[Closed] Cyclists are nothing

I think most folk just do not give a thought to anyone else.

Particularly when they are in a warmed steel box, on a comfy seat trying to listen to the radio.

matt is correct.
once inside their car most folk just become total ****ers. with no thought for anyone or anything else.

If it helps you out I stopped whilst driving my car for a lass who’s car had broken down at a set of temporary traffic lights. Given the lights had been red for a while it was only when the three cars between me and her drove around her and away that I could see she was in trouble and stopped. That’s three individual people who all saw the same thing and decided not to do anything.
Some people are just selfish.
Try not to be those people.

could have been a pregnant woman or a pensioner falling on the pavement and they still would have driven on, most people just don't care these days

Very similar happened to me outside a train station, came off rather hard on a diesel spill at a roundabout. I was lying on the inside lane of the roundabout, fair amount of claret spilled, cars and pedestrians left me to it. This is outside a busy train station during rush hour commuting time. The cars just drove around me, even getting themselves into a bit of a mess as they were having to move from the inside to the outside lane to avoid me.
I wasn’t badly hurt, but took a couple of moments to sort my head out. One pedestrian did come and help me by picking up my bike and asking if I was ok.
I don’t think people didn’t care because I was a cyclist, more that I was an inconvenience to them (but one who happened to be on a bike).

Mountain bikers are the same. When my wife smashed her collar bone they rode past and ignored us head down as if we weren't even there. Shits everywhere.

The last time I fell off on black ice the car behind me stopped to check I was ok.

Maybe where you live the locals are just much more selfish than Cambridgeshire.

A good few years ago I came into a roundabout a little fast on a wintry commute and the bike slid out under me. It's vanishingly rare I lose the bike but I'd come in a little too fast with someone driving up my chuff, and it was one of those days when it had been dry for a while and overnight rain had lifted the oils on the surface, maybe even a bit of diesel, so by the time the rippled surface (thanks HGVs) came into play as well it was a perfect storm. Another lesson learned.

I hit the ground quite hard towards the middle of the roundabout and the bike slid off to the outside. Not only did no-one stop to check I was alright, but everyone was more concerned with getting through the roundabout and driving between me and the bike, I couldn't even get up off the floor straight away because I was being passed so closely.

I'm always unhappily fascinated by the sheer extent of the psychological effect that sitting in a closed box has on people; you only have to look at the videos of people driving past bin lorries on the pavement or read the emergency services' tales of abuse they get when attending crashes to get a picture of it. And of course it's doubly problematic when that same box is a potent danger to anyone outside of it.

A few months back I witnessed the most slow speed crash I have ever seen. It was between a car and a motorbike and needless to say the biker hit the deck. He was quick to his feet and the woman in the car helped him out. I on the other hand did not deviate from my route home and took the left turn just before the incident. Almost every time I drive past where the incident happened it crosses my mind and i feel pretty disgusted at myself for not offering assistance.

I hope that all of those people who drove on by why the cyclist was on the ground feel just a shred of the remorse I feel and they wont think twice next time they see someone in need of help.

Mountain bikers are the same. When my wife smashed her collar bone they rode past and ignored us head down as if we weren’t even there. Shits everywhere.

It's a bit different ignoring someone who's fallen on their own in the street though isn't it?

I would still have asked if you needed anything but I would've felt I was intruding to do more, if somebody (you, I presume) was already helping her.

Weird isn't it?

People are actually generally quite nice and will help strangers, but cars seem to have a strange dampening effect on that empathy - or create a barrier to it.

Maybe people are half on autopilot and half thinking "oh well, I can't help because I'm in my car and I don't know where to stop" or whatever?

It’s a bit different ignoring someone who’s fallen on their own in the street though isn’t it?

I would still have asked if you needed anything but I would’ve felt I was intruding to do more, if somebody (you, I presume) was already helping her

except I was asking for help as they came past. Ingoring some asking for help is pretty shitty.

It's not new though. I did the same as Bez on the Haymarket roundabout in Newcastle in about 1983 in daytime, light rain after a dry period, heavy bus route and was like an ice rink. Came down hard, smashed my lights (bits of plastic and Ever Ready D cells across the road) and was dazed/stuck in the bike. No cars or buses stopped and no pedestrians (busy route next to university) took any notice.

6 of us last night at 11.30 fixing a puncture on a country road, young girl in a Fiat 500 stopped and asked if we were all ok-thanks if you were a cyclist yourself, it’s not all bad out there. Whittlesford near Cambridge by the way.

It is possible that since you were there, OP, people thought the situation was in hand. I've often seen incidents and driven/ridden/walked on because there are already people helping, and no-one needs a crowd of people all interfering. It might not have occurred to people that the guy would have needed a lift - you can't blame people for being dim, at least not too much.

I’m always unhappily fascinated by the sheer extent of the psychological effect that sitting in a closed box has on people

This however is true. People are total arseholes in cars. They are antisocial and aggressive, but when the very same people get out of the car and go round the shops they are all polite and nice. It's because having someone physically present and looking at you does something to your brain and you switch modes. Same reason people are such arseholes online.

It is possible that since you were there, OP, people thought the situation was in hand

That's probably very true.  In general though I'm not sure it is quite so bad.  I've stopped to pick up cyclists pushing their bikes before (punctures/no stuff) and I was helped by a driver when I dropped my bike on ice.  I think I'm a bit more hopeful otherwise it would get depressing very fast

except I was asking for help as they came past. Ingoring some asking for help is pretty shitty.

That is awful , not stopping for someone asking for help is more than pretty shitty

Came off at a roundabout few years back on my commute. I was mindful to get up off road sharpish to avoid being run over. hearing car slow down I looked round and the look of disdain I got for holding them up momentarily made me fear for the human race 🙁

it's not just cyclists. I'm sick of motorists accelerating at me or trying to cut around me when I'm crossing the road on foot. Apparently I'm supposed to dodge them even though i have right of way.

Reminds me of the crash that happened in front of me earlier in the year (no cyclists involved). Car pulled out of the junction into a 40mph limit road, must've thought the car coming was turning left, but no - t-boned them without any chance to slow down. I was about 4th in the queue of cars and was the only one to get out to go n see if all were ok. The rest just sat there gawping until I gestured to them to come and help.

Yup. A few years ago I was in my car behind another driver who drove into the side of someone on a bike, sending them flying (no significant injuries apparent at the time, fortunately).

I stopped and got out to check they were ok (the driver in front clearly having stopped anyway, and there were two lanes so the other one was still unobstructed) and a few seconds later got an earful of yelling from a Transit driver because YOU $%£^ YOU HAVENT PUT YOUR £%&$ HAZARDS ON before he buggered off in the perfectly functional lane alongside.

Mind you, that's nothing to the violent torrent of abuse I saw a woman subjected to in Steyning once, face-to face through an open window with her child in the car, by a lorry driver who had driven up a narrow lane marked "unsuitable for HGVs" at each end and aggressively forced her to reverse out of it, staying about an inch off her front bumper as she tried to do so. I mean, I've seen some rants but I've never seen or heard anything quite like this; I was regrettably frozen to the spot with a slack jaw and didn't think to take his plate and phone his employer.

I was on the bike nearby at the time, about to head down the same road, and I suspect that had he been faced with a male "cyclist", rather than a mum with her child in a big tin box, he would have gone straight to physical assault.

matt_outandabout

Subscriber

I think most folk just do not give a thought to anyone else.

I don't think they do it on purpose. A lot of people are simply drudgeons that operate on some kind of reactive NEED THIS -> DO THAT process, almost like an automatic reflex.

HUNGRY -> NEED SANDWICH -> GET IN CAR -> THING IN WAY -> DRIVE ROUND THING -> GET SANDWICH -> EAT SANDWICH

There's no thinking involved.
Honestly just watch next time you're in a supermarket, many people will completely block an aisle with their trolley then act completely surprised that somebody wants to get through.

The flip side to all this is the significant amount of people who really go above and beyond to help. I binned it once after hitting the edge of a pothole and so many people stopped to help, offered to give me a lift back home etc it got pretty embarrassing. Especially as all I'd done is got a bit winded and taken a whack to the gooch from the nose of the saddle when I slipped off the pedal.

Just to take away from the doom and gloom for a moment, when I crashed into the back of a tractor and knocked myself unconscious at least 4 people* stopped their cars to sort me & direct traffic until an ambulance came. One guy took my bike to the bike shop to get fixed and another came to the hospital to return some of my belongings that spilled on the road. Someone put their coat under me to keep me warm despite all the blood, and another managed to call my work and get them to contact my wife for me.

I think about the kindness shown to me by those strangers a lot.

*I think. Most of the memories were smashed out of my head.

For balance I also have been helped by strangers having come off the bike. And I've seen lots of people helping others at car accidents etc, so it does happen.

But not enough. Once my car conked out on a roundabout (no, not that car) and I had to try and push it from the inside lane. No ****er stopped to help me push, but even worse no-one even slowed down to allow me to push my own car to the verge. I was in their way, and yet they wouldn't even let me get myself out of their way. FFS.

Mountain bikers are the same. When my wife smashed her collar bone they rode past and ignored us head down as if we weren’t even there. Shits everywhere.

This is exactly what happened to us, 12 mountain bikers road past my wife after she broke her shoulder, covered in blood after coming off her bike in Wales, I was ahead of her and waiting, 12 riders came out of the section then my wife pushing her bike while struggling to hold her arm up.we on the other hand have helped others with first aid when we’ve seen them come off there bikes.

Never hit a car but when I crashed last August and broke my CB and some ribs my supposed cycling buddies just prodded me; said "Yeah, collar bone. Can you ride home?" and then once we reached a local cafe (courtesy of a marshall who was at the corner for a BC race and drove me there in his car) they allowed me to sit shivering and in shock then made me pay for the coffees. Three of our respective wives were disgusted at their lack of care and I don't ride with them any more.

I do carry a spare road inner tube in the car and certainly will when I move to Scotland as distances are big there. Have stopped a couple of times for cyclists and even gave one a lift home where his wife was standing on the doorstep tapping her foot and demanding loudly: "Okay - so what's he done THIS time?"

So were all these MTB ****er experiences at trail centres?

You do tend to get unsocial groups of bell ends at them, I've noticed. Wouldn't be surprised to hear some had ridden past an injured rider to make sure they were dropping into the next descent first.

Bit like the drivers being too fixated on getting to/from work to stop, perhaps?

I don’t ride with them any more

No shit! What a bunch of dicks.

Mountain bikers are the same.

Thats generalist BS.  When I was knocked off at speed in Exmoor 2018, despite the fact the cock went "you alright mate?" before riding off whilst I had blood spurting out of my arm and knee, 4-5 riders behind me all stopped to help.

Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I do carry a spare road inner tube in the car and certainly will when I move to Scotland as distances are big there. Have stopped a couple of times for cyclists and even gave one a lift home where his wife was standing on the doorstep tapping her foot and demanding loudly: “Okay – so what’s he done THIS time?”

I've stopped a few times in the car for stranded cyclists. Usually if I'm driving I've got the bike (and associated toolkit, spares etc) with me as I'll either be going to or from a ride.

Stopped once on Cragg Vale in fairly rubbish conditions by two cyclists who were freezing cold after fixing a puncture. They nearly cried with relief when I got the track pump out of the boot!

If I'm driving and see a rider in that sort of situation I'll always stop if I can. Felt bad once when I couldn't find any layby, junction etc and had a car right up my arse. By the time I found somewhere safe to pull in I was about 2 miles past the rider... Oops.

People are total arseholes in cars. They are antisocial and aggressive, but when the very same people get out of the car and go round the shops they are all polite and nice. It

For some, that's true. Some stay the same arsehole. Depends how impervious they feel when they are out of their car. The car makes them feel invulnerable, as does the internet. Doesn't affect everyone the same way.

On the upside no one had a commute worse than this guy

https://mobile.twitter.com/blogTO/status/1199023791055265793

Last time I came off on black ice the car behind pulled up alongside, wound the window down and said "watch out mate, lots of black ice about" then drove away. I was to flabbergasted to come up with a witty retort

Thats generalist BS.

No they were definitely Mountain Bikers.

Didn't say ALL.

Thats generalist BS.

Yep Mountain Bikers are as shitty, uncaring and selfish as car drivers who are as shitty,uncaring and selfish as a typical brit.

About two years ago my rear hub fell apart on a road ride, I was out near mam for and about 19 miles from home, so had a long walk ahead. It was a sunday afternoon and plenty of cars and cyclists went past without appearing to notice me walking along the side of the road. Then a van driver stopped asked what was up, he was heading to Manchester but detoured in the opposite direction to get me home, he was certainly no cyclist and wouldn't take any cash for fuel or his trouble. Proper nice fellow. Being a good human has very little to do with the mode of transport one uses, imo.

I came off my bike in the wet on a roundabout, a human driving a car stopped their car and got out to check I was ok, which I was. So that was nice.

Echoing people's sentiments on not helping when asked.. First time i broke my arm, 10 years old, come off my bike down a back lane near home. Cut up face, missing tooth, wrist had a rather gruesome kink in it. Flagged down a passing local paper delivery van, who refused to help and drove off because he had a "schedule to keep". Shitty human.

It’s been a while since I hit the deck hard in public. Was on some slimey slabs near a leisure centre. Body made a big slap as it was a very fast conversion from ‘upright’ to ‘flat’. Bike frame dented my shin like a weird ice-cream scoop. I lay thee for a small while, mildly shocked and stunned There were some expected giggles from a bunch of youths. A few disinterested drivers avoided my head, bless em
Expect nothing, enjoy life. Give what you'd love to receive.

It's this reason I stopped bike commuting after ~15years, the feeling of being sub human and the amount of close passes where people clearly just don't give a shit about the safety of a fellow human where making me depressed. Happier now sat in stationary traffic in a metal box. They've won.

I saw a broken down motorbiker, stopped to see if he was ok and crashed on the kerb next to him which was hidden with leaves...oh how we laughed!

Once most people get in a car they become angry as **** just wanting to get to their destination as quick as possible

I was turning right into a side road when I skidded on what I think was diesel, came off my bike within a couple of metres of a car approaching the same junction. I’d hit my head hard enough to break my helmet, grazed one side of my face and cut my knees and hands. The driver had his window open as he drove on. He could plainly see what had happened but totally ignored me. A young woman in another car pulled over and asked if I was ok, needed a lift, etc, while the couple of cars behind her were beeping their horns at her for stopping in front of them!

TBH a few years ago when I went over on an ungritted roundabout on the A4 I was quite thankful that the drivers steered round me and carried on, it was obviously Icey so braking distances can't be counted on and if following vehicles (normally a bit too close round our way) have to contend with sudden braking in front I'd rather not have several tons of metal sliding towards me while I'm on my arse in the gutter...

A nice lady pulled round a corner carefully and walked back up to see if I was OK.

It's not just cyclists.
Once, the vehicle that I was following was hit, head on, by a car coming the other way, which had swerved across the road.
It was a real mess, and the driver of the swerving car was bleeding heavily, and trapped in the car. The driver of the car that I'd been following, got out of the car herself, but sat on the floor, leaning against her car.
I made sure she was (relatively) ok, before going to comfort the other driver until the emergency services arrived.
Luckily, it was only a 2 minute drive from the Police depot in Goldstone, so help was there pretty quickly.
During the whole time, I was the only person, out of the dozens of vehicles halted by the incident, who got out to help.
When the police started taking statements, it turned out that the driver of the car behind the swerving car was a nurse - who just sat there and did nothing

Serious WTF moment.

.

Genuine question.

Is part of this to do with the fear of liability? The sort of "what if I help and it all goes wrong?"

Or is it that people just freeze in the moment, they're completely clueless - no training in any sort of "crisis management"?

Possibly a fear that it's some kind of prank or crime against them? Everyone has seen the social media posts about not stopping to help a lone person on a back road in case a dozen blokes jump out of the dark and mug you - is that a factor?

Or is it just many people really are genuinely too selfish to care about anyone else?

I don't know myself, be interesting to find out. The only time I've ever experienced something similar was when I hit a pedestrian in Deansgate - she ran straight out in front of me without looking. I was sent flying; she got up, looked at me lying on the floor and ****ed off sharpish. No-one cared about me lying there, no-one came to help me up or pick up the bike...

As a counter to the OP I had a better experience. Going down a hill on the road bike, front blows out straight on to the rim, I wobble but eventually high side at 30mph and slide down the road. Driver behind stopped as did others rang ambulance and then local took the bike in and gave me a blanket, people waited with me for 40 mins until the local police driving by stopped and took over until the ambulance turned up.

Some people drive by, some don't. Some will go out of their way to help someone in trouble some won't.

Or is it that people just freeze in the moment, they’re completely clueless – no training in any sort of “crisis management”?

It's this. What Iain Banks referred to as an OCP - Outside Context Problem. Something that happens that is not part of what you can deal with from your own experience, so you just don't know what to do and ignore it.

The people who stop and help will probably people who've been called on in their jobs or lives to step in and take control of situations - not necessarily emergencies but even professional situations. I see it at work - a room full of people going 'er, dunno what to do' or staring at their phones, then someone stands up and goes 'right, this is what we're going to do'.

Is part of this to do with the fear of liability? The sort of “what if I help and it all goes wrong?”

There is generally some variation of the Good Samaritan laws that cover that, so I can't really see it.

in their jobs or lives to step in and take control of situations – not necessarily emergencies but even professional situations

It's more about personality. Both the empathy, or whatever you ean to call it, and calmness to see what needs doing and do it, even if you don't know what to do.
I'm 4 for 4 on CPR, first occasion was when I was a teenager. There is no amount of training or lateral experience that can truly prepare you for that. You just do it.

It’s more about personality. Both the empathy, or whatever you ean to call it, and calmness to see what needs doing and do it, even if you don’t know what to do.

Yeah, true, people who tend towards sorting things out and stepping in end up doing it for work, which reinforces the situation. Several times as a youth, say 18 years old I found myself struggling to know what to do in admittedly minor situations. Some woman in the station dropped a load of shopping, and we just sort of stood there unsure if she'd want the help or would rather us stay out of her business. She angrily informed us that it was the former in the end, but it takes experience sometimes.

18 years old I found myself struggling to know what to do in admittedly minor situations

As you say wxperience. Also people have different degrees of confidence/ comfort/ outgoingingness, for lack of a better word, to offer help whenever and to not be affected if you get told to bugger off. I certainly had that more and younger than most of my mates and I think as you do more in life you develop more.

On my commute into London a few years ago I came into a roundabout in Richmond Park with a bit too much speed. It had rained briefly following a long dry spell. Bike slid out and I hit my head on the deck (very grateful for the helmet that day). Picked myself up and walked to the side of the road and a lovely lady who had been behind me pulled over in her car to ask if I was OK. Yes, this was in London. Restored my faith in the human race.

There are both good people and inconsiderate people out there and they use all forms of transport.

IME people have always come to my aid after a crash. Once knocked myself unconscious in Epping Forest and two kindly ladies lay a blanket over me and waited until the ambulance came. They even took my bike home with them so I could pick it up after leaving hospital.

On the other hand a client of mine told me the reason he was late for his appointment was because he had helped an old man who had tripped and smashed his face up while crossing the road at a crossing. The two cars in front of my client had simply driven round the Poor old chap while he lay bleeding on the road!

It's funny how up in arms some people on here get about stereotyping, yet they find it perfectly OK to stereotype all drivers as selfish [insert pejorative noun].

JP

My last two crashes whilst commuting on the road have resulted in drivers stopping and asking if I was ok. The first was a heavy tumble on the tram tracks here in Sheffield. The woman driving behind me actually pulled over to see how I was, even offering a lift to minor injuries.

The second was on a roundabout, and a bloke slowed right down, asked if I was ok. I told him I was fine and he went on his way.

They aren't all shit.

Genuine question.

Is part of this to do with the fear of liability?

In the case of the nurse in the post above yours probably yes. there is a myth built up around this that makes nurses frightened to intervene. Its complete bollox but its a pervasive myth

A nurse friend of mine did step in when a lad crashed a moped in London as she was driving home.

He had a bad head injury and died in her arms.

I know for sure that all my nurse friends would have done the same. Does it make any difference that they are all Irish though?

Some nurses do not buy the myth and some have enough morals to ignore it.

I stop if I see someone injured. Always. You can actually get into serious professional bother if you do not. However this myth exists that if you intervene and the person dies or is left with a injury you could be sued. Its utter bolloxs but for some weird reason it persists and I have heard nurse tutors spreading it.

Agreed
Car crash outside my house . 3 dead , rushed out to see if I could do anything , but the severity ( spade into neck ) meant not even Jesus could save the poor man
Told my mum, she said ' You could only have made it worse' .
Really , whats worse than being killed to death by a folding spade being launched into your neck as your car decellerates from 60mph to 0 in 1 second?
And why have zero faith in me as a person not to be able to help in a first aid situation if its an arterial bleed

but this is partly down the negatiivity and can't do attitude that was impresssed upon us by both my mum and dad

My last crash my chain jumped under high load away from the lights, cue OTB and face to tarmac. 2 strangers immediately stopped and helped me looked for my tooth (some of it turned out to be in my beard) followed by 5 separate people from work, made quite the mess of the traffic!

Was nice until the guy who was hassling me away from the lights started repeating to all and sundry that he hadn't touched me...

It is all down to people being arseholes.

Yesterday afternoon I was driving with my kids in the car near me. We were following someone in a Merc. We went around a right angle blind corner in a 30mph limit. The limit carries on for about 200 yards after the corner. You cannot safely go around the corner at more than about 15mph. The car slowed for the corner appropriately but about 100 yards further on there was an elderly man crossing the road. I can only guess that the Merc driver somehow felt he was being impeded as he sped up to 30mph and sounded his horn at the pedestrian when he then had to slow down.

Credit to the old boy, though, he just gave the driver a look of contempt and carried on.

My daughter said “why did that car beep at the man crossing the road?”

She doesn’t know ‘that word’ yet, so I couldn’t answer accurately.