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This refers to a modern trunk road with a metre of tarmac between th drum lesson strip and the gravel soak away.
The weather was a awful to compound the issue of massive closing speeds. On this kind of road (if I absolutely had to
)I would cycle outside of the rumble strip off the main carriageway giving me a safe zone from inattentive motorists. This rider was the standard one meter in, on the carriageway side of the rumble strip which I think in this instance increases the risk he is exposing himself to.
How do you ride on this kind of road?
I wouldn't.
I see the odd guy cycling on the DC on the way to work, its utter lunacy, there's a multitude of other routes nearby, including a NCN route.
You mean the meter of tarmaC that's not part of the caridge way ( its outside the solid white line)...... Full of debris and often drain gratings parallel to the road.
Be safe be seen - if I had to .
But what nobeer said. Alternative routes ftw.
Yes - the bit where the cars don’t drive.
Not riding there would be my very preferred option.
Edit - the issue was that he/ she couldn’t be seen until the last minute in the rain, dark, ‘vision smearing’ modern LED rear lights with most driving to fast for conditions.
The bit that's not actually the road.
I don’t.
And always shudder when a loon occasionally rides on the A1 towards Borehamwood at 0515.
Unfortunately, given the standard of driving and prevalent attitudes, I'd be off the road too.
But as cyclists we have the RIGHT to be there - drivers are there only by licence.
I'd avoid at all costs particularly if it involves crossing junctions / slip roads because joining traffic isn't looking out for relatively slow moving bikes - it's bad enough when driving these days that people just barrel down the slip road expecting a gap to magically appear. I once witnessed a guy riding up the A3 where the M25 exit slip joins - there was a fatality there a few years ago.
How do you ride on this kind of road?
Depends. I do use the hard shoulders on some, because I can use them to get home very quickly or there's no alternative. Some shoulders are huge, some are not. I wouldn't ride on the main carriageway on a full speed DC. I do on the A48 around Newport though because it's a suburban 50mph one and not busy.
@cynic-al - as per you other thread.
..as cyclists we have the RIGHT to be there...
My thoughts exactly as that discovery sport cut in on me!
I wouldn't ride on it. If I really had to my positioning would depend on the usual various factors but probably about 2 feet onto the carriageway but moving off it as cars come past
@tj - on Friday that would have dictated you would be permanently off the carriageway. It was very busy, both lanes full.
So how do you propose to cross slip roads when your not on the road?
Your either part of traffic or your not. Dipping in and out is one of the most dangerous wayd to ride.
Aye, you've no idea how long a slip road exit/entry actually is til you try to cycle it!
Never again.
And Teej, that is one of your worst ever ideas! 😂
If I had to ride on this type of road:
On non slip junctions it won’t matter, lots of these still on the A30.
Up the slip road around the roundabout and down the other side, if busy. If not join the carriageway and ride across the slip road then back to the left of the rumble strip ASAP.
My thought was on the carriageway to be seen ( in the line of sight of the car driver) and off it to increase passing distance as the cars pass.. But its basically something I would not do ( ride on DCs)
I think it is normal to expect conflict and a fight if cycling on a duel carriageway 🙂
It's not a terrible idea.
It Still dipping in and out of traffic
And round here youd find out as you got to the round about that often there was no way to actually rejoin in the same direction.
When I come to sliproads on DCs I ride up to the triangle where the sliproad joins the lane and then I cross over to the left hand side of the sliproad. Sometimes I have to wait for a clear gap to do this - it has to be VERY clear as cars can be gunning it. Some DCs are actually marked up like this for cyclists.
There's no way I'd do it - at least not on proper NSL dual carriageway. Speaking as a driver, the 50-60mph closing speeds means visibility of cyclists is far worse than on in-town roads, and stopping distances aren't enough. Drivers are definitely not expecting cyclists. The whole idea really freaks me out.
That said, I daily ride on the 40mph limit inner ring road here and I don't find it too bad - mainly because I'm faster than rush-hour traffic.
Depends on the DC, Im confident riding the ones in and out of Reading (A33, A4) as they're mostly just DC to get more traffic in and out, and speeds are mostly 40-50mph and for the most part the only difference to the other roads is you get a lane to yourself with cars overtaking.
The out of town DCs on the other hand. Theres a roll of the dice between being dead right and just being dead.
And round here youd find out as you got to the round about that often there was no way to actually rejoin in the same direction.
Even on trunk roads?
Edit: if I came across that, I think I would cross the slip road at right angles ASAP then continue off the carriageway
On the A9 I came quite close to wiping out a group of cyclists on the dual bit! I was not expecting them on it being an NSL and there being a good cycleway. I am doing 70 in the inside lane, stream of cars in the outside coming past me, round a bend to see a group of cyclists going very slowly uphill. full on emergency stop to avoid them
I'm amazed they run (or used to anyway) time trials on the A1 and A14 even early on an sunday morning the traffic is busy and crazy fast!
I am doing 70 in the inside lane, stream of cars in the outside coming past me, round a bend to see a group of cyclists going very slowly uphill. full on emergency stop to avoid them
This is why I would cycle off the carriageway.
they were side by side! about ten of them.
That could work on the hard shoulder of a motorway😄
they were side by side! about ten of them.
I rode from Liverpool to Manchester a year or so ago (not my route or choice of roads) and a lot of what we used was "urban DC" - the sort of thing that usually has a 40 or 50 limit. On my own I'd have found an alternative route but actually this was with the club. A group of them had met us at the ferry (about 4 of us had come off the catamaran from IoM where we'd done a ride) so they met us in Liverpool and accompanied us back into Manc.
Being in a neat 2-up group on those roads was actually far and away the safest way to ride it. Cars could just move into the outside lane to overtake, we were nice and visible and thankfully we had a tailwind so it was a relatively easy ride. Not "nice" or particularly scenic but it got the job done.
Locally to me there's a stretch of DC bypass (70 limit) and I see a guy riding on that reaosnably regularly which is utterly insane given the speeds and the fact that there are about 4 other very good cycling options to get between the end points of the DC. There's no way I'd ride it.
crazy legs - I agree in general about the 2 wide thing.
link to a google map?
A82 Dumbarton to Balloch often has roadies on it. As a local I expect them and give plenty space, but since it's a major tourist route with multiple wrong way drivers killing or getting killed, and the normal idiot locals not giving a shit, no way! Alternatives exist.
Member
I’m amazed they run (or used to anyway) time trials on the A1 and A14 even early on an sunday morning the traffic is busy and crazy fast!
Yes I used to regularly time trial on those roads . Some pretty quick courses as the A14 had just opened and had a good surface . The Brampton Hut roundabout was pretty hairy to navigate and people used to take big risks to get round without losing any time.
A82 Dumbarton to Balloch often has roadies on it. As a local I expect them and give plenty space, but since it’s a major tourist route with multiple wrong way drivers killing or getting killed, and the normal idiot locals not giving a shit, no way! Alternatives exist.
Was just here to see if the A82 gets a mention. Considering a safer route runs parallel it’s bonkers that anyone would chose to ride it
A50 between M1 and M6. Seen races happen that use that dual carriageway as a route on more than one weekend.
I think they're ****ing psychotic. - Who cares if you've a right to be there - you're mad to be there.
Like my mate says: There's a lot of dead correct people.
The only time I've touched the Millbrook dual carriageway from the cty centre to Totton in recent years is before 0800 on a Sunday morning, the double lane 30mph road (A3024) between the city and Bitterne is damnright hostile most of the time and is only just tolerable these days when I head to work at 0630... So many more cars around at this unearthly time than ten years ago.
A guy has recently taken to commuting along the A27 between Shoreham and Brighton on a BSO with a very dim rear light and construction hi-viz. First time I saw him I thought " he won't do that again! Wrong....
You just can't mitigate for shit, distracted drivers as the closing speed is so much higher. I did several miles of backtracking to avoid an unexpected one mile on the A19 this summer. But then, I will go extra miles to avoid certain single carriageway roads around here - A65/A59 etc.
Used to do it but today **** that for a game of soldiers
From my small town there is loads of great offroad riding and road rides all over the moors. However, the only feasible way of riding to the main town for work etc is via a 3 miles section of dual carriageway. It's not that busy a section of road, but it is a bit windy. No slip roads which is a plus.
There are a few hardy souls that do it daily but I just can't, I find it terrifying. There is a small strip to the left of the solid white line but IME no one rides there because it's manky and gravel strewen. It also encoruages drivers to zip by at 70mph with 1m to spare.
The near misses I've seen on this section are where you get drivers tailgaiting the car in front. The car in front reacts quite late to go round the cylist and the car behind has a split second to react, resulting in a much braking and swerving.
In 2017 I was witness to a horrible cyclist KSI on a section of a another busy section of dual carriage on my way to work. It's where the A19 exit slip merged in (so busy junction). A cyclist was on the dual carriage and a car "merged" straight through him at >70mph. The roof of the VW Golf was completely squashed, manshed up windscreen etc. Car came to rest about 100m from where the cyclist was hit. How the guy survivded I don't know. I would never, ever ride a dual carriage way that has fast slip roads merging on. Not a chance.
**** that for a game of soldiers
Quite.
That could work on the hard shoulder of a motorway
Ironically a safer place to cycle than what you get given on roads you're allowed to cycle on.
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/how-to-design-a-death/
The same expediency which makes cycle provision on dual carriageways so lacking and dangerous is now being felt by smart motorway drivers. No separation between vulnerable users, in this case broken down drivers, and massive closing speeds. Sticking a red cross on a gantry doesn't really cut it, just like painting a tiny strip on the inside lane for us.
Yes – the bit where the cars don’t drive.
there's a stretch of dual carriageway on my commute and that's what I do. Unless in a group when I just make sure I'm not at the back. Unless it's the chain gang in which case hanging on at the back drop me if you can is absolutely the way to go for a free ride, and lorry strike would be quite a welcome release.
I used to be really into my time trialling. I used to be on the A35 dual carriageway very often.
This is the popular local course https://www.strava.com/segments/6913378 It’s a downhill run, into a roundabout, and then across a dodgy slip on/off. It’s popular as it’s blumin quick!
It’s utter lunacy, in pursuit of a PB.
I came to my senses, I no longer TT or ride DCs.
I have ridden a TT on a DC however it was not that busy etc. and didn't feel awfully dangerous. I rode in the inside lane. Not busy, plenty of other competitors so cars going round quite nicely.
Other than that I've avoided NSL duals nearly everywhere due to the lack of care from other road users. If I was to accidentally end up on a busy one I would play it by ear. The last thing I'd want to be doing is what TJ suggests, I'd stick to wherever I'd chosen.
I've ended up on busy DC's by accident once or twice (or through totally overgrown cycle paths), and despite my general tolerance of riding and trust for drivers in even fast traffic, bugger that.
This morning a guy was pupming his mtb, riding up a steepish section on the A448, the camber here is slightly adverse - in certain vehicles it can pull to the nearside - the car in front of me stayed in lane and must have missed the guy by cms as he drifted left. I don't think it was deleiberate but my heart was in my mouth. There would have been a metre at least to spare had the cyclist been the other side of the rumble strip. If I ever have to cycle on this type of road I know where I will be positioned.
This is a organised 10 mile time trial near me, it seems madness.
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/documents/download/4903
Aye doing it on a road where those coming up behind have good sight lines and a lane with zero on coming traffic to over take seems mad.
Much better to do it on country roads with no sightlines and oncoming traffic where people get anxious about being held up for a few seconds.
Arguably having ridden in England a few times I could understand why you wouldn't want to ride on dual carriageways down there. Heck id actively avoid riding on the majority of roads down there. There's alot of rushing and anger on all the roads it seems
Aye doing it on a road where those coming up behind have good sight lines and a lane with zero on coming traffic to over take seems mad.
I often see people cycling on this road because the alternative is a B road with as you say zero sight lines with narrowing sections where the high hedge blends in to the tarmac, deep sunken drain covers which pepole swerve to avoid, and large wide cars with drivers driving 'off side' on the white line because they have no clue where the near side of there car is. I would choose the duel carriage way over this road to cycle, but I would be left of the rumble strip
I used to regularly cycle along the whole length of the A449 as a teenager, incl the DC sections, but not any more. Whether or not this is my increasing wisdom or decreasing confidence (now 52) is a matter of debate. As objective an opinion as I can muster says ‘both’. Worcs/Herefordshire like many counties in the UK are woeful in provision. In fact the Worcs-Hereford route (NCN/Sustrans 46) is yet to emerge. I’ve lived in the area for 15 years and still yet to cycle between these two cities owing to the headache.
I understand those who prefer to avoid narrow minor roads especially in rush hour, but there’s often little space on the DC. Last time I tried it, after the first 20 or so close 60+ mph close-passes (mostly vans and the usual suspects) I became dry-mouthed and clenched ready for something all-too inevitable. Best of luck, anyone.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sanders/ @52.2666827,-2.2260461,3a,75y,24.62h,86.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKpcQY0LosUK3vOTRTGAyLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x4870f3cf0d955769:0x511f99f1a3c469d9!8m2!3d52.2597952!4d-2.2271588
I’ve lived in the area for 15 years and still yet to cycle between these two cities owing to the headache.
I'm not suprised, riding the A4103 - most direct route - in my experience would be a matter of when not if you got hit. SHould be 50 limit, but regulary get over taken by several cars on the starights when I have not been hanging around on the corners.