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Hi, I'm looking to build a couple of pairs of wheels for my CX / gravel / etc bike so I can have some road wheels and some off-road wheels. I'm not going to be racing CX for the forseeable future, but rides that are mostly road with the odd bridleway / towpath are most of my riding at the moment.
I've a couple of pairs of XT hubs spare at the moment and I've settled on DT R460s for the road wheels, and I was intending to go with the similar but slightly wider R470s for the off-road pair, however I've seen several references to Stans being "better" for tubeless setups, however they're noticeably more money, with little on paper to show for it.
So the big question: is the Stans Grail worth an extra £60 for a pair of rims over the DT?
DT claim you can ran tubeless tyres greater than 32mm at pressures greater than 45PSI - Stan's don't and based on my experience won't.
DT is 10g lighter.
DT is £30 cheaper.
DT is effectively the same inner width.
Grails are a PITA to get tyres on and off, dunno about DT.
In what way are Stan's better?
I thought the 45psi maximum pressure was only applicible to the Iron Cross, which is why I had dismissed them...
I'm unsure exactly why the Stans are seen as better / best, but having seen it stated in a few Internet discussions, I've little idea if it's just Internet arguing, or there was something concrete better about them that someone with direct experience could confirm.
In what way are Stan’s better?
They have Stans on them, which means everyone knows you spend £60 more. It's like a marginal gains version of buying £3k watch Vs casio F91-W that does the same job but doesn't shout "I bought a £3k watch".
I thought the 45psi maximum pressure was only applicible to the Iron Cross, which is why I had dismissed them…
I’m unsure exactly why the Stans are seen as better / best, but having seen it stated in a few Internet discussions, I’ve little idea if it’s just Internet arguing, or there was something concrete better about them that someone with direct experience could confirm.
It is 45 recommended limit for a 32 tyre, but the grail is fine going to 80psi on a 28 tyre - I've used them road tubeless this year. Not sure the iron cross was happy with higher pressures full stop. Grail doesn't seem suited to a 32 tubeless for general riding around at 50-60 psi as said.
Stans are just proven wheels at a good quality / performance / cost balance - you know what you're getting. Don't know how the DT stacks up, there's prob not a lot in it. Would say, though, that my experience of mounting tyres on the grails has been effortless, they go on really easy. Too easy in the case of road tyres, as it makes them hard to seat.
I've used Grails with 40mm gravel tyres and now 30mm road tyres both set up tubeless. They've been faultless and tyres aren't difficult to mount (WTB Nano and Exposure).
Not used DT.
I've got a set of Stans and can fit Vittoria tubeless tyres without levers. They're good rims and are more than up to the job of gravel riding and cx racing.
I've also got a set of DT CR1600 wheels, they are very nice and equally as easy to fit and inflate tubeless tyres.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts! I think from what everyone has said, I'll stick to the original plan and go with the DTs and use the saving for a nice pair of tyres :).
Iron Cross was basically the old Olympic XC rim in a 700c size I think- just about stiff enough to make a 26" MTB wheel but not 29". I think it has the same very tight BSD as the other MTB rims e.g. crest, arch. The Grail I think is slightly looser to take tighter fitting road tyres, as well as reinforced for the higher pressues- happy to be corrected though.
I've used crests for CX and happily run some not-labelled-as-tubeless 'road' tyres tubeless up to 50psi <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">(Challenge Strada Bianca Race 33s)</span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">. WTB Nanos however wouldn't go on at all. I have an American Classic 101 which has the same BSD as a crest but also has a bead barb- I did managed to get a Nano on but the spoke tension went all funny and I thought I was going to have to cut it off.</span>
These days I'd choose a WTB KOM- usefully light, cheapish (and on sale often), seems sturdy enough, UST bead seat so fits most tyres (and if there's a bit of slack it's easy to build up with tape). If you want to use a really loose tyre like a surly knard they won't go though. Won't hold air and literally just fall off the wheel if you pick it up by the tyre.
I don't have any experience with the DTs, I admit.
Incidentally maxxis seem to fit any of the rims above fairly easily.