[Closed] Cwncarn new bits

I rode Twrch last week and had no idea they'd changed it, it was such a great surprise! Love the sections they've done up, they're really fun. It still feels like Twrch but wow it's swoopy and pumpy now.

I did Pwca on Tuesday and yeah, it's really fun too. Very very short, my watch said 14 minutes from the car park back to the car park. I love how flowy it is, although I can't jump and just felt a bit sad about that because there were so many awesome looking doubles and things. Definitely one to session and practice.

I rode it last week and agree these are decent changes. Yes it is smoother but it is still not easy and getting it right feels like it will take some doing; momentum is very important as if you are going well it gets very fast but mess something up and you lose a lot of speed.

I've ridden at Cwmcarn since it first opened and great to see a new trail go in. I enjoy both of the previous trails but think that the addition of a blue and the not that new pumptrack are important to give it broader appeal.

I've never really paid much attention to the section names but the altered section looks to be called Angel's posts. Not much has really changed on Dragon's teeth apart from felling. I enjoy trying to stay off the brakes for the duration of the Castle Valley section - very gratifying when you manage it.

Some of the felling has exposed what seem to be a number of off-piste sections including routes that join/leave the Dragon's tongue/teeth sections. Has anyone ridden these or if they achieve a link between sections?

I’ve never really paid much attention to the section names but the altered section looks to be called Angel’s posts

I wouldn't argue, I don't really know the names either, I thought it was called achy fingers.

Some of the felling has exposed what seem to be a number of off-piste sections including routes that join/leave the Dragon’s tongue/teeth sections. Has anyone ridden these or if they achieve a link between sections?

Google 'Risca Bike Park' it's fallen under than 'tollerated category' with NRW at the moment it seems, but well some people can't help themselves can they...

There's been off-piste for years of course, but this 'Bike Park' is massive and not very well hidden.

I've ridden a bit and there's no way much of it would pass any NRW style risk assessment, it's pretty shady. Up to fairly recently it didn't really impact the official trails much, but that's changing from groups of riders riding sections of Twrch backwards to link bits of it, to builders digging up small bits of Twrch to make access into their trails easier. Not to mention, none of it is signposted, up to now NRW have placed an extra sign or two to help keep people who want to ride Twrch on the right path, but it won't take long before unwitting Trail Centre wimps (I include myself in that) end up going the wrong way.

It'll probably end up the architect of it's own destruction, if they stopped at a couple of subtle runs it could live on for years, there's not a huge amount of off-piste at Cwmcarn, but the trails that are have been around forever, but it's growing at a staggering pace, lock down only seemed to accelerate that. I don't think it will be long before the NRW get the diggers out for the sake of liability.

Rode both loops last week & I thought the trail pixies had done a good job.

Angels Posts (?) is different for sure. Better? Smoother yes & definitely faster once you've got it dialled in. Prior to being worked on it was getting on the verge of being a bit of a rocky mess. Rideable & fun but I don't miss it that much. As you say OP, it'll wear down & become rougher over time & I'm sure then with a blend of old & new terrain it'll be riot!

Rode the Twrch and Cafall yesterday and the new bits did surprise me! I had the same thought as you over the new surfacing of Dragon's Tongue and Angel's Posts (the bits before you cross the fireroad into the final descent), easy for you to lose the rhythm and either fire off the trail or end up OTB after catching a whoop wrong. Also the chicane over the bridge now crossing the blue really upsets the flow of that final section. Didn't realise the blue was officially open so will try that next visit.

It's different and as I loved the old version I don't like it after one run but, as you say, it'll bed in and get rougher and back to what it was soon enough. I'll get used to it and it's not terrible by any means so will take a bit of getting used to, especially as I ride it so often I used to be able to ride it in my sleep and would spot if a rock was out of place!!

Also the chicane over the bridge now crossing the blue really upsets the flow of that final section.

I've ridden it 3 times now I think... first go it was a bit of a "didn't expect that" moment so I nearly stopped to check it out, 2nd time a bit less tentative and 3rd go last night there is a quicker line, it's still a bit loose and it's a 90 degree bend so you'll always need a bit brake, but the big steep berm after it mostly compensates. I think I did a :58 on that section last night at a decent cruise which is about my normal everyday pace for me.

Do the car parks have a closing time on these nice light summers evenings?

Ive not been to Cwncarn for many moons, probably around 12 years - has it chnaged that much, as i ever only went there for the DH and to make a pratt of of myself in front of Mr N Page on the first double up top.. Is this Cwncarn now worth a 2.5hr drive for a proper pedal around (im not really a full on DH type anymore, unless as part of a trail where red rag syndrom steps in..

ta

I'll reserve judgement until I've ridden it but I used to really enjoy the last bit of twrch trail and by the description it sounds more bike parky than it certainly used to be which is disappointing seeing as these types of trails are taking over the place. Similarly to the top section of cafell which was really awesome and tight and twisty and even mediocorly technial and is now open hillside bike park and dull as dish water. It won't put me off going again but I'll make the decision after that whether to now exclude it from a spot I enjoy visiting.

Twrch isn't the least bit 'bike parky'? They've just improved the trail so it's more interesting. It's nothing like BPW or Whistler if that's what you think.

Also I never rode Cafall before it was changed but it is super fun at the moment. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could think that descent is dull.

I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve ridden it but I used to really enjoy the last bit of twrch trail and by the description it sounds more bike parky

It's not the last bit as such, but the last but one bit that leads to the last bit, but that's not important.

Anyway, That's the thing, I think most people will arrive at it thinking, "oh, they've turned that rocky, tyre popping, oh-my-gawd-I-will-die-if-I-crash-at-this-speed, holy-shit-this-gets-narrow-MORE-****ING-ROCKS into another BPW flow trail".

That's exactly what it looks like, it all looks very smooth, no turn goes unbermed and it's all whooped up to make it fun, without letting you pile on too much speed. You think, this will be like Blue Scar down in Afan, you don't need to know it, the flow is obvious that you can just sort of follow your nose and instinctively ride it pretty well blind.

But once you start you realise it's NOTHING like that, yes, most of the rocks are, at the moment at least, buried. the ones that are left are very carefully placed to make little drops and booters, but it darts around up and down, left and right all over the place, the whoops aren't uniform at all, they have lips and drops that turn them into little step-ups and downs, if only you can read them fast enough, it wad getting on a bit last night, but even trying not to go too mad, it's pretty frantic stuff.

I've ridden Cwmcarn for years and years, Strava tells me I've got 99 attempts at it, and I was riding there a long time before I got that orange curse. I loved the old section, and I will miss it, but this new one is just as much of a challenge, my thighs and achilles were screaming after I rode it, just trying to match the terrain.

I love both runs and looking forward to seeing new bits.

Sorry to repeat myself but will my car get locked in late on a summers evening?

I'll have to give the new a bit a go on the hardtail tonight (assuming I get out) - I'd see them up there doing stuff, but didn't know they'd refresh another bit of it.

Agreed on the Risca side - was only ever going to be a temporary thing and the speed and sight lines where some of the stuff crosses the regular XC trail are an accident waiting to happen. Firing out conda in particular is a nasty spot as you've got so much momentum. It's a shame people keep building in the same bits which are highly visible rather than the acres of woodland on the site away from the main scenic drive, walkers and mtb trails, but oh well.

Can't help with car park sorry, it always used to shut at 9, but no clue whats happening there at the minute. they used to leave the car park cafe alone, which made it a safer bet for night riding, but again with all the work etc its a bit of a lottery.

Google ‘Risca Bike Park’ it’s fallen under than ‘tollerated category’ with NRW at the moment it seems, but well some people can’t help themselves can they…

There’s been off-piste for years of course, but this ‘Bike Park’ is massive and not very well hidden.

I’ve ridden a bit and there’s no way much of it would pass any NRW style risk assessment, it’s pretty shady. Up to fairly recently it didn’t really impact the official trails much, but that’s changing from groups of riders riding sections of Twrch backwards to link bits of it, to builders digging up small bits of Twrch to make access into their trails easier. Not to mention, none of it is signposted, up to now NRW have placed an extra sign or two to help keep people who want to ride Twrch on the right path, but it won’t take long before unwitting Trail Centre wimps (I include myself in that) end up going the wrong way.

It’ll probably end up the architect of it’s own destruction, if they stopped at a couple of subtle runs it could live on for years, there’s not a huge amount of off-piste at Cwmcarn, but the trails that are have been around forever, but it’s growing at a staggering pace, lock down only seemed to accelerate that. I don’t think it will be long before the NRW get the diggers out for the sake of liability.

+1.

If the off-piste diggers don’t chill a little NRW will most likely flatten all un-sanctioned trails & it’ll all be lost.

P-Jay yeah exactly my thinking so hopefully once ridden I'll agree.

tetrode as you say if you didn't ride it before then you'll not understand the difference but originally hideout to rocky valley was completely different and IMO tonnes better than it is now and we used to look forward to it. Now if we go, we link the two trails and completely cut out that bit because I dont feel its worth the climb up the last bit of it.

Sorry to repeat myself but will my car get locked in late on a summers evening?

Certainly used to be the case. Park up by the visitor centre / cafe.

Are us English allowed in yet?

Are us English allowed in yet?

Yeah, but you know - be careful, we've got it well under control for now in Wales.

No worries, after an afternoon on the beach I'll have a few pints in the pub then make my way across the bridge.  😉

Oooh this sounds interesting. I've only ridden Cwmcarn properly once last year and really enjoyed it. I might see if my mate fancies sacking off Cannock on Sunday and heading a bit further afield.

Can anyone send me a screenshot of the profile? Asking for my daughter....

I did Twrch yesterday - my first time on a mountain bike in 11 years! I'd forgotten what a tough climb felt like but the 20 minutes of hard work was worth it for what followed. I won't be leaving it quite so long before my next visit.

Were you on a Santa Cruz? If so I might have met you on the top of the climb as you join the fireroad. Was on a blue/black Trek and struggling with grip as the sandy grit was sticking to my tyres and making me spin out on all the rocks and roots!

20 minutes of hard work

You get to the top of the Twrch in 20 minutes???!!!!

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking after 11 years of not riding you can ride to the top in 20 minutes! The next thing that was on my mind was that after an 11 year break he may have then bought a Santa Cruz and added to the reputation that they already have round here.... do you drive a T5/6 too?

Have to admit, never really enjoyed Cwmcarn, both trails were too much tech on the up and the reward at the top was bland downhill bits, will go and see what the changes are like, but tend to struggle choosing the likes of Cwmcarn over FoD or the likes.

I just take the fireroad up Twrch now, done the climb enough times and I'd rather have more energy for the downs, because they definitely require a lot of it!

That was me Reluctantjumper. No T5 but I was driving my wifes Audi so I suppose I do fit the STW niche. Santa Cruz was bought second hand so I hope that's at least acceptable.

Yep, I’ve been riding Cwmcarn for about 15 years now, I can count on one hand the times I’ve ridden the full climb, I’ve never enjoyed it, I prefer to pedal up Forest Drive from the ranger station until the last tech climb bit.

I’ve got a route up Cafal too that skips most of the unpleasantness.

Means I can ride both trails, nah that’s an excuse, whatever the circumstances I ride up the road.

Working in Merthyr Tydfil next week, is there any time restrictions on the car park ?

TIA.

Cheers

At the moment it's free parking as all the machines are out of commission, no idea when that'll change. And yeah I haven't checked but they are meant to close the gates at 9pm.

At the moment it’s free parking as all the machines are out of commission, no idea when that’ll change. And yeah I haven’t checked but they are meant to close the gates at 9pm.

Thanks Tetrode

You can always park by the visitor centre as there's no gates to stop you but you have to go in and out via the back road of the village. Easy to spot on google, use it when I go for night rides.

I'll try not to tell "Salad Dodger!" across the car park if I spot you again 😁

Only jealous as you left me for dead powering up the fireroad.

Think of taking junior - 11 - for his first welsh trail centre ride as a day trip.   He may struggle on the climb up though, but it would be an experience for sure.

Sort of like that new Angels Posts bit, be interesting to see how it beds in. Still not convinced by that blue trail - I did it on the full suss and didn't enjoy it, which I assume was due to too much squish, but didn't have much fun on the hardtail either. It feels like it's trying to do too much in the space that's there and in order to hit/clear everything in the manner designed you'd have to be really, really good (and fit). If you clear one thing and stuff up the next bit then you lose all your speed - table, roller,table,step up, roller, table step up, small double, berm, table, table, roller, roller, roller. It just feels like a really odd choice of thing to do as a blue trail. If they'd opened it up a bit and used some more of the gradient then people can see what's coming and if there's more gradient then it gives the inexpert more chance of getting the speed required to clear stuff. As it is, it's a sort of bonkers mile long pump track that I think is going to cause accidents at some point as people horribly misjudge those repeat sections and go OTB. Maybe just me?

I'll do the Cafall climb now and then for fitness, but have long since abandoned the Twrch. A hasty cheats double using the cutouts and fireroads is great bang for buck and you do it more XC style or hit the downhills.

Did the Twrch with junior last night. Enjoyed the techy climb as ever and most of the descents. Took it pretty steady as it was his first trail centre outside of FoD.

That resurfaced section (above the last descent) was good but it is pretty hectic with so many dips and swoops. I couldn't help thinking with a third less dips you'd be able to launch off some quite nicely, but as it was that seemed like it would just land you on the up-slope of the next one. That could well be my lack of talent/familiarity in not seeing the double opportunities.

If anyone wants to see what the new trail is like before trying it out I've just put up a video of it (warning - very average rider content):

I rode both trails last week. Ridden Cwmcarn a lot as it's an hour away and I've always enjoyed it. First time up the Cafell climb in six months tho... I thought I was fit as I've done so much local riding in lockdown. Apparently not, it kicked my arse!

I'm a bit ambivalent on the new bit on Twrch. I've had a downer on the trail since the fire which took out one of my fav bits of singletrack. But I've always liked how natural the trails feel there. Maybe I just wasn't having a good day, but I didn't find angel post/achy fingers as engaging as I normally do.

Blue wasn't open when we went. I'm always amazed how hard work the two trails are if you ride them back to back. That includes using the Forest Drive to get half way up the Twrch. It's less climbing that I'd do on a weekend ride, but it feels more.

Anyway good to see some investment in there. We saw the uplift van parked up. Is that still running?

Cwmcarn has always been one of my favourite places, and I love the climb it's one of the best parts 🙂

I asked yesterday but I don't see my post - does anyone have a GPX of the blue? I need to check the profile isn't too extreme for my daughter.

Nice Vid, pretty much how I rode it first time. The berms are tighter than they look so you tend to over-turn them losing speed.

After a couple of goes I started to use some of those little slab jumps on the side straighten it up a bit which adds speed but, the continuous whoops act like a moguls on an MX bike, one of my mates who seems allergic to staying on the ground can double them but it's a high risk move when they're so close together.

We saw the uplift van parked up. Is that still running?

I think the guy leaves the uplift bus parked there when not in use, when the uplift is running I think he leaves his daily runner in that spot.

Yep, Darryl used to park the bus and trailers by the hut but they got vandalised once so he now leaves them further up the hill. Has said on his FaceBook that he doesn't plan to be open any time before November at the earliest as he's shielding to protect his wife.

We saw the uplift van parked up. Is that still running?

No.

In theory he could start again on the 23rd (at least BPW are) but the Driver / Owners Wife has a medical condition so they're shielding and he doesn't expect to be running any time soon.

I really feel for the Guy, I've gotten to known him a bit over the years, he's an endlessly positive / practical guy, the likes of BPW owe him a LOT from the simple stuff like how uplifts work (all day riders getting priority, single tickets and all that) and he was the only one I know of who was running a full-time uplift service year around which meant BPW had a ready made local customer base when they opened, pretty much the moment they did his business took a hammering. He went from 2 vans with 16 bikes on each running 5 days a week, to a single van with 8 bikes (I think) running 2 days a week.

Sorry if this is being dim but where is the PWCA trail on the video? I cant see anything on their website either.

It’s less climbing that I’d do on a weekend ride, but it feels more.

Yes this x 100. Was knackered last night and v dissapointed in the climbing/distance stats - as you say about half of all my recent riding locally.

Sorry if this is being dim but where is the PWCA trail on the video? I cant see anything on their website either.

It’s about 1-2km into the start of the trails, about 2/3rds of the way to the ranger station. there’s a new sign that shows the way. There’s bound to be a way into it from the road that avoids the slightly technical bits to it.

I asked yesterday but I don’t see my post – does anyone have a GPX of the blue?

No GPX but from a parents point of view, it’s a bit much for my 6 year old.

The climb is pretty easy, long but rarely steep and completely smooth.

The vid, as ever, doesn’t do the descent justice, the rollers / whoops or whatever are fine for kids, in fact the shorter wheel base would make them a bit easier, it’s the tight / steep berms what would put my kids off. Certainly harder than Blue Scar.

Thanks, I plan to visit next weekend so will check it out.

@molgrips - I don't have a gpx, but it the same initial climb as the Twrch and Cafall trails - when you get to the bit where the footpaths and the end bit of Cafall all cross over, the blue is a new exit from that junction. Hope that makes sense!

I loved the old knife edge rocky descent, the new flow trail is good and was great cos I was knackered and could barely hold-on. Twrch and Cafall are great trails for testing your fitness on and beating yourself up on too.

That first climb on cafall after the rangers post is properly sadistic though.

No GPX but from a parents point of view, it’s a bit much for my 6 year old.

The climb is pretty easy, long but rarely steep and completely smooth.

My 11yo is strong but very lazy, 9yo has much more commitment but less strength. That starting climb from the car park would be to much for either of them tbh.

Have they got rid of that stupid 'ploughed field' bit a few hundred yards from the start?

What ploughed field bit?

I know what Trailseeker means, yes it has gone. Was the result of some botched repairs and they have smoothed it out as part of putting in the blue.

You mean the bit where you went straight down the hillside instead of around a load of trail? Wait no that was 2/3 of the way round.

I love the way that the trees on Twrch are almost exactly the negative of the first time I went. Dense forest is now open hillside. Open hillside, dense forest.

Yes that stupid furrowed bit  near the start really made me wonder what the trail builders were thinking.

The weather forecast for South Wales looks decent tomorrow so I've booked a day off and will be heading to Cwmcarn.

Had a spare few hours this afternoon so went to try the new blue trail.

Wish I hadn't bothered. It starts with a steep climb for a blue after it peels off the main climb and then never seems to really head down. Just seems to be an endless climb interspersed with flat straights that you can't get any speed up on as they're covered in whoops that are so steeply ramped they force you to either pedal over them or try and double them, which you're not going to do! It didn't feel like I was going down until the last two corners, by which time you were about to rejoin the very end of the Twrch. Though it was just me not knowing the trail so went round again and it felt exactly the same. When I popped out back in the car park I asked the guy in the shop what people had been saying about the new blue and he said that most people thought it bad so it's no just me. He said a few people had complained about some bits sending you towards trees or the wrong way into a corner and I see what they mean, it's very hard to read the trail. I was really hoping that with Architrail building it and a decent amount of elevation to play with they would have created a great blue that suits everyone as Cwmcarn really needs something to help people progress towards the reds but it's completely missed the mark.

I also decided to nip round the road and do the new bits on the Twrch descents too as I was unsure about them first time through. Angel's Posts is very similar to the blue, sucks your speed and none of the turns seem to go the right way, it also has been built with near-wheel-sized holes that kill any rhythm you get into. Hopefully it'll weather back down to the original surface quickly! The Final Descent's flow is completely cut by the chicane over the tunnel for the blue. Used to be a proper lightspeed run but now it's two distinct parts that spoil it IMO.

It's a real shame as the place deserves to prosper and grow thanks to the recent funding it received but it looks like it's been mostly wasted on substandard trail building, poorly thought out repairs, electric charging posts in the car park and building seemingly endless drystone walls. I won't blame Architrail for it as I have a feeling it's a lot to do with Caerphilly County Council not knowing what they're doing and not consulting the users as usual.

Like I said earlier, a real shame.

Went to Cwmcarn for the first time since lockdown today.

Did the blue, then Cafell with Pedalhounds, then the Twrch, then finished with another lap of the blue. That last one was possibly a step to far as I was just about avoiding cramp.

The new blue is hilarious - it’s a proper berm / roller fest and loads of opportunities to double stuff up. Loved it for a bit of a play.

Can’t say I noticed many changes on the Twrch - the Rocky section has been resurfaced but it’s got weirdly spaced almost rollers. Actually ended up just as brutal on your legs the way it’s laid out. One change where it goes over the blue which meant a heavy bit of braking to get round the unexpected change.

Think Cwmcarn is my favourite trail centr still - although Brechfa is a very close 2nd