Cwmdown is closing down.

We were supposed to be there today but it was cancelled due to weather. He mentioned the Jan end scenario.

Will be interesting to see if they have plans in place for future

I always thought they were going to struggle when up against much more efficient setups.
The uplift took ages to get to the top due to how the roads were laid out

Always wondered how these things would fair what with the proliferation of ebikes (me included)
I've not done an uplift day for a couple of years now and used to do them fairly regularly.

I'd like to go to Dyfi actually but wouldn't be ideal on the eeb.

Cwmcarn is great on an eeb.

Hope Daryl does OK. He's a really nice bloke. Met him when he first started the uplift as we used to go there just pushing up and doing our own uplift up the forest drive.

Proper gutted. Recently bought a DH bike again, taking early retirement next year with the intention of loads of uplift days and have just lost revs now cwmcarn.
Add Aston hill into the mix of lost venues and it's been a terrible few years.
Tbh I dont know how okeford uplift are still going with the poor turnout they get.
Be a great business for someone who just needs a trickle of money coming in(ie me!) But I wonder if the council or the forestry are making things harder for him.
Rip cwmdown anyway. Every uplift day there was excellent.

Really sad to hear this, as people have said Darrel is a really nice guy and has worked hard over the years.

I guess the companies will have to ask 'why' and 'what can we do about it'

What was Cwmdowns reason, you'd assume not enough income stream, but that begs the question, what could Cwmcarn have done about it, if anything. More trails, better facilities, bigger infrastructure, sticking in something 'different' like a Go Ape.

All of the smaller places are going to have to ask themselves the questions really in coming years. Will Cwmcarn still continue but as is implied, be more an E-bike place than an uplift place ?

I was chatting with a mate about it a few Sats ago at FoD and he was astounded by the number of kids there for Little Fodders. He's a Sherwood Pines local and they don't have that at all... but surely that's a huge income stream with say 50 kids and parents hitting the car-park, cafe and shop on a Sat ? (likely closer to 100 i think). Maybe the places that are not doing quite as well need to consider things like this, like the "what can we do"

A damn shame. Didnt get there as often as I should.
Really enjoyed the "enduro trails" down to the canal; which they (Risca-mtb i think) have put a lot of effort into, they are formalised, signed and everything.
Without an ebike though, they are going to be hard work to get a decent ride in.

Daz is a lovely bloke, gone a few times on my own, sat in the front of the van and chatted to him.

From the FB page;

Also, in other news… Our contract only runs until end of Jan 2023, beyond that I’m not sure if we will still be running. Hopefully it will be renewed, but it’s not guaranteed at the moment.

It's possible that someone else will be doing it instead.

okeford uplift are still going with the poor turnout they get.

Despite being local only went there for the first time this summer and yeah very quiet. For the quality of trails they have I was supprised. Very different to windhill, better imo, definitely steeper and more challenging but yet super quiet. Nee to make sure I go more this summer.

I've still never got round to visiting.

Is the Cwmcarm bike stuff good, or it the uplift mainly used for Risca?
How long is Risca pedal up to ride there without uplift?

I could and did, ride the single, (with a few variations) unpronounceable DH track all day.
All the uplifters were riding the track every time I went. The risca stuff seems to attract the pedalup rider, especially ebikes.

An ebike can beat the bus up for sure. But it's a boring paved road to the top against the traffic flow.
Certainly no-one on a DH bike will be pushing up there now.
Oh well, glad I have an ebike as well, but nothing beats the fun of a DH bike.

Will Cwmcarn still continue but as is implied, be more an E-bike place than an uplift place ?

Cwmcarn is rammed every weekend, like most other good trail centres. You also have the benefit of the unmarked stuff both along the route and in the surrounding valleys

The Risca trails finish a couple of miles from the uplift pickup IIRC, so I guess if you were booked on for a day you might ride them once or twice.

As others have said, eebs are really popular for riding the Risca Bike Park stuff because the climbs are so bloody steep.

Cwmcarn is rammed every weekend, like most other good trail centres. You also have the benefit of the unmarked stuff both along the route and in the surrounding valleys

Which begs the question then... why is the uplift financially non-viable ?

post deleted - didn't read thread title properly!

I’ve used the uplift once recently and enjoyed it. I’m not a downhiller so I wasn’t up for riding the same downhill run all day - we used the uplift to get in some of the Risca stuff as well. You can ride the top half of the main off piste at Risca then bomb round on the middle fire road and drop down to the car park either on the last bit of the official DH trail or the final Twrch descent. To do a full off piste run right down to the canal you skip an uplift as it takes 15-20 mins to pedal back round to the trail centre car park.

Risca is a bit brutal without an ebike but it’s do-able. Ivw sessioned it for a few hours under my own power but it was definitely better with some uplift.

Used to be a regular on there during my younger, braver DH days

Now I have a nipper in tow we love an uplift day but we'd be looking at the 417 project, the FOD or BPW as they have more of a variety of intermediate trails for a keen 10 year old.

The hill @ Cwmcarn is awesome and a blue/red descent, starting close to the DH run, would be a huge draw for older riders and those with nippers, it's not just the technical challenge it's feeling bad at holding up all the gnarr local types.

Never rode it, still saddens me that were losing another spot though, as always feel for the crew who work there, the investment in these places goes beyond financial and that often hurts more.

The Risca trails finish a couple of miles from the uplift pickup IIRC, so I guess if you were booked on for a day you might ride them once or twice.

It is possible to get laps in. There's no constraint on the last run before lunch, and the last run of the day. I normally take a warm up of just taking the xc red down for the first run. all the other runs are a bit tight for time.

You need to be off the bus and going straight away. The bus will be there and loading as you get back. You need to do top to bottom runs with out stopping, ride a decent but (safe and respectable pace) along the canal, and then hard up the road to the carpark.
I normally miss one bus due to incompetence, a decent rider should be able to do every run.

Which begs the question then… why is the uplift financially non-viable ?

There's only so much you can charge for a day in a bus doing essentially one track compared to places like BPW, 417, FOD etc. Natural Resources Wales have been very reluctant to spend any money on Cwmcarn, let alone the DH part as they get no return from it (the visitor centre and car park are owned by Caerphilly Council). Before BPW he had two buses on the weekends and holidays and it was tough to get spaces at short notice. The last few years (ignoring the lockdowns) the uplift basically got forgotten by riders with Darrell having to work the socials quite hard sometimes to get a full bus booked so he could run.

The place has essentially fallen behind despite plenty of effort in getting things improved by the businesses and local riders.

Way I see it is its up to the industry to step up more generally and make these things work. They're the lifeblood of the sport and we can't be relying on a few bigger sites, we need more local resources where it matters to local riders. And while I am grateful to those companies that are subbing trail builds/supporting repairs, it doesn't create the other infrastructure that needs to go around that for a more diverse offering, nor does it make it sustainable long term.

I love Cwmcarn, shame the uplift is closing. Maybe it could get a second lease of life sometime soon though, never say never.

The spot will still be there but I wonder how well used it’ll be without the bus - except by people with e-bikes. But then if you have an e-bike you’re probably more likely to ride the off piste I reckon.

I think the thing about Cwmcarn vs FOD is there isn’t a nice pathway through easy blue trails to the more difficult stuff for kids - the hills are big and so pedalling up it is hard work. Even the hill for the blue is fairly punchy. At FOD the blue trail is an easier pedal and you have all the skills area / pump track etc.

When I was there a couple of weeks ago he mentioned an ongoing court case between the council (who own the land below the sleeper drop off the fire road) and someone who suffered life changing injuries as a result of a lack of maintenance… I suspect this has as much to do with that as a lack of financial viability

It was an uplift for essentially 1 track. Other uplifts locally give much better riding options. I take my kids to bpw as it caters for them and cwmcarn doesn't. On my own I'll go somewhere with more variety.

However with an eeb I'll go as you can get to more

We were going to do Cwmcarn as part of a trip where we did BPW on the friday, a Brecon beacons ride the satruday and we were going to Cwmcarn on the sunday, but for us who travel from East Anglia to ride proper trails 5-6 times a year, we were put off knowing the uplift had a single DH trail, none of us ride e-bikes, but somewhere like BPW you can start on the Blues (some of which are my favourite trails) and as you get your eye back in, move onto red/ black as confidence comes back. It is difficult to launch yourself straight back onto a full on DH track.

What was clear going to BPW was that very few people we spoke to on the buses were local, that's not to say some weren't, more that people had travelled from all over to ride there, and it was clear that despite there being loads of people at the top, as soon as you disappear off down your chosen trails, you never felt pressured to get out of way, and because of the diversity they never seemed to get too busy, and it was clear that all those people that had travelled from all round country, must be spending money at pubs, accommodation, bike shops etc, strange that local councils seem blind sometimes to what money these places can bring when done well.

Do you think that is Cwmcarn had a few blue/ red trails also that it would be more of a go-er?

Do you think that is Cwmcarn had a few blue/ red trails also that it would be more of a go-er?

It's a reasonable assumption to me. I was chatting with my lad and asking the same thing last night.

Only been the once on the uplift because I got a bit bored of just riding the same track all day. I agree with others that th game has moved on and it needs more than 1 track to keep the customers coming back. Maybe finding a way of linking in with the off piste stuff so you can get back to the pick up point quickly might work as a solution

Was there not some complication with using the uplift for Risca stuff, a long-term closed road or something?

Sad about this but, at the same time I'm part of the problem, every time we go down there I ride BPW, BMCC and the FOD. We always talk about Cwmcarn but in the end a second day at the FOD always wins. It just gets edged out, the assorted factors of uplift speed, access and variety of the trails etc just doesn't quite work for it.

So I'm sorry that they're closing but tbf we'll go back to south-wales-ish in 2023 and we probably wouldn't ride Cwymcarn.

It is a shame but I cant say I am surprised, especially being so close to BPW. They just cant complete with the number and variety of trails.