[Closed] Cyclists 'urged' to get insurance

Why?

You'll be saying we should pay road tax next

Many of us have thru our house insurance anyway. Having insurance just makes you a target for people who want to sue you

just get a BC membership/license if you're worried.
don't CTC have something similar too?

TJ, you saying some house insurance policies also cover third party cycle accident insurance?

apparantly GW - public liability is often included and this should cover you if you damage a car for example.

CTC include 3rd party cover as part of their membership - it's the main reason I keep my subscription going.

Why?

well, there are a lot of people who don't know about CTC and other organisations. hell, a lot of people don't think they need insurance for riding a bike (legally you don't, I know). There are people who ride a bike that's not worth insuring thus aren't covered that way either.

I think that if insurance companies offered it as part of car ins then I think more people would be covered. Obviously there are people who ride for the reason they don't have a car and I don't know how to target those but for those who have a car and chose to ride to work, they should have an option on their car policy to cover when they aren't using it.
I'm not saying I think it should be compulsory. it shouldn't as this would be detrimental to uptake, much like compulsory helmet wearing.

It has no purpose tho.

All it does is make you a target for no win no fee lawyers. there is no point suing someone with no money and no insurance.

I disagree with you both

I fart in your general direction

I think you are being rather short-sighted on this TJ, Insurance isn't just to line to pockets of NWNF lawyers (though I agree they are sewer rats IME). Insurance is (generally) there to protect you from financial burden of unforseen incidents such as a white van man not checking his mirrors etc etc.

highlimber - white van man doesn't check his mirrors and knocks me off its him that needs insurance not me.

I think its you that is being very shortsighted and misguided.

I have no need at all for insurance to ride my bike. None.

Ever seen a insurance co not make huge amounts of money?

So why do I need insurance?

TJ what if [u]you[/u] collide with shiny new jag man and dent/scratch it?

Its not something I do or have done - anyway thats what he has insurance for. He shouldn't have got in my way. doesn't he know who I am?

[b]"I think its you that is being [s]very[/s] [i]slightly[/i] shortsighted and misguided".[/b]

I prefer to drink a can of K cider before my bike rides on the road. T'is illumniating as to the depth of my hatred for people and cars.

Though I will slow down for pigeons.

I never said you were misguided Jeremy!

Nor am I short-sighted. I am fully aware of the limitations and stress of claiming on other people's insurance from their stupidity.

He shouldn't have got in my way. doesn't he know who I am?

I have it and it is cheap with either CTC or British cycling [ later is only £22 iirc]. Used it only once when someone pulled out on me from e junction and I damaged their wing doing an endo on it an pushing off with my spd shoe.
Never heard a word after he got a proper solicitors letter.
Depends how many mile you do and how much commuting tbh but it is not a daft idea for serious cyclists to consider but probably overkill if you ride twice a year

Ever seen a insurance co not make huge amounts of money?

ERM...???

LOADS OF TIMES! For ever, since it started as a concept!

Otherwise everyone'd be doing it, capacity would flood the market, prices would drop, until more than a few companies got stung, then it starts to switch around again. There's a few other things than affect profitability, but that's the market cycle. Currently it's soft, not many are making good money. Some classes are starting to move up, including UK motor, (which as a class doesn't tend to make money, based on the last 10-15 years) others might follow soon.

Don't know much about insurance, do you? You're normally so careful with facts, why so slapdash here? Got beef? 🙂

So why do I need insurance?

for when you are at fault in an accident that causes life changing injuries to someone else

obviously that's only for normal people, we all know it wouldn't happen to you. 😉

there is no point suing someone with no money and no insurance.

IIRC you have both 🙄 why are you arguing the point?

Big and daft - and cyclist maim loads of people each year do they?

I am quite prepared to accept millions to one chances

As a road user (in my car, van or bike) I'd like to think that the people who could damage me or my possessions are in a position to compensate me if they do do damage. If you drive a big metal powerful vehicle where the concequence of damage is high the insurance is also high. It would seem reasonable to me that all road users were in the same postion and that I needed to have insurance on my bike in case I do do damage also. As the risk of me doing damage is low and the amount of damage I could do is also low I would expect it to be much cheaper for riding a bike than driving a car. It is. I could still do light damage to cars which can be surprisingly expensive to put right or significant damage to pedestrians that could be way beyond my means to adequatly compensate for.

There is an argument to say that I could self insure against this risk. But would you be happy for private car drivers to take that position? Not sure I would and as such would think it hypcritical to think it should be ok for me to do so on my bike.

The point about becoming a target for insurance claims I also think is mute. If there is a problem with people making excessive or spurious claims that is a problem that should be dealt with and is not a good enough reason for people not to have insurance in the first place.

TJ what if you collide with shiny new jag man and dent/scratch it?

Just laugh and ride off, innit? 😆 S'only a car ffs.

I've avoided paying insurance for all on my adult life, i'm not about to start for a bike! stuff that!

I am quite prepared to accept millions to one chances

The insurance is not for you. Is the person you (it could be you, you never know) put in a wheelchair by not seeing on a crossing prepared to accept those odds and the fact you as a single person don't have the earning power to help them pay for the changes to their life you have inflicted on them ?

I think I'm quite a good driver - I'm prepared to take the risk I won't knock you off when I travel through Edinburgh next week so I don't need insurance. Are you prepared for me to take that risk to you?

Elfin - I know someone who did just as I described, during a Time trial (so no chance of riding off, even if his bike hadn't been totalled 😉 ). would have cost him a fortune had he not been a BCF member.

For me it's not about the public liability on the off chance I do have an accident that is my fault 9althougb obviously it helps).

Supposing someone knocks me off. I don't want to deal with the consequences of trying to claim, I want to give it to my insurers and let them deal with it. They're the experts, they have the time to deal with other insurance companies on my behalf.

Add up the cost of your bike/clothing/kit. Could you afford to walk into a bike shop and replace all of that in one fell swoop. I know I couldn't...

Supposing someone knocks me off. I don't want to deal with the consequences of trying to claim, I want to give it to my insurers and let them deal with it. They're the experts, they have the time to deal with other insurance companies on my behalf.

This. Whenever you have a crash in a car, you defer it to your insurers. why not have the same ability on your bike (regardless of fault)

TandemJeremy - Member

highlimber - white van man doesn't check his mirrors and knocks me off its him that needs insurance not me.

White Van Man drives off- it would now be useful to have insurance.

northwind - nope - thats a hit and run - compu from the insurance board

convert

The insurance is not for you. Is the person you (it could be you, you never know) put in a wheelchair by not seeing on a crossing prepared to accept those odds and the fact you as a single person don't have the earning power to help them pay for the changes to their life you have inflicted on them ?

ridiculous supposition

Having seen a friend knocked off and left in the road by an uninsured, untaxed, inlicensed driver in London, i'd suggest thats the far bigger problem that needs sorting out first.

Is the person you (it could be you, you never know) put in a wheelchair by not seeing on a crossing prepared to accept those odds and the fact you as a single person don't have the earning power to help them pay for the changes to their life you have inflicted on them ?

Couldn't the same argument be applied to pedestrians as well? What if one steps out in front of me whilst cycling along and leaves me in a wheelchair?

Where does this end!?

This. Whenever you have a crash in a car, you defer it to your insurers.

So you deal with your insurance company rather than theirs. Whats the difference? You're still sending off receipts and asking stuff to be replaced etc?

Anyway, its just one of those publicity stunt things, which, i seem to have fallen for. damn it.

I know someone who did just as I described, during a Time trial (so no chance of riding off, even if his bike hadn't been totalled ). would have cost him a fortune had he not been a BCF member

Supposing someone knocks me off. I don't want to deal with the consequences of trying to claim, I want to give it to my insurers and let them deal with it.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here (why do we have another thread on the same subject without even a link to the advertorial?) so I'll repeat my standard comment for those who ignored TJ's comment right up there:

Cyclists don't need separate insurance - the vast majority of them already have 3rd party cover under their household insurance. Previous experience of debating this on here suggests that's also the vast majority of those who claim they don't have any.

Cyclists don't need separate insurance to help them claim from drivers who knock them off. A lot of people have legal cover under their household insurance, but for those who don't (and I'd suggest also for those who do - persuade your legal cover to pay a specialist), there's always www.bikeline.co.uk who will work on a no-win-no-fee basis.

In what way? Say you do scratch Mr Jag's uh, Jag. Fair enough, he has insurance - but what do you do if they come knocking at your door for the cash?

Oh, and note that "-1" at the ed of the url up there. It's a clue, trying to tell you something.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/cyclists-urged-to-get-insurance

If I am self insuring and am at fault I pay up

Its so unlikely tho that it can be ignored. a couple of hundred thousand miles cycled over 40 years and I have never damaged a car in a accidental collision that is my fault nor have I ever heard of it happening

TandemJeremy - Member

northwind - nope - thats a hit and run - compu from the insurance board

Which is slow, complex and frustrating.

Which is slow, complex and frustrating.

I have to admire your fatalistic outlook TJ.
You remind me of all those people who live near volcanoes or in eatherquake zones. most of them have lived for decades underneath dormant volcanoes or in EQ zones and beleive it will never happen to them, then BANG!

No, he's fine, he's thought about it And decided he's prepared to take the risk. Same as I do. Same as plenty of people do. I'd were wrong, it's our legal liability and our money.

So he didn't have household insurance then?

what do you do if they come knocking at your door for the cash?

Give false address innit.

highclimber - and you want to insure risks that are incredibly low. I think you are doing the chicken likin thing " help - the skys falling"

find me an example of a cyclist being sucessfully sued for serious injuries to caused somone.

despite what TJ says, I've never heard of anyone's household insurance paying out for damage done to another persons car on a public road while cycling. have you?

I'd be covered under my household insurance, and when this issue last came up I checked the terms of 3 or 4 popular insurance companies and all of them covered 3rd party liability for cycling. Please come back and tell me I'm wrong after you've checked the terms of your insurance and found it doesn't cover you - until then I'll mark you down in the having insurance but not realising it camp.

what insurance?

Er, household insurance. I thought I'd mentioned that once or twice - maybe not. If you've not got that I'm quite happy to move you to the other people being insured but you not realising it camp.

If I am self insuring and am at fault I pay up

Its so unlikely tho that it can be ignored. a couple of hundred thousand miles cycled over 40 years and I have never damaged a car in a accidental collision that is my fault nor have I ever heard of it happening

This is great logic - I'm going to adopt it! I worked out the other day I've got nearly half a million behind the wheel and never had a single incident. That means I must be 2.5 times less likely to have an accident in a car than you on a bike. I'm off to cancel my insurance as it's clear it'll never happen in the future!

convert - thousands of people a year killed by cars - how many by bikes?

That means I must be 2.5 times less likely to have an accident in a car than you on a bike. I'm off to cancel my insurance as it's clear it'll never happen in the future!

it is not about this TJ it is theoretically possible to damage a car or seriously hurt a pedestrian and it be your fault- I have skidding in snow on a downhill road hitting a stationary car - it was a heap so they were not bothered and they were laughing as they had seen me skidding all the way down - i did well to hold it tbh.

I have never had a crash in a car can i be exempt from car insurance please?
Again the consequences of a car crash are far more likely to be severe but that is not the actual point.

Yes junkyard - but its so low a probability that its a risk I am prepared to accept it and self insure - same as I self insure in loads of other situations such as mountaineering in the EU and so on.

same as I self insure in loads of other situations such as mountaineering in the EU and so on.

you mean you don't have ANY insurance when mountaineering? I can possibly understand you not wanting/needing cycle insurance but for this I cannot understand your logic!

Yes, Insurance is essential if you ride on the road. I didn't realise until I needed it, but luckily my home contents insurance had a little clause that covered me, otherwise I would have been over a grand out of pocket.

What if you hit a dog then veer into a new shiny jag 😉

Dog owner's fault. Automatically and unequivocally.

is it, what always? 😉

just watching the item on BBC about this, so a cyclist gets hit by a van, driver no licence, no insurance, etc.

and as the item says most accidents are the fault of drivers, bit of a shock to hear that on TV, Drivers cause accidents with cyclists!! well i never.

And unsurprisingly the ABI say cyclist should get insurance, what are they going to say? don't bother? FFS

I'm assuming insurance companies have some idea about the relative risk (likelihood times consequence - ins cos tend to call it "exposure"). Hence why they're quite happy to include 3rd party cover for cycling under household policies, but not for driving.

and why buying it as a standalone policy is buttons to buy which makes me wonder why some sack sacks above can make such a fuss about cyclists having it.

haven't the ABI got a scheme where they pay out to an injured 3rd party if a driver who caused it is uninsured

just watching the item on BBC about this

I need to get onto Nescafe and point out that they're wasting all their money paying for adverts when all they need to do is make a press release on what's clearly a slow news day.

[i]As a road user (in my car, van or bike) I'd like to think that the people who could damage me or my possessions are in a position to compensate me if they do do damage.[/i]

So all pedestrians should also have insurance?

When we lived in Germany the insurance rep said all Germans had 3rd party insurance. The example he used was my son throwing a ball and breaking a window. Declined it then, and the only 3rd party insurance we have is for my wifes' horse.

you mean you don't have ANY insurance when mountaineering? I can possibly understand you not wanting/needing cycle insurance but for this I cannot understand your logic!

Yup - completely unneeded. The only thing you are not covered for under reciprocal arrangements is repatriation. I ain't a huge big hard rock climber tho.

Highclimber - I suggest yo have been taken in by the scarmongering of the insurance industry

gwaelod - Member

haven't the ABI got a scheme where they pay out to an injured 3rd party if a driver who caused it is uninsured

Indeed thy have

is it, what always?

Yes.

Right, my two penneth...

I have insurance through CTC membership. I have this for the following reasons:

1) I like being a member of the CTC
2) I ride through the City of London at least twice a day, Monday to Friday. As such there is a much higher chance that something might happen one day where I will need insurance. The advantage of the CTC scheme over and above home insurance is that I'd get access to a team of legal people who regularly deal with the needs of cyclists

Anyway, it's a personal choice, so I don't really care what anyone else thinks!

My dad has lived overseas for 15 years and recently moved back to the UK. Now living in London suburbia and fearful of cycling around with all the traffic, he asked a couple of local bobbies whether it was okay to cylcle on the pavement - astonishingly they said it wasn't, but "not in the town center"...whatever that's means (?). So that's it then it's official it's legal to cycle on the roads and the pavements - just make sure you're insured before mowing down the OAP's.

Yup - completely unneeded. The only thing you are not covered for under reciprocal arrangements is repatriation. I ain't a huge big hard rock climber tho.

BMC 3rd pty liability only extends to, well, 3rd parties you injure. it doesn't cover anything you require such as lost equipment, hospital costs and rescue where rescue isn't free.

I haven't been taken in by anything, I am aware of the risks of what I do I want to protect myself and my (limited) money should the worst happen and Insurance I have taken out in the past was completely necessary and most definately not a waste of money in the absence of retrospect.

- reading the top of page 16 it appears the cyclist in the case study should be able to make a claim for all of his losses. You'd think the ABI would know this, it being their scheme...

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQi-awA2oiJcbeDHNhkoWQURPTaAbmBiuPL3eGgiPmTZi0Qi9f8Dw [/img]
Pendantry corner:

TJ: you're not "self insuring", you're choosing not to insure. Might not sound quite as scientific as you'd like, but there we are.

yes

Yeah I know elf, it was supposed to be a funny reference to another thread, but it wasn't.

😀

Highclimber 0 IN Europe the reciprocal arrangements mean you don't pay for healthcare and rescue is free.

You only get the bills that if you have insurance as you will then be taken to private clinics

the only thing you are not covered for is repatriation.

"and rescue is free."

I'm not sure about this bit. On the continent, I've always bought sports insurance to cover the cost of recovering me from the hill (heli flights can be expensive), and for medical repatriation. You are right on about the reciprocal healthcare aspect though.

TandemJeremy - Member
If I am self insuring and am at fault I pay up

TandemJeremy - Member
Many of us have thru our house insurance anyway.

as you own mortgaged property and hence will be insured which statement is true? 😉

Having insurance just makes you a target for people who want to sue you

I didn't know people were targeting householders with mortgages for 3rd party claims 🙄

[b][i]IF[/i][/b] I am self insuring

contents and bricks and mortar insurance are different and its usually contents that carrys 3rd party liability.

there is no point in suing someone with no insurance and no money. Once you have insurance it becomes worth suing you

I'm not going to go into full detail yet but I had an accident a year ago. Very brief lapse in concentration on my part, just a second, nothing more. Bam. I'm in the back of a car.

Twelve months later it's still not resolved.

I wasn't insured.

I was on my bike. It's been immensely stressful and very expensive.
The CRC insurance form was on my desk at home, I never got round to it.

The stress alone has been very unpleasant. Insurance companies are ruthless bastards.

Make sure youre insured.

I'm with TJ on this one, I hate the way we are encouraged to insure such low risk things.
samuri, shouldn't we stand up to the insurance companies because of their awful practices rather than further filling their pockets?

The advantage of the CTC scheme over and above home insurance is that I'd get access to a team of legal people who regularly deal with the needs of cyclists

Don't they just put you onto some no win no fee type lawyers that you can get access to anyway?

Yep, go for it. You stand up to them. See you in court.

That's where I'm heading because I stood up to them. Sounds like a great philosophy to me. I'm already down a lot of money, I have no illusions about where this will end up. I can't afford the lawyers they can so I'll lose.

I'm not being sued or ripped off. The laws are in place to allow people to recover money where liability is proven. You're sharing the road with people who have enormous organisations insuring them. The choice is taken out of the hands of the people driving the cars, this is enterprise level litigation.

You know what? I'm an honest, law abiding citizen which is why when the copper turned up after the accident I gave my details.

If I had the choice again, I'd have grabbed my unrideable bike, shouldered it and legged it. Would have better all round but there you go.

It was my fault though, so I have to pay up. Morals don't help you anything when your bank balance is dropping rapidly. I'd be 32 quid down rather than where I am now if I'd have bought insurance.

Funny this is. I've got insurance for when I'm kitesurfing. At sea. With maybe 2 other kitesurfers and the occasional passing dog walker. But I don't bother on a bike. Never really struck me as to what a daft combination that is.

Oh, it turns out my house insurance covers it. handy.