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HWDTY?
Looks really interesting:
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Coil performance and reliability/minimal faffage, with a climb switch. ime one of the major advantages of coil shocks is the grip available on technical climbs, providing you don't just mash the pedals in granny gear!
And [url= http://www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/dbcoil-il/features ]comes in a range of sizes[/url] to suit trail bikes (190x50 in particular)
I've always thought lightweight coil is better than air for forks, so it's cool to see shock manufacturers taking note too. Yes there'll be a weight penalty but only a few hundred grams.
My only thought is which suspension designs/leverage curves a coil shock will suit. I imagine most frames now are designed with a regressive leverage curve to account for the ramp-up of air shocks. So a linear coil spring might mean lots of harsh bottom outs.
I've been toying with the idea of a Transition Scout for my new bike and Transition just replied to say the Coil IL will work really well on the Scout because of the slight progressive leverage curve 😀
Yeah, I quite like the idea to be honest. It comes in at about the same weight as a CCDB A - no need for the piggback for most UK riding - but the midstroke support, sensitivity and reliability would be a boon.
Doesn't come in size I need - 222x66
Boooo!
I've been eyeing this up for the Aeris. Still wanting to try a coil on it and this looks like it would be perfect!
any idea on prices ?
http://www.canecreek.com/store/suspension/double-barrel/dbcoil-il
$550 plus your spring ($130 if going for the lighter valt) so $680. Who knows how that price will work out over here.
Yeah potentiality this looks really interesting! Need to wait to hear some reviews on performance/reliability though.
Cane Creek reliability has been pretty good. The inline was't perfect but most of the problems seemed to occur on Spesh frames, where the shock is directly connected to the swingarm so any frame flex caused major side-loading to the shock.
$680USD is currently £513. So I suspect we'll be paying £680!
Hopefully it'll come down a bit; charging more than a Float X2 isn't going to do much for CC sales. £500 inc spring would be a sensible starting place
I'll never understand why it took so long to get coil shocks with climb switches tbh, it's a proper gamechanger. As you say though there'll be bikes this just doesn't suit well, I can see it going a bit wrong in some cases.
Depends, I don't see why people have such an issue with IFP coil shocks but are then perfectly happy to run an air shock. Sure IFP shocks aren't as sensitive as bladder based coils, but you can stick a boost valve on them or increase the IFP pressure and get more bottom out resistance can't you.
That's the reason why Pivot will tell you to go with an ElevenSix if you want a coil shock for one of their bikes, because PUSH built a shock that could be tuned around the wonky regressive leverage ratio.
Anyone know if the Valt Spring can be used a regular CCDB? Or how they compare weight wise to a Ti Spring or SAR?
Tom KP
As you say though there'll be bikes this just doesn't suit well, I can see it going a bit wrong in some cases.
Yes I'm expecting a few initial review along the lines of 'bought this for my completely unsuited full sus coz it looked awsumz, no idea what the twiddly dials do, slower on Strava - it's cr$p' 😀
Cane Creek reliability has been pretty good
Not on the inline it hasn't, I went through 3 in 12months (not on a Specialized) before Cane Creek offered an free upgrade to the AirCS. TF tuned were great through the process but they said that it had happened to a lot of other people too.
It's the problem about fitting so many complex parts in such a small package, everything is a downsized version of the airCS
got one for my suppressor although I weighed myself on dodgy scales so over estimated my spring lb meaning I'm only getting 25% sag.
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That's the reason why Pivot will tell you to go with an ElevenSix if you want a coil shock for one of their bikes, because PUSH built a shock that could be tuned around the wonky regressive leverage ratio.
Except no Pivot bikes from the last few years have a regressive leverage ratio - they're DW designs and have his usual progressive-linear kinematics.
Inline Coil looks cool!
If it performs as well as it looks - it should be excellent! Love the look of coil shocks.
poah- how do you find it compared with the standard air shock?
I spotted a specific aftermarket linkage for Santa Cruz VPP bikes to support the use of coil shocks. Now can't find the link! Think it might have been part of the ElevenSix package.
I spotted a specific aftermarket linkage for Santa Cruz VPP bikes to support the use of coil shocks. Now can't find the link! Think it might have been part of the ElevenSix package.
Got one on my Nomad it's A Push link.
Thinking of this CC IL for my new Mega.
Looking good! Not sure but I might have a 350 spring to fit that if you need one (if it was me I'd be getting some lightweight hotness though...)
RicB - Memberpoah- how do you find it compared with the standard air shock?
can't really give you much as the spring rate is currently too high due to a inaccurate scale 🙁 it is however vasty more sensitive and less soggy than the monarch was on the suppressor. Its not that the monarch isn't a good shock I just don't think it was tuned right for the suppressors suspension.
I've ordered a nukeprood SLS spring from CRC so will be able to let you know by the weekend.
£430 plus Spring is a bit steep though, it's effectively a £360 dbinline without the aircan.
The inline is cheaper as its been out a while but you'll notice the dhx2 is more expensive than the X2. I do agree I was disappointed at the price difference but he exchange rate has got worse recently
The db coil won't fit my bike nor will the X2/DHX2 or x-fusion vector so his was the only option
Economies of scale too, I suspect :-/
Whyyyy did I have to see this!?
Quite fancy one for my Rocket now, not that there's anything wrong with the CCDBA on it..
The coil has better inital sensitivity, its really quite a lot better than the monarch. The IL coil also has a bladder rather than an IFP so there is no stiction from that either. The inline also has more oil than a standard non-piggyback shock too. so for the average joe, they are not going to miss the effects of the extra oil on a piggyback air shock.
RicB - Memberpoah- how do you find it compared with the standard air shock?
had a run today with the lighter spring, its bloody amazing compared to the monarch on the suppressor. weighs 655g with the nukeproof SLS spring. adjusted the rebound a bit from the settings TFtuned set up for me.
People need to be careful about chucking any shock on their bike. A lot of bikes are designed for an air shock and the linkages work accordingly, mine (ibis HD3) for instance with the dw link cannot be improved with a coil shock. Elevensix tried and failed to produce a tune for the HD3 that would improve performance. Before you point out the racer that runs an xfusion coil on his... he does so because of a bad back. I'd love to run a coil but wouldn't get any benefit.
Blatant sales pitch - I've got a 216 x 63 Xfusion Vector HLR coil (with 400lb steel spring) in the classifieds now
You're looking at around 420 RRP with a coil and hardware FWIW. If you're thinking of putting one on an aeris it will work fine. The leverage is progressive and will offer enough support to stop you blowing through the travel, although I would recommend if you're split in terms of spring weights go heavier, not lighter.
£430 incl hardware from tftuned but no Spring
£430 plus spring is the price I've seen. CRC might end up doing it a bit cheaper but that won't include hardware.
pitchpro2011 - Member
People need to be careful about chucking any shock on their bike. A lot of bikes are designed for an air shock and the linkages work accordingly, mine (ibis HD3) for instance with the dw link cannot be improved with a coil shock. Elevensix tried and failed to produce a tune for the HD3 that would improve performance. Before you point out the racer that runs an xfusion coil on his... he does so because of a bad back. I'd love to run a coil but wouldn't get any benefit.
Yep - I mentioned this earlier. It's almost like we need a suspension kinematics expert to list the types of suspension where coil is best suited - calling chiefgrooveguru and Rik Draper....
It's not just the bike but the trails you ride.
A coil will instantly improve small bump sensitivity on any bike
but on a bike with a flat or regressive rate you can find it will just wallop throught the end of the travel and negate the small bump advantage by needing a much firmer spring
my leverage rate while isn't linear, hardly changes. Don't think any bikes these days have a purely regressive rate.
The 400lb Spring have me 25% sag and was better than the monarch at 30/35%
Exactly - it suits progressive rate suspension, otherwise you'd have to run so much HSC it'll feel awful.
yup, i also have a suppressor. from stock it had full allocation of bands in the monarch (not sure if this is the norm) and im contemplating a coil shock at the moment. the fact as standard the bike isnt HUGELY progressive worries me a little
I've been doing some reading up about the Rocket's suspension design it has a rising leverage rate of 20%, so it sounds like it should work well with a coil.
I'm going to spend some time fiddling with the air shock before committing to one though I reckon.
RicB - MemberExactly - it suits progressive rate suspension, otherwise you'd have to run so much HSC it'll feel awful
it runs from 2.5 to 2.3 hardly any progession. If I ran my monarch at the same sag and no bands it would bottom out. The coil is much better because its better damped than the monarch even though its a linear spring. I'm only running 1 turn of HSC out of 4.5.
Most air shocks get softer in the early part of the midstroke, so a coil running the same sag will have more support there. The lack of seal stiction and friction in the coil will also mean you'll get more sensitivity with equal sag. Rocket would be great with a coil!
Further support for a coil shock on a bike with a flat/neutral leverage curve comes from the fact Orange used to offer the Five with a coil option.
I emailed Orange a few weeks ago actually; they confirmed the new 2017 Five has a slightly more progressive leverage curve (to mimic the feel of the Four but with more travel) so suits the coil inline really well.
Are these proving reliable then?
@ Poah - What settings did you finally settle with? I am on the same spring rate and just like to compare. Thanks.
currently running a 450lb Valt spring with very little preload. I've been mucking about with my settings as I've been riding various different trails.
Currently using (all from fully open)
HSC 1.5
LSC 12
HSR 1.25
LSR 7
@ Poah - Fully open being fully counter clockwise? 450ILBS spring so you are circa 75kg? Thanks for info. Anyone else want to share settings please feel free including spring size and rider weight.
about 80kg kitted up and fully open in fully counter clockwise yes.