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A recent (horrifying, view with caution) incident in Birmingham raises questions.
*Edit - Pleased to see the speed at which passers-by responded with help. Although not convinced that hurriedly heaving the car off the victim in the first instance is advised, gods it’s a tough call...?
It's called overtaking. And yeah, when safe and appropriate I do.
Jeeeez that ain't nice.
In that scenario i'll usually jump on the pavement. If not, then yes, probably exactly what they did.
Yes but I assume that drivers are likely to do stupid things! That’s hideous. It’s CCTV, hence the filming.
Yep, I overtake slow cars when it seems appropriate to do so.
Looks nasty that 😮
Yes always. However only when the traffic is stationary or less than walking pace and I will go past slowly overtaking each car in turn so there is not much of a speed differential.
Also look into each car to see if they are going to make a turn. Sometimes you spot indication they are going to.
WRT the video, odd that the first guy on the scene immediately opens the passenger door before doing anything else. Looks like he is trying to get the driver to stop as he runs across and maybe puts on the handbrake.
In terms of filtering. Yes I do it. I treat it as overtaking (regardless of side) and am very wary of other cars and what they may do. Keep looking, keep second guessing any moves, observe and respect anyone that is indicating. Still a risk though and there is some crazy driving out there.
CCTV
Doh! I saw the camera motion and heard ambient noise so didn't trust the title, now realise there is a timestamp and it’s a recording of a playback via screen. Thanks! Edited my OP.
(filtering)Still a big risk though and there is some crazy driving out there.
That’s my take home. I don’t often risk it these days.
possible use of car as weapon - 30 months :
That does look nasty...and I do exactly the same every time I commute.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel safer on the right as people generally indicate and look if they’re turning right where people often just turn left without looking.
Jeaasuuss!! WTAF! Horrific!
But aside from having the share the planet with these zombies, yep always filter down the middle.
I got "doored" couple months back whilst rolling up the inside of stationary traffic, but it was a f...ing cycle lane. Builders mate decided to jump out in traffic, flung door, wham. My fault of course, being as I'm fair game (a cyclist).
Willing to bet that's some doddery old ducker that should have stopped driving years ago. Horrible 🙁
But aside from having the share the planet with these zombies
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault. Sure, arguably they should have looked.... But even if they did, doesn't necessarily follow that by the time they moved 4-5s later they'd have spotted the cyclist.
Past slow-moving traffic? No, never.
Past stationary vehicles? Only on two conditions: one, I need to be certain I can be in a position where I'm not alongside a vehicle when the traffic starts moving; and two, there needs to be a worthwhile benefit (ie a really big queue, at the very least longer than can get through the next phase of the lights). In effect this amounts to almost never.
There are times when I'll overtake slow-moving traffic as I would in a car, ie by moving into the oncoming lane and riding past (there is one place where this often happens on my way into work), but that's not filtering.
It's worth noting that different environments encourage different behaviour. When I used to ride in London I'd be more inclined to weave through queues, because otherwise you're just sitting still with an exhaust pipe in your face. Anywhere else I've ridden, there's rarely any point.
I try and go on the pavement if it's suitable. If not then I will overtake cars on the right if they are very slow moving into gaps where possible.
Anyone know what happened to the cyclist in the video.
in that sort of stop start situation I would be only overtaking as the cars were stationary or rolling to a halt - as they start to move I would be sitting alongside the gaps ready to move in - and of course as well as looking at and into the car I am overtaking looking as far ahead as I can to see what it going to happen to prepare for the next move.
Bez - In edinbugh there are places where you would filter past enough cars to save two changes of the lights or more - and queensferry road in rush hour you can overtake hundreds of cars.
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault. Sure, arguably they should have looked
What?!?!?! Mirror, signal, action. The driver did neither of the first 2 so is entirely at fault. You can't pull a move like that without looking.
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault.
A bit early to be on the sherry old boy?.
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault.
Apart from not noticing they'd hit something and running a person over and driving with them stuck under their car for a good few seconds they were doing just fine yeah.
Good grief!!
Really hope the cyclist was/is ok
I filter past traffic every day.
I actually hit my hand on a parked car's mirror this morning as the gap was so tight. Amusingly, I was on a bit of road with white bicycles painted on it at the time.
It would be moronic to sit behind the queues of traffic on my commute - I'd be late for ****ing work.
I try not to ride on the road if I can help it, mainly because it's pants, but if it's unavoidable I make myself as wide as possible and filter if it's safe-ish. I'm pretty comfortable in traffic (uni years spent riding through Newcastle) but I'd prefer not to have to.
After the Focus (eventually) stops in the video - you can see that it was indicating. So that cyclist should've been aware of their intention to turn really.
I notice if an acorn or stone hits my car. I'm amazed they didn't notice the man and bike hitting them! And then continue driving up into that person's driveway 😣
weeksy
Subscriber
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault. Sure, arguably they should have looked…. But even if they did, doesn’t necessarily follow that by the time they moved 4-5s later they’d have spotted the cyclist.
Not a driver I assume? It's always the manoeuvrers responsibility to check before carry out the manoeuver.
What TJ said. Speed differential is the problem.
Bez – In edinbugh there are places where you would filter past enough cars to save two changes of the lights or more – and queensferry road in rush hour you can overtake hundreds of cars.
Are you thinking that this somehow isn’t entirely compatible with what I said? 🙂
Hits the cyclist at 16 seconds and stops car at 21 seconds, that's 5 seconds, not even close to normal reaction times!
I do filter in traffic on commutes though, you have to these days with cycle lanes in many places, but you do have to be so aware of your surroundings, so knowing of the turns, looking for parked up vehicles and so on, and watching out for the idiots trying to stop you filtering by getting their cars right up against the kerb.
Anyone have a link to the law/code regarding filtering/passing (on the right?)
The driver could well have looked but the cyclist may have been in his blind spot. I am not sure how good the side mirrors are on modern cars but I have those blind spot mirrors on mine. Hopefully all new cars do too.
I do filter in traffic on commutes though, you have to these days with cycle lanes in many places, but you do have to be so aware of your surroundings, so knowing of the turns, looking for parked up vehicles and so on, and watching out for the idiots trying to stop you filtering by getting their cars right up against the kerb
This. Obviously.
Anyone have a link to the law/code regarding filtering/passing (on the right?)
Overtaking?
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-the-road-overtaking.html
I actually hit my hand on a parked car’s mirror this morning as the gap was so tight. It would be moronic to sit behind the queues of traffic on my commute – I’d be late for **** work.
Aren’t you basically saying you get out of bed too late and as a result you’re in such a rush that you crash into things? 🙂
Bez - you saying it rarely acheives anything - my experience is it saves a great deal of time. thats all
Not convinced for a second the car driver was much at fault.
So if you were driving along and went to overtake 2 cars and the car in front of you pulled out as you were passing them to overtake the first car and put you through a hedge and into a field or smashed you into a wall the first thing you'd do providing you were still alive is to go over to apologise to the driver who'd just taken you out!
The wisdom of passing moving traffic on a bike is another thing, it needs to be done slowly and very carefully if at all. Personally I'd only pass stationary traffic.
Legally the car driver is clearly in the wrong. However if I was that cyclist and applying the rules of reflective practice ie "what went wrong, how could I have avoided this going wrong" then two things immediatly come to mind. going too fast too close and overtaking moving traffic
WTF. Yes, carefully.
An odd path they took (presumably turning into that drive?) and very odd that they don't hit the brake on impact.
is that someone filming a CCTV screening with their mobile? background noise and voices and handheld drift of the image
Anyone have a link to the law/code regarding filtering/passing (on the right?)
I've 100% seen the Police respond on fb comments stating cyclist are fully entitled to filter, and it's not breaking the law.
Also, this article discusses motobikes, but cyclists are afforded full use of the road too, so same applies.
https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/filtering-motorbike-whats-law/
Text here..
In 2006, a judge ruled in the case of Davis vs Shrogin that, “a filtering motorcyclist passing stationary or very slow-moving traffic could not be to blame if a collision occurred if the rider had no chance to take avoiding action.”
Checking the Highway Code, under Rules for Motorcyclists, Rule 88 states, ‘Manoeuvering. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before maneuvering. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low.’
Then in Rule 160, where the advice is aimed more at other vehicle drivers, it clarifies this with, ‘Once moving, you should be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable…’
So, it’s clear that the Highway Code has specific provisions that cover filtering.
It means, the next time a car or van driver gets a little antsy on the subject, you can respectfully shove their, “Shouldn’t even have been riding there, mate!” back down their throats with a “Highway Code, Rules 88 and 160. Mate.”
You are allowed to filter, and other road users (including yourself, remember) should be aware of motorcycles filtering.
I tend to get on the right if possible and often in my commute I'm on the wrong side of the road as traffics all one way.
Feels far safer than being squeezed into parked cars....
Bez if you where stood n a mirror hit you you'd be apoplectic with anger.
my experience is it saves a great deal of time. thats all
Yeah, but we’re saying the same thing.
What I said is that I do it in certain conditions. Leaving work we used to regularly have a mile of queuing cars. Clearly it would be daft to spend 30 minutes in that instead of riding past it, so that’s what I did.
And like I said, busy city centres throw up those sorts of scenarios more often. I just happen not to encounter it much these days because I don’t ride through a city at rush hour.
Thanks scotroutes. I’ve bolded where I foresee the ‘differences’ in interpretation and choices between cyclists and other vehicles. Where does ‘overtaking’ become ‘filtering’ or is it the same thing?
167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For exampleapproaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
Bez if you where stood n a mirror hit you you’d be apoplectic with anger.
Probably, yeah. What’s that got to do with this thread?
Aren’t you basically saying you get out of bed too late and as a result you’re in such a rush that you crash into things?
Nope, cos I know how long it takes to get to work. If I wanted to sit behind traffic I'd take the car. (sorry, can't see if your emoji is winking, or what (shite forum innit))
It didn't even hurt, so hardly a "crash" 😛
Not a driver I assume? It’s always the manoeuvrers responsibility to check before carry out the manoeuver
Of course i am. But we don't see many aspects of it... Like for example what's down the road where the cycle comes from. If that's a bend, then as the drive first looked the cyclist wouldn't have been there, the cyclist then checks forward and makes the manouver, in the time it's taken to first look, to make the move may be 3-4s as they were checking the front, then the cyclist comes down the road and makes us the distance the car driver couldn't see as they were round a curve...
It's why we call them accidents, they're not deliberate. In hindisght i'm sure the car driver wishes they'd looked a 2nd time.... (or indeed a first) but we can't change that.
IMO it's a fairly easy mistake and with blind spots etc you can see how it happened.
two things immediatly come to mind. going too fast too close and overtaking moving traffic
3 - ignoring the indicator of a car you're overtaking. That's the crucial one for me. It's rare that the ****ers indicate, so when they do, take notice!!
I filter but expect the worst and ride accordingly. On the trike filtering is much harder due to width. I’m always careful to be on my side if the road if there is ever oncoming traffic.
That manoeuvre looked grim. But I’m always watching the car wheels for any deviation. When you are at their level the impact will be much more fun. First impact is with a chainring, and they do penetrate a door, apparently.
Looks deliberate to me. Appears as if he/she floors it to hit the cyclist, and then to not notice a person fly across your entire windscreen, drive over them, and then continue to drag them along under the car?
It’s why we call them accidents, they’re not deliberate.
That's exactly why police etc. don't call them accidents any more.
They're not random events, they are things that happen because of people's behaviour. The driver might not have set out to run someone over but his failure to look and then not stopping and actually running over the cyclist made it happen.
but his failure to look
Failure to see and failure to look are 2 different things.
Where does ‘overtaking’ become ‘filtering’ or is it the same thing?
In my head, overtaking is what you do down the outside, filtering is on the inside or between rows.
I also do. And rule 211 advises drivers turning right across slow-moving or stationary traffic that cyclists or motorbikes may be on thr inside if the traffic they are crossing.
That's a horrible video though. Can't see that the cyclist did anything wrong, but ompossible to tell if the driver hadn't checked blind spot at all.
Can’t see that the cyclist did anything wrong
IMO the cyclist was going too quickly for the conditions/traffic.
Where does ‘overtaking’ become ‘filtering’ or is it the same thing?
Filtering is simply, AIUI, when you're in the same lane as the vehicle you're overtaking.
The driver might not have set out to run someone over but his failure to look and then not stopping and actually running over the cyclist made it happen.
When my son's been waving a wooden sword about and hit his sister, he'll claim "I didn't try to hurt her!" as if that exonerates him. My stock response is, "that's not the point; the point is you didn't try not to hurt her". The same applies on the road 99% of the time: barely anyone's out to actively hurt anyone, but that doesn't mean they're not guilty of disregarding a (legal or moral) duty of care of others.
That's up the road from my work and the standard of driving in the area is absolutely horrendous. Nothing suprises me any more around bham where driving is concerned
In my head, overtaking is what you do down the outside, filtering is on the inside or between rows.
Me too. But I was thinking more for the purpose of legal definitions/ highway code?
The Highway Code does not recognise filtering (as cyclists appear to use the word) at all. You are either in a lane of traffic, overtaking on the right (OK if you follow the Code) or overtaking on the left (only allowed in specific circumstances eg when traffic is "moving slowly in lanes").
That's hideous, how do you not notice hitting someone. They've maybe just carried on in utter panic - like their brain switched off and they just completed the move automatically.
Its not often I ride on the road these days, but if i do filter its down the middle, but slowly and only when the traffic is stationary. I only filter on the left if I'm turning left at traffic lights and there is a long queue
The Highway Code does not recognise filtering (as cyclists appear to use the word) at all.
Rule 211 mentions "filtering through traffic" in the context of both motorcycling and cycling.
If cars are moving I filter down the outside.
Maybe the answer is its fine and legal but watch out for the idiots out to kill you, be careful and learn from mistakes.
Reflective practice - It really helps. Anytime I get into a "near miss" I try to analyse it and incorporate the lessons into future riding. Road position, speed, time, weather, traffic, road surface, was I concentrating, drunk 😉 , tired ? I apply it to mountainbike crashes as well.
Safe riding is something learned.
I filter but expect the worst and ride accordingly.
^^ this +100.
I filter but I assume that I have to look after myself as it's unlikely anyone else will. To be honest that's how I drive too. Of the thankfully few incidents I've had in my driving career since 1981, only one was truly unforeseeable.
scary stuff - does anyone know if the chap is ok?
I would not be overtaking at that speed in those conditions, in fact I would have probably popped onto the pavement if there was no one on it. These days its so dodgy I mostly sit and wait my turn with the cars, doing so seems to have reduced my close passes I used to receive. My logic is as I waited the car driver behind is less likely to be annoyed that I overtook and then held them up. Seems to be some truth in it.
I'd rather be late than dead.
in fact I would have probably popped onto the pavement ..
This cyclist had help with that move
Anytime I get into a “near miss” I try to analyse it and incorporate the lessons into future riding
@tjagain yep, I do this too. You get those REALLY close misses, and you thank your lucky stars! And certainly make a mental note of where not to be in the road/position/where to watch etc.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/cyclist-hospital-serious-injuries-after-16941084
Rule 211 mentions “filtering through traffic” in the context of both motorcycling and cycling.
But not in the context of "it is OK to do it when...." There is nothing in the rules that indicates whether it is OK or not, other than the fact that if you are filtering you are overtaking, and there are rules about that.
There are other rules which acknowledge that it may happen, eg Rules 72 and 73, but again they do not say anything about when, or if, it is OK to filter.
Bit tricky that one. Although overtaking on the RHS its effectively a one way street so you're undertaking. From that camera angle you can't see if the driver is indicating.
I will overtake in slow moving traffic. Generally don't undertake if there's a junction or turning where someone could left hook me. Similarly if cars are parked a the side of the road I won't undertake. In fact I tend take the whole of the lane as I've had loads of people open car doors whilst cycling past.
Prefer to overtake but again if there's a turning on the RHS will take it easy as lots of people think indicators are optional.
That was hard to watch. Although in fairness the car driver maybe wasn't expecting the bike to be there, should have stopped earlier though
I cycle from north London to central London, if I didn't filter I wouldn't make much progress
its effectively a one way street so you’re undertaking
Really? That's not clear from the video. That does make me want to excuse the cyclist from any blame at all then. What is the next junction like and how far away is it?
So if a right turning vehicle and a overtaking vehicle collide, who is at fault, according to the Highway code?
Was the intention was a panic emergency stop, but they have hit the gas rather than the brake? It happens a lot.
So if a right turning vehicle and a overtaking vehicle collide, who is at fault, according to the Highway code?
Almost certainly one of them, quite possibly both. The HC is not about fault, it is a set of rules for how to behave. If you ride or drive in a way that is not compliant with the rules then you are driving badly and may thereby be guilty of a criminal offence. If your bad driving is a significant part of the cause of a collision, then it might be "your fault" and this may give rise to further criminal liabilty and civil liability.
But, notwithstanding that you were riding like an idiot, it might not be your fault if, even if you had been riding carefully, the collision would still have occurred, for example elephant falling from top floor window etc. The further criminal offences and civil liability depend on causation, your bad driving must be the cause of the collision.
+1 about the Highway Code. What people arguing on the internet often seem to fail to realize is that it is there to prevent accidents. Some of the things in it refer to a legal obligation, but some of it is just about how to behave safely on the road. As an instance: It effectively tells pedestrians to 'obey the Green Cross Code'. It also warns car drivers about people stepping into the road without looking and the fact that you should give way to a pedestrian in the road. However this is now taken to mean by some that it is the fault of the pedestrain for paying no attention to their own safety or alternatively that you are absolved from looking before crossing because the driver is responsible for avoiding you. That is missing the point. If you both obey the Highway Code then nobody gets hurt. Unfortunately some of it appeals to common sense and these days that isn't ever going to work.
I used to filter all of the time on every road. Funnily enough, since going clipless I don’t filter half as much as I used to. Am just not confident enough in tight spaces when I’m attached to the bike. If there’s a good amount of space, or a dedicated lane I will.
Very rarely filter past busses/vans/trucks on the left if there’s a turn off to the left, for reasons shown in that video. Most busses here have big signs on the back telling cyclists not to do that. Unless there’s a cycle lane and there’s no bus stop/left turn, I’ll always overtake on the right if able. Have read too many stories of cyclists getting left hooked. On some roads and at some roundabouts there are some cycle lanes that I won’t even go in. Through experience I’ve learnt which roads to take a strong primary in rather than use the dedicated lane.
When my son’s been waving a wooden sword about and hit his sister, he’ll claim “I didn’t try to hurt her!” as if that exonerates him. My stock response is, “that’s not the point; the point is you didn’t try not to hurt her”. The same applies on the road 99% of the time: barely anyone’s out to actively hurt anyone, but that doesn’t mean they’re not guilty of disregarding a (legal or moral) duty of care of others.
I'll try to remember that one, when 'discussing' things with people of questionable awareness, in future - ta.
The HC is not about fault, it is a set of rules for how to behave. I
True. I was trying to be brief but poorly chosen words
Who is following the rules less, in that situation?
If you both obey the Highway Code then nobody gets hurt.
What is the highway code on the subject of turning and passing, in that type of situation?
I thought the police laid charges based on violations of the highway code?
scary stuff – does anyone know if the chap is ok?
Very rarely filter past busses/vans/trucks on the left if there’s a turn off to the left, for reasons shown in that video
What, a car turning right? If the cyclist had been on the left he wouldn't have got hit!
I do what the lad in the video does . However , I have a sneaky feeling he was wearing headphones . To be that close to a car and not hear the revs pick up fast as the driver accelerates into'I am guessing' his driveway means eitheer deaf or hearing impared
I think its safer to overtake on the R H S . Better sight lines , more chance of being spotted in the drivers side mirror , and you can see what the drivers hands are doing.
This also allows you to see who is texting away whilst crawling along.
If the traffic speed increases I will just filter across to nearside again. It also has the advantage that the cars have to know there is a bike up ahead , as you have just overtaken them.
I thought the police laid charges based on violations of the highway code?
No, they charge people based on the law, which the Highway Code isn’t.