[Closed] Cycle Computers and Navigation

I use a Garmin 510 for rides where I know where I'm going, so basically local rides. I've a Garmin Oregon 600 (there's a 700 series now) which has a decent sized screen and mapping for those rides where I'm somewhere new or if I have to follow a specific path such as in an ITT.

The Oregon is very much a generic device, there's marine functionality on it, rather than a bike specific device.

I know that there are devices like the Wahoo but I've not used those so can't comment on how they compare.

They are all pretty expensive, except the one I have (Edge Touring) which is cheap but has its issues.  But they'll all do data gathering so you'd be making your Edge redundant I fear.

Bike ones aren't great for walking because the form factor is completely different.  Walking ones can be used on bikes but they are huge and unwieldy.

For many years I used a combination of breadcrumbs and a phone if I had to modify the route.

Oregon is the best starting point. You can install a number of mapsets, so Ordnance Survey if you prefer, an Opensource set where that might provide more.

Though not without its foibles the Oregon also seems to have a lot fewer bugs than the Edge series.

Oregon here, old one - 550t. Used on the MTB and on my motorbike mainly. Also on foot too, taking it with me for a trip to the Cairngorms

But they’ll all do data gathering so you’d be making your Edge redundant I fear.

Not too worried about that, as I will simply mount the Garmin on the other bikes, as it primarily on my road bike that I would use it - especially in Belgium.

The reason it comes up as a concern at all, is that I got completely lost in the dark the other night, and only just made it home as my front light died. My phone wouldn't work because it was too cold and just shut itself off, and I was left wondering if I should just curl up and give in to hypothermia.

In any case, are there any thoughts on the Mio 505 UK GPS? It comes bundled with all UK maps, but will I be able to load Continental maps as well?

As above, the cycling ones are all poor for walking navigation.

The best I've used for road navigation is the full size wahoo, but I prefer to use OS maps on my phone for everything else.

as it primarily on my road bike that I would use it – especially in Belgium

Ah yes.  When you aren't familiar with your location a mapping GPS is brilliant.  That's why I got mine.  I don't think there's anything to beat it at the price (it also has all of Europe on it)

Surprised your phone stopped working in the cold though.  That's never happened to me.

EDIT that Mio for £199 on Merlin sounds like a good deal though...

What about the Garmin eTrex 30x? Anyone have any experience?

That [I]looks[/I] like the type of thing that would suit my needs well, but I don't want to invest in something that doesn't actually do what it claims...

Quite a few use the eTrex series, main difference apart from screen size is that it doesn't have a touch screen.

Etrex is similar to Oregon but smaller. I find the slightly larger screen a real benefit.

Oregon also runs off AAs - handy for longer, multi-day trips.

I use my 800 for recording, navigation (walking and riding).

It works fine. You might find a second hand 810 but I've no idea about the 820. I bodged a strap in a simialr fassion to this to attach it to a pocket on my shoulder strap. Don't see why a 1000 wouldn't work either.

I use the OS maps with a route line over the top. Half following the line, half using the map to navigate old school. Been ok for all sorts of conditions. We have a Dakota as well as it takes AA batteries. Not much difference walking wise. I prefer the 800 as I'm more familiar.

Does the eTrex let you plan routes on the fly?

That's a useful capability for me on the Edge Touring.  I can bail out of a planned route if it's taking too long and plan another one from the device.

I cannot comment on how they behave off-road, but on road, the Lezyne Super GPS is a bargain for £104 before Top cashback at PBK. Link it to a suitable mobile that runs the Ally V2 app and it will re-route on the fly, plus give a link for free live tracking on where you and hopefully your Lezyne is.

The Oregon does. I imagine the Etrex does too. In common with all  GPS devices it's as much dependent on the mapping as the hardware/software .

What's the routing like?

@molgrips - as Scotroutes says, it depends on the mapping. With OSM I've found bridleways with breaks in them so that you get routed back on yourself and round by the nearest road to get to a point about 20 metres away. Not a fault of the device. Obviously a bit of common sense needs to be applied at times.

Depends on the mapping 😉

Using Openfietsmap it seems to work pretty well. I just wish they'd cut a UK map with more regularity as I've added stuff to the OSM database that's not been reflected yet.

The Oregon has a few "profiles" which include road riding, MTB and Recreation (walking). You can modify these with routing and avoidance options, even create your own custom routing profiles.

Mine is bloody well OBSESSED with cyclepaths.  Sometimes it routes me weirdly through a town to pick a particular street only to find it's just a normal street that happens to be an NCN.  Then it'll send me down some dodgy closed park in the middle of the night just because it's marked as a cyclepath.  Now I think the cyclepath label is in the map, but the weighting for each type of route is in the device rather than on the map.. is that the case?  On the device you can choose between 'cycling', 'touring' and 'mountain biking' but it doesn't say what any of these actually mean.

This is not usually a problem of course since I normally plan on the computer beforehand.

I feel your pain bro. One of the anomalies I've come across is that planning a route on one mapping system then importing it to the GPS will often result in some unintended and unwanted rerouting.  This can even happen with different (newer/older) versions of the same mapping. To me, that makes full control of mapping installed n the device amongst the most important functions in device section  and why I will often labour the multi-map benefit in these threads.

At the moment I simply accept that a "curated" route choice a la Garmin Touring does not provide the flexibility I desire

One of the tags you can attach to any public route in OSM is designated, i.e. it's the preferred way for a particular class of user whether that's pedestrian, cyclist, horse rider, etc. So if the cycle path has been marked up in that way and you tell the device that you are on a bike then by preference it will take you along it even though it's not really what you want. More info here  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Ddesignated   so a UK bridleway should be designated for horses but not for bikes whereas a cycleway should be designated for bikes. Thus if you've a cycleway and a bridleway close together and your device is set up for a bike then you'll be directed on the cycleway even if you want the bridleway!

Before you go splashing out on a new Garmin though make sure the area you want to use is well covered by Openstreetmap.  Even the free Garmin maps use that data.  When I've looked at some stuff in the south of Belgium (I can't remember exactly where you are) I've found some of the data a bit thin.  Compare it with tracks that you know of or overlay the satellite map and take a look

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/49.9519/5.2364

If you end up using the Openmtbmap.org or openvelomap.org maps then it it is well worth reading the instructions as they are compiled in a way to fool the Garmin into preferring certain sorts of routes and you have to set your garmin up accordingly.  If  you do it can work well but otherwise it can be a pain

https://openmtbmap.org/about-2/autorouting/

And finally, not all of the paths are joined properly in the OSM dataset and the routing can take you a slightly longer way round that you want so it is worth staying a bit more zoomed out and using common sense rather than always believing the route it gives.  On roads it is much better though

(ps. I paid for the official Garmin Belgium maps before and they are not much better 🙁 )

I can put up with the dodgy routing though - if following the device's navigation I put on automatic re-routing.  So generally I can just go 'nope' if I see something I don't fancy and go somewhere else, and it'll re-route.

The only really annoying bug it has is occasionally it'll get confused and insert a turn-by-turn navigation point 6,000km away.  The route still looks ok, but it won't alert you to your actual turning becase it's still waiting for you to reach the one on the other side of the world. Not found a way around that yet, but I'm still trying.  It doesn't happen all the time though so it's hard to experiment.  It happened much more with Veloviewer maps.

Actually, come to think of it - it happened a lot more when I was using Tracklogs to click my own routes. Now though I mostly use bikehike which does its own auto routing.  So chances are it's something to do with waypoint inaccuracy.

generally I can just go ‘nope’ if I see something I don’t fancy and go somewhere else, and it’ll re-route.

Much the same as when.a couple of sections in OSM don't have the correct junction/join type. Ride through the affected section and the route will pick up.

And in an amazing display of synchronicity, I've just found that the OFM UK region was updated two days ago  🙂

http://www.openfietsmap.nl/downloads/europe

Ride through the affected section and the route will pick up.

And if you are feeling very generous, and remember, then go online and fix it after.  Even the Garmin maps seem to update a couple of times a year and thing like openfietsmap a lot more often.  You can even roll your own if you need it now

Only very loosely related to the thread - I just found Garmin Discoverer GB OS maps being sold off on ebay - £30 for the whole UK 1:50k.  Thought it was a knock-off but it might not be - looks like a dealer selling off 'ex demo' stuff. Some older versions for less.  Not sure if it'll work but worth a punt.

UPDATE

SD card arrived, popped it into the Edge Touring and hey presto, I can see OS 1:50k maps!

I missed this the first time around, but I've been thinking about a similar thing and I'm going to give this a go.

I have an old sony phone and an OS maps subscription. I should be able to buy or make a case for it that will get it cinched on the bars somewhere. It's waterproof, so fine there and I should be able to add a booster battery if needed. I just need to figure out a convenient way to have the screen come on easily. I'll likely still use a breadcrumb on my garmin to follow, this is extra in difficult areas.

I've used this touring in France the last few times I've been, just with my phone in a top tube bag. If I can get the setup mounted neatly I have something that isn't too tied to a particular device if it dies, lets me use other maps (French national mapping for example) and shouldn't have cost me all that much.

I have an old Android phone that I use for navigation, currently ziptied to the stem but thinking of gluing a Garmin mount to the case and getting a proper mount for it.

It eats battery like mad, presumably because the screen is always on, not sure there is a way for it to come on at every turn or something.

You'd need a navigation app that has that feature. There are thousands, so you might be lucky 🙂