[Closed] Damaged bike, fair or unfair treatment? Please advise

Just for added colour how much did you pay them to wrap the bike up and hand over to the courier? i.e. not what you paid all up but what did you pay them in addition to the cost of the courier to them? It would have to be a lot to run the risk of finding yourself as the fall guy middlemen in the centre of something like this.

Op, I'm guessing you have created this account to keep your main one clear. So I'm guessing you know this thread will get messy unfortunately.

My advice? Life is too short, chalk it up to(expensive) experience and move on.

Spring is here. See if the forks hold air, remedy if not and enjoy riding the bike.

Good luck whatever decision you go with though.

Did your middleman take pics to prove the condition of the bike? Or is it just his say so?

Thos sounds like a mighty complex train of events to buy a bike, with too many potential blamees. Small claims would probably require photo evidence of undamaged condition before boxing to stand any chance of success.

Thanks all for taking the time to read that and give your opinions, all are welcome. I have open ears to all perspectives.

The collector (my agent) paid £15 to the shop to box it up.

The undamaged state is the collectors and sellers say so, the seller has his photos from the listing.

too right its complicated, it was a great deal and I knew I could secure a trustworthy agent in that part of the country and I believed in the hype of the shop who has a great reputation and had faith in them.

I accept everyone can make mistakes, which is what they actually told me yesterday, they were sorry and apologised and said they will make it right, it was a silly mistake. but then the higer ups got involved and they have completely backtracked and deny claiming liability as it was all over the phone with the shop manager and workshop manager so I have no proof now.

I actually made this account the other day cos I was looking for a new bike and I wanted to post a wanted ad, lol. so this is my only account I'm afraid on here.

Pictures for those who are intrigued

The damage to the stanchion:
https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW https://ibb.co/nQkDsqW

This is how it came packed in the box with the rear wheel next to the bare stanchion with cassette resting against the stanchion
https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d
https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d https://ibb.co/nkSmv2d

This shows the indentation of the bare cassette on the foam of the down tube, and if we follow that imprinted curve of the cassette where do the rest of the teeth lie, that's right, on top of the exposed stanchion
https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc https://ibb.co/1T7NpMc

For what it's worth op, you are probably totally correct in that the poor packaging caused the damage...

My reply about moving on is just addressing the reality that you are likely to lose a lot of time and incur a lot of stress and likely still be at square one with the issue.

I say this as it's a conclusion I've come to in life these days. Choose the fights you can win as it were.

I'd look at attempting to repair the forks (it likely can be done with some patience, googling and luck) and enjoy riding the bike. It'll be all the sweeter after the stress it's caused mate.

Just my holistic opinion as it were.lol

Thanks Poopscoops I get you man,

I cant waste a lot of time stressing about this, you are right. I just cant afford to waste money at the moment, It was a long and deliberate process selecting this bike.

What gets my goat and really riles me up so badly is just that the managers in the shop first were so caring considerate and helpful and wanted to fix what they admitted was their mistake, but the next day area manager/head office or whatever flipped that around on its head. Told me no one said that.

Yeah sure one of the best voted bike shops in the UK my a*rse.

Its the outright deception from someone that I thought could be trusted that stabs me deep bro, lol.

Days before I bought the bike I was in regular contact with multiple people in the shop in anticipation of my purchase and just making sure everything they needed me to do would be done to make it easy on their end.

I was so grateful to them at the time. I remember the workshop chap before I had even bought the bike once mentioning to me about artisanal coffee, so I found a coffee shop in their neighbourhood and have emailed it and was arranging to have some artisanal beans to be delivered to them as a thank you for their efforts.

Arent I a ****ing tw*t

^^No you aren't mate.

You've been unlucky though that's for sure.

Chances are that the guy/s that apologised have had a right royal chewing out from the guy you later spoke to. I bet they are almost as p****d off as you are.

Reality is, unless you can go over that guys head and perhaps find someone in the organisation that is willing to help out,out of good will more than anything.... I reckon you'll have an uphill fight unfortunately.

That said, in the morning you will likely get some other takes on the situation which might be totally different to mine and just as valid.👍

You sound like you have sound and wise advice in this matter, much appreciated. I am not here to sh*ft someone over or get more than what is my due. When they offered to replace the damaged fork I even suggested at the time they just pick up a pre-owned one from these forums, I wasn't fussy about the brand as long as it was equivalent performance and market position. I only asked for this as they brought up the offer of a replacement fork.

So what you said about finding someone higher up, is it malicious or unethical of me to mention who the shop is or who the individuals are that I am dealing with in the hope that someone can point me to someone who might be able to do something?

So far I am attempting to maintain their anonymity as I believe it is the correct thing to do but then I wonder why? I am not making spurious accusations, I am simply stating irrefutable facts and postulating the hypothetical consequences of those facts.

There are far wiser and more retailer savvy guys on here than me bud.lol

I wouldn't mention names for sure. I would also hold off mentioning the retailer too.... Though I'm willing to bet than some of the guys on here will be able to guess who they are anyway.

See what posts appear on here later. This is a very passionate and "lively" forum. You are sure to get a good cross section of views and potential advice that's for sure!

Just don't take any negative views personally. A lot of very knowledgeable guys and gals on here and some very strong personalities to match...😉

I sympathize - what a shitty situation.

Do you have any evidence of you paying the bike shop, or anything that describes what they were supposed to be doing? A receipt that says "packing of bike for transit"?

Without something like that, I would imagine that this is going to be a bit of a dead end, and so I would echo Poopscoop's advice above. If you DID have the above, I don't think it's inconceivable that you could enter a small claim - technically the goods/services they provided were not fit for purpose.

One could argue that you'd need evidence that the damage wasn't there previously, but equally you could argue that the bike shop should have flagged that the bike was damaged prior to them packing it.

I pity the guy responsible - he's likely had a massive bollocking off his boss. However, it's not an inconceivable situation that a mechanic accidentally damages a bike in the course of some low-value service. If he'd dinged the stanchion with a spanner or something whist fitting a new crank.... would the boss be adopting this same approach?

Either way - sounds like they've told you to jog-on already, I don't see a downside in naming and shaming.

I would just go ahead with a "letter before action" prior to making a fast track claim ( small claims) and see what their response is to that. Often people bluster until the prospect of court action becomes real. Letter before action costs you nothing, small claims very little. YOu have two people prepared to say they did the damage, it will cost them more to defend the claim than to off you something in recompense

There are good on line guides to making a claim and in edinburgh ( so I guess other places) a CAB unit dedicated to this sort of thing

If I were contracted to pack and ship a bike, I'd be going over it in the presence of the shipper (or his agent in this case) and noting any damage ( you know, like every single car hire place does, and like the garage where I take my car has started doing). That way if the receiver claims damage I have the shippers signature that it existed before I got it. Since they didn't do that, and they didn't pack it properly (please say you got pictures of the wheel before you took it out of the box!) I don't see how they can hope to get away with it. Get a note from the seller detailing any damage, one from the 'agent' and ask them to pony up any notes detailing the damage they have from before they packed it. When they can't produce it, tell them what you are willing to settle for.

Your leverage is a small claim, evidence of your helpers is admissible there, so you don't have no or poor evidence as some seem to imply.

It depends if you CBA going down that route. The shop manager is playing hardball (probably been there before, sounds like a shitshow).

He'll probably do **** all until claim papers arrive tho.

As mentioned it’s shitty but I’d let it roll chalk it up.

But slate the shop online at every given opportunity so folks know who they’re dealing with.

Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution...

Did you record the original conversation with the bike shop?
I have an app installed on my mobile that records calls after almost being ripped off by a internet company.

It records all calls and deletes them after after a set time. You can save important calls directly to Dropbox or other cloud based service.

As this post is only 8 hours old to date, I personally wouldn't go naming & shaming just yet; that's a card you can potentially play later down the line if you want/need to.

Options then are:

I would just go ahead with a “letter before action” prior to making a fast track claim ( small claims) and see what their response is to that

and/or

Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution…

Be polite, be reasonable, be assertive, don't be a dick, be relentless until it's clear whether or not you're getting anywhere. Then, if you've nothing to loose, name and shame is fair game.

I agree it’s shit. Whatever you do - DO NOT NAME AND SHAME! It could affect your case. Letter before action as stated already be prepared for the case and then move forward after the findings

So it looks like a well used bike from the photos and was collected by someone who isn’t bike savvy? What evidence (photographic) do you have that it wasn’t already damaged?

If I was the bike shop I would be telling you to do one, they can’t accept blame for the the condition of a used bike they didn’t supply. Much like they cannot accept blame based on yours and a mates say so! With that in mind I think you need to suck it up yourself. Personally I would always drive to collect a used bike myself. It’s never worth it nowadays in a world of cheap crap couriers, pinched kit etc. If it’s too far to drive there will always be another one in the future

Dave at RSF can replace fork stantions if you are looking for a simpler solution…

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Think it's only £50-75 or so too.

£15 to get involved in that unholy mess of 5 parties (seller, your mate, them, courier, you) to transport a 2nd hand item that had been unseen by the final purchaser until it has passed through 3 different hands. What were they thinking? There is a reason people say pick up only on bikes - to avoid getting embroiled in this kind of thing. To put yourself in that position for the cost of a puncture repair was a very dubious decision. Especially if they are doing it for someone who live the other side of the country and it's not part of a continued relationship with a valued customer.

So it looks like a well used bike from the photos and was collected by someone who isn’t bike savvy? What evidence (photographic) do you have that it wasn’t already damaged?

If I was the bike shop I would be telling you to do one, they can’t accept blame for the the condition of a used bike they didn’t supply.

pretty much this. but if it had come through my shop I'd have pointed out all the damage prior to boxing.

From looking at the photo it's not very serious damage to the stanchion. I'd go as far as to say cosmetic only, although obviously I haven't seen it in the flesh/run a finger over it. It's also evident that it's quite a well used bike, so you shouldn't be worrying about cosmetic damage.
Yes, the shop screwed up by not packing it well enough. For £15 they evidently got someone not very experienced at boxing bikes up to do it. Would I expect them to give me a new pair of forks? No chance.
As others have said, it's just one of those things you have to suck up, try to forget about and move on.

 There is a reason people say pick up only on bikes – to avoid getting embroiled in this kind of thing. 

If I say pick up only I stick to that, regardless of how much a potential buyer begs and pleads. For a shop to pac the bike up for £15 !!! I bet they'll never do that again.
But personally I'd suck it up and get riding. If the forks hold air I wouldn't even bother with a fix. Ride them for a bit and see how they go 👍

Doesn't look too bad, tbh. I've sanded down worse than that and the forks have carried on happily for years.

Strange behavior by the manager though. Think I'd at least expect my £15 back. Name and shame, then move on I would say.

now i've looked at the photos of the damage, I'd not even be getting the stanchions replaced. I'd just get on with riding it and chalking it down to a poor decision to get a stranger to pack up a bike for £15.

If the forks hold air I wouldn’t even bother with a fix. Ride them for a bit and see how they go 👍

Errr, just to correct you (as I can't help it), it won't be air that they struggle to hold. Lower leg oil... may seep out and also the scratch may damage the dust seals + foam o-rings.

If any oil does seep out or you get some additional stiction, Could just get some very fine sandpaper, remove any edges and put some clear coat on the sanded bit, will last for years.

Proposal: fix/repair the stanchions as good as possible.
Important to get rid of sharp edges and stuff.

And then go on biking. Those damages hurt your sould right now. But the damage will be no problem for the fork.
One crash and the fork will have such damages. Don't see any reason why you can't use the fork for the years to come.

And yes - the whole story is sad.
But have fun und in a year you will laugh about the tiny damage.

OP. I pride myself on thinking up ridiculously complex, convoluted plans for getting stuff done.....

BUT this one you've got has SNAFU written all over it. I can't imagine why on earth the bike shop agreed to all that work and risk for 15 quid.

Yeah, seems like a lot of work & risk for £15. Probably getting on for 30 mins work by the time you've got a suitable box, disassembled the bike, stuck some (not enough) packaging around it & boxed it up.

And while it probably was the cassette that did the damage, without before pics I doubt there is much that can be done.

Personally, I'd chalk it up to experience & probably give the stanchion a very light sand to remove any burrs on the scratches before just getting on with riding it.
If there is obviously an issue with fork performance after a month or two of riding, then perhaps consider a stanchion replacement (as above).

Errr, just to correct you (as I can’t help it), it won’t be air that they struggle to hold. 

Of course, back to school for me. 😳😳

Massive thank you and props to each and everyone of you who is contributing to this thread I am so grateful for all the input and advice. It is helping me come to terms with it, lol and become clearer in my head what is fair course of action and expectation.

Things have gotten a little out of hand already, my barrister has weighed in this morning and the shop are aware. Problem that is presented to the shop now is that if they claim no culpability then the liability falls on my agent who procured and delivered the bike to the shop, who of course will then proceed to seek damages from the shop for loss against him if I come after him now because he absolutely categorically maintains the fork was undamaged. phew.

I just believe people should take responsibility for their actions. its not about me getting anything, or cost to them.

In line with what some of you have said, just ride it and suck it up. I have been off the bike and not touched it at the advice of the shop manager who called up to originally apologise and accept their mistake and offer a solution, he said don't use it until we get this sorted. But now I have arranged a local bike shop to give the fork an inspection and tell me how little or how significantly this will affect the fork.

IF they say the saem just suck it up and use it man no issues there, then I uess ill just chalk it up to experience and join the camp on here that says, scratch? just suck it up and use it dude!

Thanks guys, will keep this post updated especially with the barrister and the agent now getting involved actively, keep your thoughts coming

my barrister

A barrister?

Well that escalated quickly.

I hope he/she is a QC for such a big case!

my barrister has weighed in

Things have gotten a little out of hand already

Haven't they just ... 🙄

FFS! A Barrister?? What's the bill for that going to be like ... how many brand new forks do you think you'd have been able to afford instead!

A barrister?

Well that escalated quickly.

How so? He probably needed a coffee to get through this ordeal.

Folks never ceasing to amaze, what a jolly world we live in.

I just cant afford to waste money at the moment

especially with the barrister and the agent now getting involved

Oh it might be on judge Judy 🙂 🙂

Is this a parody thread of some meme I've missed?

Apparently not, although it could produce a future meme.

Having seen the picture - I'd just be getting on with it. It's really not serious, and spending more time stressing and arguing about something so minor won't benefit you

Oh dear. Been there, done this. Considered going legal over someone selling me a broken part as a new old stock one. It cost twenty quid! It was the principal I told myself and anyone who would listen. Some serious mockery on another forum helped me to get some perspective.

Honestly those scratches look like they could possibly be polished out, or the stanchion replaced in the worst case.

Goodness me, need to take a long hard look I would suggest. It’s nothing to do with the ‘principle’ I can’t see how anyone could prove those marks were not there before other than ‘say so’

Judging by the use of the bike in thother pictures you bought something that had been well used. Yes I’d be miffed, hence the reason you would go and view/purchase with your own eyes. Certainly don’t send a mate who knows nothing about bikes! Then pay a shop £15!!!! What could possibly go wrong.

I’m genuinely flabbergasted

Why keep using the term "agent"? Someone who knows little about bikes will now categorically state, potentially in a court of law, that those scratches were not there as the bike went into the box.

£15 for dismantling and packing in a box supplied by them and using packing supplied by them?

Agent is legalese for someone acting in your behalf.

Barrister!? - for forks sake! 🙂

That poor old shop is never going to do anybody else a £15 favour.

How else did they think that this may turn out?
They are a bicycle shop not a 2nd hand packing joint ffs.

And as for the OP now turning on his agent.

I've heard it all now.

I was so grateful to them at the time. I remember the workshop chap before I had even bought the bike once mentioning to me about artisanal coffee, so I found a coffee shop in their neighbourhood and have emailed it and was arranging to have some artisanal beans to be delivered to them as a thank you for their efforts.

...this thread just has to be a ruddy wind up!

That poor old shop is never going to do anybody else a £15 favour

To be fair, you've got to be a bit of a moron to pack a cassette against the fork like that - or even against a bit of paintwork!
But yeah, pick up only, to me, means I drive there and pick it up.

As soon as I sent that I realised that it would comeback to bite me in the derriere.
Yes it sounds crazy on one hand complaining about can't afford, then next paragraph mentioning barrister.
Without going into detail I am saying I'm very fortunate and grateful to be receiving the assistance the way I am from all the people who are involved. Which includes all you beautiful people too.

@munkiemagik.

Take it easy on the spliffs mate. You are now starting to sound spaced out!

Spliffs ?? Pass them round eh 😉

Who is your agent and what sort of agent is he? I thought you meant you’d sent a mate who lived locally to pick it up for you but obviously not if you’re going legal on him! Did you pay someone to pick the bike up as well as pay the shop? Smashing thread either way OP, nice one.

Don't get done, get Dom!

I'm also intrigued by who the agent was as you gave your impression your mate was picking the bike up?

Given the forks look fine, and that you saved some money getting a bike cheaper as it was pick up only (which is great for you as you knew an agent to collect) then you should be about where you are at money wise on what it's worth?

What's the bike and what did you pay for it out of interest?

Problem that is presented to the shop now is that if they claim no culpability then the liability falls on my agent

Get a new Barrister then, that is a pile of crock.

I wouldn't even have typed the post for that damage BTW.

Who is your agent and what sort of agent is he?

I’m also intrigued by who the agent was as you gave your impression your mate was picking the bike up?

Agent is legalese for someone acting in your behalf.

Surreal.

Sorry for the confusion.
When I say agent I do mean someone known to me to conduct the transaction on my behalf according to my instructions. And then under my instruction drop it off to the bike shop.

And to clear the other matter, I'm not turning on him. He is supporting me in this matter saying he had clear instruction to check the sliding suspension parts for scratches and if all ok to pay the seller. The bit about him being chased was just a proverbial. If shop are saying this not them, then that's implying the blame lies with him.

And judging from most people's reactions it does seem like it's going to be a pretty non event. As I've said I am getting a bike shop to look at it. And if they like most here say that it's ok. I'm ok with that.

But it's helped to hear everyone's opinion to make me see things from a perspective I may not have considered before. The scratches were definitely twenty times bigger when I first opened the box. They seem to have shrunk now! Hahaha
Thank you

What’s the bike

A rum-pole?

I haven't ever had a full sus bike like this before. And I don't know the consequences of this damage. All I know is that everyone always makes a big song and dance about making sure stanchions are damage free. So when it came with those scratches having been told it was unmarked, I freaked.

It’s a canyon, from the stem cap it would seem. Guessing a fairly old one as it has some fairly old fox forks and shocks and some old hope brakes. No way you could prove that damage wasn’t there. Unless your ‘agent’ had time stamped pictures and an appraisal. Who’s to say the wheel wasn’t swapped around in the box when the damage was found?

This completely stinks, please never buy anything used from me!

This is great. I was going to suggest moving on but I’m too late.

Frustrating, for sure, but it seems a little over the top for a second hand bike

@ the op, you do realise legally your 'agent' will be liable for this in the absence of contracts and/or some very specific terms which are missing (verbal or written) with the shop (packer/shipper) and original seller.

The assumed liability is with you then your agent and any legal proceedings would soon establish that.

Be careful, the shop will have recourse against loss of reputation however should naming and shaming occur.

@munkiemagik

Hello again bud. Told you this was a lively forum! Lol

As I said though, don't take it personal. This forum is a great resource for biking and life in general actually.

Hopefully all this gets resolved quickly before the weather really improves.👍

Oh, it's the law on here.... Once the bike is all built up you must post some pictures of it in a dedicated thread...

Be warned though... Saddle alignment, brake hose/cable length will all be critiqued...and that's before they mention your grass needs cutting and the weeds tackling! Lol

Anyway, this really is a great forum mate. After this is all sorted, stick around... some seriously knowledgeable bikers/people on here on here.😁

U OK hon?

YOu forgot the valve/logo alignment.
Not read whole thread, however the marks on the station are superficial nd could be smoothed with some very fine wet & dry, to take edges off & used. So don’t worry bout them too much.

What a warm, inclusive, welcoming forum. I had a few newbie questions to ask myself. I might just cover myself in foie gras and get thrown to some starving Rottweilers instead.

I would tapes around the damage area , then get some ultra fine wet and dry paper, maybe 1200 -1500 and have a genlte rub over he scratches keeping the paper and leg soaked in clean water .
Doubt you will remove them completely but they should reduce visably and also smooth off any sharpness that might damage or wear the fork seals alot faster
Then buy some decent fork leg lube and apply every ride
As for a Barrister , dont they run at £400 an hour or so? Seems excessive to me .
suck it up buttercup and move on.

interesting perspectives. NOne of my bikes have fork scratches like that and I would be pretty unhappy if they did

blokeuptheroad

Member
What a warm, inclusive, welcoming forum. I had a few newbie questions to ask myself. I might just cover myself in foie gras and get thrown to some starving Rottweilers instead.

An odd thing this forum.

Can drive you a little mad on occasion.... can save your butt/wallet with some of the bike and non bike advice too...

Then there are threads which have changed lives, inspired me (and others) and have generally shown the goodness in humanity.

You just have to look beyond the background noise.

I'd genuinely be really upset if this forum ever shut its doors. It's my home on the net.

I’d be pissed off too, I would write an email and explain what is the result that would satisfy you.

As shitty as it is - seeing the slightness of the damage, I would forget it and move on. The compensation you would get is probably much less than your time is worth.

So, I would: -
- Remove any burrs with some very fine wet & dry
- Fill the scratches with automotive paint lacquer
- Rub down the lacquer to the same level as the original finish. Use very fine wet & dry

That will leave a perfectly functional and long-lasting finish and improve the look of the scratches slightly.

You've all made great points, so forgetting the issue about shop, and who did what, Im definitely wanting to just get on and ride.

So am I correct in understanding the general consensus seems to be not to even worry about replacing the stanchion either and just doing the wet and dry with automotive lacquer filling on scratches?

If that's really all that the damage amounts to and that repair done well will see the fork good for a long time to come then I'm OK with that.

and yes mate @poopscoop this is bl**dy entertaining reading from everyone. Ive been banned from buying anything pre-owned from russyh ever but other than that its all good, lol

So as someone requested the bike details, to better facilitate your identification of me to continue the mockery of my Stanchion Saga in real life on the trails, its a 2016 Spectral, with Eagle 12spd Drivetrain, hope X2's and 2016 Fox 34 Performance and DPS. for the princely sum of £800 + packing fee + courier.

Which with my limited knowledge and experience I thought was a cracking deal hence I was prepared to concoct such a hair brained scheme to get it down to my part of the country from where it was as a local pick up only.

Yeah, I think that's the consensus. I used clear nail varnish on a fork a few years back but automotive clear lacquer has been mentioned too.

It's one of those jobs to take your time over and order/buy some very fine emery paper. I can't remember the grades you can buy off the top of my head but someone on here will know.lol

If there are any YouTube videos on doing the repair I'd have a look at those too. Its really pretty easy but the more time you take generally the better the repair will look for a start and the more likely the repair will last well.

Cracking bike by the way the Spectral.👍

Yes, very nice bike indeed OP! And sounds like a great deal.