else runs around it a tizzy looking for their high horses, I'm going to attempt to answer your question in a logical manner.....
Firstly, take a look at this pic:
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7495/15610835974_957ca102fd_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7495/15610835974_957ca102fd_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/15610835974/ ]Hope bearing[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

The 2 bearings on the left are from a Hope XC hub. The front uses 2 of them, the rear 4, all the same size. This is the older, obsolete, hub form when Hope produced a different hub for each application. So, in the QR XC hub they could use nice fat bearings. They lasted years. I love them. I still use them in preference to the newer stuff.
The 4 bearings on the right are Pro 2 rear hub bearings. (There is one more of a different size that I don't have, sorry, but it's a bit bigger than the 2 small ones) The rear uses 5 bearings of 3 different sizes. As you can see these are nowhere near as chunky as the older XC bearings. This is why they fail, and I think the ones that you had fail are those small weedy ones there....
Why do they use these bearings?
So instead of making different hubs for different applications, one hub will do anything with a simple change of adaptor. This is partly because we have so many different standards these days, and partly a cost saving exercise with those standards in mind.
But as you can see, there's no doubt bearing longevity is compromised.
Also, add in alloy axles and general lightweight constuction and things can easily snap/disintegrate/fail/bend etc. There's a price to pay for lightweight, multi use hubs, basically.

I'm tough on hubs and wheels in general. I can break anything. XC hubs last longer, which is why I still use them. I've had 5 Pro 2 hubs and only one of them has had the supplied bearings last more than a year. They snap pawl springs too. And one on my wife's bike had the spoke flange crack off. And the only one I have left (front) won't retain its adapter circlip as the edge of the channel it sits in has cracked off.
The newer Hope hubs are crap. They don't last. They're the most problematic hub I know of. (Save cheapo OEM ones)
I had the choice of any hub I wanted to build a new set of touring wheels on. I could have used the Hope XC hubs I was already using again. But I didn't. I went for the toughest most reliable hub I could think of. Shimano XT.......

Hope than answers your question. 🙂

My problem is that I don't want a hub that fails in less than 5 months

I think it was a fluke. You know what a fluke is, don't you?

Given the number of people who are saying their hubs lasted well...

[quote=scotroutes ]Nobeerinthefridge  » Makes mental note never to sell anything to billyboy, unless I suddenly possess the actual moon on a stick, and then decide to sell it.

Also on my no sell or buy from list

I think it was a fluke

Even when the post just above yours proves it isn't? 🙂

[quote=PeterPoddy ]proves it isn't? Get over yourself. As many previous posts show, there are loads of folk on this forum perfectly happy with the performance and reliability of their Hope hubs. Yours is just another opinion.

You proved that the bearings are small, and less durable than XC, but you didn't prove that they are only expected to last 5 months.

We are talking about pro 2 yes? The same ones I've had on my bikes for 7 years trouble free?

You proved that the bearings are small, and less durable than XC, but you didn't prove that they are only expected to last 5 months.

ive had 5 Pro 2 hubs and only one of them has had the supplied bearings last more than a year

Phhhhhh.....

And please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said "expected to last" at all.

I'll say again, save for cheapo OEM stuff, Pro 2s are the most problematic hub I've experienced. 🙂

🙄

And please stop putting words in my mouth

I didn't.

OP said the hubs were only expected to last 5 months.

I said that was a fluke.

You said it wasn't a fluke, there by implying that he SHOULD expect them to last 5 months.

the freehubs on mine all got chewed to bits by the cassette way before the bearings failed

never had major problems with hope and always choose their stuff as a first choice. i did find all the niggles i have with my bikes mainly stopped after I stopped leaving them in a damp environment sheds ect and started storing them in a dry damp free building. i know this is not an option for many people but if you can it does help.

Same thing happened to my Hope Pro2 on a flow after three months. Stopped freewheeling and had a crack through it. Figured hammering down Hellvelyn on my hardtail had done the damage. Sent it off to Hope in the hope they would fix it and I'd be happy to cover the cost. Two days later brand new hub arrives laced onto my rims with no charge. I thought it was cracking service! Thanks Hope!

I went for the toughest most reliable hub I could think of. Shimano XT.....

I thought you worked in a bike shop? I have seen more XT hubs with cracked/failed free hubs than any other hub (we also sold Hopes).

I would use Hopes over XT hubs any day.

Thanks for that Peter.

I have run the older Pro 2 hubs as my preference for ages and they have been pretty good.

I'll refit this Pro2 Evo and see how it goes.

My top tips for Hope hubs (or fitting any other bearing-thingamy):

Before you fit new bearings, lift their rubber dust seals (using a fine pointy thing like a needle), and pack the bearings with a high quality grease. (There's never even nearly enough in them from factory IMO for UK conditions).

When you fit them - use a bearing seating compound (green Loctite stuff in a bottle), which ensures they are 'fixed' to the bearing faces in the hub, freehub, whatever. Apparently, if you don't do this - the bearings will twist and turn slightly under load - and therefore eventually fail.

I'll refit this Pro2 Evo and see how it goes.

Finally a breakthrough.

Start the clock!!!!

Got hope XC, Pro2 and XT
Not had any issues with any of them
XT require maintenance though to keep in tip top condition

I think people fishing the seal out to repack the bearings is what kills them. Firstly its almost impossible to get the seal out without some kind of damage and secondly if you put too much grease in the balls stop rolling, they tend to skid round on the grease, overheat and wear out. My only Hope bearing failure in ten years was as a result of a damaged seal when the bearing was installed (by someone else).

I can't believe that this is still rumbling on!

I'm no Hope fanboi, but their hubs have been OK that I have used. I had Bulb that part of the flange came away that was replaced no questions asked. I do miss the old XC hubs - they were ace.

With regards to PP's post - I'm not surprised there are bearing issues given how small they are now but Hope and many other manufacturers are at the mercy of changing standards. After spending a reasonable chunk of money on wheels, many people want them to be adapatable.

Hope kit is fantastic. It's also backed up THE best customer service of any industry.

Just because the customer service is tip notch is not indicative of a poor product. They simple wouldn't be in business if their failure rate was that implied by the haters.

If you want bearings like the old XC hubs in a hub that has the capability to run 142x12 through axle then the hub will be a gurt lump to accommodate them.

Cheap/strong/light? They're not cheap, but they are very good value for money. They're strong enough for me, and I'm a gurt fat heffer with the finesse of a bulldozer. They're light enough for everyone except anorexic weight weenies.

What were you hoping to achieve exactly by posting your rant OP? You bought something, it may or may not have been defective, it broke, they replaced it asap at no charge. Its not as if youve had to return it multiple times is it?

I can only assume you posting on here was intended to paint hope in a bad light. I'd say its had the opposite effect, as all you've done is highlight the superb customer service they offer in the unfortunate and rare ocurance that something goes wrong

For what its worth, I've only got one hope product, a set of pro 2 hubs. After 3 years a Pawns broke, I sent them a mail asking where I could buy a new one (sets cost 15 quid each, I only needed one and I'm tight). They sent me a set free of charge the next day.

Also...if the bearings were shot why not just buy a new set..? (or try to blag free of hope!)

bearings are a consumable part?

how heavy are you? where do you ride? do you jet wash your bike? what weather do you ride in? where do you store your bike?

you're lucky you got rapid service and a free repair.

rumple

I know that bearings degrade and I do expect to have to renew them, just not every four to five months.

tpbiker....

look at my post, then look at other posts here... as far as rant goes I'm nowhere in it

[quote=billyboy ]rumple
I know that bearings degrade and I do expect to have to renew them, just not every four to five months.

But you haven't had to do this [b]every[/b] four to five months have you? Its been done once!

Many people have had years of trouble free use of hope hubs you've been unlucky move on.

tpbiker....

look at my post, then look at other posts here... as far as rant goes I'm nowhere in it

Most of the others are justified though.

Hi I work for SKF* and can definitely say that the early life failure of your bearings was caused by just how hard you shred teh gnar. I hope this clears up the situation so that this thread can rightfully sink to the depths.

*maybe

I think people fishing the seal out to repack the bearings is what kills them. Firstly its almost impossible to get the seal out without some kind of damage and secondly if you put too much grease in the balls stop rolling, they tend to skid round on the grease, overheat and wear out. My only Hope bearing failure in ten years was as a result of a damaged seal when the bearing was installed (by someone else).

Flip me is this still going on!?

They're bearings, they're consumable, readily available and take a minimal time to replace.

Still non the wiser as to why the wheel was de-laced.

[img] [/img]

Jeez enough with the Hope Faboi-ism

My rear XC hub has been through 4 pairs of bearings

It's only 15yrs old ffs

Just so we all know, exactly HOW long should hub bearings last?
I'm dying to know.

Jeez enough with the Hope Faboi-ism

My rear XC hub has been through 4 pairs of bearings

It's only 15yrs old ffs

And my 4.5 year old Hope BB definitely has more friction than my 1 year old one. Appalling!

Love the thread - very enjoyable.

FWIW, I rate Hope's customer service as very good indeed. I've had a few occasions where I've been unable to trace a specific service part and a quick email has resulted in the part arriving in the post, FOC.

Still running a set of 13 year old hubs (third set of bearings) and a similar age set of M4 brakes (that have been rebuilt twice). This stuff has worked hard and the fact that I'm still using it is the greatest complement I can pay to Hope's longevity.

Have to say i cant believe OP thought that was an actual reply from Hope talking about bearings spinning the opposite way in oz and being directional LOL.

FFS bearings fail early sometimes, that's why a warranty is offered

Hope are great.

They sorted my Hope vision HID light out when it was 3+ years old FOC.

I managed to snap a brake banjo and a nice bloke patiently explained to me over the phone how to solve my own ham fisted efforts

Got Hope XC on one bike and ProIIs on another, both have needed a single bearing swap in as long as I've had them.

Their brakes can be completely rebuilt or they will do it for you for a very reasonable price.

I'm not a fanboi - decreased biking budget means a lot of my new kit is Shimano but I appreciate the value of decent service when i get it

Love the thread - very enjoyable.

It's preferable to being cornered behind a counter in a bike shop with the disgruntled OP going on and on and on and on and on....

I feel sorry for the people he visits in person.

And /\ is basically why I don't want to work in bike shops anymore (after 10 years).
-We've fixed your bike (no charge),we are sorry it broked,have something free.
-WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY This is terrible service and I'm going to rant for no discernible reason and personally blame YOU so your boss will blame YOU and put your job in jeopardy.
-What can we do to resolve this.
-I don't know,nothing.Errr.... thanks,bye now.

Can I also point out ( I dont think this has been said already, apologies if it has) that bearings dont just SUDDENLY collapse. Typically they will get rough and develop play well before they collapse, so you should get plenty of advance warning before they finally die.
The fact the outer race was left behind in the freehub body suggests that someone hadn't been looking after their bike / paying it much attention, because the bearings have to be royally toasted.

Fair point Bigyinn, but there was no play. Even on the last day I rode it there was none anywhere. There was a creak and that coincided with a worn transmission so I stopped riding it until I could take a proper look. I admit I thought it was the press fit bb so I had bought a new one. When I did take a proper look that seemed ok. The only thing that alerted me was the stiffness of the rear axle. When I took the free hub off the mess that greeted me was a genuine shock. The two main hub bearings were fine, as was the outer free hub bearing, so the axle was still supported ok.

4 pages of guff about nothing.

You can say what you like about Hope but they know how to look after their customers.

Try talking to them instead of posting smarmsh1te on the forum?

Hope components have a higher than average failure rate, not only in my experience (3 out of 4 components, one twice) but for everyone else who posts with similar tales on this forum. If this wasn't the case then where are the numerous posts about faulty Thomson components? If you're lucky enough to have had no issues with Hope then good for you. Return postage ain't cheap and their super customer service is a bit too essential for my liking.

[quote=enfht ]Hope components have a higher than average failure rate, not only in my experience .. but for everyone else who posts with similar tales on this forum.As has already been explained, folk don't tend to start threads about the fact that they've NOT had to replace a Hope bearing or whatever so you have no way of putting the number of negative comments in any sort of perspective.

Good on yer billyboy, I haven't bothered reading all 4 pages as it seemed from the off that you were clearly wrong to have an opinion and express it too. Still they have a point, why wouldn't you expect your overpriced, hand crafted in Britain from the highest quality plasticine, components to pack up within months, so that you can carry a full spares package and exact your own field repairs. Keep up the good work and don't give in to the pressure no matter how unbearable it becomes 😉

I have little more to add apart for my Hope history. Been using their hubs & brakes solely for 15 years & I've had to use their backup/advice 4 times. 1st time was for an original none disc XC broken axle that was 2 years out of warranty, FOC. 2nd & 3rd were for replacement Maxles on my 5, FOC & replaced with a steel one, been fine since. 3rd time was for a faulty charger on some 2 yr old Vision 4's, replaced FOC.
If you don't like their stuff & service, get something else, It's an easy choice.
PS, never had ANY issues with Hope brakes.

Overpriced? Really? I can't think of any comparable quality hubs for a similar price. There's Shimano but I'd rather have sealed bearings, a freehub I can service, and the option to use different axle standards.

How long should hub bearings last?

How long should hub bearings last?

Far too many variables.

Mileage
Conditions
Winter salt on commute?
Jet wash
Pish installation by gibbon fisted home mechanics
Lack of grease

And so on.....

As has already been explained, folk don't tend to start threads about the fact that they've NOT had to replace a Hope bearing or whatever so you have no way of putting the number of negative comments in any sort of perspective

Not sure whether you're missing the point on purpose?

where are the numerous posts about faulty Thomson components?

where are the numerous posts about faulty Thomson components?

[url= http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/cracked-thomson-stem-564429.html ]here ya go[/url]

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cracked+thomson+stem&biw=1233&bih=830&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CAOxVM_ADNTtaMa2gOgD&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg ]with lots of pretty pictures[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/cracked-stem ]
and here[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/hands-up-whos-broken-a-thomson-stem ]
another[/url]

[url= http://biketriad.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=3&id=32798&Itemid=100003 ]other forums too[/url]
[url= https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32442.0 ]
this could go on for a while[/url]

My what alot of photos of ham fisted monkeypaws mechanics foopas you have posted there klunk.

If this wasn't the case then where are the numerous posts about faulty Thomson components?

Because they make so many items with moving parts and things that can wear out...

where are the numerous posts about faulty Thomson components?

EDIT - as cgguru posted moments before.

see what happens if you do the a google image search with [url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cracked+hope+stem&biw=1233&bih=830&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=kgWxVNaKH8fkaPepgqAM&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg ]"cracked hope stem"[/url]

Still going christ. Im sure it would have been easier to get a reply from hope from the start rather than an independent forum

Btw samsung why has my phone battery died after 14 months ???

2 hope stems on that page klunk....both with similar failure modes in flexure points when pinch bolt clamps are done up- at a guess to more than 5nm

None of my 3 Hope components which broke had moving parts.