The comments from drivers are just as bad..how long before these people are educated?
nice click bait not sure I want to be in the know 😉
Not klickbait..
[url=
better[/url]
your link just takes you to a facebook group to join, may be different for you as you're already a member, but for anyone else it's click bait. Nope still click bait
Ah ok.yes im a member..apologies Im not internet-abled...I have other qualities..
Still baiting
I was baited in by that title. Probably some phishing scam so I'm not clicking on that link.
Is it a van over taking a cyclist.. Then deliberately turning in on him to push him onto a verge
Yes thats the one...
[url= https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1882114922032410&id=1527381920839047 ]this[/url]
getting some flak on their [url=
page[/url]
As some are commenting on their, forget reporting that driver to his company, it needs reporting to the police. The police then need to charge him with assault rather than simply dangerous driving.
Not surprising, since plenty of tradesmen are thick, aggressive and have little patience.
[i]Is it a van over taking a cyclist.. Then deliberately turning in on him to push him onto a verge[/i]
Spoiler. Don't need to watch now. Or read the comments of the Facebookk moron crowd
Seen this before. I'm sure there will be all kinds of comments about the cyclist's position in the road, and he may well have been partly doing it out of anger and frustration, but he was perfectly entitled to defend his position the way he did.
It's terrible that it even has to be argued though, in what is a blatant attempt at assault with a deadly weapon. Some people are calling for a ban on the driver. I think that is the very least that should happen. A prison sentence wouldn't be unwarranted. There is no excuse for driving like that, regardless of what they think the cyclist should be doing. Stuff like this needs to be dealt with properly. It's a miracle no one was hurt.
I've seen prison sentences for less bad examples of dangerous driving.
Good luck, I tried reporting something as bad to the police six weeks ago still no response.
I'm not sure we even have any police anymore, some ****s keep voting Tory and the budgets get cut.
[quote=thegreatape ]I've seen prison sentences for less bad examples of dangerous driving.
any that involved cyclists? (as the victim rather than the perpetrator)
No, although if that ^ was dealt with by our Sheriff I would expect that driver to get one as well. But he is particularly intolerant of behaviour like that.
It will be interesting to see what happens with this one. With a few of these you think that the driver was careless and got caught out. But this was incredible and as scary as it gets. Its an attack, nothing accidental.
They are also clearly media savvy as they have a twitter feed full of the usual platitudes but they are just fuelling the fire.
It's never going to happen, but part of me wishes the DSA would go through all those comments and suspend the licence of all those who blame the cyclist/defend the driver until they've had some sort of intensive empathy training.
wilburt - Member
Good luck, I tried reporting something as bad to the police six weeks ago still no response.
I reported something similar to my local police and had a response the same day but it said without camera footage or a police witness they could do nothing.
That incident plus being deliberately run off the road by a sainsbury's hgv (which luckily only resulted in a smashed mirror) made me buy a dashcam.
I take that back. They have now gone into full lock down mode and have closed their twitter and Facebook accounts. It's difficult to know if that works nowadays as what they have done is closed off their channels for responding sensibly.They are also clearly media savvy as they have a twitter feed full of the usual platitudes but they are just fuelling the fire.
It's not going to prevent the discussion or their name being used anywhere. Trial by internet isn't funny but is unavoidable at the moment. This stuff is good to watch in case a similar thing happens that you have to deal with at your company but I'm not convinced that trying to hide works.
I did message the company last night with a link to the video asking what it's all about. Their response was that the driver has been dealt with accordingly...whatever that means.
I really struggle to keep my calm when reading the comnents of the motorists saying things like ' "should of killed him ( the cyclist), I'd have run him over, death to cyclists, I'd have stopped the van and beaten the shit out of him....
It doesn't seem to matter how many times you try and explain the cyclists position on the road in the eyes of the MAJORITY of motorists we, as cyclists, are scum.
As said above, the police should go through every 'cyclist hate comment' and force a refresher course on the drivers.
The police need to investigate and prosecute this. The company will have just told him off. If they had done the right thing and suspended the worker before passing the matter on to the police they wouldn't have closed their Facebook and twitter accounts as they could have said something to that effect on twitter.
Any idea if anyone officially reported this to the police?
While typically, the victim is required to make a complaint to the police, am I right in thinking that if they choose to, the police can pursue something like this on their own?
If it happened where I, I'd imagine it would be drug and alcohol test, dismissed for gross misconduct and then information passed to the police.
It had been retweeted to a couple of police twitter accounts before their account was closed.Any idea if anyone officially reported this to the police?
edit: and I now see one reason why you shouldn't close regular channels. People have taken to the company Google review page to vent. I'm sure they can get that cleaned up in the end but it's going to be way more difficult that just deleting a bunch of posts once this has quietened down.
Why do so many people think it's ok to vent at the company in these situations ?
There are probably lots of other people who depend on that company for their livelihoods, ruining the company image due to actions of one person is rediculous.
Pass judgement on that individual by all means, but give the company chance to deal with it first before bad mouthing them all over the place.
that's awesome driving.
Not surprising, since plenty of tradesmen are thick, aggressive and have little patience.easy now, that's like saying all white collars are liberals.
you are right but the problem here is that the company have closed the standard ways of communicating so it is now spilling over. When driving a company van you are the company and the company has to respond. U don't think anyone thinks Its the companies fault or that they condone itPass judgement on that individual by all means, but give the company chance to deal with it first before bad mouthing them all over the place.
Pass judgement on that individual by all means, but give the company chance to deal with it first before bad mouthing them all over the place.
But all they've said is "we've dealt with it" and closed all their social media accounts.
If they said "he's been sacked and we reported it to the police" then that would be different.
had been retweeted to a couple of police twitter accounts before their account was closed.
Yep, with the Met saying it was a Sussex area and Sussex police saying it was in a Met area.
hile typically, the victim is required to make a complaint to the police, am I right in thinking that if they choose to, the police can pursue something like this on their own
I think so. Obviously a case is easier to prosecute with the support of the victim, but it's "the crown vs the alleged offender" not "the victim vs the offender"
I don't for one miute think a companies reputation should be bought down by the actions of one man. I don't think Vidette have done themselves any favours by not responding.
Seems like a knee jerk reaction from the company to close twitter etc, and interesting to see how people have moved to google in response to that.
I'm not surprised the company have not said what is being done - that is there business; and whatever they decided to do there would be someone that didn't think it was a strong enough response.
I've found that I'm experiencing more and more angry behavior from car drivers, and after seeing this, I'm going to invest in a camera system for the road bike.
[i]Pass judgement on that individual by all means, but give the company chance to deal with it first before bad mouthing them all over the place.[/i]
But so often one hears the anodyne 'Lessons have been learned'. This time one can hope that lessons really have been learned, and the storm has made its way to director level. Obviously I've no idea of the size of the company involved.
It worked for that taxi co, and the caravan place, didn't it. And I believe it worked in a way that polite complaint would never have.
[quote=LittleNose ]I'm not surprised the company have not said what is being done - that is there business; and whatever they decided to do there would be someone that didn't think it was a strong enough response.
Except that the [b]miniumum[/b] appropriate response in this situation would be to immediately suspend the driver. If they had done so and reported as such on social media that would calm most people. Saying something completely bland and meaningless and closing their accounts is just fuelling it - because the assumption is that the driver hasn't been appropriately disciplined. So there are two alternatives here - either they haven't taken it seriously enough (or even think the driver was justified), or they're completely incompetent at social media. Clearly being incompetent at social media isn't a good reason to attack a company, but until they clear it up plenty of people are going to assume it's actually the former.
Dear Lord 🙄
from the Indy comments about the article.
If you are going to "assert the road" then you should bloody well pay something towards the nuisance you cause. If cyclists had to have some sort of registration then this idiot could have been brought to book rather than getting away with deliberately provocative riding. This was obviously a setup by some lycra clad Nazi out to reinforce the point that all motorists are evil.
They've had to close their accounts or ignore it all as it has gone viral so imagine they can't deal with it as a small company.
You don't need the victim to report that to the police as there is clear CCTV for careless driving and no it is attempted murder like so many people want to think it is FFS!
Sad thing is people lose their jobs and small business end up closing down over something like this depending on how it is dealt with. Never acceptable but people make all kind of poor decisions when under pressures for whatever reason. It certainly doesn't justify a prison sentence!
Except that the miniumum appropriate response in this situation would be to immediately suspend the driver. If they had done so and reported as such on social media that would calm most people. Saying something completely bland and meaningless and closing their accounts is just fuelling it - because the assumption is that the driver hasn't been appropriately disciplined. So there are two alternatives here - either they haven't taken it seriously enough (or even think the driver was justified), or they're completely incompetent at social media. Clearly being incompetent at social media isn't a good reason to attack a company, but until they clear it up plenty of people are going to assume it's actually the former.
Most small/medium sized businesses are shit at social media.
Larger ones usually have some sort of round the clock monitoring from people who have a degree in Marketing so they're (usually) more savvy but social media is a strange tool and certainly Twitter puts the power very firmly in the hands of the complainant rather than the company.
Couple that with the fact that the tweeter is probably just one of the builders or maybe the girl on reception who books the jobs in and takes the phone calls and you can see how easily they'd get overwhelmed by this. Yes, it's a shit response and the driving is nothing short of assault but I'm willing to bet the company themselves didn't even have a social media policy in place.
They've just had time for a basic response to Tweet 1 before it's been retweeted 50 times, picked up by a newspaper, commented on by another several hundred people and then bang, it's national news! Helped of course by the fact that it's the newspapers favourite clickbait: cyclist vs driver, war on the roads. Guaranteed to bring every swivel-eyed loon who really shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised straight to their keyboard.
[quote=Munqe-chick ]You don't need the victim to report that to the police as there is clear CCTV for careless driving and no it is attempted murder like so many people want to think it is FFS!
Sad thing is people lose their jobs and small business end up closing down over something like this depending on how it is dealt with. Never acceptable but people make all kind of poor decisions when under pressures for whatever reason. It certainly doesn't justify a prison sentence!
It is certainly assault, for which you can get a prison sentence - I'm not sure why you think deliberately driving at somebody wouldn't justify that. Is it the driver you think made a poor decision under pressure? Because that was somewhat more than a poor decision.
As for the effect on the company, it's quite simple for them. Sack the driver, reopen their media channels and announce on those (and elsewhere) that they've sacked him. It's going still going to be a bit awkward for them on social media for a while, but they'll get support for doing the right thing and any negative effects will go away. That's the best solution for them, anything else will cause them pain. Given that doesn't appear to be the course they're taking, then either they're really bad at PR, the driver is high up in the company (or has something on the boss), or those high up in the company have similarly bad attitudes to driving.
edit: for crazy-legs' cross post - I'm sure you're right about the way they operate social media in normal times, but it's not terribly difficult - if those in charge don't know what to do with social media then they should find somebody who does (just pick anybody under 25) and follow the course I've outlined above. It's really not rocket surgery finding a way to respond to this - though it is of course dependent on them actually taking the driving incident seriously.
theres no excusing the drivers actions, but that video clip is suspiciously short. I wonder what happened before the final scene....
[img] 
:large[/img]
Getting the sack is a good start, now we just need a meaningful prosecution from the police, CPS and a court of law.
independent have published the incident
that video clip is suspiciously short. I wonder what happened before the final scene....
almost certainly on a twisty road the cyclist was taking a 'positive' position to prevent a close pass.
The sad thing for me based on comments to the video is that people still don't understand / accept why that positive positioning is a safety thing rather than being annoying. And also now that a driver has lost his job as a result then I can imagine it will turn those types even further against cyclists.
They've had to close their accounts or ignore it all as it has gone viral so imagine they can't deal with it as a small company.
Exactly. Small companies just aren't set up to deal with the volume of email/tweets/messages this would have generated.
They shut the shop up as they had no idea what else to do, they don't have policies in place for this sort of thing like big companies do.
Everyone gets their pitchforks out and is so keen to "get involved" at least one person on this thread has personally emailed the company, and how many thousands of other people did the same thing ?
I can't understand why anyone would do that personally, what will it achieve? They are already aware of what's happened obviously, and why does someone not involved think they are due any kind of response anyway ?
Just let them deal with it, and make a general statement once they have it all sorted.
I know that method isn't pitchfork friendly, but people's livelihoods are on the line, so calm down and step away from the keyboard.
"near miss" ****ing ****s deserve everything they are getting
How cool was the cyclist though 😯
Just dropped back on the road as if he had swerved round a puddle. He looked like he was just going to carry on and not react at all. !
"near miss" * * deserve everything they are getting
Even as I was reading it, I knew there would be complaint on here about those two words within the first few posts.
Poor choice of phrase in my opinion. But he's done the right thing and sacked the bloke.
Seems like a very constructive response from the company.
Seems like a very constructive response from the company.
Agreed.
People will find something to not be happy about though.
Takes a lot longer to put a pitchfork away, than it does to get it out 😆
Poor choice of phrase in my opinion.
Trivializing spin more like. We've all have "near misses" every time we ride, how often has someone deliberately side swiped you ?
He won't go to prison for that, yes technically you CAN get 5 years for an ABH but if you were going to day it common assault max 6 months in Mags court. You won't get a common assault charge out of that. Careless driving and a no doubt a driver improvement scheme. Education not punishment.
At least the MD has sent a response no which I think fair play to him is very reasonable.
I think seems the correct response from the company now. Still scary how many loonies think cyclists deserve what's coming to them!
agreed. you see, I think the company ARE actually quite switched on at social media. I doubt that response was written by the MD. It's a little too complete and a little too well done. Full marks to them and whoever they gave the situation to manage to.I think seems the correct response from the company now
Whoever was driving the van should still be prosecuted, whatever he was going through but im sure that line was put in to reduce the desire from the public for that
Skilz
Trivializing spin more like.
Do you need a hand putting the pitchfork away?
Whilst these days I'm a slightly pompous middle age fella. There was a time as a young man given the right circumstances I could have done what this driver did.
I think the correct punishment for me, to bring me back in line would be loosing my job and probably my licence to drive for a couple of years.
[quote=Munqe-chick ]You won't get a common assault charge out of that. Careless driving and a no doubt a driver improvement scheme. Education not punishment.
It appears to meet all the required criteria for assault, with decent evidence. Is that just because driving offences are trivialised? Careless driving for deliberately driving into a vulnerable road user - seriously?
Perfect response from the company - I'm pleased to see that, and clearly the delay was simply to get it right, so I'll retract any criticism (and I'm certainly not going to get hung up on the wording).
...and lo and behold their social media is active again, so they've done exactly what I suggested above, just been a little slow about it, but that's excusable.
I always ask myself how would my reaction be to such an assault/impact with a vehicle if instead of 'a cyclist', it was a horse or a pedestrian. A child?
Shrug it off? 'Near miss'? A suspicious part of me imagines this incident to increase (at least with some) the impression that cyclists are somehow less vulnerable than other (non-driving) road-users. I mean, they just bounce off and carry on riding... (sarcasm of course).
Driver needs hauling up under suspicion of assault/intent to do bodily harm or worse.
I mean, they just bounce off and carry on riding... (sarcasm of course).
Although in this case, due to luck or possibly massive skillz, that's an accurate description of what happened.
I have had this happen to me , twice . Both times vans , once on a narrow country lane , and I was going over 20 as it was downhill. Held driver up for maybe 30 seconds. As we passed a wider passing point he charged past and halfway down swung in to the nearside. Like the guy in the video , I had enough rooom to ride away from the lWB transit.
second time was on the bridge near my house, there is a shared use footpath and a shithead in a Vito tried to force me onto it, after pulling alongside and screaming abuse at me he then yanked the wheel left and aiming at the kerb / me. Emergency stop saved me from dropping it , no room to bunnyhop onto the pavement as the shared footpath is narrow and usuallu congested with families with kids,pushchairs and often fishermen .
It cant see how its not aggreveated assult with a motor vehicle , if there is such a thing. No difference in my mind to me dropping an anvil off a tall building, or a box of kitchen knives. Also breaches the 1.5m pass rule , so as minimum he should be done for that, but he needs a holiay from driving , points , a fine of £1000, and take a re-test before being allowed behind the wheel again.
Klunk - Member
Poor choice of phrase in my opinion.
Trivializing spin more like. We've all have "near misses" every time we ride, how often has someone deliberately side swiped you ?
Are you suggesting that's not a brilliant response from what is, ultimately, a small builders firm? I'm seriously impressed with that, given the context.
Whilst I'm sure the professionally offended will still want to pick holes with it, I can't see how you could ask for a better response and any further/deeper action is for the police to handle.
We don't have aggravated assault and the 1.5m is nothing in the UK. Just back from a week in tenerife where it is law very interesting how they drove out there because of this law.
Ok i stand corrected it was a near miss, no intent by the driver at all he we just moving over to avoid the oncoming car. 🙄
It cant see how its not aggreveated assult with a motor vehicle , if there is such a thing.
Unfortunately it isn't. But assault is. You commit assault if you cause someone to believe that they about to suffer "the immediate infliction of unlawful force."
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_against_the_person/#a07
Also breaches the 1.5m pass rule
Unfortunately that's not a hard and fast rule either. It might come under careless/dangerous driving depending on the individual case (this one would be dangerous IMO, as the "standard of driving falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver and it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous."
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/#a29
From that same link, (I've picked out some highlights)
The following examples of circumstances that are likely to be characterised as dangerous driving are derived from decided cases and the SGC Definitive Guideline-failing to have a proper and safe regard for vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motorcyclists, horse riders, the elderly and pedestrians or when in the vicinity of a pedestrian crossing, hospital, school or residential home;
-aggressive driving, such as sudden lane changes, cutting into a line of vehicles or driving much too close to the vehicle in front;
-overtaking which could not have been carried out safely;
-a brief but obvious danger arising from a seriously dangerous manoeuvre. This covers situations where a driver has made a mistake or an error of judgement that was so substantial that it caused the driving to be dangerous even for only a short time.
Edit: as others are saying, good response by the owner. If I was running the company I wouldn't want that driver representing me.
^ Klunk
He's been sacked, they are looking into improving standards and they have told everybody about it. At what point do you cut the guy who owns the business a bit of slack for the (appalling) actions of one of his employees driving one of his vehicles?
Would it be so hard to take the time to commend him for the action he has taken, rather than the choice of words on a social post?
That's a well constructed response, and it's good to see the MD state that “this experience has made me realise that I can do something to help reduce this sort of behaviour on our roads”. But why has he only realised that now, and why did he not appreciate it in response to previous complaints back in [url= https://twitter.com/phil_66/status/496994378939138048 ]2014[/url] and [url= https://twitter.com/BigJP78/status/639447684001189888 ]2015[/url]?
Their [url= https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04791380/filing-history ]most recent accounts[/url] at Companies House show assets of around £1 million, so this isn't just some hick business. An organisation that employs drivers has a responsibility to ensure that those drivers are made categorically aware from day one that they must drive safely and respectfully. If this driver's mind was 'all over the place' such that he wasn't safe to drive he shouldn't have been driving. The majority of the culpability here sits with the driver, who should be prosecuted, but if the management of the company has not established systems and a culture to ensure that all drivers are aware of the need to drive within the spirit as well as the letter of the law then the directors must share a portion of that culpability. It is a failure of corporate governance to wait until there's a flare-up on social media to decide that the time has come to make it clear to your employees that they mustn't try to kill people.
He's been sacked,
big whoop, chances are he was a goner anyway once he lost his license.
I commend MD for extracting an apology from the driver, I presume for bring a shit storm down upon the company and then getting a promise never to repeat it, I'm guessing for another company 😆
Ok i stand corrected it was a near miss, no intent by the driver at all he we just moving over to avoid the oncoming car 🙄 .
You can roll your eyes all you want. But he's been sacked, and the MD has responded in pretty much the best way anyone could expect.
Other than those two words, what else don't you agree with in the MD's statement.
big whoop, chances are he was a goner anyway once he lost his license.
But the MD has been proactive, and sacked him in advance of any other punishement.
What he have needed to do for you to approve, execute him live on Facebook ffs.
What he have needed to do for you to approve, execute him live on Facebook ffs.
nothing so dramatic, a simple statement, "This kind of behaviour has no place in our company, the person responsible has be released with immediate effect and his/her details have be passed to the Surrey Police pending any investigation in which we will give all available assistance" etc etc.
Let's get him jailed !!
That's pretty much what he did isn't it? Apart from stating that he'd given the details to the police, but that's an irrelevance.
Let's get him jailed !!
only after we've executed him.
That's pretty much what he did isn't it?
Well apart from describing it as a "near miss", extracting and apology for doing it in a company van, making excuses by proxy, sending his drivers on awareness courses so that they know deliberately ramming cyclist off the road in your van is very very bad and wrong.
[quote=klunk] ... blah ... not good enough...etc etc etc
As I said earlier... you seem to having problems putting your pitchfork away.
Would you like some help 🙄
The reaction to this (via social media) has highlighted the wealth of malice born from ignorance of the Highway Code/cycling in general. Not to mention the many comments from both motorists and self-avowed 'cyclists' who have taken issue with the rider's primary positioning. Complete and total ignorance/projected arrogance/hostility feeds an irrational hatred of any cyclist who appears not to be following the random 'rules' that these morons have invented in their tiny heads.
Here is an [url= https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1882114922032410&id=1527381920839047 ]example[/url] of what concerns me:
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So any riders in the Newcastle area please be wary of Volkswagen BD53 UDP. The driver (by his own admission) projects his own malice on any cyclist taking primary.
That Anthony Hollings chap sounds like a lovely fella - threatening other legal users of the Public Highway.
