[Closed] Cyclists with flashing/strobbing lights in daylight

What’s your question caller?

Yes, no.  Maybe.

Rant if you're gonna rant.

Yea, but you saw them didn't you?

i saw cyclists with crap lighting

possibly the most dangerous time in my cycling day (IMO) is when I'm under tree cover and a car is coming up behind, still with sun on his screen/dash and me in the dark in front of them

I have brighter, flashier rear lights during the day than at night for that reason

(I've never considered the death penalty for those with less bright ones though - other than by carcrash)

Since the weather's got a bit duller, I've been running front flasher and rear flashing see.sense light on my commute.  It's partly for those dickheads who can't demist their windows properly before driving.

I get seen. That's my comment.

Maybe I should be totally invisible so I don't annoy ****s like you? Or what?

My exposure tracer has daybreak mode. Basically super bright constant with an even brighter flash. Intended for use at sunrise, sunset and clear winter days when the sun is low. I use flashing lights on my commute in the hope that it makes me stand out a bit when filtering.

Flashing lights every single time I go riding. Front & rear. Rear one is an Exposure with the DayBright mode mentioned above. It's quite amazing how invisible you can become when under dark/dappled tree cover when there's bright sun out in the open. Especially when it's low autumn/winter sun.

Hi Vis is less good in those conditions too and using lights means I can wear what I want without the need to be constrained by a hivis gilet or jacket.

Isn't the OP observing that these lights are barely working as folk aren't changing the batteries, not that they are too bright?

I’ve been running flashing front and rear lights in the slighter duller weather for a month or two now on my commuter. Both rear lights do constantly on with a brighter pulse through it. One of my front lights does the same, and one is purely either a flash or constant. Also have a high vis backpack with reflective bits on. Could do with something a bit more reflective from the front / side just to finish the look......

Isn’t the OP observing that these lights are barely working as folk aren’t changing the batteries, not that they are too bright?

Well if the battery is flat or faulty then that kind of negates the issue, equally a £2.99 rear flasher is probably pointless as it has no output over and above all the other visual info your standard driver is processing.

I have a 50 lumen rear that's static on with a pulsing flash. It's very bright.

If I understand the OP correctly (and I'm struggling) then the complaint seems to be that in broad daylight some lights might have visibility issues.

But it's broad daylight, when people are plainly visible anyway, so I'd suggest that in that context it's a bit like being in the Bahamas and worrying about whether someone else's hat is keeping them warm enough.

The barely visible crappy light people are probably following suit after seeing people with good quality lights with daytime modes I would imagine.

I use my lights day or night, good quality modern lights with a daytime mode are quite visible in anything but a bright summers day (how many of those do we get?). There are far too many people half asleep on the way to work in their living rooms on wheels, if it catches their eye in between mouthfuls of conflakes then it's done it's job.

Constant light on the front for me, people seem to give way more (when you have right of way anyway) if your lighting makes you look like a motorbike (pointed down and not too bright obviously)

Cars have had to have lights on during the day to make them more visible.  Motorcyclist have been running with lights on for donkeys years because they make them more visible.  Why wouldn't cyclists benefit in the same way?

Strobing lights are good as an attention getter but constant lights make it easier to judge distance, so drivers get a better sense of range and closing speed etc.

I showed a dash cam video to a friend who had been riding his bike.  With the colour of his clothes, backpack and bike blending into the urban environment really well he was practically invisible.  He went and put his lights on his bike and uses them all the time now.

Maybe a kind word that they need brighter lights/better batteries along with a recommendation or two would help them out.  If you can help a cycliat make it home in one piece, why wouldn't you?

One study showed flashing lights helped visibility in daylight.

Kink to the abstract

which is from this article

https://www.velonews.com/2018/10/bikes-and-tech/the-science-of-being-seen_472689

That said I'm  not a convert. I wear bright red or yellow tops for daylight riding but no daytime lights  and the only near misses I get are very rare punishment passes when a driver doesn't think I should be in the middle of a lane.

If its bright and sunny and/or its a group ride I dont bother otherwise I tend to just use a rear. I figure I can see whats ahead and take action. Maybe I should use a flashing front too?

I'll often have a flashing rear light on daytime rides. It's because the drivers around here are totally shit, so anything that improves the chance they might spot me in between texting and changing the radio channel has to be good.

Kink to the abstract

whatever floats your boat, I prefer to kink to impressionism.

I never want to be the least visible thing on the road.

There's a reason I always wear a helmet and use lights, to minimise victim blaming. If I get knocked off then the gormless jury can't blame me for not wearing a helmet or being seen, daylight or otherwise.

As if that actually makes a difference. Even in cases where the defence barrister has stood up and explicitly said the victim—wearing all the trinkets—had done absolutely nothing wrong, someone driving straight into them still gets found not guilty of anything.

If I think something has the potential to reduce the risk of an idiot failing to spot me then I might use it. But I’ve read enough now to be convinced there’s at best nothing to be gained by wearing something in the hope of any beneficial political or psychological influence after an incident. All it really does is facilitate a gradual increase in the expectation that everyone else should wear the same.

Maybe I should be totally invisible

It makes sense then you can't annoy anyone, and better yet drivers cannot see you to run you over.

you shouldn't need them on in the daytime apart from if you're riding in dappled sunlight.

Having been knocked off my road bike at a rural roundabout in bright sunshine wearing bright red clothing by an elderly gent who claimed not to have seen me -  I now have flashing lights front and bike. Can't see why anyone, especially another cyclist would have a problem with that.

I reckon... reading the post again in the cold light of day... the OP saw a bloke once. Shit lights. And decided we needed to know.

Having been knocked off my road bike at a rural roundabout in bright sunshine wearing bright red clothing by an elderly gent who claimed not to have seen me – I now have flashing lights front and bike.

But there will always be anecdotes like that. I once had to take evasive action in a probably similar situation when a driver entered from a minor road and almost took me down: I had lights front and rear plus a load of reflective stuff. (Fortunately I narrowly avoided an impact but he certainly became aware of me when I slapped his car—he was very apologetic.)

The overwhelming problem isn't a lack of visibility (when on a bicycle); that's just tinkering round the edges. It's a lack of understanding of how—and the will—to look properly and how to counteract our brains' known abilities to mislead us (when in a car).

you shouldn’t need them on in the daytime apart from if you’re riding in dappled sunlight.

So I need lights fitted on the off chance that I go down a road with overhanging trees? And then I need to stop at the beginning of the dappled section to turn the lights on?

Or I could just ride with lights on. Seems simpler.

I've started using a solid rear light and flashing front light in the last couple of weeks, riding in at 8am and home at 5pm, the sun is just low enough/it's just murky enough that the extra SEE ME! lights are needed.

Nothing special, just the Aldi bike light pack, but they're pretty bright for what they are.

In broad daylight lights shouldn't be required, but when there is low sun and shade all bets are off.
Having once nearly driven into someone on a bike (I was mortified because I only saw them at the last second) because I had bright sunlight head on and they were hidden by shade from a hedge anything that makes them more visible to me is good.

Anything that prevents a rider from disappearing is good.

i saw cyclists with crap lighting

No you didn't. You saw cyclists. Seeing cyclists is a good thing.

Strobing lights are good as an attention getter but constant lights make it easier to judge distance, so drivers get a better sense of range and closing speed etc.

This is a big issue with strobing lights after dark (for other cyclists as much as drivers) but during daylight the speed range thing isnt an issue - if the strobe has grabbed attention you shouldnt have any trouble seeing the moving object.

That said, I think flashing at dawn/dusk/dark under trees is more effective than static.

All anecdata though.

As a driver of big vehicles with limited visibility at all times of day d night I can safely say that any cyclist with lights on is easier to spot than one without at any time of day.  The most visible are ones with both static and pulsing lights, clothing or bags that are a contrasting colour to the surroundings (bright in the countryside, natural colours in urban areas for example) and anything extra like reflective tyrewalls, pedal reflectors or wrist/ankle straps make a massive difference.  No substitute for common sense and proactive riding positions but it does help.

As an aside I've got to go to Bristol to assess a driver after they knocked a cyclist over last week.  Thy claim to have not seen them in the gloom of sunrise but having seen the picture of the bike and what the cyclist was wearing plus knowing the road it happened on I'm preparing for finding someone who has no observational skills or poor eyesight.  Even every safety light and hi vis going won't protect you from everyone.

I nearly wiped out a cyclist the other day going down the valley road. Came round a corner just as his strobe went off and suffered partial retina burn so that I was unable to see where I was going for a second or 2. 😉

😉

See, if you'd actually had one eye closed you'd have been OK

@scaredypants. I shall have to remember to do that. I always used to try the same trick when driving through tunnels, squint one eye in advance and then open it in the tunnel and you can see much better 🙂

In all seriousness the strobe certainly made the cyclist visible, but the angle of the light really was such that it was proper dazzling to oncoming traffic.

I prefer a pulsing light to a flashing one.  What I don't get is those people riding with just a flashing front light on unlit country roads.  I can't understand how that is easy to look at for a long period or for navigating potholes etc.  A solid beam with a secondary flasher makes more sense surely?

I've noticed a lot less instances of "oh it's only a bike" cars pulling out of a side junction / right turns across my nose at a crossroads and assorted "won't give way" ****iness, since I've ran a bright day strobe. I think the brain has to calculate speed/distance a bit harder, delaying the usual rush and rage driving of the entitled car-gammons that do these things, just enough that they can no longer squeeze through

So I need lights fitted on the off chance that I go down a road with overhanging trees? And then I need to stop at the beginning of the dappled section to turn the lights on?

Or I could just ride with lights on. Seems simpler.

Fair point.

I have dynamo lights so it's easy to flick one switch to turn them on / off without having to stop or even slow down.

 if the strobe has grabbed attention you shouldnt have any trouble seeing the moving object

It was a while ago that I read the study but iirc the problem was that the strobe distracted the eye from the object itself, so the observer inadvertently used only the strobe to judge speed and distance recreating the same effect as a strobe  in the dark.  But that is only a sketchy recollection.

Since almost every motorist on the road doesn't know about plasticiser film and the need to remove it from the inside of the windscreen regularly, riding into shadow on a day of of head-on low sunlight is extremely dangerous because following cars' windscreens will be a grey film illuminated by the sun and cyclists in shadow will be invisible.

I have dynamo lights so it’s easy to flick one switch to turn them on / off without having to stop or even slow down.

I have dynamo lights so there's no point in ever turning them off 🙂

what i typed

strobbing front and rear lights even switched on in bright sunshine and on Sustrans paths, problem is do they work and why dont they ever check theyre bright enough to be seen  from any sort of distance  and the batteries are fit for use, see loads with lights on, but the light output is crap due to failed batteries

How many actually check their lights are still bright an hour into a ride , whats bright in a shed  is not so bright outside after a few hours use

Plasticiser film?

 I read the study

I haven't, but when I'm driving I can see bike lights. I can see steady bike lights and flashing bike lights. I haven't seen a light of any kind and thought "I er don't know how far away that is I fink I'll drive into it" and I haven't seen any reports of that happening.

@vickypea it's that kind of greasy grey opaque coating that builds up on the inside of your windscreen from the slow decomposing of the plastics in your car. Or something like that.

A good dose of screen cleaner and microfibre cloth sorts it.

On a cold sunny morning it looks like the screen is misted up.

But no amount of hot air will clear it.

I'm sure that the above is not the most technically accurate description! the

Thanks garage-dweller. That sounds horrible but presumably we aren’t being harmed by inhaling them? Or are we?!