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Seeing more and more of this , what’s your thoughts on it ?
8 pages
Same as cars? Round Manchester it seems like it's red + 2 cars on each change.
Usually most people are more important than the rules which apply to other people.
I don't care about traffic light laws when riding a bike, never have. Often it's far safer to not stop at a red light. Often there's no actual reason to need to stop at all.
Apart from the cars coming across the junction that might kill you. Or pedestrians crossing the road....
Oh and the law!
I don’t care about traffic light laws when riding a bike, never have. Often it’s far safer to not stop at a red light. Often there’s no actual reason to need to stop at all.
Do you ever post anything apart from extolling how awesome you are?
im sat waiting for the thread where
" i went through on red and got hit by a car , bloody motorists "
but even better will be
" i went through on red and got hit by a cow , bloody farmers "
Same as cars? Round Manchester it seems like it’s red + 2 cars on each change.
Seriously. What gives with that? I've been up here 2 months from Reading and despite being like miss daisy away from the lights regularly have squeaky bum moments as cars fly through junctions which must have been red for quite some time!
Not really sure what you're hoping for OP...
Execution on the spot without trial, seem proportionate enough?
I've seen people drive through red lights, in their brum cars and vans too... Thoughts?
Seriously. What gives with that?
Yeah was a bit of a shock, managed to leave a few stuck in the middle of the road with a quick set off on the bike too.
Not really sure what you’re hoping for OP…
True that but we all got to bask in Geex's awesomeness for a bit
I was walking round Manchester last night (in the rain) and twice, that's right twice, cyclists stopped at red lights enabling me to cross in safety when the little green man appeared.
Law abiding, considerate ****ERS!
More and more of it? Where? By the same rider?
Not hoping anything!
And I mean going through red lights when cars are stopped at the same lights waiting for them to change! Not jumping a light !
ive seen a pretty horrible video of a guy going straight through a red light and getting hit up in the air by some way , doesn’t make for good watching, I do a lot of mtbing which sometimes I have to cycle on the road sometime, and an amazed by what I sometimes see !
It's all the fault of those stupid bastards that put traffic lights in the middle of Strava segments.
Not as admirable as car drivers who overtake the first person to stop at a red light.
My view is that many urban bike riders see themselves as pedestrians on bikes. They treat red lights as a pedestrian would. I.e. You can ignore it if you wish and cross having made your own choice. Red lights are for things with engines.
I don't agree with it, but that's my take on their thought process.
Well do you stop at lights OP?
I know I do...
I expect most cyclists (nationally) actually do stop for reds...
Still nothing like general anecdotes and YouTube to build a complete and unbiased picture of how a group of road users behave...
I do actually,
just after some thoughts thats all !!!!
I think it is the motorists most common complaint about cyclists and why they are dicks.
so for every cyclist that jumps a red light that is 5 motorists that think me, my wife and children are dicks for being cyclists.
2 rights do not make a wrong cyclist should be above this sort thing just to save 30 seconds.
it really pisses me me off to see cyclist jump a light and narrowly avoid hitting a pedestrian - it just enforces the current thinking of the highway ie fastest biggest has superiority.
it amazes me how many parents with child seats (but yet to see occupied ) think it is acceptable to jump a red light, would they teach their children that this was acceptable?
OK My thoughts are:
There will always be a minority of bellends in any group, leave them to it and think no more about it...
30 sec to stop at a set of lights isn't going to inconvenience me any.
Stop at red lights - unless I can see it’s clear to go through.
Much the same as when I’m in a car.
Seems pointless waiting to give traffic coming opposite direction the right of way - if there is no traffic there.
And everyone knows cyclists don’t pay road tax - so red lights etc don’t apply.
I would try not to let it upset you Paul, just concentrate on having fun MTBing.
I stop, I reckon I see more cars jump them than bikes, but then I see a lot more cars. Generally the posher the car the more likely they are to jump.
ill berate anyone who jumps them, regardless of vehicle
I'm aware that it's a complete edge case, but traffic lights that don't detect you standing there in the filter lane SO NEVER BLOODY CHANGE are a bit of a pet hate for me.
I usually don't stop at red lights, which is interesting, cause on the ebike I do. Tis odd, but there ye go.
That's because deep down you know it's really a motorbike.
Anyway, I don't cycle through red lights. I prefer to hop onto the pavement and use the pedestrian crossing.
Do you mean deliberately riding across the junction? I'll position myself at the front of the queue, and since there's usually someone parked in the ASL box that means that I'm in often past the light when I wait.
Just riding through as if they don’t mean anything, I’m by no means slating cyclists as I’m one myself, and not am I defending cars !
Just amazed by what I see (spend 8 hrs a day in a vehicle with work) and see some crazy risks being taken.
I stop, I reckon I see more cars jump them than bikes, but then I see a lot more cars. Generally the posher the car the more likely they are to jump.
ill berate anyone who jumps them, regardless of vehicle
There's a large junction in Manchester where I'd frequently get stopped at a red light on the commute home, green man on, and get passed by tens of student Teds bombing through (green man on both ways). One evening, one of them asked me why I was stopped on my bike for, because it was a toucan crossing. Felt like a spanner, never noticed the green bike symbol...
On my cycle commute there are two sets of red lights that I ignore on the way in to work.
They are at junctions with good visibility both ways, but controlled by an induction strip in the ground which doesn't sense me/my bikes presence . At around 0600 there are very few other vehicles on the road , so I would be waiting a long, long time for the lights to change to allow me to continue. I therefore wait until the road is clear and proceed.
Other than that I stop at every red light.
I very much doubt it's unique to Southampton, but I have lights on my cycle to work before 0700 that will not change to green for a cyclist without a car behind them wanting to go in the same direction, so I have to break the law most days by cautiously going through red lights.
These aren't little roads either, Hill Lane and Shirley Road, from a bit later in the day they are quite busy. But that's no good to me wanting to get to work for 0630 or 0700.
To be honest, it's a bloody rediculous situation, traffic lights in 2018 should have sensors that can react to a cyclist waiting at a red light.
Rediculous *chuckle*
Don't confuse cyclists with bike riders.
"Cyclists" ride safely and obey the rules of the road when riding on it.
"Bike riders" wear trackie bottoms and pull wheelies in front of buses and run red lights on there way to pick up some weed from there dealer.
Don’t confuse cyclists with bike riders.
“Cyclists” ride safely and obey the rules of the road when riding on it.
“Bike riders” wear [s]trackie bottoms[/s] non cycling gear and pull wheelies safely and in control in front of buses and run red lights on there way to pick up some weed from their dealer.
I've never really felt much allegiance with cyclists.
BBob PM me if you want to meet sometime.
BBob PM me if you want to meet sometime.
I’d rather have a tooth extracted without anaesthetic
It's legal in the US to turn right on a red anyway.
And in Idaho, cyclists can roll through a red entirely.
https://www.bikeleague.org/content/bike-law-university-idaho-stop
And yet the sky has not fallen in, or anything bad happened, other than getting Donald Trump as president.
. One evening, one of them asked me why I was stopped on my bike for, because it was a toucan crossing. Felt like a spanner, never noticed the green bike symbol…
A green bike light on a toucan is for people CROSSING the road. If you're riding along the road then the red traffic light still applies.
I tend to believe that if you don’t follow the rules of the road, you’re not going to get any favours from other road users. It’s human nature, the vehicle is irrelevant.
If you are a cyclist and run red lights, please be aware that your selfish actions are impacting others as it aggravates drivers who take out their frustrations on cyclists either verbally or through their aggressive driving. You might perceive that you are safer but consider that others aren't because of your actions.
In a time when we are trying to increase active transport and the infrastructure that supports it, your actions give fuel to detractors and delay its advancement.
Next time you run a red light, please think about the above and whether your convenience and adding a few minutes to your journey is really worth it.
If you are a cyclist and run red lights, please be aware that your selfish actions are impacting others as it aggravates drivers who take out their frustrations on cyclists either verbally or through their aggressive driving. You might perceive that you are safer but consider that others aren’t because of your actions.
In a time when we are trying to increase active transport and the infrastructure that supports it, your actions give fuel to detractors and delay its advancement.
Next time your run a red light, please think about the above and whether your convenience and adding a few minutes to your journey is really worth it.
If everyone blindly follows a silly rule, no one will ever know its a silly rule.
Round Manchester it seems like it’s red + 2 cars on each change.
Hold on a minute...They have cars in the North now? Good grief.
They'll be wanting the vote next.
If everyone blindly follows a silly rule, no one will ever know its a silly rule.
do people actually do it for such altruistic reasons as changing the law? or do they do it for selfish reasons?
A green bike light on a toucan is for people CROSSING the road. If you’re riding along the road then the red traffic light still applies.
So riding over on the toucan is bang out of order then? What's the purpose of the green cycle sign - you can wheel your bike over or something? As you obv can't cycle on the pavement it seems like it would be odd to cater for that [there's a cycle lane on this particular junction but it's on the road].
please think about the above and whether your convenience and adding a few minutes to your journey is really worth it.
This argument would have some sense to it apart from the minor detail that as others have pointed out car drivers break the rules left, right and centre. Many are so badly informed that they dont even understand what an amber light means.
As such the actions of any particular cyclist, or even large number of cyclists, is meaningless when it comes to these idiots. They would just invent cyclists doing wrong either by simply making stuff up or claiming that legal behaviour is wrong. The obvious example being riding in primary.
Round Manchester it seems like it’s red + 2 cars on each change.
I'm very careful stopping at just-changed red lights for that very reason. Can pretty much guarantee that a least one driver (quite often 2 or 3 ) behind me, on seeing it flick from green to amber will actually floor it rather than slowing.
Astonishingly this never happens at the one set of lights with cameras on it. Amazing coincidence.
And yes, I operate on the principle that traffic lights are merely guidance for me and a useful indication of what most other road users might do.
This argument would have some sense to it apart from the minor detail that as others have pointed out car drivers break the rules left, right and centre. Many are so badly informed that they dont even understand what an amber light means.
Isn't this what we refer to as whataboutery. "But they break the rules far more than we do, go after them, why should we stop?"
There be dragons, I think..
This argument would have some sense to it apart from the minor detail that as others have pointed out car drivers break the rules left, right and centre. Many are so badly informed that they dont even understand what an amber light means.
Which is one of the reasons I don't want to be in the middle of a junction at the wrong time, a little self preservation....
Latest one was again Manchester, coming up to what looked like a pedestrian crossing, was turning Amber but thought I was fine, realised it was instead a long box junction so stopped hard, the BMW behind me must have shat himself by the look he had as he cam around me on the now red light to turn left past me 🙁
Tassie had the right idea where you could ride on the pavement/crossings so you could cross a junction with the pedestrian lights and get off again. I think some of the problems here are now on the junctions that stop all 4 lanes of a cross roads for pedestrians to go at the same time, perfect time to sneak over
Isn’t this what we refer to as whataboutery.
Nope that would be if I said what about the horse riders or scooter riders etc.
Instead what I am specifically commenting on is that those ranting about cyclists breaking laws are, in my experience, equally and possibly more prone to breaking the same laws. So its not that the laws are being broken which is their concern it is just a handy, although hypocritical, stick to attack cyclists with. Remove that stick and they would just find another.
Next time you see someone ranting about cyclists ask them about the "war on motorists". My money will be that they will think the poor motorist is being persecuted by being expected to occasionally drive according to the speed limit and not be chatting away on their mobile.
I get your point, but I'm not sure it is a legitimate justification for running red lights, just an excuse.
And why give them such an obvious stick to beat cyclists with? Riding primary could be justified to drivers, whereas running red lights couldn't be.
do people actually do it for such altruistic reasons as changing the law? or do they do it for selfish reasons?
Selfish, still doesn't negate the point though. One individual breaking the rule isn't going to do much on it's own, lots might get the point across.
If you are a cyclist and run red lights, please be aware that your selfish actions are impacting others as it aggravates drivers who take out their frustrations on cyclists either verbally or through their aggressive driving.
Rubbish. The drivers that behave like that are going to do it anyway. They might try and justify their behaviour by blaming red light jumping cyclists, but in reality they don't give a toss about other people's safety. They just don't want to see cyclists on the road.
I think jumping red lights is a bad idea. If you look at the road traffic stats, the overwhelming majority of incidents caused by ignoring traffic signals are caused by motorists. I think it makes sense to concentrate on the biggest source of danger first.
Seriously. What gives with that?
Try Leeds/Bradford. Stop on a red light, and cars will flash you, mount the pavement, and go around you. But, of course, they don't "give all drivers a bad name", do they.
As it happens, there are plenty of junctions, designed purely for cars/buses/lorrys, where a cyclist would be wise to go through on a red light… where obeying the lights, and trying to move with the traffic, increases your risk of ending up under a lorry… let's not discuss that though.
Riding primary could be justified to drivers, whereas running red lights couldn’t be.
Actually it can be. Incorrectly set lights as mentioned by others. Which is the only time I will routinely run a red light. It the authorities cant be arsed making the lights usable by me then I consider them optional.
The other is for safety reasons. There is a good reason why Paris, Brussels etc allow cyclists to go through red lights under certain conditions. The UK authorities semi acknowledge this with the advanced stop zones but then fail to enforce them properly making them pointless. Not something I have done recently but if I have an artic come up beside me indicating it wants to turn through me then I am getting out of the danger zone by legal means or not.
Also have you ever tried explaining primary to some of those mouth breathers? The sort of people ranting about how cyclists believe they are morally superior whilst doing exactly that themselves by claiming the reason they object to cyclists is their rule breaking.
Run red lights. You're a hole at the back . If the lights don't work for you I assume that after about 2 experiences you tell the authorities. Maybe just wait just as you like cars to wait to overtake in a safe place.
Comparison with cars is stupid. So what? Thats just saying that your crime is less bad than theirs. Crime is crime.
Typical modern Britain. " I want my way and stuff the rest of you"
Incorrectly set lights as mentioned by others. Which is the only time I will routinely run a red light.
Genuine question - what is it about the setting of the lights that makes them unsuitable specifically for cyclists? Is it the cycle it too short to get across it? Can't envisage another issue. Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough.
Also, those that say other countries allow left turn at red lights so right turn should be allowed so they do it anyway. Do you do it in cars too? If not, why not?
If the lights don’t work for you I assume that after about 2 experiences you tell the authorities.
I've done that for some lights that are there to stop traffic and allow buses to rejoin the main carriageway from the bus lane. The council replied to say it was hard to make lights that recognise cyclists and buses due to the size difference, so they wouldn't be doing anything to change it.
Convert: some lights only give you a green when the induction loops detect a vehicle, they are often not sensitive enough to detect a bike. I've had the same problem with temporary traffic lights fitted with above--ground sensors.
I don't do it other than occasionally setting off just before it turns green to stop the left turn overtaking but it doesn't really bother me. No real harm done and as mentioned perfectly legal in other countries so not inherently unsafe. Yes some motorists use it as a stick to beat cyclists but if no one ever did it they'd just use something else; not wearing a helmet or high viz, not using a cycle path, riding in the primary position, etc. There's probably a 1000 other, more dangerous things that are routinely ignored,, not sure why this one (and cycling on the pavement) generate so much anger
Rubbish. The drivers that behave like that are going to do it anyway. They might try and justify their behaviour by blaming red light jumping cyclists, but in reality they don’t give a toss about other people’s safety. They just don’t want to see cyclists on the road.
Exactly. There are no red lights, no crossings and pretty much no junctions where I live yet a lot of the drivers are complete ****ers who would rather risk knocking you off your bike that being held up for 20 seconds.
I don't care much. I care just enough to type this though. I have no problem with other cyclists or myself going through red lights so long as they do so carefully. If you get worked up over such a trivial matter, how do you cope with major issues such as being served a casserole with pastry lid when you ordered a "pie"?
Convert: some lights only give you a green when the induction loops detect a vehicle, they are often not sensitive enough to detect a bike. I’ve had the same problem with temporary traffic lights fitted with above–ground sensors.
Ah, I see - I thought it was reference to the sequence or timing not just the age old issue of not being sensed by the lights. It's my perception that this is much better that years ago and the technology has improved.
But really I think most of the rlj that annoys people is not this - it's busy junctions with traffic already queuing and cyclist riding straight past and through the light and weaving their way through traffic going perpendicularly to them. I used to see a lad pretty much every day doing this who was either really bad at it or just didn't care as his safe passage across was not down to canny timing but cars and lorries legitimately going across from another direction pulling up to avoid him and let him through. Completely impervious to being beeped and sworn at. Then he disappeared never to be seen again. No idea if he moved or ended up under a lorry.
Induction loops are not always sensitive enough to detect cyclists, therefore the junction control system is not aware that a cyclist is trying to use the junction and will therfore not trigger the phase at which the lights change to allow them to exit the junction.
At the times when I use these junctions on my commutes , there are no other cars to trigger my phase, and the road I join is quiet enough to filter in to.
Even if there were cars trying to join at the same phase as me , on one junction that I use , the induction loop is sufficiently close to the stop line that when I am stopped on the bike, it would not be able to sense the car waiting behind me so we would both be there indefinitely.
All other red lights I stop at .
I tend to believe that if you don’t follow the rules of the road, you’re not going to get any favours from other road users. It’s human nature, the vehicle is irrelevant.
I have an issue with this sentiment. The 'rules of the road', for most part, were put in place to address the risks associated with motor vehicles.
There is so much made of how cyclists should be following rules (in many cases fictional ones), the whole 'road tax' thing... (and let's face it, if we're following the rules of the road, why shouldn't VED, registration plates, insurance, and all the rest of it apply to us?)
At the end of the day, riding a bicycle is an incredibly simple thing. We have way more in common with pedestrians than anything else on the road. And no one moans when they cross before the green man (effectively jumping a red light), because they're just people walking about. They don't pose any serious threat to people, just like for the most part cyclists don't.
Of course, there needs to be some common courtesy, but I think that is something long dead for many in a world that has been replaced by rules. People have forgotten how to think for themselves and act considerately in situations when they should, because they prefer a definitive line where they can be right and express their righteousness with real vigour. That has become more important than just not being a dick.
The psychology of all this goes a lot deeper than just following the 'rules of the road', and I would argue that this thinking does a lot more harm than good.
I stop at red lights btw.
If you are a cyclist and run red lights, please be aware that your selfish actions are impacting others as it aggravates drivers who take out their frustrations on cyclists either verbally or through their aggressive driving.
I agree with this. Cyclists running red lights and generally ignoring the rules of the road (perpetrated by a few) is a huge generalisation applied to cyclists by other road users, and seemingly the basis of a lot of vitriol we get from drivers. I tend to see cyclists running red lights as letting the side down.
Interestingly I've tended to have a bit of an attitude problem out on the road when dangerous driving impacts on me and I've had a tendency to respond. I've started reading Cyclecraft to try and calm myself down and came across the following quote, which I'm going to try and hold on to:
"... don't retaliate with abuse of a siren; you may cause greater trouble for the next cyclist the driver meets".
Cyclists seem to be at the very bottom of the heap when it comes to road user (and are actively hated by some drivers); if this is ever going to change then we need, as a group, to cycle responsibly and legally (irrespective of the perceived silliness of the rules it's still fuel for the aniti-cycling brigade) for the benefit of cycling and fellow cyclist in general (and I can still be an idiot on occasion).
It's the ultimate deceit by cyclists, especially by those who whine that drivers don't pay them any respect. If you want to be treated as a legitimate road user, then behave like one and don't hack off car drivers by openly breaking the law right under their noses. By cycling through a red light a cyclist throws away any moral superiority because (s)he has just flouted the conventions that we all agree to follow to keep ourselves and others safe.
Selfish, still doesn’t negate the point though. One individual breaking the rule isn’t going to do much on it’s own, lots might get the point across
Not really. Just because you might think a rule is silly, nine times out of ten they are there for very good reasons. The fact you don't know those reasons or can't be bothered to find out doesn't make the intent of the rule any less valid. Having the odd one ignorant cyclist/road user ignore a red light every now and again and getting away with it, doesn't follow that if the rule was removed and everyone did it en-mass you'd get the same result. In fact you'd have chaos. Ever been to India? that is a fantastic example of what happens when you get thousands of individuals picking and choosing what rules they are going to break for their own selfish ends...the result is utter chaos, total gridlock, and appalling safety.
The road network is a system and believe it or not the traffic signals and the intent of the rules are there to enable the traffic to flow as easily and slickly as possible. It doesn't' just take into account that one junction, but the traffic flow through an entire area. We all know that if you address the pinch point at one junction to ease traffic, mostly you're just shifting where that pinch point happens.
Just follow the rules. is it really that hard? It makes naff all difference to your journey time, means other road users have a nice predictable situation/model to deal with, and ultimately maximises the capacity of our overcrowded road network and means more people get to their destination as quickly and safely as possible.
every morning when I listen to the traffic news I'm always thinking that all the mayhem and sometimes ruined lives would be solved if a handful of cyclists stopped running the odd red light
I wait at traffic lights, of course. If impatient or there is (more often than not) an oblivious **** in a car or van blocking the ASL then I dismount and walk, pushing bike before remounting
Don't see enough other cyclists at lights or elsewhere hereabouts to have noted their customary behaviour.
If anyone would care to read RNPR Traffic Note 8 Proportion of Cyclists Who Violate Red Lights in London, please do, I am very proud of my contribution to it (not really I was 25 at the time and it bored me to tears).. it's nearly 11 years old though. Jesus times flies when you are waiting at red lights
• The majority of cyclists (84%) obey red traffic lights.
• Violation is not endemic, but 1 in 6 (16%) of cyclists do jump a red light, and at
this level may encourage more to do so in the future.
• A much greater number of men cycle during the morning and evening peaks.
When a comparison is made of the behaviour of male and female cyclists it
can be concluded that men are slightly more likely to violate red lights (17%
compared to 13%).
• In general cyclists who ride through red lights are more likely to do so whilst
travelling straight ahead at a junction. They are least likely to do so when
turning right.
• Red light violations are most common by cyclists travelling towards central
London in the morning, and away from central London in the evening.
i personally never did it (except for one set on royal college street in Camden), as others have said it gives more fuel to the general cyclists hatred thing. However advanced signals for cyclists are coming in and that will help with it a fair bit i think.
Cyclists seem to be at the very bottom of the heap when it comes to road user (and are actively hated by some drivers); if this is ever going to change then we need, as a group, to cycle responsibly and legally (irrespective of the perceived silliness of the rules it’s still fuel for the aniti-cycling brigade) for the benefit of cycling and fellow cyclist in general (and I can still be an idiot on occasion).
You think if every cyclist ("person on a bike") suddenly started cycling entirely completely legally - not on the pavement, never jumped a light, always indicated, had correct pedal reflectors - that suddenly every motorist would show more respect?!
Because that's total utter bollocks.
In fact there's a lot of evidence from various cities that allowing (or turning a blind eye) to cyclists breaking the law actually makes traffic flow vastly better.
http://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules
When it comes down to it, if you're not going to abide by the laws of the road, you don't really have any right to moan about others breaking the law, regardless of what vehicle they happen to be in/on.
It’s the ultimate deceit by cyclists
All of them, yeah? 🙄
You think if every cyclist (“person on a bike”) suddenly started cycling entirely completely legally – not on the pavement, never jumped a light, always indicated, had correct pedal reflectors – that suddenly every motorist would show more respect?!
Because that’s total utter bollocks.
I also agree with this, we wouldn't get respect straight away. But we'd always have the higher ground and therefore smug factor!
Violation is not endemic, but 1 in 6 (16%) of cyclists do jump a red light
cf. "one in four (24 per cent) of motorists admit to having driven through a red light in the past 12 months — equivalent to 9.3 million motorists" (source)
also, if you want more interesting reading about behavioural change, this is very good
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/11/behaviour-is-tricky-subject-and-getting.html
"Generally, bad behaviour is a sign that cyclists don't have adequate infrastructure. Increasing cycling's infrastructure and profile is a good way to calm the traffic in more ways than one.
On the question of 'bad' behaviour, it exists although it's rather dull. When you have so many regular citizens on bicycles, the infractions are hardly provocative. Still, we see letters to the editors by older citizens complaining about 'those cyclists' rolling casually across pedestrian crossings or turning right on a red light, which is not allowed in Denmark - for cars or cyclists. Buy hey. Arrest me. I turn right on red if there are no pedestrians."
By cycling through a red light a cyclist throws away any moral superiority
Sorry. I wasnt aware that cycling was about moral superiority. I thought it was a means of transportation and entertainment. Isnt religion, veganism or (more effectively) charitable work what is normally used to get a sense of moral superiority.
The only people I see going on about cyclists being "morally superior" are those mouthbreathers complaining about how cyclists are lawbreakers. Showing a nice sense of moral superiority themselves since it implies they are nicely law abiding.
Nailed