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just wondered what the consensus is when you're cycling and overtaking/ undertaking?
I've cycled to work for a few years and have always stayed in the left hand side at all times, as that's where the bike lanes are. Im also not a fan of cycling in the middle of the road or weaving in and out of traffic.
so I've always effectively been undertaking slow moving or stationary traffic. I've looked at Highway code and Rule 163 appears to suggest this is acceptable however its not clear.
yesterday the roads around Manchester were gridlocked so I was tootling along in the bike lane when at least 3 cars suddenly turned left across my path, apparently looking for a diversion from the traffic. I had front and rear lights on but I was thinking if I was in the wrong as I was undertaking.
surely the bike lanes are to be used at all times (when they're there) and are inviolable for other traffic?
If that's the case, and we're not allowed to undertake, then are we expected to suddenly veer right into the middle of the road when a bike lane ends?
My own opinion is that undertaking is permissible, particularly when we're correctly proceeding in a bike lane, on common sense grounds but is there a regulation on the issue.
would we be in a stronger position legally if we're in a bike lane when a motorist turns left into a collision, as opposed to no bike lane?
I spose the answer is that motorists need to be aware of passing cyclists on the left, although that could take generations, and we need to ride defensively and with high visibility
Go wherever safest for you and assume you are invisible. Today I undertook and overtook, as I do most days. Undertaking can be fatal, but if everyone's waiting to turn right and the left side is clear (no bike lane) then I undertake.
Depends on the road layout. I prefer going down the outside but you still have to watch for people turning right and also for traffic emerging through the traffic from junctions on the left.
Traffic is more used to you being on the right of it - it's where a motorcycle would go. Very few people ever bother to look in the left-hand wing mirror before making a turn.
One essential tool is a flashing front light. It's way more distinctive than a constant one and even if drivers aren't specifically looking, it bounces off road signs in front, reflects off their mirrors and immediately gets their attention.
I routinely get people pulling to one side to let me through - if ever I'm filtering the light goes straight onto pulse mode then I'll put it back to constant when I'm on a clear road again.
And never ever go up the inside of buses or lorries, no matter where the cycle lane leads.
Not sure if you're trolling here!
Most bike lanes are shocking, put you directly in the door zone of parked cars. Motorists are forever flashing people out as you're motoring along, with a queue of traffic down one side and a kerb on the other you've never got anywhere to go to react to numpty drivers.
If i'm filtering down the inside i'm generally going <10mph and the traffic is stationary. My speed reflects the fact that my only option to avoid danger is to brake. If i'm going to be going a bit faster, as I generally am i'll be overtaking. You've got more room to maneuver and space to avoid idiots, you've far more visible and your visibility is better, especially to spot oncoming cars turning right across the traffic.
TL;DR, you're doing it wrong 😉
I ride where ever I feel is safest. In general I would say the right is better than the left (over rather than under) because that is what people expect.
People rearely check there mirrors before turning left so if you are going down the inside then people are likely to cut across you. Having said that going down the outside I've had people just swing right without warning and people coming the otherway turn across into me.
I rarely undertake leading up to lights and junctions. The only real exceptions to this are are my commute where I know the road and the light sequence so I know if I have time to get to the front of the queue into an ASL.
As above. There is no one correct answer. You need to judge each case on its merits. Always look ahead though and be ready to move from outside to inside when you see the traffic up ahead starting to move or the lights changing to green.
Crazy-legs +1
I suspect this one will garner a fair few replies.
My position is: do whatever is safest at the time.
Undertaking can be dangerous because drivers rarely check the left mirror, so I'd avoid doing it when passing side roads on the left. And [i]never ever[/i] undertake large vehicles like buses or HGVs. Even if they are not turning they could squeeze you against railings, lamposts etc without even noticing.
Overtaking is dangerous too though. Drivers rarely check their blindspots properly and often don't expect traffic on their right when there isn't another lane.
always remember that bike lanes were 'designed' by clueless morons with [i]at best[/i] zero respect for your safety, At worst an active desire to see you killed.
get insurance; bcf or ctc, pick one, flip a coin, however you choose is cool, but do choose.
proceed with caution, listen to your spider-sense.
Depending on traffic / location I'll either wait in the dominant road position (behind no. plate) or overtake on the right fastish or carefully shuffle up on the left.
Out of those the left shuffle feels the least safe due to risk of getting doored or squished when I'm ignored as the traffic moves or most recently cars deciding to drive half on the pavement.
My worst habit is not always checking right shoulder when when taking the white line right side option. I'm working on that one.
still don't fancy overtaking, rather than undertaking. I'll only do it when I can hop on the pavement if I have to avoid a collision. Just being in the middle of the road at rush hour seems like a world of pain with short fused drivers.
might have to get a pulsing front light - the obvious shortcut is just to let my light run down so it does a low charge flickering 🙂
I pretty much always pass on the right hand side. Where there are bike lanes I often don't use them as they are badly designed and put you in a more dangerous place than staying with the main traffic flows.
With planning and anticipation I don't find I'm "weaving in and out of traffic" and tbh, the biggest hazards are (1) right turning traffic coming out of side roads on the left, being "flashed out" by the traffic on my side and (2) bloody weaving-in-and-out cyclists not shoulder checking before pulling out in front of me to pass on the right.
would we be in a stronger position legally if we're in a bike lane when a motorist turns left into a collision, as opposed to no bike lane?
Probably yes but in my opinion this is the wrong question - I'd be asking whether it would hurt any less, to which the answer is clearly a "no". I don't want my last words on this earth to be "but I had right of way"
The flashy headlight thing crazy-legs brought up above works for me too.
As a general rule I do not undertake at all as it's too risky. If I am as sure as can be that it is safe I will do it, but only with care.
More than happy to overtake / filter down the middle - people tend to do less unpredictable things in the middle of the road + there are (normally) no pedestrians to worry about!
+1 for the flashing light. And as someone who drives a van a lot, please remember that particularly with dark nights at rush hour, although I can maybe see your light, if you are filtering through traffic distance is difficult for me to judge as are your intentions. Usually all I can see in my mirrors are (badly adjusted) car lights
I would echo much of the above, I tend more to overtaking as I feel a whole lot safer there but will undertake if I feel it's safer. I'll also just sit and wait in line if that is safer still.
As others whatever is safest and both have risks - at all times i do that which leaves me the least likely to be hit
Problem with the inside is you have nowhere to escape to and cars creepign out at junctions block you and cars often pull into your lane/space
On the outside you have cars soming in the opposite direction
i usually end up weaving in very slow/stationary traffic as the road position of cars is poor.
As Graham S notes I am reluctant to ever pass on either side a truck or bus or long vehicle unless it is gridlock.
Passing on the left is dangerous because drivers rarely check their wing mirror/blindspot before maneuvering.
Passing on the right is dangerous because drivers rarely check their wing mirror/blindspot before maneuvering.
As long as you consider the above points, you'll be fine 🙂
I filter on the left if the traffic is stationary and I can see well ahead. I do it carefully, and keep an eye out for sudden left turners or cars entering/leaving side roads.
I filter on the right if the traffic is stationary and I can see well ahead. I do it carefully, and keep an eye out for sudden right turners or cars entering/leaving side roads.
Not sure if anyone said this yet, but IMO overtaking on the right is best, only if you can keep pace with the traffic when it moves away from lights/stoppages etc, and slot back in once it's moving. Getting stuck in the middle with traffic undertaking you is a serious danger. If you can't keep pace with the traffic, then stick to the left and go slowly. As others have said, don't go flying up the inside, cycle lane or not. I did that once and ended up on the bonnet of a car turning right through a gap.
as said previously i ride wherever i feel its safest to do so and where i think i have the best chance if being noticed. if there is space to undertake on the left and its safe to do so then i will, but other times i will weave through the middle of 2 lanes or go on right hand side.
i try to avoid under or overtaking buses and trucks unless theyre at a complete standstill and there is space to safely pass them...had too many near misses
what really gets my goat is the increasing number of ingorant idiot drivers who think its perfectly acceptable to stop their vehicle on the ALS's...i caught a copper doing it last night on Oxford Road, Manchester...when i passed him and stopped in front of him he gave me a dirty look as if to say i was in the wrong!! the tosser
EDIT: i leave my lights on flash as drivers seem to notice it more than a constant beam
Id deffo recommend a flashing light in an urban environment. Possibly less so on the open road.
Did quite a long night road ride the other week, around towns constant light augmented with a flashing light, out of town just a constant light.
Oh and assume that people haven't seen you or are going to do something unexpected and you'll be fine. You tend to develop a sixth sense after a bit of practice.
Which ever is safest . About 7 years ago I was ridding in overtaking on the right past a row of crawling cars when a Muppet decided to shoot out of the cue into a side road on the right no signal no mirror check just turned right straight into me as I was passing . That night after a couple of wasted hours in A and E and a painful day at work I rode home filtering on the inside of the homebound cue when a second Muppet decided to swerve left into the mouth of an empty junction to get a bigger swing on a u turn side swiping me for a second hit in the day again no mirror no signal well she did signal but it was a right indication as she swung left.
Bring on driverless cars.
I've been commuting on bike for about 4 years now and have managed to stay out of trouble, touch wood, and you're right you do develop a sixth sense.
I tend to go slowly in the city centre and in traffic so I can anticipate and react to anything unexpected. The amount of 'racers' who bomb around as well as go thru red lights though - pretty daft
you do feel like pointing out the irony to someone who's just gone through a red light wearing a high vis jacket
the increasing number of ingorant idiot drivers who think its perfectly acceptable to stop their vehicle on the ALS's...i caught a copper doing it last night on Oxford Road, Manchester..
Yep. But be careful accusing them as it [i]is[/i] actually legal to stop inside the ASL box (i.e. if you crossed the first line while the lights were still green or they were amber but you couldn't safely stop for the first line).
I'd prefer it if the law required motorists to treat ASL boxes the same as the hatching on box junctions: no stopping, don't enter unless your exit is clear.
But being as most people seem to blindly ignore that too I doubt it would make much odds. 🙁
I tend to overtake, there's too many slow cyclists riding in the gutter to undertake.
I tend to go slowly in the city centre and in traffic so I can anticipate and react to anything unexpected. The amount of 'racers' who bomb around as well as go thru red lights though - pretty daft
Whilst tottering up the left hand side of traffic is somehow sensible...?
Jumping red lights is stupid, but IMO you're best riding assertively, rather than being timid. You can ride at a reasonable speed if you're concentrating without it being more risky. Have the confidence to overtake, rather than under take traffic is one of the skills which makes urban riding safer IMO.
Yep. But be careful accusing them as it is actually legal to stop inside the ASL box (i.e. if you crossed the first line while the lights were still green or they were amber but you couldn't safely stop for the first line).
normally i'd accept this but if i were in slow moving traffic and one came up i wouldnt stop my car on this...i'd stop behind this so it allows any cyclists behind me to get ahead of me where i can see them...just like the yellow box junctions...you wouldnt just drive over one in slow moving traffic just in case the lights change and you get caught stuck in one.
but back to last nights copper...the lights were already red before he got to the lights...he simply decided thats where he was going to stop his car
.the lights were already red before he got to the lights...he simply decided thats where he was going to stop his car
In that case he broke the law.
Any motorcyclist knows you don't filter on the left.
You especially don't filter on the left of large vehicles.
You especially don't filter on the left near a turning on the left.
That said, motorcyclists [i]will [/i]do all of the above on occasion, but in the solid knowledge that it's dicey and so will want to be extra [i]extra [/i]sure before going for it. Filtering on the left as a matter of course is not a good idea at all.
you do feel like pointing out the irony to someone who's just gone through a red light wearing a high vis jacket
safer than running reds wearing black!
Whichever way you go, do it at a slow speed and engage full spidey sense mode.
[quote=nedrapier ]
you do feel like pointing out the irony to someone who's just gone through a red light wearing a high vis jacket
safer than running reds wearing black!
Ah, but the question is; is it safer than wearing black and stopping for red lights?
I followed a chap down the road this afternoon who was riding so far to the left he was actually between the yellow line and the kerb. He maintained this position over a narrow bridge while there were cars right behind him who, fortunately, stayed back and didn't overtake. Over the same bridge, I usually take primary.
Ms njee20 is terrible for that - puts herself right in the gutter, then gets fazed by cars squeezing through.
As others have said it depends on the situation, I only ever go left if I know the lights aren't going to change, very seldom go on the outside of traffic, so essentially on the white line, sometimes up the middle again only if I know the lights won't change. But generally unless its a big queue I set in the primary position in the line of traffic.
I see people on my commute doing the stupidest moves on their bikes, because they believe the cycle path is the only option open to them and that they must move into the ASL. Most of the time sitting in the traffic is the safest option, for me anyway.
Most of the time sitting in the traffic is the safest option, for me anyway.
What's the point though? You have the ability to move past the traffic, why would you wait in it?
I would wait in traffic if, for example, if my lane was stationary but there was very little room and oncoming traffic was flowing normally.
I saw a young guy on a moped with L plates the other day filtering up the right of a lane of traffic 99% of which was waiting to turn right at a mini-roundabout. He then proceeded to turn left in front of the lead car once he'd got to the head of the queue. [i]Almost[/i] ended very badly!
[i]You have the ability to move past the traffic, why would you wait in it? [/i]
umm it's the safest option. Whats the point in moving to the ASL, setting off, cars pass, I catch up at next set of lights, move to ASL. There's nothing to be gained by filtering through traffic in this instance.
In many cases ASL's on my route have a few wobbly slow cyclists in them, whats the point in getting in the same space as them if I don't need to. Well they did until it started getting dark and wet.
in order to increase the chances of being seen by motorists at night time is it worth investing in these types of spoke reflectors?
[img] 
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There's nothing to be gained by filtering through traffic in this instance.
In which instance? The one you'd not mentioned...? The OP said:
yesterday the roads around Manchester were gridlocked
Why not just drive if you're going to sit in traffic?
Those spoke reflectors seem like a good idea if they are well implemented (i.e. not noisy, not flappy, stay on properly)
The fact the demo image is photoshopped doesn't fill me with hope.
I used to tyres with reflective sidewalls for the same effect. They worked well.
Those spoke reflectors seem like a good idea if they are well implemented (i.e. not noisy, not flappy, stay on properly)
A couple of guys at work have them, they look good, they are distinctive.
they seem to work on this wheel...the 3M Scotchlite ones are about £6-8 for a pack of 36 from Amazon...seems a small price to pay for a bit of extra safety/visibility
Are you being deliberately argumentative njee20 or are you just failing to read posts properly? Did you see the bit that said 'for me anyway' and 'generally unless its a big queue'.
[i]In which instance? The one you'd not mentioned...?[/i] - If you read the bit before 'in this instance' you may understand what I'm referring to.
The OP asked 'just wondered what the consensus is when you're cycling and overtaking/ undertaking?' - I'm pretty sure my response replies to that question.
I'll start driving instead though as me sitting behind 3 cars is clearly wasting my valuable time.
To be fair actually, there are times when I'd agree with Gary_M and not bother filtering/overtaking.
eg: set of traffic lights at red, clear road ahead. There's no point me overtaking/filtering past all those cars to the front of the queue, stopping, getting going again and having an F1 starting grid behind me all desperate to overtake.
If however traffic ahead is slower moving, the road is busy etc then yes I'll filter through cos I know I can mingle in with the traffic ahead and not cause any inconvenience or increase the danger I'm exposed to.
I don't think there's any one right answer - I'll ride according to the road conditions, traffic conditions, weather, type of bike I'm on (I ride very differently in London if I'm on a Boris Bike as opposed to my SS road bike).
Thats pretty much where I'm coming from crazy-legs, I don't always wait in a queue and I don't always filter, every junction is different.
What's the point in moving to the ASL, setting off, cars pass, I catch up at next set of lights, move to ASL. There's nothing to be gained by filtering through traffic in this instance.
I'd rather set off in clean air every time than constantly setting off through the exhaust produced by accelerating 15 tonnes of metal. Even more if there are any buses or trucks in the queue
In many cases ASL's on my route have a few wobbly slow cyclists in them, whats the point in getting in the same space as them if I don't need to.
If they're that slow, you'll be in front of them quickly and off and away, rather than stuck behind cars stuck behind cyclists. I'll get to the box and stomp off smartly to get out of the "who's going to go in front of whom" dithering fun while everyone strings out.
And as I overtake 200-300+ vehicles everyday, against the 0 - 30 that might (temporarily) overtake me, any suggestion that I'm being cheeky, or impatient or getting above my station by moving to the front of queues is ridiculous.
Edit: just climbing off the old hoss for a moment: this is my reality of my route to work. 6 miles each way, 26 sets of lights and a few ped x-ings. Most of it 20mph limited.
As I said every junction is different, I don't sit in traffic that isn't moving and I didn't suggest I did.
20 miles each way, lots of traffic lights for 8 miles, 12 miles of no lights, traffic or otherwise. In the urban bit, 40 mph limit on a single carriageway, then 30mph with traffic lights all over the place.